<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?> <feed xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom" xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"> <title>Main</title> <link rel="self" href="http://localhost/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/10303" /> <subtitle /> <id>http://localhost/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/10303</id> <updated>2014-10-19T00:23:53Z</updated> <dc:date>2014-10-19T00:23:53Z</dc:date> <entry> <title>DhO Management and Moderators 1.3</title> <link rel="alternate" href="http://localhost/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/10303/DhO+Management+and+Moderators" /> <author> <name>Daniel M. Ingram</name> </author> <id>http://localhost/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/10303/DhO+Management+and+Moderators</id> <updated>2014-10-01T21:51:37Z</updated> <published>2014-10-01T21:51:37Z</published> <summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Currently, the DhO is run by the following people: &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Owner, Founder and Administrator: Daniel M. Ingram. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Moderators: &lt;/p&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;Florian (aka Monkey Mind)&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Claudiu (aka Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Nikolai&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Katy&lt;br/&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Jen&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;p&gt;If you have any questions about anything, contact Daniel Ingram or the moderator in question (Messages tab is a good place for this). &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;This list update last on November 28th, 2011. &lt;/p&gt;</summary> <dc:creator>Daniel M. Ingram</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-01T21:51:37Z</dc:date> </entry> <entry> <title>MCTB 3. The Three Characteristics 1.6</title> <link rel="alternate" href="http://localhost/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/10303/MCTB+3.+The+Three+Characteristics" /> <author> <name>heath</name> </author> <id>http://localhost/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/10303/MCTB+3.+The+Three+Characteristics</id> <updated>2014-05-27T18:46:26Z</updated> <published>2014-05-27T18:46:26Z</published> <summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The Three Characteristics of impermanence, unsatisfactoriness and egolessness or no-self become predominant, which is good, as these are the fundamental basis for insight. Here it begins to become quite clear that these intentions and actions, sensations and the knowledge of them, and all of the constituents of this experience are quickly arising and passing, somewhat jarring, and not particularly in our control or us. Further, as these sensations are all observed, including the crude mental impression that follows them (“consciousness”), the whole of the mind and body process is seen to be not a separate self. It is merely a part of the interdependent world.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;These characteristics become clearer and clearer, as well as faster and faster, as the meditator diligently pays careful attention to exactly what is happening at each moment. For those doing noting practice, somewhere around here your speed and precision may begin to get so fast that you cannot note every sensation you experience. Move to more general noting, mono-syllabic noting (such as “beep” for each sensation experienced regardless of what it was), or drop the noting entirely and stay with noticing bare sensation come and go. At this stage, practice begins to really take off despite the fact that this stage tends to be fairly unpleasant.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;This unpleasantness tends to be mostly physical, though this stage can also cause numerous dark feelings and a sense of wanting to renounce the world and practice. Occasionally, the early part of this stage can cause people to feel vulnerable, raw, and irritable to a small or large degree in the ways that a migraine headache or a bad case of PMS can. I have occasionally been laid out on a couch for hours by this aspect of this stage, holding my head and just wishing that these early stages didn’t sometimes involve so much pain and anguish.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;There may be odd bodily twistings, obsession with posture, and painful tensions or strange other sensations, particularly in the back, neck, jaw and shoulders. These tensions may persist when not meditating and be quite irritating and even debilitating. The rhomboid and trapezius muscles are the most common offenders. It is common to try to sit with good posture and then find one’s body twisting into some odd and painful position. You straighten out, and soon enough it does it again. That’s a very Three Characteristics sort of pattern. People sometimes describe these feelings as some powerful energy that is blocked and seems wants to get out or move through.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Feelings of heat and sensations like those of a fever may sometimes accompany this stage. One’s neck and back may become very stiff, either on one side or both sides. The right and left sides of one’s body may feel quite different from each other sometimes. The easiest way to get these unpleasant physical manifestations to go away is to keep investigating the Three Characteristics, either of them or of whatever primary object you have chosen. These are common early retreat experiences, particularly in the first few days.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Fighting them or trying other methods (back rubs, etc.) seems to either help only a little, work only temporarily, or sometimes make them even worse, though sometimes hatha yoga and related practices done with a high degree of awareness can be helpful. This is a common time for people to go to health practitioners of various kinds, from orthopedists and dentists to chiropractors and body workers. For example, I had a wisdom tooth removed during one pass through this stage because I thought it was throwing my jaw out of alignment, and perhaps it was, but this was clearly exacerbated by this stage of practice.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Even if these unpleasant physical manifestations do slack off for a bit, they are likely to keep coming back until one’s insight is sufficient to progress beyond this part of this stage. Thus, should one find such things interfering with one’s life, I recommend continued precise and accepting practice. This is a phase of practice when strong effort and very quick investigation really pay off.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Certain traditions may look at such physical manifestations as “energy imbalances” or in some other negative light, and I can see where they are coming from, but I find those perspectives limiting. Rather, I see this stage in its broader context as just one more phase of practice. Others may invent very strange stories to explain these experiences. A friend of mine ran into this ñana on retreat, found it very unpleasant, stopped practicing and began to spin out all sorts of fantastic stories in her head about how the poor fellow sitting next to her was very angry and how it was making her tense. This didn’t help whatsoever, and she got stuck there. I have learned to welcome these odd manifestations as clearly recognizable markers of progress on the path. They are clear objects for practice and reassure me that I am on the right track. Unfortunately, this is a hard lesson to teach others. True, these manifestations can suck, but being able to appreciate what is happening in the face of the difficult stages is important, and becomes much more important later on.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;As the mind gains speed at really seeing each of the sensations of the mind and body come and go, the jerkiness from cause and effect can get quite rapid and pronounced. These physical movements and spasms seem to help break up the physical tension that may sometimes accompany this stage, and are a sign of progress. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;MCTB 4. The Arising and Passing Away&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/p&gt;</summary> <dc:creator>heath</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-05-27T18:46:26Z</dc:date> </entry> <entry> <title>FrontPage 16.6</title> <link rel="alternate" href="http://localhost/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/10303/FrontPage" /> <author> <name>Daniel M. Ingram</name> </author> <id>http://localhost/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/10303/FrontPage</id> <updated>2014-05-11T20:21:04Z</updated> <published>2014-05-11T20:21:04Z</published> <summary type="html">&lt;h2 id="section-FrontPage-Welcome+to+the+DhO+Dharma+Wiki"&gt; Welcome to the DhO Dharma Wiki &lt;a class="hashlink" href="#section-FrontPage-Welcome+to+the+DhO+Dharma+Wiki"&gt;#&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h2&gt;&lt;p&gt;The DhO Dharma Wiki is a place where one can find detailed information regarding various meditative practices--including what they are, how to do them, and what they lead to. Below you&amp;#039;ll find an extensive list of various meditative techniques and maps of the territory that these practices, if done correctly, will lead to. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;A few things worth knowing about the wiki: &lt;/p&gt;&lt;ol&gt;&lt;li&gt; Things in red are links that haven&amp;#039;t yet had their pages create: if you want to have a hand in creating them, see the next point:&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; Authorship is restricted. If you want to be a &lt;a href=""&gt;Wiki Author&lt;/a&gt;, let a &lt;a href=""&gt;Wiki Moderator&lt;/a&gt; or &lt;a href=""&gt;DhO Administrator&lt;/a&gt; know. We want to keep this of high quality. &lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; If you make an entry about anything that is anything other than straight-up standard dogma or doctrine, you must state that this your take on this by the following method: you will place your full, real name before your addition to the content so that it is labeled as your take on the topic so that there is no ambiguity about who the author of that section of entry is.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; As this will be a wiki with explicit authorship, adding an entry to the wiki is explicitly a claim to direct, personal understanding and attainment of whatever you are saying unless you explicitly label it as dogma, doctrine, theory or hearsay, and then you must give the reference for that or state that you don&amp;#039;t know the reference if that is the case. Minimize the latter when possible except as something to build on or react to.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; Controversy in this is inevitable and expected. This is to be a place where the debates, complexities, ambiguities and convergences can all be seen as they are as much as possible. Rather than an attempt to say, &amp;#034;This is absolutely how it is, end of story&amp;#034;, this wiki is an attempt to say, &amp;#034;This is these peoples&amp;#039; takes on the thing based on their own experience and experiments,&amp;#034; which hopefully will lead to something broad, realistic, practical, applicable, and experienced-based as much as possible that has more depth than what is typically possible based on one author or tradition or small, sectarian group.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; The wiki will attempt to explore and promote personal practice, direct understanding and attainment whenever possible. All entries should attempt to keep this focus at the forefront whenever possible or say how this relates to something practical and useful that will make people&amp;#039;s actual lives and this world somehow better.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ol&gt;&lt;div class="toc"&gt;&lt;div class="collapsebox"&gt;&lt;h4&gt;Table of Contents&amp;nbsp;&lt;a class="toc-trigger" href="javascript:;"&gt;[-]&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h4&gt;&lt;div class="toc-index"&gt;&lt;ol&gt;&lt;li class="toc-level-1"&gt;&lt;a class="wikipage" href="#section-FrontPage-Welcome+to+the+DhO+Dharma+Wiki"&gt; Welcome to the DhO Dharma Wiki &lt;/a&gt;&lt;ol&gt;&lt;li class="toc-level-2"&gt;&lt;a class="wikipage" href="#section-FrontPage-DhO+Basics"&gt; DhO Basics &lt;/a&gt;&lt;ol&gt;&lt;/ol&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="toc-level-2"&gt;&lt;a class="wikipage" href="#section-FrontPage-DhO+Dictionary"&gt; DhO Dictionary &lt;/a&gt;&lt;ol&gt;&lt;/ol&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="toc-level-2"&gt;&lt;a class="wikipage" href="#section-FrontPage-Core+Principles"&gt; Core Principles &lt;/a&gt;&lt;ol&gt;&lt;/ol&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="toc-level-2"&gt;&lt;a class="wikipage" href="#section-FrontPage-The+Best+of+the+DhO"&gt; The Best of the DhO &lt;/a&gt;&lt;ol&gt;&lt;/ol&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="toc-level-2"&gt;&lt;a class="wikipage" href="#section-FrontPage-Types+of+Meditation"&gt; Types of Meditation &lt;/a&gt;&lt;ol&gt;&lt;li class="toc-level-3"&gt;&lt;a class="wikipage" href="#section-FrontPage-Concentration+Techniques"&gt; Concentration Techniques &lt;/a&gt;&lt;ol&gt;&lt;/ol&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="toc-level-3"&gt;&lt;a class="wikipage" href="#section-FrontPage-Insight+Techniques"&gt; Insight Techniques &lt;/a&gt;&lt;ol&gt;&lt;/ol&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="toc-level-3"&gt;&lt;a class="wikipage" href="#section-FrontPage-Energy-oriented+Practices"&gt; Energy-oriented Practices &lt;/a&gt;&lt;ol&gt;&lt;/ol&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="toc-level-3"&gt;&lt;a class="wikipage" href="#section-FrontPage-Non-Dual/Immediate+Practices"&gt; Non-Dual/Immediate Practices &lt;/a&gt;&lt;ol&gt;&lt;/ol&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="toc-level-3"&gt;&lt;a class="wikipage" href="#section-FrontPage-Actualism"&gt; Actualism &lt;/a&gt;&lt;ol&gt;&lt;/ol&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ol&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="toc-level-2"&gt;&lt;a class="wikipage" href="#section-FrontPage-The+Maps+of+Meditation"&gt; The Maps of Meditation &lt;/a&gt;&lt;ol&gt;&lt;/ol&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="toc-level-2"&gt;&lt;a class="wikipage" href="#section-FrontPage-Traditions+and+Theory"&gt; Traditions and Theory &lt;/a&gt;&lt;ol&gt;&lt;/ol&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="toc-level-2"&gt;&lt;a class="wikipage" href="#section-FrontPage-\\"&gt; \\ &lt;/a&gt;&lt;ol&gt;&lt;/ol&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="toc-level-2"&gt;&lt;a class="wikipage" href="#section-FrontPage-The+Powers"&gt; The Powers &lt;/a&gt;&lt;ol&gt;&lt;/ol&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="toc-level-2"&gt;&lt;a class="wikipage" href="#section-FrontPage-eBooks+and+Resources"&gt; eBooks and Resources &lt;/a&gt;&lt;ol&gt;&lt;/ol&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="toc-level-2"&gt;&lt;a class="wikipage" href="#section-FrontPage-Retreat+Centers+and+Places+to+Practice"&gt; Retreat Centers and Places to Practice &lt;/a&gt;&lt;ol&gt;&lt;/ol&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ol&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ol&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;hr/&gt;&lt;h3 id="section-FrontPage-DhO+Basics"&gt; DhO Basics &lt;a class="hashlink" href="#section-FrontPage-DhO+Basics"&gt;#&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h3&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;The History of the DhO&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;The Basics of the DhO&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;DhO Management and Moderators&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Some &lt;a href=""&gt;Goals for the DhO&lt;/a&gt;: the founder&amp;#039;s vision of what this place can be.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;Visions of What Makes for a Good Meditation Tradition&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;h3 id="section-FrontPage-DhO+Dictionary"&gt; DhO Dictionary &lt;a class="hashlink" href="#section-FrontPage-DhO+Dictionary"&gt;#&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h3&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;DhO Dictionary&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;DhO Acronyms&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;h3 id="section-FrontPage-Core+Principles"&gt; Core Principles &lt;a class="hashlink" href="#section-FrontPage-Core+Principles"&gt;#&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h3&gt;&lt;p&gt;Here are some of the most core principles and teachings that are mentioned on this site. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;Theravada Core Principles&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;Mahayana Core Principles&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;h3 id="section-FrontPage-The+Best+of+the+DhO"&gt; The Best of the DhO &lt;a class="hashlink" href="#section-FrontPage-The+Best+of+the+DhO"&gt;#&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h3&gt;&lt;p&gt;Here you can find links to some of the &lt;a href=""&gt;Best of the DhO&lt;/a&gt;. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;h3 id="section-FrontPage-Types+of+Meditation"&gt; Types of Meditation &lt;a class="hashlink" href="#section-FrontPage-Types+of+Meditation"&gt;#&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h3&gt;&lt;p&gt;Here is a list of some of the different meditative techniques that are discussed on this site, along with related instructions. Many more may be found if you look around. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;h4 id="section-FrontPage-Concentration+Techniques"&gt; Concentration Techniques &lt;a class="hashlink" href="#section-FrontPage-Concentration+Techniques"&gt;#&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h4&gt;&lt;p&gt;Concentration techniques (sometimes called &lt;a href=""&gt;samatha&lt;/a&gt; practices) include those techniques which lead to a stabilization of attention on a particular object, and then often the development of more subtle stages of &lt;a href=""&gt;concentration&lt;/a&gt;, called the &lt;a href=""&gt;samatha jhanas&lt;/a&gt;. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt; Mindfulness of Breath&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt; Kasina Meditation&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;Mantras&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;h4 id="section-FrontPage-Insight+Techniques"&gt; Insight Techniques &lt;a class="hashlink" href="#section-FrontPage-Insight+Techniques"&gt;#&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h4&gt;&lt;p&gt;Insight techniques (sometimes called &lt;a href=""&gt;Vipassana&lt;/a&gt; practices) are more devoted to momentary concentration, noticing object after object, and tend to be more dedicated to promoting direct insights into the fundamental nature of phenomena, awareness and the like than anything else. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt; Mahasi Noting&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;Body scanning&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;Choiceless Awareness&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;Dzogchen&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;Zazen&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;Koans&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;h4 id="section-FrontPage-Energy-oriented+Practices"&gt; Energy-oriented Practices &lt;a class="hashlink" href="#section-FrontPage-Energy-oriented+Practices"&gt;#&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h4&gt;&lt;p&gt;Energy practices is a broad category for various practices that tend to relate to discovering, cultivating and exploring our energetic systems. They may promote insight and tranquility and have other healthful effects and may be derived from a number of traditions. There is a lot of interest here around how these practices may augment or be augmented by other practices here. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;Energy Practices Portal&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;h4 id="section-FrontPage-Non-Dual/Immediate+Practices"&gt; Non-Dual/Immediate Practices &lt;a class="hashlink" href="#section-FrontPage-Non-Dual/Immediate+Practices"&gt;#&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h4&gt;&lt;p&gt;There are various practices and emphases that have a much less goal-oriented and object-oriented emphasis and a much more emphasis on this being it and on taking on Awareness or the Self or some other conceptualization of the Subject as the focus of practice. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;h4 id="section-FrontPage-Actualism"&gt; Actualism &lt;a class="hashlink" href="#section-FrontPage-Actualism"&gt;#&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h4&gt;&lt;p&gt;As there has been a lot of interest lately in Actual Freedom (AF for short), there is now a wiki section dedicated to its terms, practices, emphases, concepts, links, etc. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;Actualism&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;h3 id="section-FrontPage-The+Maps+of+Meditation"&gt; The Maps of Meditation &lt;a class="hashlink" href="#section-FrontPage-The+Maps+of+Meditation"&gt;#&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h3&gt;&lt;p&gt;There are many maps used to describe the progress of meditation. Below you&amp;#039;ll find a list of many of these various maps. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Theravada Maps:&lt;/strong&gt; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt; The Samatha Jhanas&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;The Progress of Insight&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;Advanced Jhana Classification&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt; The Vipassana Jhanas&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;The Four Path Model&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;The Simple Model&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Tibetan Maps:&lt;/strong&gt; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt; The Tibetan Five Path Model&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt; The Tibetan Bhumi Model&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Zen Maps:&lt;/strong&gt; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;Tozan&amp;#039;s Five Ranks&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt; The Zen Oxherding Pictures&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Christian Maps:&lt;/strong&gt; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt; The Ladder of Love&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;Taoist Maps&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/strong&gt; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;h3 id="section-FrontPage-Traditions+and+Theory"&gt; Traditions and Theory &lt;a class="hashlink" href="#section-FrontPage-Traditions+and+Theory"&gt;#&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h3&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;Chuck&amp;#039;s Corner: Early Buddhism&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;h3 id="section-FrontPage-\\"&gt; \\ &lt;a class="hashlink" href="#section-FrontPage-\\"&gt;#&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h3&gt;&lt;h3 id="section-FrontPage-The+Powers"&gt; The Powers &lt;a class="hashlink" href="#section-FrontPage-The+Powers"&gt;#&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h3&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;Magick and the Brahma Viharas&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;hr/&gt;&lt;h3 id="section-FrontPage-eBooks+and+Resources"&gt; eBooks and Resources &lt;a class="hashlink" href="#section-FrontPage-eBooks+and+Resources"&gt;#&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h3&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;Many of the English translations of the works of Mahasi Sayadaw can be found &lt;a href="http://www.aimwell.org/mahasi.html "&gt; here&lt;/a&gt;. &lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;One of the foundation texts that forms a basis for the spirit and some of the technology and concepts of the DhO is this book, and as such is highly recommended:&lt;a href=""&gt; Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha, an Unusually Hardcore Dharma Book, by Daniel Ingram, EXPANDED VERSION: meaning, that some DhO members have made additional links, comments, etc.&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt; Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha in Spanish, translated by Andrés Coca Lopez&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt; Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha in Swedish, translated by Ingrid Wennerhag&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt; Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha in German, translated by Bernhard Payr and Michael Zeh&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=M2S-7-lWzHIC&amp;amp;pg=PA67&amp;amp;lpg=PA67&amp;amp;dq=practical+insight+meditation+by+mahasi+sayadaw&amp;amp;source=bl&amp;amp;ots=Duo6ahyWCH&amp;amp;sig=GLdxY-VSmWCfC3GUupB5ludmj0o&amp;amp;hl=en&amp;amp;ei=uZW4Spv4IsSFtgfAmZj3Dg&amp;amp;sa=X&amp;amp;oi=book_result&amp;amp;ct=result&amp;amp;resnum=1#v=onepage&amp;amp;q=&amp;amp;f=false "&gt; Practical Insight Meditation, by Mahasi Sayadaw&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=YnedD2Jj3IIC&amp;amp;printsec=frontcover&amp;amp;dq=the+progress+of+insight#v=onepage&amp;amp;q=&amp;amp;f=false "&gt; The Progress of Insight, by Mahasi Sayadaw&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;A Reformed Slacker&amp;#039;s Guide to Stream-Entry&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/nanamoli/PathofPurification2011.pdf"&gt;The Visuddhimagga (Path of Purification) in .pdf, at long last!, with many thanks to Access to Insight&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.scribd.com/doc/32131566/The-Path-of-Freedom-Vimuttimagga"&gt;The Vimuttimagga (Path of Freedom) at scribd: like the Visuddhimagga but so much more accessible.&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;h3 id="section-FrontPage-Retreat+Centers+and+Places+to+Practice"&gt; Retreat Centers and Places to Practice &lt;a class="hashlink" href="#section-FrontPage-Retreat+Centers+and+Places+to+Practice"&gt;#&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h3&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;Retreat Center Review Template&lt;/a&gt; is the suggested format for submitting a review: if you want to review a retreat center: copy the template, fill it out, and post it on the discussion forum, from which it can be commented upon and then added to the Wiki if useful.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;The Forest Refuge&lt;/a&gt; in Barre, MA, USA&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;The Insight Meditation Society&lt;/a&gt; in Barre, MA, USA&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;Spirit Rock Meditation Center&lt;/a&gt; in CA, USA&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;MBMC&lt;/a&gt; Malaysian Buddhist Meditation Centre in Penang, Malaysia&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;Southern Dharma Retreat Center&lt;/a&gt; in Host Springs, NC, USA&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;Cambridge Insight Meditation Center&lt;/a&gt; in Cambridge, MA, USA&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;S N Goenka Centers&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;Adyashanti at Asilomar retreat Center&lt;/a&gt; in Pacific Grove, CA, USA&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;Chom Tong Insight Meditation Center&lt;/a&gt; in Chaing Mai, Thailand&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;Tathagata Meditation Center&lt;/a&gt; in San Jose, CA, USA&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;Garrison Institute&lt;/a&gt; in Garrison, NY, USA&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;Bhavana Society Forest Monastery and Retreat Center&lt;/a&gt; in WV, USA&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;Cloud Mountain Retreat Center&lt;/a&gt; in Castle Rock, WA, USA&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;Dhamma Sukha Meditation Center&lt;/a&gt; in Missouri, USA&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;Dhammacari Vipassana Meditatioszentrum&lt;/a&gt; in Germany&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;Lumbini Panditarama Meditation Centre&lt;/a&gt; in Lumbini, Nepal&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;Muttodaya Forest Monastery&lt;/a&gt; in Germany&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;Satipanya Budhist Retreat&lt;/a&gt; in Shropshire, UK&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;</summary> <dc:creator>Daniel M. Ingram</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-05-11T20:21:04Z</dc:date> </entry> <entry> <title>Taoist Maps 1.2</title> <link rel="alternate" href="http://localhost/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/10303/Taoist+Maps" /> <author> <name>Bruno Loff</name> </author> <id>http://localhost/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/10303/Taoist+Maps</id> <updated>2014-05-04T20:54:03Z</updated> <published>2014-05-04T20:54:03Z</published> <summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;Paulo P on the Taoist Map of Bruce Frantzis&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/p&gt;</summary> <dc:creator>Bruno Loff</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-05-04T20:54:03Z</dc:date> </entry> <entry> <title>Advanced Jhana Classification 1.6 (minor-edit)</title> <link rel="alternate" href="http://localhost/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/10303/Advanced+Jhana+Classification" /> <author> <name>Daniel M. Ingram</name> </author> <id>http://localhost/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/10303/Advanced+Jhana+Classification</id> <updated>2014-03-17T23:21:16Z</updated> <published>2014-03-17T23:21:16Z</published> <summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Advanced Jhana Classification, by Daniel M. Ingram &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Here is a proposed method of classifying the jhanas that is more sophisticated and flexible than the original simple classification system found in the Pali texts and commentaries. It is basically the system I use in my head, and yet I realized that I haven&amp;#039;t written it down anywhere in quite this fashion. I hope that one day something like this system is converted to something more secular, such that it can serve as a technical shorthand or language for discussing meditative attainments in general. Until then, here goes with the serious geekery: &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;The basic building blocks of the system are the jhanas, which briefly noted are as follows: &lt;/p&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;1. First Jhana: involved narrow attention, sustained effort&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;2. Second Jhana: involved slightly wider attention, more motion of objects, and is significantly more effortless&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;3. Third Jhana: involves wider field of attention with center of attention out of phase, and has distinct phase problems in general&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;4: Fourth Jhana: involved more naturally spacious attention and has a much more balanced sort of attention than the previous ones&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;5: Boundless Space: a byproduct of noticing the spacious aspect of the 4th jhana&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;6. Boundless Consciousness: a byproduct of noticing the conscious aspect of the 5th jhana&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;7. Nothingness: like the 3rd jhana version of the formless realms in that it is like Boundless Space except that the phase of attention is tuned to anything but that and also not to anything else, so it notices that there is nothing there in that space, sort of like the advanced phase problem version of 3rd jhana taken to an extreme&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;8. Neither Perception Nor Yet Non-Perception: what happens when you detune even from the already very strangely off-tuned 7th jhana and don&amp;#039;t even notice that: the pinnacle of phase out-ed-ness without even attention to that&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;p&gt;Add to this the notion that these 8 jhanas can fall on a continuum from hard to soft, meaning that you can be really, really into the jhana or in a softer, less absolute version of that same territory that is still different from what I will loosely call &amp;#034;ordinary&amp;#034; consciousness, whatever that is, and yet not in it as hard as is possible. This falls into shades of grey and may often involve transitioning from one way of perceiving things to the other. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Add to this that these 8 hard or soft jhanas can also be more analog or digital, more smooth or vibratory/fluxy, and thus there is an axis of development that relates to how samatha or how vipassana they are, how concentration heavy or how insight heavy, how seemingly stable vs how discontinuously they are perceived. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Add to this the notion that you can actually be in a sub-jhana aspect of each of those 8 jhanas, such that you could be in the 4th subjhana of 3rd jhana, for instance, or the 8th subjhana aspect of 1st jhana, just to take it to extremes, which can easily occur in those with strong concentration. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Add to this the notion that you can actually split this finer, into sub-subjhanas, meaning, for instance, that you could be in the 7th subsubjhana of the 3rd subjhana of the 4th jhana, just to make it interesting, or the 4th subsubjhana of the 1st subjhana of the 3rd jhana, which just happens to be Dissolution, which is an insight stage, which brings me to the next layer of complexity, adding in insight stage, or ñana terminology. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;The insight stages of specific relevance are the first 11, namely: &lt;/p&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;1. Mind and Body&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;2. Cause and Effect&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;3. The Three Characteristics&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;4. The Arising and Passing Away&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;5. Dissolution&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;6. Fear&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;7. Misery&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;8. Disgust&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;9. Desire for Deliverance&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;10. Reobservation&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;11. Equanimity&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;p&gt;Note that you can break these down by subjhanas and subsubjhanas and also subñanas and subsubñanas. Beyond about 3 levels it gets less useful, but I can really see distinct uses for those 3 levels of complexity. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Add to this that different focuses of practice, namely different objects, can really color how these present, with mantras and visualization objects producing really different effects or experiences of these variously classified stages and states than, say, vibrations or the breath or bliss, or whatever. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Thus, for instance, to really use this, one might have been really applying effort on the breath and gotten into something that was highly effortful but the breath became abstract and then vanished along with the body and all that was left was some sort of slowly shifting vague thing in space that is now nearly entirely formless and yet there is still somehow this really heavy first jhana effort, narrow vibe to the thing and it happened early in a retreat. You could classify this numerous ways, but I would tend to call that something like the moderately balanced insight/concentration part of the 7th subjhana of the 1st jhana. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;When I tend to think in shorthand about these things, I tend to use notation in my brain that looks like this: &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;bj1.j7: meaning balanced (b) samatha/vipassana 7th subjhana part of 1st jhana &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Or, to give another example using alternate notation for another experience: &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;ñ5.sj3.ñ11: meaning the Equanimity part of the 3rd samatha jhana part of Dissolution, where ñ demarcates that the number that follows it is a ñana, and the sj demarcates that the number that follows it refers to the smooth or samatha aspect of the 3rd jhana. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Or, to give another example: &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;ñ11.vj4.vj6: meaning the Boundless Consciousness sub sub aspect of the 4th vipassana subjhana aspect of Equanimity, which sounds needlessly picky until you notice enough to realize that that sub sub aspect can easily be found and experienced. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Or, to give another example: &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;sj4.sj8: meaning the 8th subjhana of the 4th jhana, which would be distinguished from proper 8th jhana in my mind by the continued presence of form, or, to get even more precise: &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;hsj3.hsj4: meaning the hard (h) 4th subjhana aspect of hard 3rd samatha jhana, as opposed to: &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;ssj3.ssj4: meaning the soft (s) 4th subjhana aspect of soft 3rd samatha jhana. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Or even: &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;h!sj6: meaning simply really hard straightforward Boundless Consciousness &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Or, to get more simple: &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;hsj8: meaning the hard samatha jhana version of the 8th samatha jhana, which I personally consider redundant for a few reasons: one, you can&amp;#039;t investigate the 8th jhana, as isn&amp;#039;t possible if it really is 8th, and two, because true 8th is always hard if it is actually 8th as I think of it, and if it wasn&amp;#039;t, then it probably was j4.j8 or something like that. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Or, you could be fluxing way up in the formless aspects of Equanimity, something I might label: &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;ñ11.hvj7 for really hard versions of the fluxing of the Nothingness aspect of Equanimity, and by hard I mean really well developed, not stable, just so there is no confusion about this. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Or, if you managed to get one of the Three Doors off of that, those 3 moments would be: &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;ñ12.hvj7, ñ13.hvj7, ñ14.hvj7, with the h&amp;#039;s being redundant, as the 12-14th ñanas (Conformity, Change of Lineage and Path) being always hard, meaning fully developed by definition, and the designations of subñana actually meaning something slightly different here, as they don&amp;#039;t have subjhanic aspects, being only one moment as they are, but referring to the object they took to see the full truth of completely. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Yes, there are the Pure Land jhanas, which I tend to label 9, 10, etc, depending on how many you think there are, which is debated, but let&amp;#039;s keep those numbers open. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;There is also a special place I refer to as the post-8th junction point, a nexus of options that open once you have been to some version of the 8th jhana or perhaps after j4.j8, which seems to do it pretty well also, but not quite as well. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;In this system, you can say things really quickly, like the instructions for getting Nirodha Samapatti would be to rise naturally from sbj1 to sbj7, enter j8, come out, resolve and enter NS, meaning that you should use a softer version of the jhanas 1-7 with a balance of samatha and vipassana aspects without having either predominate, enter 8 proper, come out to the post-8th JP, and enter NS. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;You can also detail nuanced aspects of certain phases of practice, such as the different phases of the A&amp;amp;P, Dissolution, and Equanimity, which have many little aspects to how they develop and where you can take them. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Or, you can add the object, such as: &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;light.hñ4.sj2 Meaning that, at that moment or phase of practice, the light that some see in the hard version of the insight stage of the A&amp;amp;P was taken as object and practice took on more of a 2nd samatha jhana feel, meaning the light showed itself and wasn&amp;#039;t vipassinized or seen as pulses, but instead was more of a concentration object at that phase and the light showed itself on its own and didn&amp;#039;t require sustained attention to manifest. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;And you can add duration, such that you might note light.hñ4.sj2.5minutes: meaning that you stared at the white light for 5 minutes in that subjhanic phase of the A&amp;amp;P. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;There are numerous pitfalls in thinking about things in this way, and one can easily make really large mistakes, such as mistaking 1.7 for 7.1 and things like that, but realizing that this sub-aspect nature of things is even possible allows one to ask the question and hopefully also provides a way to sort out 1.7 from 7.1, which are developmentally really, really different and have profoundly different implications for practice. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;In this classification scheme, you can allow for all sorts of things, such as Alan Wallace&amp;#039;s 1st jhana, which might be written h!!!sj1.24hours, meaning that it is really, really, really hard and lated 24 hours, or certain people&amp;#039;s versions of the formless realms which also are really light and actually contain form, and I think of as s!!!sj1.7, meaning the really, really, really soft version of some formed version of the Nothingness aspect of 1st jhana, as they are making effort to see it and are so light they can talk in it. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Anyway, you get the idea, and hopefully some of this nuance of aspects and terminology will help people describe and categorize their experiences, as well as utilize the standard advice for various phases and aspects as they apply to those experiences for deepening in them and also realizing what is possible beyond them. &lt;/p&gt;</summary> <dc:creator>Daniel M. Ingram</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-03-17T23:21:16Z</dc:date> </entry> <entry> <title>Jhana Development Axes 1.8 (minor-edit)</title> <link rel="alternate" href="http://localhost/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/10303/Jhana+Development+Axes" /> <author> <name>Mike L</name> </author> <id>http://localhost/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/10303/Jhana+Development+Axes</id> <updated>2013-08-30T06:35:27Z</updated> <published>2013-08-30T06:35:27Z</published> <summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Daniel M. Ingram: &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;The ways jhanas may be experienced is extremely wide, leading to confusion at times. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;There are the basic strata of mind called jhanas, and, like they colors of the rainbow, they are something fundamental in the way the human brain is built and progresses in its development of consciousness. While people may temporarily skip around or have flashes of peak experience, in general the way the jhanas progress and develop is very predictable. Just as a flame, as it gets hotter, goes from red to orange to yellow to green to blue etc., just so people develop in jhanas. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;However, different people with different focuses, talents, limitations, proclivities, inclinations, fascinations, approaches, techniques and goals may experience markedly different things while in the fundamental jhanas. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;For instance, one using visual objects such as sacred geometry or a tantric image may experience the jhanas very differently from one using a mantra, the breath, or the qualities of the jhanas themselves. Even someone taking the qualities of the jhanas themselves as object has much to choose from and this will alter how they present. For instance: &lt;/p&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;Someone might be in the second jhana and really focusing on the bliss aspect, and it is likely to become stronger by the attention given it.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Someone else in the second jhana might be paying a lot of attention to the Three Characteristics and vibrations, and so be having more Kundalini-esque experiences or feel little ripples of sensations along their skin.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Another person might be using a visual object and see a little spinning disk with a star in it or a bright white light.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Another person might be taking the steady straight-on width of attention as object and hardly notice the bliss or any visual or Kundalini things at all.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Another person might take the effortlessness as object, and simply dwell in the natural concentration of that state.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Another person might with the ability to dwell in the &lt;a href=""&gt;No-Dog&lt;/a&gt; might be taking that as object and hardly notice the second jhana at all, thought it might manifest quite strongly in some way.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Another person might be using a &lt;a href=""&gt;mantra&lt;/a&gt;, and notice that suddenly the mantra is reciting itself strongly and clearly in a way that it wasn&amp;#039;t before.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Another person might be simply practicing adverting to jhanas rapidly and get into the second jhana rapidly and not really care so much about the specifics, only to jump to another jhana.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Another person might be going for depth and duration, and really give some aspect of the second jhana a lot of strong, steady concentration with resolutions to stay in it for some long period of time before moving on, allowing it to deepen beyond where it might go if given more superficial attention.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Another person might be taking the rapture or more erotic and pleasurable aspects of the second jhana as object, having a very different experience than someone taking some other aspect as object.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Another might be exploring &lt;a href=""&gt;sub-jhanas&lt;/a&gt;, really checking out each aspect of the way the jhana develops.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Another might be adding aspects to the jhana, come up with &lt;a href=""&gt;compound jhanas&lt;/a&gt; based on their own talent for combining or augmenting jhanic states.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;There are even good reasons to argue that certain dream experiences correlate with specific jhanas, such as flying dreams having a second jhana aspect to them, or fear/chase/fighting dreams being part of the third jhana.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;On a related note, lucid dreaming itself is a very second jhana sort of thing to do, particularly around the stage of the &lt;a href=""&gt;Arising and Passing Away&lt;/a&gt;, such that one might correlate cyclic lucid dreaming activity to being in the phase of the second jhana&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;p&gt;In this way, we see by example that there are many directions in which we can develop a jhana. This is far from a complete list, but it gives an illustration of the basic concepts and many of the basic axes. Keep these aspects and nuances in mind when exploring the jhanas in your own practice, when mapping, and when trying to evaluate the experiences and writings of others. &lt;/p&gt;</summary> <dc:creator>Mike L</dc:creator> <dc:date>2013-08-30T06:35:27Z</dc:date> </entry> <entry> <title>MCTB The Progress of Insight 2.0</title> <link rel="alternate" href="http://localhost/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/10303/MCTB+The+Progress+of+Insight" /> <author> <name>Tim Freeman</name> </author> <id>http://localhost/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/10303/MCTB+The+Progress+of+Insight</id> <updated>2013-08-25T05:26:43Z</updated> <published>2013-08-25T05:26:43Z</published> <summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;&lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;The progress of insight is a set of stages that diligent meditators pass through on the path of insight. Some of the “content based” or psychological insights into ourselves can be interesting and helpful, but when I say “insight,” these stages are what I am talking about. Just so that you have seen the whole list of the names of these stages, the formal names of stages of insight in order are: &lt;/p&gt;&lt;h3 id="section-MCTB+The+Progress+of+Insight-The+Pre-Vipassana+Stages,+1st+Vipassana+Jhana"&gt;The Pre-Vipassana Stages, 1st Vipassana Jhana&lt;a class="hashlink" href="#section-MCTB+The+Progress+of+Insight-The+Pre-Vipassana+Stages,+1st+Vipassana+Jhana"&gt;#&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h3&gt;&lt;p&gt;1. Mind and Body &lt;br/&gt;2. Cause and Effect &lt;br/&gt;3. The Three Characteristics &lt;/p&gt;&lt;h3 id="section-MCTB+The+Progress+of+Insight-The+2nd+Vipassana+Jhana"&gt;The 2nd Vipassana Jhana&lt;a class="hashlink" href="#section-MCTB+The+Progress+of+Insight-The+2nd+Vipassana+Jhana"&gt;#&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h3&gt;&lt;p&gt;4. The Arising and Passing Away &lt;/p&gt;&lt;h3 id="section-MCTB+The+Progress+of+Insight-The+3rd+Vipassana+Jhana,+The+Dukkha+Ñanas,+The+Dark+Night"&gt;The 3rd Vipassana Jhana, The Dukkha Ñanas, The Dark Night&lt;a class="hashlink" href="#section-MCTB+The+Progress+of+Insight-The+3rd+Vipassana+Jhana,+The+Dukkha+Ñanas,+The+Dark+Night"&gt;#&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h3&gt;&lt;p&gt;5. Dissolution &lt;br/&gt;6. Fear &lt;br/&gt;7. Misery &lt;br/&gt;8. Disgust &lt;br/&gt;9. Desire for Deliverance &lt;br/&gt;10. Re-observation &lt;/p&gt;&lt;h3 id="section-MCTB+The+Progress+of+Insight-The+4th+Vipassana+Jhana"&gt;The 4th Vipassana Jhana&lt;a class="hashlink" href="#section-MCTB+The+Progress+of+Insight-The+4th+Vipassana+Jhana"&gt;#&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h3&gt;&lt;p&gt;11. Equanimity &lt;br/&gt;12. Conformity &lt;br/&gt;13. Change of Lineage &lt;br/&gt;14. Path &lt;/p&gt;&lt;h3 id="section-MCTB+The+Progress+of+Insight-Nirvana+(first+of+two+meanings)"&gt;Nirvana (first of two meanings)&lt;a class="hashlink" href="#section-MCTB+The+Progress+of+Insight-Nirvana+(first+of+two+meanings)"&gt;#&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h3&gt;&lt;p&gt;15. Fruition &lt;/p&gt;&lt;h3 id="section-MCTB+The+Progress+of+Insight-Review"&gt;Review&lt;a class="hashlink" href="#section-MCTB+The+Progress+of+Insight-Review"&gt;#&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h3&gt;&lt;p&gt;16. Review &lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;I will give detailed descriptions of them shortly. &lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;I will refer to these stages by their shortened titles, their numbers and occasionally short-hand slang. These are formally known as “Knowledge of” and then the stage, e.g. “Knowledge of Mind and Body,” but I will just use the part after the “of.” They are also called “ñanas,” which means “knowledges”, usually with a number, as in “the first ñana.” Notice that I use the word stage rather than state. These are stages of heightened perception into the truth of things, opportunities to see directly how things actually are, but they are not seemingly stable states as with concentration practice. The jhanaic groupings refer to vipassana jhanas, which will be covered in more depth later, but they borrow their perspectives and certain fundamental aspects from their samatha jhana equivalents. In other ways they may diverge widely from the experience of pure samatha jhanas. &lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;One of the most profound things about these stages is that they are strangely predictable regardless of the practitioner or the insight tradition. Texts two thousand years old describe the stages just the way people go through them today, though there will be some individual variation on some of the particulars today as then. The Christian maps, the Sufi maps, the Buddhist maps of the Tibetans and the Theravada, and the maps of the Khabbalists and Hindus are all remarkably consistent in their fundamentals. I chanced into these classic experiences before I had any training in meditation, and I have met a large number of people who have done likewise. These maps, Buddhist or otherwise, are talking about something inherent in how our minds progress in fundamental wisdom that has little to do with any tradition and lots to do with the mysteries of the human mind and body. They are describing basic human development. These stages are not Buddhist but universal, and Buddhism is merely one of the traditions that describes them, albeit unusually well. &lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;The progress of insight is discussed in a number of good books, such as Jack Kornfield’s A Path with Heart in the section called “Dissolving the Self”, which I highly recommend. A very extensive, thorough, accessible and highly recommended treatment of it is given in Mahasi Sayadaw’s works &lt;a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=YnedD2Jj3IIC&amp;amp;lpg=PP1&amp;amp;pg=PP1#v=onepage&amp;amp;q&amp;amp;f=false"&gt;The Progress of Insight&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=M2S-7-lWzHIC&amp;amp;lpg=PP1&amp;amp;pg=PP1#v=onepage&amp;amp;q&amp;amp;f=false"&gt;Practical Insight Meditation&lt;/a&gt; (on BPS out of Sri Lanka), a partially castrated version of which appears in Jack Kornfield’s Living Dharma. It should be noted here that Practical Insight Meditation is my favorite dharma book of all time with no close competitors. If you can ever lay your hands on a copy, do so! Even the section of it that appears in Living Dharma is much better than having access to none of it at all. &lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;Sayadaw U Pandita’s In This Very Life also covers this territory, and is a bit of a must-have for those who like lists and straight-up Theravada, but he leaves out a lot of juicy details. The Visuddhimagga, a Fifth Century text by Buddhaghosa, also does a nice treatment of these stages, and contains some interesting and hard-to-find information. It focuses largely on the emotional side effects and thus misses many useful points. Another good but brief map appears in Ven. Khenpo Karthar Rinpoche’s Dharma Paths. You could also check out Bhante Gunaratana’s The Path of Serenity and Insight if you would like to know the dogma well. It is a thorough and scholarly work. &lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;Matthew Flickstein’s Swallowing the River Ganges is a light treatment of basic Buddhist concepts and contains a very superficial treatment of the stages of insight. It is kind of like what would happen if you condensed a medical school textbook down to a fifth grade science text. It focuses almost entirely on the emotional side effects and thus misses a huge amount that is worthy of discussion, but it comes from a good place and is harmless enough. It doesn’t add anything to the above sources but is easy to read. &lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;There are many less accessible maps of insight as well. The Tibetan Book of the Dead: Liberation Through Hearing in the Bardo requires some prior familiarity with this territory to sort out the wild symbolic imagery. A Twelfth Century Sufi map is given in Journey to the Lord of Power by Ibn &amp;#039;Arabi, but again the medieval symbolism is somewhat hard to untangle unless you are already personally familiar with these stages. It also provides a very interesting if quite cryptic description of the higher stages of realization. St. John of the Cross’ The Dark Night of The Soul does a good job of dealing with the most difficult of the insight stages. His map is called “The Ladder of Love”. Unfortunately, the translation of the medieval Spanish and thickness of complex Catholic dogma make it fairly inaccessible. &lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;I strongly recommend that you consult some of these other sources, particularly the first five mentioned. While I consider the treatment of the stages of insight that follows shortly to be by far the most comprehensive and practical explanation of the stages of insight ever written, and I mean that honestly, there are still lots of great points made in those books, and you should check them out. There is a huge amount of valuable information left out in all of these sources, perhaps due to the Mushroom Factor, but perhaps due also to some of the difficulties in describing all the little nuances of the subject in all its possible variations. Thus, working with a teacher who has personal mastery of these stages (regardless of what they call them) is an extremely good idea most of the time. &lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;The model terminology I am using is from the ancient commentaries on the Pali Canon of the Theravada tradition. This model is used mostly in Burma but is also used to some degree in the other Theravada traditions. Zen is quite aware of these stages, as all Zen Masters had to go through them and continue to do so, but they tend not to name them or talk about them, as is their typical style. This can be helpful, as people can get all obsessed with these maps, turning them into a new form of useless content and a source of imprisoning identification and competition. This is the ugly shadow side of goal-oriented or map-based practice, but it often (though not always) may be overcome with honest awareness of this fact. That said, Zen&amp;#039;s persistent lack of attention to them can cause other problems, and some balance between intentionally ignoring them and obsessing over them works better than either extreme. &lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;Luckily, if the meditator really is into insight territory, continued correct practice has a way of making things happen given time. Also, when the proverbial stuff is hitting the fan, having a map around can really help the meditator not make too many of the common and tempting mistakes of that stage, as well as provide the meditator with faith that that they are on the right track when they hit the hard or weird stages. These stages can significantly color or skew a meditator’s view of their life until they master them, and it can be very helpful to remember this when trying to navigate this territory and keep one’s job and relationships functioning. Those who do not have the benefit of the maps in these situations or who choose to ignore them are much more easily blindsided by the psychological extremes and challenges which may sometimes accompany stages such as The Arising and Passing Away and those of The Dark Night. &lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;While many people don’t want to know the maps for various reasons (such as their own unexamined insecurities), I suspect that many more people could get a lot farther in their practice if they did know them. At the very least, the maps clearly demonstrate that there is vastly more to all this than just philosophy or psychology. They also clearly and unambiguously point to how the game is played step by step and stage by stage, what one is looking for and more importantly why, and give guidelines for how to avoid screwing up along the way. Why people wouldn’t want to know these things is completely beyond me. &lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;They fill in the juicy details of the seemingly vast gap from doing some seemingly boring and simple practice to getting enlightened. Further, providing all of this extremely precise information on exactly what to do puts the responsibility for progress or a lack thereof clearly on the meditator (e.g. you), which is exactly where it should be. If after reading this book you don’t put this extremely powerful information into practice, the fault is your own. &lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;There is considerable evidence that the lack of this information in insight traditions that don’t use the maps has been one of the primary obstacles to progress. On the other hand, the maps can sometimes cause furious competition and arrogance in the traditions that do use them, as well as harmful fixation on purely future-oriented goals. Please, do your very best to avoid these sorts of problems. &lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;The more intense, consistent and precise the practice, the easier it is to see how the maps apply. The more energy, focus and consistency is put into practice, the more dramatic and even outrageous these stages can be. If these stages unfold over long periods of time and gently, it can be more difficult to see the progression through them, though it does happen regardless. Certain emphases in practice, such as Mahasi Sayadaw style “noting” practice, particularly on intensive retreats, seem to produce a clearer appreciation of the maps, and some individuals will have an easier time seeing how these maps apply than others will. &lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;Each stage is marked by very specific increases in our perceptual abilities. The basic areas we can improve in are clarity, precision, speed, consistency, inclusiveness and acceptance. It is these improvements in our perceptual abilities that are the hallmarks of each stage and the gold standard by which they are defined and known. Each stage also tends to bring up mental and physical raptures (unusual manifestations). These are fairly predictable at each stage and sometimes very unique to each stage. They are secondary to the increase in perceptual thresholds of ways by which we may judge whether or not we are in a particular stage. &lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;Each stage also tends to bring up specific aspects of our emotional and psychological makeup. These are also strangely predictable, but these are not as reliable for determining which stage is occurring. They are suggestible, ordinary, and will show more variation from person to person. However, when used in conjunction with the changes in perceptual threshold and the raptures, they can help us get a clearer sense of which stage has been attained. Further, these stages occur in a very predictable order, and so looking for a pattern of stages leading one to the next can help us get a sense of what is going on. Thus, when reading my descriptions of these stages, pay attention to these separate aspects: the shift in perceptual threshold, the physical and mental raptures, the emotional and psychological tendencies, and the overall pattern of how that stage fits with the rest. &lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;So, the meditator sits down (or lies down, stands, etc.) and begins to try to experience each and every sensation clearly as it is. When the meditator gains enough concentration to steady the mind on the object of meditation, something called “access concentration,” they may enter the first jhana, now called the “first vipassana jhana,” which is in some ways the same for both concentration practice and insight practice at the beginning. However, as they have been practicing insight meditation, they are not trying to solidify this state, but are trying to penetrate the three illusions by understanding the Three Characteristics. &lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;They have been trying to sort out with mindfulness what is body and what is mind and when each is and isn’t there. They have been trying to be clear about the actual sensations that make up their world just as they are. They have been trying to directly understand the Three Characteristics moment to moment in whatever sensations arise, be it in a restricted area of space, such as the area of the sensations of breathing, a moving area of space (e.g. body-scanning practices), in the whole of their world as is done in choiceless awareness practices, using some other technique or object, or just by being alive and paying attention. Thus, this first stage has a different quality to it from that of concentration practice, and they attain to direct and clear perception of the first knowledge of... &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;MCTB 1. Mind and Body&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/p&gt;</summary> <dc:creator>Tim Freeman</dc:creator> <dc:date>2013-08-25T05:26:43Z</dc:date> </entry> <entry> <title>Daniel Ingram 2.8 (minor-edit)</title> <link rel="alternate" href="http://localhost/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/10303/Daniel+Ingram" /> <author> <name>Daniel M. Ingram</name> </author> <id>http://localhost/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/10303/Daniel+Ingram</id> <updated>2013-08-21T20:17:53Z</updated> <published>2013-08-21T20:17:53Z</published> <summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Welcome to my personal page. I founded the Dharma Underground, which lead to the wetpaint version of the Dharma Overground, which lead here to this version of the DhO. I am also a site administrator. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Having gotten frustrated with the world of on-line dharma blogs that were all about dogma, hierarchy, disempowering view about how it can&amp;#039;t be done, mindless blind faith in absurd ideals and texts that were wildly out of touch with reality, and a whole host of other absurdities, I founded this place to form a save haven for people who were into hardcore practice, real attainments, helping people out in the spirit of mutual friends, open conversations about topics related to actual practice, and the like. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;My home website is &lt;a href="http://www.interactivebuddha.com"&gt;http://www.interactivebuddha.com&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;I make the following &lt;a href=""&gt;claims to attainments&lt;/a&gt;: &lt;/p&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;I am an &lt;a href=""&gt;arahat&lt;/a&gt;, having attained that in April, 2003.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;I have mastery of the &lt;a href=""&gt;samatha jhanas&lt;/a&gt;, including &lt;a href=""&gt;Pure Land One&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=""&gt;Pure Land Two&lt;/a&gt;, &lt;a href=""&gt;The Watcher&lt;/a&gt;, and &lt;a href=""&gt;Nirodha Samapatti&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;I have some experience with some other traditional attainments.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;I can access the state that this place calls &lt;a href=""&gt;No Dog&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;p&gt;I wrote the book &lt;em&gt;Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha: An Unusually Hardcore Dharma Book&lt;/em&gt;, often abbreviated &lt;a href=""&gt;MCTB&lt;/a&gt;, which has influenced the practice of many members of the DhO. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;I am an emergency medicine physician who practices in emergency departments in Mississippi and Northeast Alabama, where I live with my wife, Carol, and my cats Boris, Mavis, and Elvira (Mistress of the Dark), along with a number of relatively tame raccoons, two of which we call Scruffy and Ramona. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;I give a whole lot more bio information in &lt;a href=""&gt;MCTB&lt;/a&gt;, so look there for more. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;I have many outside interests, including green building, cooking, dancing, playing and listening to music, the writings of Jack Vance, and a good deal more. Updates on my current practice, whatever it may be, can be found here: &lt;a href="https://daniel-ingram-c4x6.squarespace.com/current-practice-notes/"&gt;Current Practice Blog&lt;/a&gt;. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;It is my sincere hope that this place will serve to add to the available literature and support of hardcore, empowered practice and that through the collective work of a group of dedicated, skilled practitioners that meditation technology and culture will be advanced, enhanced and adapted to this post-post-modern world. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;A brief disclosure of finances, in case anyone cares: renting the server space and bandwidth for the DhO costs me about $179/month from Omegabit. There are also other expenses in running this place, such as developing the PM feature (which Liferay 5.2.2 didn&amp;#039;t have), which cost me about $1,500 out of pocket for the programming, and recent attempts to upgrade to Liferay 6.1, of which the total bill so far has been over $3000. I also get a small royalty on MCTB, my book, which generally runs roughly $400-800 every 6 months. Thus, I after paying for the DhO server time and miscellaneous expenses, I lose money on all of this, which is just fine by me and consider it my small dana to the world of meditation. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;I hope this community benefits you in some way. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Practice well, &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Daniel &lt;/p&gt;</summary> <dc:creator>Daniel M. Ingram</dc:creator> <dc:date>2013-08-21T20:17:53Z</dc:date> </entry> <entry> <title>ReformedSlackersGuide 2.5 (minor-edit)</title> <link rel="alternate" href="http://localhost/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/10303/ReformedSlackersGuide" /> <author> <name>Daniel M. Ingram</name> </author> <id>http://localhost/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/10303/ReformedSlackersGuide</id> <updated>2013-07-24T10:26:38Z</updated> <published>2013-07-24T10:26:38Z</published> <summary type="html">&lt;h2 id="section-ReformedSlackersGuide-A+Reformed+Slacker's+Guide+to+Stream+Entry"&gt;A Reformed Slacker&amp;#039;s Guide to &lt;a href=""&gt;Stream Entry&lt;/a&gt; &lt;a class="hashlink" href="#section-ReformedSlackersGuide-A+Reformed+Slacker's+Guide+to+Stream+Entry"&gt;#&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h2&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;written by&lt;br/&gt;Tarin Greco&lt;br/&gt;for Daniel and Carol&lt;br/&gt;&amp;amp; Pete&lt;/em&gt;&lt;br/&gt;(written February-April 09, unfinished draft. feedback welcome) &lt;/p&gt;&lt;hr/&gt;&lt;p&gt;Welcome to my first, and possibly only (time will tell), Dharma publication. The material I present here is drawn from my own experience and from inferences made on its basis. It is written for a readership already clued-in to the basic mental exercises that constitute &lt;a href=""&gt;insight meditation&lt;/a&gt;, the maps and models designed to describe its progress (particularly the &lt;a href=""&gt;four-path model&lt;/a&gt; derived from Theravadan Buddhism, to which this text will refer), as well as some of the vocabulary that is commonly used to describe those things, and its meaning and significance may elude readers outside this group. For example, if you don&amp;#039;t know what &lt;a href=""&gt;stream-entry&lt;/a&gt; (or first &lt;a href=""&gt;awakening&lt;/a&gt;) is, or why you would want it, this text may only serve to pique your curiosity, or it may be a boring or confusing read. On the other hand, if you&amp;#039;re part of an orthodoxy that holds, in one way or another, that &lt;a href=""&gt;nirvana&lt;/a&gt; is beyond a practitioner&amp;#039;s realistic reach and may as well be mythical, given its practical unattainability, this text may annoy you and you probably wouldn&amp;#039;t believe me anyway so, whatever, it doesn&amp;#039;t matter. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;This text is meant to be read as a companion volume to &lt;a href=""&gt;Daniel M. Ingram&amp;#039;s&lt;/a&gt; &lt;em&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;, to which it will frequently refer, for while this essay may be insightful as stand-alone writing, and may indeed prove to be key reading for those whose temperaments and styles of practise (and habits of shortcoming) are similar enough to my own, it does not offer a thorough enough treatment of either the &lt;a href=""&gt;insight meditation&lt;/a&gt; theory or practical instruction that a novice (or anyone sufficiently doubting their skill) will need. What this text does offer is an exposition on the way to hit a &lt;a href=""&gt;retreat&lt;/a&gt; properly and the right attitude to have in order to &lt;a href=""&gt;attain a path&lt;/a&gt;. Its primary functions are &lt;/p&gt;&lt;ol&gt;&lt;li&gt; to serve as an exposition of how path can be achieved through &lt;a href=""&gt;insight practice&lt;/a&gt; by someone who is willing to give it all they&amp;#039;ve got (and how, if that&amp;#039;s you, that means you can do it), as well as&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; to offer a few tips on what you might be doing wrong if you&amp;#039;ve been working at it for a while already and it just hasn&amp;#039;t happened yet.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ol&gt;&lt;p&gt;As best I&amp;#039;ve been able to determine, most people who have completed at least one &lt;a href=""&gt;path of insight&lt;/a&gt; have done so while on intensive &lt;a href=""&gt;retreat&lt;/a&gt;, particularly that &lt;a href=""&gt;first path&lt;/a&gt;. &lt;a href=""&gt;First path&lt;/a&gt;, otherwise known as &lt;a href=""&gt;stream-entry&lt;/a&gt;, is reputed to be particularly tricky in that it requires the mind&amp;#039;s entire field of experience to do something it&amp;#039;s never done before: &lt;a href=""&gt;completely disappear&lt;/a&gt;. To arise, and then pass totally, without remainder. What this takes in order to happen for the first time is not entirely clear to me; perhaps it&amp;#039;s focus, perhaps concentration, perhaps timing; and in support of all those things, perhaps a kind of sheer willingness at a deep, deep level. These are my guesses. Regardless, whatever it is mostly tends to occur on &lt;a href=""&gt;retreat&lt;/a&gt;, so I&amp;#039;ve heard, and that&amp;#039;s been my personal experience as well. Therefore, this book will be about going on &lt;a href=""&gt;retreat&lt;/a&gt;. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;You can either retreat at a &lt;a href=""&gt;meditation centre&lt;/a&gt; or you can retreat on your own. If doing the former, there will be rules to follow and a schedule to keep up. If doing the latter, make your own timetable and stick to it. If retreat at a &lt;a href=""&gt;centre&lt;/a&gt;, the basic needs are taken care of. Someone cooks you food, there is a place you can sleep when it&amp;#039;s time to rest, and a bunch of people are all doing the same thing at the same time around you to remind you to stay disciplined. If doing a solo &lt;a href=""&gt;retreat&lt;/a&gt;, you will have the benefit of stark isolation, which can turn into very powerful focus, but you may have to prepare your own food and be your own motivation, in which case it will greatly pay to keep food and other routines simple. Both centre retreats and solo retreats have advantages and drawbacks, but either way, you should have the same attitude, which is to say a hard-working and independent one. Don&amp;#039;t drift through your &lt;a href=""&gt;retreat&lt;/a&gt;! Pay attention to each and every bit of it. Practise even when there doesn&amp;#039;t seem to be any point. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;I should probably mention, for those unfamiliar with &lt;em&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;, that my expectations of &lt;a href=""&gt;retreats&lt;/a&gt; and retreatants are heavily influenced by the &lt;a href=""&gt;Mahasi Sayadaw&lt;/a&gt; tradition. That means non-stop, second-by-second attention to, and utmost engagement with, the &lt;a href=""&gt;insight practice&lt;/a&gt; from the moment you wake up to the moment you&amp;#039;re out for the night... and then some. Seriously, we aren&amp;#039;t fooling around here. If you&amp;#039;re not sometimes buzzy and occasionally neurotic that you&amp;#039;re not putting in enough moment-to-moment effort, you probably really aren&amp;#039;t. While &lt;a href=""&gt;insight practice&lt;/a&gt; requires a balance of &lt;a href=""&gt;effort&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=""&gt;tranquillity&lt;/a&gt;, an &lt;a href=""&gt;arahant&lt;/a&gt; friend of mine is convinced that 99% of meditators err on the side of laxity. If you&amp;#039;re convinced that you&amp;#039;re in the other 1%, this probably isn&amp;#039;t the guide for you. And while there are &lt;a href=""&gt;traditions&lt;/a&gt; that retreat in a more laid-back way, perhaps by not utilising all the minutes in a day for &lt;a href=""&gt;insight practice&lt;/a&gt;, or by alternating between periods of formal, heavily focused &lt;a href=""&gt;insight practice&lt;/a&gt; and gently mindful &amp;#039;rest periods&amp;#039; or &amp;#039;activity periods&amp;#039;, this book is about what I know, and what I know is that working my ass off in a non-stop way, as recommended, worked. Overkill? Perhaps, but see how good you feel coming out of &lt;a href=""&gt;retreat&lt;/a&gt;, still unenlightened, and wondering if maybe you simply didn&amp;#039;t try hard enough. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;So, enough lead up. What is this all about, what is needed? Down to the heart of the matter. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;If you would like a successful &lt;a href=""&gt;retreat&lt;/a&gt;, you should probably: &lt;/p&gt;&lt;h3 id="section-ReformedSlackersGuide-1-+Start+by+Beliefbelieving+that+you+can+do+it."&gt; 1- Start by &lt;a href=""&gt;believing&lt;/a&gt; that you can do it. &lt;a class="hashlink" href="#section-ReformedSlackersGuide-1-+Start+by+Beliefbelieving+that+you+can+do+it."&gt;#&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h3&gt;&lt;p&gt;This part is crucial. However you do it, make sure you know that your &lt;a href=""&gt;goal&lt;/a&gt; is possible. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;Sceptical&lt;/a&gt; that it&amp;#039;s possible? Why? People have done it, people do it. Talk to people who have done it, there&amp;#039;s enough of them around. Don&amp;#039;t know them in person? Can&amp;#039;t find some who will talk openly? Not meeting them at your favourite health food store? Come online, there&amp;#039;s a bunch of people who get it on the Internet. A wiki-based web community called &lt;a href="http://www.dharmaoverground.org"&gt;The Dharma Overground&lt;/a&gt; has a decent collection of practitioners from a variety of &lt;a href=""&gt;mystical traditions&lt;/a&gt;, Buddhist as well as otherwise, who are attained, &lt;a href=""&gt;insight&lt;/a&gt; and otherwise, and open about it.. a collection which is growing as more of the current members tune in and &lt;a href=""&gt;get it done&lt;/a&gt;, and more people who&amp;#039;ve already done it, and so get it, find their way to the group. Anyway, wherever you can find people willing to talk about it, take advantage of it. Make sure it sinks in that &lt;a href=""&gt;enlightenment&lt;/a&gt;, where it occurs, is an everyday reality.. not divorced from the realm of ordinary experience in which you are living right now. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;It&amp;#039;s important to know it&amp;#039;s actually, seriously, possible so that you don&amp;#039;t compartmentalise your expectation of &lt;a href=""&gt;enlightenment&lt;/a&gt; away from your direct experience of being alive here and now. Don&amp;#039;t pigeonhole &lt;a href=""&gt;enlightenment&lt;/a&gt; into an &amp;#039;it will magically drop out of the sky&amp;#039; mental category. You&amp;#039;d think that simply because you&amp;#039;ve been dogging it, &lt;a href=""&gt;retreat&lt;/a&gt; for &lt;a href=""&gt;retreat&lt;/a&gt;, you wouldn&amp;#039;t be treating the possibility of actually seriously getting enlightened like fantasyland stuff, wouldn&amp;#039;t you? Believe me, this is a habit that&amp;#039;s hard to not form and once formed, hard to break. 9 years steady on the trail, with even some time in the monkhood, and I was still doing it to no end. Are you assuming this yourself? Do you find yourself thinking of &lt;a href=""&gt;enlightenment&lt;/a&gt; in the form of an unattached daydream, similar to winning the lottery? Investigate yourself seriously and if you find that you are, take a good look at what you&amp;#039;re doing. It is solidly &lt;a href=""&gt;disempowering&lt;/a&gt; for your mind to assume &lt;a href=""&gt;enlightenment&lt;/a&gt; can only exist in the stories you tell about your future at best, your maybe-future at worst. Start looking for it right here and now, right around you and right through you. What does it mean to look for it? It means to: &lt;/p&gt;&lt;h3 id="section-ReformedSlackersGuide-2-+Following+InstructionsFollow+the+retreat+instructions+ruthlessly."&gt; 2- &lt;a href=""&gt;Follow the retreat instructions&lt;/a&gt; ruthlessly. &lt;a class="hashlink" href="#section-ReformedSlackersGuide-2-+Following+InstructionsFollow+the+retreat+instructions+ruthlessly."&gt;#&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h3&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;Following retreat instructions&lt;/a&gt; means doing the exercises they tell you to. This should mean doing &lt;a href=""&gt;insight practices&lt;/a&gt; that cause you to pay attention to things as they are. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;In the &lt;a href=""&gt;Mahasi&lt;/a&gt; tradition, and in much of the Theravadan Buddhist world, insight &lt;a href=""&gt;insight practice&lt;/a&gt; means paying attention to any or all of the &lt;a href=""&gt;Three Characteristics&lt;/a&gt; that can be found in any instance of sense experience; they are the characteristics of &lt;a href=""&gt;impermanence (momentariness)&lt;/a&gt;, &lt;a href=""&gt;suffering (fundamental tension, displacement and discomfort)&lt;/a&gt;, and &lt;a href=""&gt;no-self&lt;/a&gt; (hardest to explain, it has to do with an illusion that never clearly existed anyway, so perhaps best it&amp;#039;s understood for now as the spontaneous and out-of-anyone&amp;#039;s-control aspect of how sensations just happen on their own). &lt;a href=""&gt;Ingram&lt;/a&gt; makes much fuss about this subject, which is a perspective I have benefitted from to no end and heartily endorse but will also proceed to contradict later on. For now, however, if you&amp;#039;re going to take on &lt;a href=""&gt;noting practice&lt;/a&gt;, assume that seeing some aspect of the &lt;a href=""&gt;Three Characteristics&lt;/a&gt; at this very moment is the only way you&amp;#039;re going to get anywhere. Keep at it! Remember, in general, you should: &lt;/p&gt;&lt;h3 id="section-ReformedSlackersGuide-3-+Put+more+Efforteffort+in+than+you+think+you+need."&gt; 3- Put more &lt;a href=""&gt;effort&lt;/a&gt; in than you think you need. &lt;a class="hashlink" href="#section-ReformedSlackersGuide-3-+Put+more+Efforteffort+in+than+you+think+you+need."&gt;#&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h3&gt;&lt;p&gt;It can feel unnatural to work so hard, but the &lt;a href=""&gt;progession of insight&lt;/a&gt; can feel pretty unnatural too. Will you overshoot it by working too hard? Theoretically I guess that&amp;#039;s possible. Heck, it took me almost 9 days on &lt;a href=""&gt;retreat&lt;/a&gt; to do it.. maybe if I had mellowed out a bit, it wouldn&amp;#039;t have taken so long! Haha, unlikely. &lt;a href=""&gt;Stream-entry&lt;/a&gt; is essentially a shot in the dark.. it&amp;#039;s your destiny to miss over and over again until your mind finally lands its rhythm and figures out how to rhyme on time (and &lt;a href=""&gt;disappear on time with the rhyme&lt;/a&gt;). This is a trial and error process and a classic example of procedural learning. While you&amp;#039;re not going to be able to force it to happen, you can pretty much take away all the other options. This is a gradual process, and every moment of contribution helps tremendously. Therefore: &lt;/p&gt;&lt;h3 id="section-ReformedSlackersGuide-4-+Keep+going,+don't+stop."&gt; 4- Keep going, don&amp;#039;t stop. &lt;a class="hashlink" href="#section-ReformedSlackersGuide-4-+Keep+going,+don't+stop."&gt;#&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h3&gt;&lt;p&gt;Not for a moment, not for a second, don&amp;#039;t slack, don&amp;#039;t allow yourself to do things you think will cause you to unintentionally slack in the next moment. The whole world in a grain of sand. The whole world in this one moment. If you work like this, with this kind of intensity, whether you &lt;a href=""&gt;land a path&lt;/a&gt; or not you will gain &lt;a href=""&gt;insight&lt;/a&gt; like nothing else, which will heavily contribute to your life being better. Work with the kind of immediacy that is focused on what is right here, right now, and that highlights the relationship and engagement you have with it. And at times you slip from it, and can&amp;#039;t seem to find your way back to the &lt;a href=""&gt;cutting edge&lt;/a&gt;: &lt;/p&gt;&lt;h3 id="section-ReformedSlackersGuide-5-+Notice+the+times+you're+probably+making+things+harder+for+yourself."&gt; 5- Notice the times you&amp;#039;re probably making things harder for yourself. &lt;a class="hashlink" href="#section-ReformedSlackersGuide-5-+Notice+the+times+you're+probably+making+things+harder+for+yourself."&gt;#&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h3&gt;&lt;p&gt;Artificial &lt;a href=""&gt;dualities&lt;/a&gt;, nonsensical problems. Should I do this, or should I try that? Will this work, or will it only get in the way of that working? The subject/object out-of-focus makes things that don&amp;#039;t actually contradict each other look like they do, and as you pay increasing attention to the out-of-focus, you may become kind of loopy and start seeing problems that wouldn&amp;#039;t exist if you didn&amp;#039;t think they did. The 3rd &lt;a href=""&gt;stage of insight&lt;/a&gt; (&lt;a href=""&gt;Comprehension of the Three Characteristics&lt;/a&gt;) and the late &lt;a href=""&gt;Dark Night&lt;/a&gt; stages can magnify this tendency a great deal. The way to deal with it is to keep practising as best you can. Sometimes, absolutely nothing works. So note the &lt;a href=""&gt;suffering&lt;/a&gt;, note the anxiety, note the confusion, note the discontent, note the restlessness, etc. Get acquainted with the way your mind flinches around to try and avoid &lt;a href=""&gt;suffering&lt;/a&gt;, and get comfortable with it. &lt;a href=""&gt;Suffering&lt;/a&gt; is a part of your world and it does not have to be a hindrance, so pay attention to it. What is the experience of &lt;a href=""&gt;suffering&lt;/a&gt;? This is a very real question, and the answer is something like &amp;#039;the whole world in this moment&amp;#039;. Nothing outside of this moment is going to deliver this particular answer for you, because you are looking to understand something about this moment itself. &lt;a href=""&gt;Suffering&lt;/a&gt; is often a clear indicator about where to look in order to see this, and as such, the hard times are some of the best opportunities to internalise this very necessary understanding. So embrace them when they arise and make best use of them. The more comfortable you are in your own &lt;a href=""&gt;suffering&lt;/a&gt;, the more clearly you will see what you&amp;#039;ve got to work with, and there is no better position you can be in, in order to: &lt;/p&gt;&lt;h3 id="section-ReformedSlackersGuide-6-+Figure+it+out+for+yourself."&gt; 6- Figure it out for yourself. &lt;a class="hashlink" href="#section-ReformedSlackersGuide-6-+Figure+it+out+for+yourself."&gt;#&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h3&gt;&lt;p&gt;If you&amp;#039;re halfway up a mountain and the way you think you&amp;#039;re supposed to be taking is blocked, it&amp;#039;s up to you to figure out how to get up the rest of it. At this point, it&amp;#039;s purely between you and reality.. and this isn&amp;#039;t a point you can locate on a &lt;a href=""&gt;map&lt;/a&gt;, this is a point that happens whenever you realise that it&amp;#039;s got to be this way. This is the sense that reality isn&amp;#039;t something that&amp;#039;s happening in a story somewhere else, it&amp;#039;s happening right here, right now. You don&amp;#039;t need an intermediary in order to perceive it, it&amp;#039;s something no technique, no teaching, no teacher, no matter how useful, can do for you. The relevance of all those things waxes and wanes; what remains relevant is the part you&amp;#039;re experiencing it with. So get comfortable with going it on your own! I can&amp;#039;t stress enough how important this is, and I conjecture that some lack in this spirit of the solo adventurer may be what keeps many people from attaining the greatness for which they have already cultivated the faculties required. Don&amp;#039;t be a lacker in this spirit, don&amp;#039;t slack on adventure. Therefore: &lt;/p&gt;&lt;h3 id="section-ReformedSlackersGuide-7-+Learn+to+have+fun."&gt; 7- Learn to have fun. &lt;a class="hashlink" href="#section-ReformedSlackersGuide-7-+Learn+to+have+fun."&gt;#&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h3&gt;&lt;p&gt;I know this may sound out-of-place given that the above instructions are about working hard non-stop and through all difficulties, but yeah, it&amp;#039;s like that. Don&amp;#039;t forget to have fun. Things change, roll with the punches, especially since in a sense what you&amp;#039;re working with is all you&amp;#039;ve got at that moment. Make sure to have a good time doing what you&amp;#039;re doing.. since you&amp;#039;re doing this for you! Going on &lt;a href=""&gt;retreat&lt;/a&gt; is about coming out of needless &lt;a href=""&gt;suffering&lt;/a&gt; and making a better life for yourself, so if there isn&amp;#039;t a part of you that&amp;#039;s having a good time doing it, or at least that understands it as good somehow, you might be missing something. Admittedly, there can be times where it&amp;#039;s no fun and you have no clue how anyone, least of all yourself, could be benefitting from this process in any way. Those times are good opportunities to just stay with the visceral experience of things as they are. They don&amp;#039;t tend to last forever though, so you can get back to having fun in no time if you so incline yourself... and I strongly recommend that you do. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;It is a wide, rich and varied &lt;a href=""&gt;territory&lt;/a&gt; you are navigating and you may lose your purpose or direction often. Getting it right and taking that next step forward will, in some ways, always involve a trial and error process on the most primitive and most basic levels. Your mind may do funny, seemingly unrelated and useless stuff. This is a natural side effect of being alive and learning new things. Stay engaged with reality, and learn to see the lighter side of these things. Be comfortable with &lt;a href=""&gt;mood swings&lt;/a&gt;. Get used to conflicting urges. And start feeling at home in the bevy of &lt;a href=""&gt;mapping&lt;/a&gt;, theorising, predicting, wondering, wanting, etc, and all the other neurotic &lt;a href=""&gt;intellectual activity&lt;/a&gt; that&amp;#039;s gonna happen anyway whether or not you think it&amp;#039;s useful. These things are not signs of regress so don&amp;#039;t be disheartened and take them as signals that you lack focus or control, or whatever seems to be the bad guy this time. &lt;a href=""&gt;Expectations&lt;/a&gt; or attempts to predict the next step, or whatever else shows up, are just part of the process your mind needs to go through, are part of this same reality you are attempting to investigate, and are not at all &lt;a href=""&gt;hindrances&lt;/a&gt; when you have &lt;a href=""&gt;insight&lt;/a&gt; into how they&amp;#039;re being experienced. Just like any other sensations, they are all causal, empty, happening on their own, and sufficient material for penetrative &lt;a href=""&gt;insight&lt;/a&gt; to develop in. Keeping a &lt;a href=""&gt;sense of humour&lt;/a&gt; to face the surprises that turn up along the way, and staying inquisitive when the going gets dull and you&amp;#039;ve exhausted all known options, will take you far. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;On that front, here&amp;#039;s something bizarre that, while it is not necessary to see &amp;#x2013; indeed, some people may simply never see it this way &amp;#x2013; I think may help some: understand that you can&amp;#039;t imagine a &lt;a href=""&gt;fruition&lt;/a&gt;, but don&amp;#039;t exclude the parts of your experience you think of as &amp;#039;imaginary&amp;#039; from practice. Indeed, there is something imaginary about all this. I have strong reservations saying this sort of stuff because it can be so easily misconstrued, but if you haven&amp;#039;t gotten path yet, a &lt;a href=""&gt;fruition&lt;/a&gt; is what you&amp;#039;re looking for, the entrance to a fruition arises out of the &lt;a href=""&gt;4th vipassana jhana&lt;/a&gt; (equanimity regarding formations), and 4th jhana is hella imaginary. I personally thought I must be crazy thinking things like this until I noticed that a quite-realised Dharma friend of mine&amp;#039;s email address contains the phrase &amp;#039;imaginationrealization&amp;#039;. It sanks into place that very moment. I&amp;#039;m at a loss for a better way to explain what I mean and have considered removing this section entirely, but opted to include it for people who might benefit from having it addressed, however many or few there are. If this paragraph seems strange or irrelevant to you, just skip it over. Then again, if it strangely was just what you needed to hear.. there you are. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Ok, so, remember how earlier I said that if you&amp;#039;re doing this &lt;a href=""&gt;Mahasi&lt;/a&gt;-style you should cling to seeing the &lt;a href=""&gt;Three Characteristics&lt;/a&gt; like it&amp;#039;s the only thing that&amp;#039;s going to get you anywhere? Well, here&amp;#039;s where I change my tune a bit. A time comes, deep enough into &lt;a href=""&gt;equanimity territory&lt;/a&gt;, perhaps after having come up to it and fallen back countless times, when it doesn&amp;#039;t matter how you&amp;#039;re practising, or labelling your practice.. you are just seeing things as they are. This means you might not be seeing things as &lt;a href=""&gt;characteristics&lt;/a&gt;, or &lt;a href=""&gt;vibrations&lt;/a&gt;, or whatever else has indicated to you up to this point that you&amp;#039;re on the right track. You might not even be paying attention to anything in particular about what you&amp;#039;re seeing. Should such a time come, and you realise that you&amp;#039;re here, just keep staying with whatever you&amp;#039;re staying with, doing whatever it is you&amp;#039;re doing. It won&amp;#039;t really matter at this point. No instruction is necessary here really.. anything can happen, taking any length of time, or nothing could happen at all. From here on, you&amp;#039;re really on your own.. I mean, you&amp;#039;ve actually been on your own all along, but this might be the part where you finally really notice it. And on that note, the end. Practice well and good luck. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;As a short appendix, I&amp;#039;ve attached some practical material that may be useful to have for referring to and helpful for getting started. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;A good example schedule to follow: &lt;/p&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; 4.30 awaken&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; 5.00 walk&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; 6.00 sit&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; 7.00 breakfast&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; 7.30 walk&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; 8.00 sit&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; 9.00 walk&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; 10.00 sit&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; 11.00 walk&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; 12.00 lunch, shower, rest, sit, etc&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; 13.00 walk&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; 14.00 sit&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; 15.00 walk&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; 16.00 sit&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; 17.00 walk&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; 18.00 sit&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; 19.00 walk&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; 20.00 sit&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; 21.00 walk&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; 22.00 sit&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; 22.30 recline&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;p&gt;And an example set of reminders to have stuck on the wall: &lt;/p&gt;&lt;ol&gt;&lt;li&gt; Don&amp;#039;t indulge in your &lt;a href=""&gt;crap&lt;/a&gt;!&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; When in doubt or struggling: &lt;a href=""&gt;note/hit&lt;/a&gt; and accept pain.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; If you have a question, the answer is in the &lt;a href=""&gt;Three Characteristics&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; Be &lt;a href=""&gt;mindful&lt;/a&gt; during transitions between activities.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; Analysis is not the same as practice.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; Practice at all times when awake.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; Stick to the schedule!&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; Remember how precious these moments are and how much the &lt;a href=""&gt;Dark Night&lt;/a&gt; sucks.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; When alone, practice just as hard; this is for you.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ol&gt;</summary> <dc:creator>Daniel M. Ingram</dc:creator> <dc:date>2013-07-24T10:26:38Z</dc:date> </entry> <entry> <title>Samatha jhanas 4.7 (minor-edit)</title> <link rel="alternate" href="http://localhost/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/10303/Samatha+jhanas" /> <author> <name>Paul S</name> </author> <id>http://localhost/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/10303/Samatha+jhanas</id> <updated>2013-05-12T14:59:49Z</updated> <published>2013-05-12T14:59:49Z</published> <summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;Jhana&lt;/em&gt; is a &lt;a href=""&gt;Pali&lt;/a&gt; word meaning &amp;#034;absorption.&amp;#034; The corresponding Sanskrit word is &lt;em&gt;dhyana&lt;/em&gt;. The Chinese word &lt;em&gt;Chan&lt;/em&gt; and the Japanese word &lt;a href=""&gt;//Zen//&lt;/a&gt; are both derived from &lt;em&gt;jhana&lt;/em&gt; or &lt;em&gt;dhyana&lt;/em&gt;. When we speak of jhana, we are referring to a state of profound concentration that results from focusing the mind on some mental or physical phenomenon. Traditional objects of meditation include the the breath, fixing the mind on a mental image or sound, or gazing at a colored disk (&lt;a href=""&gt;//kasina//&lt;/a&gt;), among many others. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;It is useful to differentiate between &lt;em&gt;samatha&lt;/em&gt; (Sanskrit &lt;em&gt;shamata&lt;/em&gt;) jhana and &lt;a href=""&gt; &lt;em&gt;vipasssana&lt;/em&gt; jhana&lt;/a&gt;. In the case of samatha jhana, the goal of the meditator is to enter and abide in various discrete states of profound [concentration]. There is no effort to investigate the true nature of the experience; rather, the exquisitely concentrated state itself is the goal of the exercise. Samatha jhana has the effect of suppressing negative mind states (&amp;#034;hindrances&amp;#034;) both during and for some time after the experience, so it is also seen as a support for vipassana meditation. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt; Vipassana jhana&lt;/a&gt;, depending on the speaker, can refer to either a state or a stage of meditation. As a state, a vipassana jhana corresponds directly to a similarly named samatha jhana, but with one important difference: in vipassana jhana, the point is not simply to abide in a pleasant state, but to penetrate to the true nature of the experience by carefully investigating the &lt;a href=""&gt;three characteristics&lt;/a&gt; of that experience. Jhanas, therefore, can be viewed as discrete strata of mind that can be accessed by either the samatha or vipassana technique. A skilled meditator can visit the various strata of mind at will, in any order, and either become absorbed in the jhana using pure samatha or investigate it via &lt;a href=""&gt;vipassana&lt;/a&gt;. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;When the phrase &amp;#034;&lt;a href=""&gt; vipassana jhana&lt;/a&gt;&amp;#034; is used to describe developmental stages of meditation rather than discrete states of mind, it refers to the territory that includes and brackets the corresponding samatha jhana. In other words, the 1st vipassana jhana is larger than the 1st samatha jhana and includes the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd &lt;a href=""&gt;//ñanas//&lt;/a&gt;, or insight knowledges. Because a meditator develops through the &lt;a href=""&gt;Progress of Insight&lt;/a&gt; in a predictable way, from beginning to end, it is possible to describe an individual&amp;#039;s progress by talking about &lt;a href=""&gt; vipassana jhanas&lt;/a&gt;. One might say, for example, that a yogi has passed through the 1st vipassana jhana, a process which might have taken days or weeks or years, depending on the individual, and is now working on the 2nd vipassana jhana. When speaking of jhana (the generic term for calmly abiding) and jhanas (discrete states or specific stages of development), it is good to be clear about which sense of the word is intended. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;The traditional list of four &lt;em&gt;rupa&lt;/em&gt; (material) and four &lt;em&gt;arupa&lt;/em&gt; (immaterial) jhanas is derived from the original &lt;a href=""&gt;Theravada&lt;/a&gt; texts and tradition, and is a very good and accurate description of the standard, natural states that one progresses through when learning to concentrate and get into the meditative states that concentration leads to. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;The first four states are known by their numbers, and thus are: &lt;/p&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;1st Jhana&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;2nd Jhana&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;3rd Jhana&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;4th Jhana&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;p&gt;The next four jhanas, the so-called immaterial (&lt;em&gt;arupa&lt;/em&gt;) jhanas, also known as &lt;a href=""&gt; The Formless Realms&lt;/a&gt;, arise from the &lt;a href=""&gt;4th Jhana&lt;/a&gt;. They are named for their overriding qualities, and are: &lt;/p&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;Boundless Space&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;Boundless Consciousness&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;Nothingness&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;Neither Perception Nor Yet Non-Perception&lt;/a&gt; or &lt;a href=""&gt;8th Jhana&lt;/a&gt; for short&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;p&gt;These are followed by jhanas not explicitly mentioned in the Theravada Texts but occur anyway, namely what we at the Dharma Overground community refer to as the Pureland Jhanas: &lt;/p&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;Pure Land One&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;Pure Land Two&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;p&gt;The Pureland jhanas are vipassana/samatha hybrids, and are only available to those advanced practitioners who have attained to the level of [anagami] or [arahat]. As such, they are useful landmarks of progress; a person who can access either of the Pureland jhanas is, by definition, at least an anagami. Traditionally, these states are referred to as part of the &lt;em&gt;suddhavasa&lt;/em&gt; or &amp;#034;pure abodes.&amp;#034; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;There is also an attainment that is related to these but is not quite a concentration state called &lt;a href=""&gt;Nirodha Samapatti&lt;/a&gt; aka &lt;a href=""&gt;The Cessation of Perception and Feeling&lt;/a&gt;, sometimes simply referred to as &lt;a href=""&gt; Nirodha&lt;/a&gt;, though Nirodha may also mean &lt;a href=""&gt;Fruition&lt;/a&gt;, so when speaking of these phenomena it is useful to specify which meaning is intended. Like the Pureland jhanas, Nirodha Samapatti is only available to those who have attained to at least the level of anagami. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;There are multiple axes on which jhanas may develop, see &lt;a href=""&gt;Jhana Development Axes&lt;/a&gt;. &lt;/p&gt;</summary> <dc:creator>Paul S</dc:creator> <dc:date>2013-05-12T14:59:49Z</dc:date> </entry> <entry> <title>The Basics of the DhO 1.8 (minor-edit)</title> <link rel="alternate" href="http://localhost/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/10303/The+Basics+of+the+DhO" /> <author> <name>Abhinav Goswami</name> </author> <id>http://localhost/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/10303/The+Basics+of+the+DhO</id> <updated>2013-04-06T21:54:42Z</updated> <published>2013-04-06T21:54:42Z</published> <summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;The DhO is based on the following principles, though this is not a complete list: &lt;/p&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;This community is dedicated to the support of hardcore spiritual and meditative practice, the notion that the traditional and other states and stages of the path can be attained and mastered, and that we can help each other to be great practitioners and people.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Discussions surrounding dharma practice should be open, practical, empowering, and straightforward whenever possible.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;While clearly some meditators know and can do more than others, this community emphasizes the spirit of mutually supportive adventurers and practitioners rather than rigid student-teacher relationships and strict hierarchy.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;On that front, &lt;a href=""&gt;claims to attainments&lt;/a&gt;, abilities or experiences are the personal responsibility of the person making the claim. Whether or not you want to be &amp;#034;out&amp;#034; about your accomplishments is your choice. Thus, do not &amp;#034;out&amp;#034; people who don&amp;#039;t want to be, and on the other hand, realize that this site is about accomplishments, and there are many accomplished members of the DhO, though whether or not all claims are completely accurate is subject to debate.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;There are many axes of development, and we all progress along them differently and at different rates. Do not assume that development along one axes or knowledge of some aspect of things implies development along any other axis.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Whenever possible, members should differentiate between statements that are based on personal experience, theory or hearsay, with personal experience obviously preferred.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;People should avoid flame wars and needlessly disrespectful posts, and while controversy is normal and inevitable, members should work to try to clarify differences and see what positive aspects can come from the discussion rather than less mature and productive forms of communication.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;While this community emphasizes openness and freedom of expression, obviously there will be moderators and sometimes they will need to act. If your the deletion or editing of your post seems arbitrary or unfair, please contact the administrators to discuss this.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;At the moment, the &lt;a href=""&gt;DhO Leadership&lt;/a&gt; and roles of the DhO are determined by the founder, namely &lt;a href=""&gt;Daniel Ingram&lt;/a&gt;. If you have questions about who has what role and why, contact him.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;</summary> <dc:creator>Abhinav Goswami</dc:creator> <dc:date>2013-04-06T21:54:42Z</dc:date> </entry> <entry> <title>Southern Dharma Retreat Center 1.4 (minor-edit)</title> <link rel="alternate" href="http://localhost/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/10303/Southern+Dharma+Retreat+Center" /> <author> <name>Abingdon .</name> </author> <id>http://localhost/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/10303/Southern+Dharma+Retreat+Center</id> <updated>2013-03-26T11:02:08Z</updated> <published>2013-03-26T11:02:08Z</published> <summary type="html">&lt;h2 id="section-Southern+Dharma+Retreat+Center-Southern+Dharma+Retreat+Center"&gt;Southern Dharma Retreat Center&lt;a class="hashlink" href="#section-Southern+Dharma+Retreat+Center-Southern+Dharma+Retreat+Center"&gt;#&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h2&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Address:&lt;/strong&gt; 1661 West Road, Hot Springs, NC 28743 (located near Asheville, NC near the border of North Carolina and Tennessee)&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Phone Number:&lt;/strong&gt; 828-622-7112&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Website:&lt;/strong&gt; www.southerndharma.org&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Contact Email:&lt;/strong&gt; southerndharma@earthlink.net&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Tradition(s):&lt;/strong&gt; Eclectic, but includes retreats in the: Zen, Theravada, Tibetan, Thich Naht Hahn, Christian, &amp;amp; Sufi traditions. Several vipassana retreats are led there each year.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Technique(s):&lt;/strong&gt; see above for an idea of all the different kinds of practices that are taught there.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Teacher(s):&lt;/strong&gt; varies quite a bit depending on retreat&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Cost:&lt;/strong&gt; varies depending on retreat length, but is around $400 - $500 for a week-long retreat. Scholarships are also available. &lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Accommodations:&lt;/strong&gt; Accommodations are either in a large shared dorm at the top of the main building or in shared rooms. Whether you get a room or the big dorm seems to depend on which gender predominates on the retreat you&amp;#039;re on. The group with the most participants gets thrown together up in the loft area. &lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Facilities:&lt;/strong&gt; The facilities comprise of two main buildings, one which includes sleeping quarters, the kitchen, dining area, a small lounge area, and some of the retreat center&amp;#039;s offices. The other building is the meditation hall, which has a porch surrounding the entirety of the hall, that is great for walking meditation. There are several other small buildings on the property, including the teachers cabin. &lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Physical Setting:&lt;/strong&gt; The retreat center is set in an isolated, and beautiful part of the Appalachian mountains in the Western part of North Carolina. The wildlife there is absolutely stunning--I should know cause I grew up and lived only 15 minutes from the retreat center, though I didn&amp;#039;t know about it. :)&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Food (Vegetarian&lt;/strong&gt; Food is all vegetarian with the most substantial meal for lunch. Dinner is often a soup with bread and some other stuff. Very good food. &lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Retreat Length(s):&lt;/strong&gt; Retreat range from weekend retreats to just over a week in length. &lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Typical Schedule:&lt;/strong&gt; varies depending on teacher and tradition. Most retreats though are held in silence. &lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Issues of Taboos around attainment, real practice, disclosing insights, etc.:&lt;/strong&gt; There are so many traditions coming through this joint, that it was a little hard to feel out the taboos. A lot of it will probably depend on the teacher(s) that you&amp;#039;re sitting with.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Issues of Rites/Rituals:&lt;/strong&gt; Again, this is tradition and teacher dependent.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Issues of Proper Dress:&lt;/strong&gt; Not many limitations on the retreats I&amp;#039;ve done.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Issues of Etiquette:&lt;/strong&gt; Again, this is tradition and teacher dependent. &lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Issues of Language:&lt;/strong&gt; All teachers seem to speak English as their primary language. &lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Health Issues:&lt;/strong&gt; Very clean and safe.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Logistical Issues:&lt;/strong&gt; Unless you live in the Southeast, it&amp;#039;s pretty challenging to get to this center. You&amp;#039;d have to fly into either Charlotte, NC or Raleigh, NC and take a long taxi from one of those places. If you live within driving distance that would probably be easier. &lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Strengths:&lt;/strong&gt; Some good teachers come through here, the meditation hall if good, food is very good, and the natural setting is stunning. All in all it can be a great place to come practice, especially if you live nearby. &lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Weaknesses:&lt;/strong&gt; It&amp;#039;s remote location makes it less than ideal for people living more than a few hours away. Also the lack of any longer retreats doesn&amp;#039;t make it a good place to do extended practice. The extreme eclecticism of the place can also be a little annoying to some. :)&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Worthy of recommendation on the Dharma Overground?:&lt;/strong&gt; If you live near Western North Carolina and want to do an introductory kind of retreat this is a great place to go. A few of my first retreats were here, and they were very useful. For the practitioner who wants to go deeper with vipassana though, I&amp;#039;d have to recommend some of the other centers (Spirit Rock, IMS, the Forest Refuge, etc.) as being much better for practice.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;</summary> <dc:creator>Abingdon .</dc:creator> <dc:date>2013-03-26T11:02:08Z</dc:date> </entry> <entry> <title>Actual Freedom 1.8 (minor-edit)</title> <link rel="alternate" href="http://localhost/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/10303/Actual+Freedom" /> <author> <name>Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem</name> </author> <id>http://localhost/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/10303/Actual+Freedom</id> <updated>2013-01-20T18:54:32Z</updated> <published>2013-01-20T18:54:32Z</published> <summary type="html">&lt;h2&gt;&lt;tableofcontents&gt; The actualism method &lt;/tableofcontents&gt;&lt;/h2&gt; &lt;p&gt;The practice of actualism is intended to orient one towards a condition that is increasingly happy and harmless and incrementally free of malice and sorrow. The recommended way to conduct this practice is to ask oneself, each moment again, '&lt;i&gt;how am i experiencing this moment of being alive?&lt;/i&gt;' with the utmost sincerity and dedication, as a vital interest in the '&lt;i&gt;how&lt;/i&gt;' of experience (in addition to the '&lt;em&gt;what&lt;/em&gt;') is what allows one to take charge of one's life to the extent that one, by virtue of choice moment and moment again, can cease being harmful and unhappy entirely, delight in one's own existence and in one's surroundings continuously, and sometimes pop through to a condition in which one's being ceases (or is in abeyance) completely, and malice and sorrow, far from having no foothold, simply cannot arise.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Knowing this condition, called a pure consciousness experience (or &lt;strong&gt;PCE&lt;/strong&gt;, for short), is important because not only does it reveal the end goal, but its memory also orients one very automatically, as well as reveals something relevant to one's endeavour in the here and now. Keeping at the brink of this condition of purity, as closely as one can while still remaining a feeling being, is (1) considered to be the most likely way to induce it permanently, and (2) a really cool way to live life and experience this moment of it. &lt;meta charset="utf-8"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;a name="thread1note" href="#thread1"&gt;[1]&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/sup&gt; &lt;/meta&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;h2&gt;&lt;tableofcontents&gt; A How-to &lt;/tableofcontents&gt;&lt;/h2&gt; &lt;p&gt;&lt;tableofcontents&gt; The following few paragraphs concisely describe the actualism method:&lt;sup&gt;&lt;a href="#thismoment"&gt;[2]&lt;/a&gt;&lt;a name="thismomentnote"&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&amp;nbsp; &lt;/tableofcontents&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;It is essential for success to grasp the fact that this is your only moment of being alive. The past, although it did happen, is not actual now. The future, though it will happen, is not actual now. Only now is actual. Yesterday&amp;rsquo;s happiness and harmlessness does not mean a thing if one is miserable and malicious now ... and a hoped-for happiness and harmlessness tomorrow is to but waste this moment of being alive in waiting. All you get by waiting is more waiting. Thus any &amp;lsquo;change&amp;rsquo; can only happen now. The jumping in point is always here ... it is at this moment in time and this place in space. Thus, if you miss it this time around, hey presto ... you have another chance immediately. Life is excellent at providing opportunities like this.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;What &amp;lsquo;I&amp;rsquo; did, all those years ago, was to devise a remarkably effective method of ridding this body of &amp;lsquo;me&amp;rsquo; (I know that methods are to be actively discouraged, in some people&amp;rsquo;s eyes, but this one worked). It takes some doing to start off with, but as success after success starts to multiply exponentially, it becomes automatic to have this question running as an on-going thing (as a non-verbal attitude towards life ... a wordless approach each moment again) because it delivers the goods right here and now ... not off into some indeterminate future. Plus the successes are repeatable &amp;ndash; almost on demand &amp;ndash; and thus satisfies the &amp;lsquo;scientific method&amp;rsquo;. &amp;lsquo;I&amp;rsquo; asked myself, each moment again: &amp;lsquo;How am I experiencing this moment of being alive&amp;rsquo;?&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;As one knows from the pure consciousness experiences (PCE&amp;rsquo;s), which are moments of perfection everybody has at some stage in their life, that it is possible to experience this moment in time and this place in space as perfection personified, &amp;lsquo;I&amp;rsquo; set the minimum standard of experience for myself: feeling good. If &amp;lsquo;I&amp;rsquo; am not feeling good then &amp;lsquo;I&amp;rsquo; have something to look at to find out why. What has happened, between the last time &amp;lsquo;I&amp;rsquo; felt good and now? When did &amp;lsquo;I&amp;rsquo; feel good last? Five minutes ago? Five hours ago? What happened to end those felicitous feelings? Ahh ... yes: &amp;lsquo;He said that and I ...&amp;rsquo;. Or: &amp;lsquo;She didn&amp;rsquo;t do this and I ...&amp;rsquo;. Or: &amp;lsquo;What I wanted was ...&amp;rsquo;. Or: &amp;lsquo;I didn&amp;rsquo;t do ...&amp;rsquo;. And so on and so on ... one does not have to trace back into one&amp;rsquo;s childhood ... usually no more than yesterday afternoon at the most (&amp;lsquo;feeling good&amp;rsquo; is an unambiguous term &amp;ndash; it is a general sense of well-being &amp;ndash; and if anyone wants to argue about what feeling good means ... then do not even bother trying to do this at all).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;Once the specific moment of ceasing to feel good is pin-pointed, and the silliness of having such an incident as that (no matter what it is) take away one&amp;rsquo;s enjoyment and appreciation of this only moment of being alive is seen for what it is &amp;ndash; usually some habitual reactive response &amp;ndash; one is once more feeling good ... but with a pin-pointed cue to watch out for next time so as to not have that trigger off yet another bout of the same-old same-old. This is called nipping it in the bud before it gets out of hand ... with application and diligence and patience and perseverance one soon gets the knack of this and more and more time is spent enjoying and appreciating this moment of being alive. And, of course, once one does get the knack of this, one up-levels &amp;lsquo;feeling good&amp;rsquo;, as a bottom line each moment again, to &amp;lsquo;feeling happy and harmless&amp;rsquo; ... and after that to &amp;lsquo;feeling perfect&amp;rsquo;.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;The more one enjoys and appreciates being just here right now &amp;ndash; to the point of excellence being the norm &amp;ndash; the greater the likelihood of a PCE happening ... a grim and/or glum person has no chance whatsoever of allowing the magical event, which indubitably shows where everyone has being going awry, to occur. Plus any analysing and/or psychologising and/or philosophising whilst one is in the grip of debilitating feelings usually does not achieve much (other than spiralling around and around in varying degrees of despair and despondency or whatever) anyway.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;The wide and wondrous path to an actual freedom from the human condition is marked by enjoyment and appreciation &amp;ndash; the sheer delight of being as happy and harmless as is humanly possible whilst remaining a &amp;lsquo;self&amp;rsquo; &amp;ndash; and the slightest diminishment of such felicity is a warning signal (a flashing red light as it were) that one has inadvertently wandered off the way.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;One is thus soon back on track ... and all because of everyday events.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;h3&gt;&lt;tableofcontents&gt; Footnotes &lt;/tableofcontents&gt;&lt;/h3&gt; &lt;p&gt;&lt;tableofcontents&gt; &lt;a href="#thread1note"&gt;[1]&lt;/a&gt;&lt;a name="thread1"&gt;&lt;/a&gt; The two introductory paragraphs are formatted from &lt;a href="http://dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/100402#_19_message_100489"&gt;this thread&lt;/a&gt; on the DhO. &amp;nbsp; &lt;/tableofcontents&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;&lt;tableofcontents&gt; &lt;a href="#thismomentnote"&gt;[2]&lt;/a&gt;&lt;a name="thismoment"&gt;&lt;/a&gt; This section is an excerpt of the article &lt;a href="http://actualfreedom.com.au/richard/articles/thismomentofbeingalive.htm"&gt;This Moment of Being Alive&lt;/a&gt;, which is the copyright of the Actual Freedom trust, and which can be read in full on their website, including useful elucidatory footnotes (omitted here for formatting reasons).&lt;/tableofcontents&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</summary> <dc:creator>Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem</dc:creator> <dc:date>2013-01-20T18:54:32Z</dc:date> </entry> <entry> <title>DhO Acronyms 1.0</title> <link rel="alternate" href="http://localhost/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/10303/DhO+Acronyms" /> <author> <name>Daniel M. Ingram</name> </author> <id>http://localhost/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/10303/DhO+Acronyms</id> <updated>2013-01-19T03:13:28Z</updated> <published>2013-01-19T03:13:28Z</published> <summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Places/people/things: DhO: the Dharma Overground (this forum) IMS: Insight Meditation Society, vipassana retreat centre in Massachusetts, USA KFD: Kenneth Folk Dharma, pragmatic dharma forum emphasising Kenneth Folk&amp;#039;s &amp;#039;Three Gear Transmission&amp;#039; approach. Also Kenneth&amp;#039;s personal website &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Vipassana-related: 1st Path/2nd Path/3rd Path/4th Path: Usually refer to attainments as described in MCTB here. 3Cs: the Three Characteristics, also the insight stage 4NTs: the Four Noble Truths [1] [2] A&amp;amp;P: The Arising &amp;amp; Passing Away (insight stage) [1] [2] DO - Dependent Origination [1] [2 (pdf)] DN: the Dark Night (the insight stages) EQ: Equanimity (the insight stage) MCTB: Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha, Daniel Ingram&amp;#039;s book MCTB 2: Working title for project to update and expand on MCTB with assistance of DhO members. Also called &amp;#039;Remastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha&amp;#039; NS: Nirodha Samapatti, &amp;#039;The Cessation of Perception and Feeling&amp;#039; (temporary attainment) [1] [2] SE: Stream Entry (aka 1st Path)[1] [2] [3] &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Other types of meditation: 6Rs: Technique taught at dhammasukha.org: Recognize, Release, Relax, Re-smile, Return, Repeat MBSR: Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction TM: Transcendental Meditation &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Actualism-related: AF: Actual Freedom [1] [2] [3] AFT: the Actual Freedom Trust, usually used to refer to the Actual Freedom Trust website EE: Excellence Experience HAIETMOBA : How Am I Experiencing This Moment Of Being Alive (&amp;#034;Note: asking how one is experiencing this moment of being alive is not the actualism method; consistently enjoying and appreciating this moment of being alive is what the actualism method is&amp;#034;) PCE: Pure Consciousness Experience [1] [2] [3] VF: Virtual Freedom &lt;/p&gt;</summary> <dc:creator>Daniel M. Ingram</dc:creator> <dc:date>2013-01-19T03:13:28Z</dc:date> </entry> <entry> <title>Best of the DhO 3.2 (minor-edit)</title> <link rel="alternate" href="http://localhost/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/10303/Best+of+the+DhO" /> <author> <name>Daniel M. Ingram</name> </author> <id>http://localhost/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/10303/Best+of+the+DhO</id> <updated>2013-01-11T08:18:29Z</updated> <published>2013-01-11T08:18:29Z</published> <summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Here are some of the best of the discussions on the DhO: &lt;/p&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/98873 "&gt; The Idiots Guide to Dharma Diagnosis&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/98527?_19_redirect=%2Fweb%2Fguest%2Fdiscussion%2F-%2Fmessage_boards%2Fsearch%3F_19_redirect%3D%252Fweb%252Fguest%252Fdiscussion%26_19_breadcrumbsCategoryId%3D0%26_19_searchCategoryIds%3D0%26_19_keywords%3Dtoxic "&gt; Toxic Evangelism, Hardcore Dharma and Relationships&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/90332?_19_redirect=%2Fweb%2Fguest%2Fdiscussion%2F-%2Fmessage_boards%2Fsearch%3F_19_redirect%3D%252Fweb%252Fguest%252Fdiscussion%26_19_breadcrumbsCategoryId%3D0%26_19_breadcrumbsMessageId%3D0%26_19_searchCategoryId%3D0%26_19_searchCategoryIds%3D0%26_19_threadId%3D0%26_19_keywords%3Dbeginner%2Bfollows%26_19_advancedSearch%3Dfalse%26_19_andOperator%3Dtrue%26_19_delta%3D75 "&gt; A Novice Meditator Follows Instructions&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/122865 "&gt; Beginning Practice through Stream Entry&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/94387 "&gt; Kamalashila&amp;#039;s Map&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/105357 "&gt; Bipolar Disorder and the Cycles of Insight&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/2472907 "&gt; The Hierarchy of Vipassana Practice&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/1296955 "&gt; Theravada Reading Resources by Ian And&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/751591 "&gt; Idling Overhead Helicopter Rotor&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/90067#_19_message_129816 "&gt; Practical Stuff on AF&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=""&gt;Hurricane Ranch DhO First Gathering Transcript&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/3814120 "&gt; Bare Attention and its Uses&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;</summary> <dc:creator>Daniel M. Ingram</dc:creator> <dc:date>2013-01-11T08:18:29Z</dc:date> </entry> <entry> <title>Hurricane Ranch DhO First Gathering Transcript 1.0</title> <link rel="alternate" href="http://localhost/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/10303/Hurricane+Ranch+DhO+First+Gathering+Transcript" /> <author> <name>Daniel M. Ingram</name> </author> <id>http://localhost/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/10303/Hurricane+Ranch+DhO+First+Gathering+Transcript</id> <updated>2013-01-11T07:34:41Z</updated> <published>2013-01-11T07:34:41Z</published> <summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Hurricane Ranch Discussion, February 2009 &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;“In February of 2009, I invited several people to my house in Alabama, aka Hurricane Ranch, for a long weekend of discussion, sharing, and practice. Included in this group were several members of the Dharma Overground, as well as some older dharma buddies. Fortunately, while we were having tons of great dharma discussions we recorded one of them and it is available here for download. In this discussion we covered several different topics, but the main theme of the talk was ‘Getting it Done versus Doing It.’ Participating in this conversation were Hokai Sobol, Kenneth Folk, Vince Horn, Tarin Greco, and myself.” &amp;#x2013;Daniel Ingram &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI = Daniel Ingram HS = Hokai Sobol KF = Kenneth Folk TG = Tarin Greco VH = Vince Horn &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Getting it done or simply doing it. You know? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: What do you mean when you say that? Getting it done versus doing it? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: You know, doing it is what most Buddhists do. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Huh. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: They’re doing it. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: But they’re not getting it done. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Right. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Right? You know, you can’t say they’re not doing it. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Right. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Because they’re doing it. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah. They’re doing something. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: They’re doing something … [laughter] … and some of it is good. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: And some of it is not good. And some of it is, like, empty. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Lacking substance. Kind of going through the motions, you know? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: But what are the essential points of, through which doing it becomes getting it done? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: You mean finishing the damn thing. Really finishing it? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Not necessarily finishing it. You know, getting it going. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: Escape velocity. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Yeah. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah. That’s it. It could be Arising &amp;amp; Passing Away. It could be Stream-Entry. It could be Arhat. It could be Siddha. It could be whatever. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Whatever. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah. Sure. But a really crankin’ thing. Yeah. It would be interesting to even hear what the Shingon take on that was, because I’m guessing we would say different things given that quest. Because even Shingon&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: We have a&amp;#x2014;well, we should start this. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: We started. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: We started. Well then… [rings bell] … [laughter] … This is Round One! &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: I had something to say about this. [laughter] Okay, I have something to say about this. From a very mechanistic point of view of settin’ em up and knockin’ em down … &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Alright … alright … &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: Alright. Settin’ em up and knockin’ em down. There are two things that have to be done. You have to access a finite number of strata of mind and penetrate each of those strata of mind. And the way I know how to do this is via the vipassana technique. So you have to &amp;#x2013; you can think of this thinking of a chakra model, chakras being these nexes of energy. So you put the mind at the level of one of these nexes of energy, and you deconstruct it by finding what about that experience when the mind is aligned at that frequency&amp;#x2014;what changes? And if you can see the change, you’ve knocked it down, and you will very naturally go on to the next strata of mind, which you can see through. And if you do this enough times&amp;#x2014;settin’ em up and knockin’ em down&amp;#x2014;the thing is done. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Which would be the progressive, essentially a progressive, work-based, stage-based, model-based&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: Exactly. The developmental model. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: The developmental model. Right. As opposed to the whatever. Which is interesting to hear you dub the developmental model. You know what I mean. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: It’s very easy to talk about the developmental model. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: That’s a plain fact. Yes. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: I could talk about realization, but there wouldn’t really be very much to say about it. So for the time being, let’s talk about the developmental model. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah, or, what I would say, go through the ñanas, which are essentially part of the jhanas. Seeing the three characteristics, which would be one way. But the Shingon way is going to look entirely different, right? Essentially you’re going to do whatever sets of practices&amp;#x2014;right? You would do a specific set of things probably in a specific order without expecting much results and just do those until you could either see or visualize or perceive or achieve whatever the instruction was. And then at some point, essentially, by doing that, something would finally pop. Is that right? I mean, essentially it’s going to be something like that, right? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: I don’t know. What you’re presenting is more like a koan, right? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Meaning? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Like pumping the koan. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Even if you were doing something more esoteric, taking some letter or visualizing it at some chakra, and then adding something to it and doing it … to some degree of mastery where you actually have that experience as described. Isn’t that… &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Whatever the detail of the actual technique, the basic idea in Shingon is to take what you do&amp;#x2014;meaning some physical action or non-action&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Mahamudra. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Physical. Just mudra. That’s what you do. And then taking what you say and taking what you mean&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Which would be mantra and view or visualization… &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: &amp;#x2014;Or visualization. So that would be like mudra, mantra, and visualization, meaning what you do, what you say, and what you mean should be aligned.&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Right. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: &amp;#x2014;To a degree where it becomes impossible to discern one from the other. Alright? That’s the definition of concentration in Shingon. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Interesting. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: That’s the basic definition of concentration. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: That sounds like a good, solid standard. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: That’s concentration. So basically you have certain&amp;#x2014;it’s not about the position of your fingers. It’s about the felt thing. So it’s not&amp;#x2014;if you take the fist, it’s not about doing the fist, it’s about feeling the fistness in the fist. That, those sensations, and saying for example “ah”, that voice and thinking for example “this” for example &amp;#x2013; those three should be done and attended to as one and fused to a point of non-discernment. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Which is essentially 4th jhana from my point of view. That’s 4th jhana. You get 4th jhana, those are aligned in one field as a coherent entity. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: As one. As one. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: You can still analyze, but you don’t fall into that temptation. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Right. Sure. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: You stay before analyzing them. And that’s the starting point. From there you go into a receptive mode. Okay? And the actual instruction is to receive these three activities as if they were done by a larger entity. Okay. Which traditionally is called the Buddha, which Japanese understand as everything. So it’s an action of everything which you are receiving through the only medium you have to receive&amp;#x2014;that’s your body, your voice, and your mind. But once you are in a state of concentration, you go into the mode of grace. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: Would you say that’s the shift between samatha and vipassana? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Uhh, that’s the edge between samatha and vipassana. The grace is the edge. You have less samatha, but it’s not yet vipassana. There is a mid-period between the two. So first you have&amp;#x2014;we talk about three powers: the virtue of my own effort, the grace of the Buddha’s, and the power of the universe or reality. The power of reality is the vipassana mode. Reality itself. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah. Obviously. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: So first you put in the effort to develop the concentration, which is the unity of the three. Then you go into the receptive mode. You let go of the effort. Of course you continue, but you let go of the idea of the meditator. You allow the grace&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: You allow the field to do what it does. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: &amp;#x2014;And then the third dimension comes into being. And that’s the reality itself starts to show up. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Right. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: As you fuse the effort and receptivity&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Ahhh, there you go. Now those are becoming two of the same things, so that once subject is becoming part of the field&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: First you push, then you come back by receiving, and then you fuse those two. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: That’s very good. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: And then you stop. Sort of. And that’s when the thing becomes clear. That’s when what was the background becomes the foreground. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Sure. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: What is always the background of whatever happens in your personal experience suddenly becomes the foreground of your experience. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: Okay. By background, this is the knowing mind? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Actually, I’ve never said this before, I realize now. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: So background is the aspect of knowing? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Yeah. Yeah. We would define it as gñāna which in Pali is ñana. Yeah. We would define it as wisdom, as primordial wisdom. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: It sounds like what I call the No Dog. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Yeah? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: Yeah. Which I also think of as the trans-jhanic state. So if you put that in the foreground, and knowing knows itself&amp;#x2014;so one good thing to say about this is “it knows itself”, it’s not Hokai that knows it&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: No. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: &amp;#x2014;But something else could be going on in the background&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Because Hokai is known through that, simultaneously. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: &amp;#x2014;And this knowing has no stake in what happens or does not happen to Hokai. Hokai could live or die, but this knowing has no stake in that. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Exactly. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: And that’s the No Dog. It has no dog in this fight. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Yeah. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: That’s interesting. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: And at that point&amp;#x2014;so this is now the foreground. So what’s going on in the background is whatever is going on. In other words, at that point, you might choose to notice the conversation going around you, or you might choose to notice what’s naturally, what your body and mind are naturally doing in the background. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Yeah, but in the context of Shingon practice, a setting is provided&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: Yes. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: &amp;#x2014;as the foreground. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: A specific setting. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: A very specific setting which is intentionally constructed in a way to provide the vehicle for the No Dog. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: And almost a pre-programming, it sounds like. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Sort of. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Because there is pre-programming &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: It’s structured in such a way to provide a ready-made situation which enables you to bring the background again into the foreground and to merge the two. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah. So that’s when it’s trying to sync. Now, do they ever talk about three characteristics, or it’s just a practice, and you never emphasize impermanence, or no-self, or&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Three characteristics are presented in Japanese as netsu which means fire. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Huh. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Like the experience of … I think the Indians say tapas? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Mm hm. Heat. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Heat. So three characteristics are presented in the context of heat. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Like energy. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: No, like intensity. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Oh. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Like when practice generates intensity, that’s when the three characteristics show up. Naturally. They become self-apparent in a way. The obstacles drop. That’s the measure of heat. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: Which seems to line up with how being in the three characteristics actually feels, heat being&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Like burning away. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: I mean, that’s more of the ñana, the third and fourth&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;TG: That’s the definition of jhana. Not just absorption but also burning. Burning away. It comes from India. Where he’s talking about vipassana jhana here. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Like burning the defilements? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;TG: Burning the hindrances. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Burning the hindrances. Yeah. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;TG: The “hindrances”, in quotation marks, gone. Perception of three characteristics, right there. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Clear. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;TG: Of its own accord. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Of its own accord. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: I’m just gonna say, in the Shambala practice, which is the Trongyam Trungpa thing, they had a really weird vipassana practice. You just kind of contemplate, you just say to yourself after each samatha, “impermanence” And that’s pretty much it. You don’t really do anything. It’s not an active thing. You kind of just drop in a thought about impermanence. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Maybe they do some serious samatha. If you’re got your samatha stuff really together&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Just a gentle push in this direction&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: And if you can really get the right direction and let go of the samatha. Because the problem is, you can be in the trap, because the samatha is so nice, the spaciousness of mind is so good, or the bliss or the quietness or the whatever cool jhanic quality you’ve just contemplated is so good, that you get people stuck there and they won’t let go of it. But if you could somehow convince these people with the very concentrated mind to just let the thing ring or let go of it and turn toward wisdom or whatever, I mean, that is traditional instructions. It’s not like that can’t be powerful. You know, because if you really get your 4th jhana trip together, you can go where you want. Know what I mean? The mind will go where you want it to go if you really want to go there. It is wieldy and made malleable. The vipassana people always think of that as the high stakes way to play the game. You’re building up something that’s very impressive but very hard to let go of. Know what I mean? So vipassana always looks at the way more samatha-y traditions and goes [sharp air intake] yeah but. And then the down side of that is friggin’ busting it out in harsh vibrations and just hard technique without all the props and comfort and early perks of samatha is HARD. So in terms of a more dry technique&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: Dry technique meaning…? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Like straight noting practice, straight three characteristics. Or even if you get into real heavy sort of what I might call jhanic states but they’re vipassana so they’re really edgy and vibratory usually until you get to 4th. Because 3rd is so hard, and 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10 are so hard… &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: Okay. So “dry” because you don’t have the juice, you don’t have the lubrication of&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: &amp;#x2014;the sweet stuff&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: &amp;#x2014;the lubrication of the concentrated state which frankly makes it much more pleasant. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Well even if you’re concentrated, I mean, you can be concentrated on harsh vibrations with astounding precision and yet still have it suck. You know what I mean? Because even though it’s ridiculously concentrated [makes vibration sounds] &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: Khanika-samadhi. Momentary concentration. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Yeah. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Right. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: Okay, so, khanika-samadhi is to be concentrated on those changing phenomena. For example, you could be concentrating on a vibration&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Right. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: &amp;#x2014;as it changes, and you can be very one-pointed on that, but this is not samatha. So you’re not getting the benefit of the juice. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Right. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: So it’s interesting that, as you say, high-stakes practice is using jhana as a vehicle and then first accessing via the samatha technique and then seeing through it via the vipassana technique&amp;#x2014;you could as easily say that the dry technique is a high-stakes practice. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Because people run. Because it’s too hard, too easy, too disconcerting. Yeah. That’s the paradox. And there’s always this debate. The Theravada world is constantly debating this. If you see the Sri Lankans versus the Burmese, the Sri Lankans are all about jhana first: mastering the jhanas and then going on to vipassana. And then, you know, you end up with all these people who are really good jhana masters, and they just kinda space out, or they just cultivate colors, and they can’t let go of it, or they do, whatever, but they’ve got impressive jhana skills, but they can’t land insight, because they’re too attached to that. It’s too nice, it’s too cool, it’s too fun. They can’t shake, because then that violates or disrupts or does something to their nice jhana trip. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: We keep returning to this thing that there are two things necessary: you have to access the stratum of mind&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Okay. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: &amp;#x2014;or the frequency&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Okay. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: &amp;#x2014;and you have to penetrate it. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Right. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: If either of those things isn’t present, then no progress is made on the vertical access of this linear model we’re looking to make progress through insight levels. Both of these things have to be present. You can err in either direction. You can do vipassana very well, but if you don’t access the strata of mind, it does you no good. You make no progress. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: You get edgy. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: And, you can access the strata of mind, but if you don’t penetrate them, nothing happens. These things have to be in balance. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: So you’re essentially going samatha first from the Theravada model point of view. It’s essentially something like samatha first and then allowing that to ring to see true nature of that state without the holding tight to the objects. Something like that. Is that about… no … is that fair? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Yeah. Though it’s never&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: It’s not presented that way. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: &amp;#x2014;It’s never presented apart. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: The technique you’re doing, Hokai, the Shingon technique ensures the object will be penetrated. Is that correct? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Yes. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: Aha. Just make it clear: what aspect of this practice ensures that this penetration of the object occurs? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: This is a tricky question. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: [laughs] It’s a great question. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Not a trick question, a tricky question, because you have to be careful. Once you set the proper conditions for realizing a certain concentrative state, which is defined as bringing the three together as one&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: &amp;#x2014;which I would term 4th jhana&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: &amp;#x2014;Right. Once that happens, you are invited to … so, you are one with that state then. That’s the definition of a jhanic state. You are not observing it. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: Good. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: You are it. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: This is samatha. Okay. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: That’s the distinction. You are it. You are then encouraged to be observed in that state. It is not said by what. That’s the grace moment. You invite another observing point there. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Mmm. That’s heavy. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: You invite another observing point. The way this is done, specifically, is a devotional shift. Not devotional in an emotional sense, but devotional in a perspectival sense. Once you feel you are completely aligned … and how do you know you’re aligned? There is no comment to what you are doing. Because you either comment your speech with your body, or you comment your body and your speech with your mind, or you comment your mind and your body with your speech. Right? That’s what we do anyway. So, once there’s no comment, and the three things are going on, and there’s no commenting between them, they are aligned, then you are encouraged or reminded specifically, because if you follow certain Saddana texts, you come to a point where the text reminds you to include a vaster observer&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Nice. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: &amp;#x2014;on the achieved state. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: That’s good. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: So that ensures somehow letting go of the state with which you are one while remaining immersed in it, continuing this alignment, maintaining the alignment, but inviting a vaster observer to observe the prevailing state. So that would be a shift from samatha, but not yet vipassana. And then&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah, that’s almost like adding formless realms or something. Infinite consciousness. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: And then you are invited to give up the distinction between the state which you are and the observer observing it … And that would be vipassana. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Because you are neither the state nor the separate observer remaining which can observe the state. And that would be penetrating the state. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: And can you give an example of what the object looks like at that point? In other words, is the object, does it appear solid, or is it a vibratory phenomenon at that point? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Or 3-D luminous, or all-encompassing, or… &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: The total object, or the field of experience, reveals three features or three characteristics. These three characteristics are: one, the object is spacious, meaning unimpeding&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: Unimpeded? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: &amp;#x2014;Not unimpeded, unimpeding. Anything arising does not impede or impose on anything else arising. So everything is spacious. The second characteristic coincides with luminous, because everything is aware. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: 4th jhana. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Where it is. Everything is aware. And the third characteristic is, there are waves between these first two. There are waves between spaciousness of everything arising and awareness of everything arising. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: That’s beautiful. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: And these waves are perceived as waves? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: These waves are perceived as resonance between space and awareness. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Which I would call “formations”. That would be my technical word for that level of seeing things. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: The total perception of these three would be that space, which is often equated with emptiness, and awareness, which is often equated with wisdom recognizing emptiness, are not fixed. This is going beyond emptiness first and then going beyond perception of emptiness. That’s why you have to perceive the wave-like nature of both. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: And is this related to the traditional teaching of impermanence? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Yes. It is the more profound meaning of impermanence. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: It’s the 4th jhana meaning. Because at that point, it’s the same thing when I was talking about feeling the vibrations of this, this, and that as the sort of awareness and form trying to synchronize, and feeling those waves, you know, coming through. It’s very heavy no-self characteristic and impermanence characteristic. It doesn’t have suffering in there, but in the 4th jhana, that high level, if you’ve really got that strong, there’s really not that much suffering, so that might always be like … it would almost be a little trickier. So it’s really got the two characteristics&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: &amp;#x2014;On a barely, on a religious level, a person would sit down and go through the motions of the ritual and repeat to himself, I am doing these things with a sense of gratitude, with a sense of devotion, with a sense of determination, and the Buddhas are witnessing my sincere effort, and the grace of their kind gaze shines upon my feeble attempts&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: [laughs] &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: &amp;#x2014;to realize awareness. Therefore, having done that, and having been seen doing that, reality dawns upon me. Everything IS just as it is. Something like that would be pronounced. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: That’s nice. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Again and again and again. As I said, encouraging you to first put the effort, bring your actions together, enter a state of stable concentration, renounce remaining in that state, and allowing that state to be observed from an unfirm vantage point, slightly expanding. Is that the movement? I think that’s how it feels. Slightly expanding from the state. And then letting the expansion and the previous state simply drop. Stopping it. You would call it penetrating the state. Stopping the conservationist movement of maintaining the state, and yet not destroying it, not messing it up. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: But you’re seeing through the apparent solidity of it. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Yes, yes. Renouncing the solidity. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: I have a question. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Please. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: I’m wondering how this relates to what you were describing&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;TG: Is this the entrance, then, to fruition? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Well, that’s it! &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: If you could do that that way, you would be teetering on the brink of stream-entry. [all talking at once] It’s really high equanimity by the time he’s talking about that kind of stuff. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: So given that, my question is, in that practice, they’re going straight there in the jhanic sense, and then they’re switching to vipassana and bypassing the more vibratory qualities of the earlier jhanas by having gone through them in a samatha way. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: What you’re describing, as I understand it&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: You are doing it with whatever jhanic degree you have. You are not&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: So you don’t just keep doing the samatha until it’s&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: No, no. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: Every time you sit, you go through those phases. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: For someone, a weak jhanic state will probably be sufficient. For someone else, a stronger, harder jhanic state will be necessary. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: So what he’s describing is the integrated package of both accessing and penetrating the object at any stratum of mind, and as he does that, the meditator will continue to progress through the strata of mind until they’re all penetrated. And it’s important to note that this is a finite process. It’s not infinite regress. There are a finite number of strata of mind. When they’re all accessed and all penetrated, this physio-energetic process as I think of it has been completed. It creates a circuit. It closes a circuit. And when a circuit is closed, it can’t be any more closed than closed. That part of your development is done. So the development up the vertical access, up through the ñanas, has been completed. Now, there is an infinite amount of development yet to be done on the horizontal access. Which is to say that&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: &amp;#x2014;Mastering, mastering&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: &amp;#x2014;that any stratum of mind, there is infinite possibility of exploration and mastery. So to say that someone has completed the physio-energetic process isn’t to say that they are perfected human beings or that they’re done. It’s to say they have a very good platform to continue their further work. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Which is interesting, and it almost makes me wonder if you couldn’t have something sort of in between, like what I may call a more top-down or start-to-finish in one sit hinted-at vipassana approach. Or a jhana approach, even if they couldn’t do it. Let’s say you have them focus their attention and notice in a narrow way and then notice that and then notice thoughts being thoughts and then notice&amp;#x2014;and then just tune into those aspects of mind, even if they sucked at it, and then notice 3rd jhana aspects, things around them, you know what I mean, and build it up, and have them do that every sit, and then notice 4th jhana, and then have them tune into boundless space, even if they couldn’t do it, and then boundless consciousness, or whatever, notice those flux, and then notice mind vanish and then reappear, even in a ritualized way, even if they couldn’t do the thing. It almost makes me want to try. It would be interesting to try a top-down, like, start to finish in one sit, even if you can’t do it, vipassana for jhana 16 ñana kind of way of looking at it which would be kind of the same thing where you would have them pay attention to each of those aspects you know from that model point of view during every hour sit or every time you did it. It sounds like you do, where you have them start out, begin, and assume they were already there at the high level powering and you’re invited too at the end of the&amp;#x2014;you know what I mean? It’s a completely different way of looking at the thing that I never even thought of, because we mucked it out and the natural progression happens and you rise and the natural way it’s not like you’re even asked to attempt to look at things from a 4th jhana 11th ñana high equanimity point of view until you’re there. You know we deal with each stage and this is how to get to the next one kind of. You know what I mean? As you go, it’s very… You know what I mean? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: Theoretically what you say makes sense, but it sounds like in practice, it still takes years to achieve that level of mastery. You can imagine the highest level all you want to, and 20 years later you will probably actually manifest the highest level. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Well traditionally it was conceived that it should be done in 100 days. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI :That’s about right. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Once one has laid out the basic groundwork, one has learned the techniques, one has acquired the necessary conceptual knowledges, one has acquired a view: intense work is ideally done in 100 days. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: How many hours a day, under what kind of conditions? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: From 10-16 hours/day. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: That’s about right. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: In complete isolation. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Oh, interesting. Now do you meet with a teacher at all, or are you just doing it? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: You’re just doing it. Everything you need to know has been done, and the teacher is the textbook itself. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Oh, so there’s a manual. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: There is a ritual manual. You keep referring to it. And the wording is really, really pointed. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Nice. So it’s well worked out. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: How much time would you be expected to spend laying the groundwork? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Several years, at least. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Several years of an hour a day or something? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Yeah. Five or six years if you’re talented, probably ten years if you’re thick. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Huh. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: Which would be considered very fast from a vipassana point of view or a samatha point of view. So if somebody could go 10 years, start to finish, that would be exceptionally fast in our tradition, in the Burmese-Mahasi tradition. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Are you talking stream-entry or&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: I’m talking arhatship. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: To arhatship, that’s cookin’. Yeah. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: I’m talking about an ideal scenario which obviously doesn’t work most of the time because of a variety of reasons. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Life. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Life and religion. Religion being the main obstacle. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Even in Shingon you mean the religion. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: The Ferrari and the Armani approach to everything. The silk and the brocade. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: The scene. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: Kind of similar, I heard one of the Zen teachers I was taking a class with in Nairopa say something like, to get, it should take 4-5 years of intensive practice to get kensho-satori stream-entry. And then maybe 10 years after that to finish it up. And I thought that was interesting. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: It’s a similar time-frame. Well basically it’s doable. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI and KF: Yeah. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: The idea remains, it’s doable. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: That’s really important. And really that’s what we’re trying to do here and normalize this, and say this isn’t some crazy&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: It’s not a myth. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: And it’s not a particularly big deal. It’s something doable for very ordinary people who are interested and willing to apply themselves. And maybe the reason it doesn’t happen more often is because practitioners don’t have access to someone who will look them in the eye and say, this is possible, and I know that in my own experience. Because to have someone who will look you in the eye and say that is so powerful and so empowering. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Yeah. That’s the shattering thing. That’s the break in the shell of the egg. Someone has to come from the outside, right? You know the thing with the eggs, when the little chicks, the first one that gets out, the strongest one goes breaking the other eggs, because the other ones are not strong enough to break. But once the egg is broken from the outside, the weak chicks can come out. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah. Like I remember, I was on the road with Ken, he was this, you know, rocker dude, you know, who lived in my house with me, and was smart and a good guy and all these things, but not some unusual, immortal superstar, you know. And when he did it, I was like, oh. “Kenneth.” I apologize. My error. [laughs] And when he had done this, it was like, god, like, he’s smart, but he’s not, like, an immortal being. It was profound. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: He wasn’t yet. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: He wasn’t yet! [laughter] That’s funny. But what’s weird is, you know, like, what’s sort of strange, though, is like, because that’s better than when I think, like, when you meet someone who’s already done it, and you meet them in the context of having already done it, it makes it weird. You know what I mean? It’s hard to think of them as a normal person. Whereas I met you when you were just some hairsprayed rocker dude, you know, and it was a little, like, you know, who was living in my house at my same level essentially, so that was really normalized. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: It’s really hard to project a lot of nonsense or hero-worship on to somebody you&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: You’ve been on the road with. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: Just another guy. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: [laughs] Yeah. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: And that works both ways. It’s really hard not to project your mythical nonsense on someone that was introduced as&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Who has it already done. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: Yes. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: That’s a real problem. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: Whatever. Grand High Mucky Muck &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;[laughter] &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Right. You know what I mean? [laughter] Yeah, it’s true. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: It makes sense. It wasn’t so true for me when I picked up Daniel’s work, because he was so clearly advertising that he was a Mucky Muck. [laughter] You were like, “I am a Mucky Muck!” &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: “And I just happened to figure this stuff out.” &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Actually, I just happened to follow instructions. I mean, I did what nobody else did. Like, why is it that all these psychologized, adult children at IMS&amp;#x2014;you know, which is what they are&amp;#x2014; you know, these highly regressed, whiny, sad, pathetic, scared, you know, creepy little people&amp;#x2014;why the hell have they not done it? They just didn’t bother to follow the friggin’ instructions. You know, for an hour they didn’t, much less a day or two or a week or two. You know what I mean? It’s true. You know, I remember when I was at MBMC, you know, the instructions were noting. You know, they were very simple. They said, you know, you note it like this, and you do that. And I remember, yeah, I was noting it, but I was thinking, and I was philosophizing, I was being a typical intellectual, psychologized Westerner. And then I remember I was sitting outside the room, and these little Malaysian peasants, who had gotten there about the same time I did, you know, she couldn’t have been more than 20, a little simple peasant who was describing her meditation practice or whatever and I was like, wait a second, she is clearly&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Noting it. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: She is seeing stuff I clearly am not. And the teacher was like, “That woman! She sees cause and effect! ‘Cause she is noting!” &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;[laughter] &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: She’s not just noting; she’s noticing! &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah. She’s noticing, yeah, right, exactly. And I had been LAPPED! You know, nothing like that to rattle some arrogant, competitive urge. She’s following instructions, so maybe I should follow instructions. God, it’s so crazy, it just might work. You know, it was really profound to have this little experience. To have it normalized. You know, wait, she’s actually seeing stages. I mean, she’s actually achieving something. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: So the people on these retreats actually aren’t doing the insight practice. They’re not succeeding to the extent that they’re not doing the practice. I want to tell a Daniel story. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: It’s not that they’re doing it and it’s not working. They’re not doing it. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Right. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: It’s not that they’re not doing it properly. They’re not doing it. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: One of my favorite stories that Daniel tells is, he was on retreat, and they were having their group interview, and people were doing … the Western practitioners were doing what they often do, which is talk about their job and their boyfriend and their girlfriend&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: And their back pain. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: &amp;#x2014;Everything other than the phenomena they’re ostensibly there to observe. So this goes on for some time, and Daniel shouts out, “THE BREATH?? DID ANYONE NOTICE THE BREATH??” &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: [laughter] &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Unknown: In your interview? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: And of course they all looked around, and there’s a little bit of a moment of recognition, and then they immediately went back to talking about&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: &amp;#x2014;boyfriend and their back pain. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: It’s exasperating. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Now remind us what Mullah said. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: This is a Mullah Nasreddin story, the famous Sufi wiseman-fool teaching figure. The Mullah goes to the marketplace one morning, and he says to the crowd assembled there, “Do you know what I’ve come here to tell you?” And they say, “No.” And he says, “Well, there’s no point in my telling you that,” and he goes home. The next day he comes back, and he says, “Do you know what I’ve come here to tell you?” and they think, well, yesterday we said no, but we really want to hear what he says to say, so we’ll tell him something else, and they said, “Yes.” And he says, “Well if you know, there’s no point in my telling you!”, and he went home. Third day he came back, and he said, “Do you know what I’ve come here to tell you?” and some of them were very clever and they said, “Half of us know, and half of us don’t know.” And the Mullah said, “Let those of you who know tell those of you who do not know.” [laughter] And he went home. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: But you know, it’s interesting… &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: This is great. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: There is the Western, psychologized person. There’s a strand in Western culture of scientists and science, and they definitely know how to follow instructions. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Until they go on retreat! I saw people with PhD’s. And these people know how to hoop-jump with the best of them. I mean, if you have a fucking PhD … you know what I mean? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: Except recently I talked to Joseph Goldstein, and I asked about this scientist retreat, and he said something interesting. He said, it was really weird, these scientists, because I gave them the instructions, and then they actually went and did it. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: [laughter] It was so strange! It had been 20 years, and no one had done it before! That’s the creepiest thing! Mind-boggling! If you’ve ever been to IMS&amp;#x2014;and I don’t mean to rag on the place, I got a lot out of sitting at IMS&amp;#x2014;but, I mean, you know exactly what I’m talking about. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: And some people go and do the practice, and it’s clear. A lot of others don’t. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: It’s 3-5 out of 100. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: Unless it’s a longer retreat, like the three-month retreat. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah, the three month, you’ve got more, yeah, obviously. But even there, you’re talking about a 100 day retreat, right? In the Mahasi Sayadaw tradition, where we come from, they assume, in a three-month retreat, in Burma, about 50% stream-enterers. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Yeah. That’s the recipe. That’s 100 days. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah. 50% will get it. Which is, you know… &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: You should get fruition in those 100 days. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah. And at IMS, they assume maybe, barely 10% if they’re lucky. Which is way better than it was when they were doing some other things. But anyway. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: And when you say stream-entry, is that talking about enlightenment? What does that mean? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah. So when I say “stream-entry”, meaning first stage of enlightenment, at least. Having cracked the thing, having entered the thing. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: The first of how many stages? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Well, it depends on how you want to count them. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: In the Mahasi Sayadaw tradition. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: It would be four and then Buddhahood if you want, but they don’t assume that, so four. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Stream-entry guarantees that the person knows the difference between doing it and getting it done. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yes. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: Going back to the original question. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: From that point on… &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah. From that point on, they sort of know, and they sort of don’t. Because there are still a few big shifts. I mean, stream-entry is good, because now people cycle. Progress will continue now in a way it did not before. They are in the stream of the thing, and if they wish to continue&amp;#x2014;and perhaps even if they don’t&amp;#x2014;cycles and new insights will show up for them, even if they don’t even practice. They can walk away from the thing, but something is going to keep happening. Because they’ve thrown the ON switch. Now they’re on the conveyor belt. The conveyor belt may move at different speeds or whatever, but they are on the ride. You know what I mean? They’re in. They’ve started the engine in a way that it was not before. But there are still a few big shifts that they may not necessarily understand well. So the next big shift is how to leave the familiar territory of the strata or layers of mind they’ve understood the true nature of and get to the next stratum of mind which we’d call getting to second path, which is essentially learning to do a new cycle. And then the next hurdle, which may not be particularly obvious necessarily&amp;#x2014;I mean, the big shift is really to third path. I mean, that’s a big shift, because to Anagami, from a vipassana/Theravada point of view&amp;#x2014;because by that point, particularly if you know the maps and models, then you know your cycles, you know your pattern you go through, you know fruition, you know all these things, but still applying it&amp;#x2014;something they obviously emphasize more in Shingon it sounds like, when you describe that this is, you know, universe nature or this is just it, or this is luminous and aware, self-aware, or sensations-where-they-are-ness, which is the big shift at Anagami, which is different even from walking around understanding really pragmatically as somebody who’s first or second path. They don’t really see they much really when they’re walking around in that same way, and they may not know that that’s the next thing to look for, the broad, inclusive even I’d call it mind evenness of it’s not evenness but you know what I’m talking about. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: Question: So third path is a completely different animal than either first or second path. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: In a number of ways it is. I mean, yes, more cycles will sort of get you there, but in terms of really understanding it, it is really worth having a more Dzogchen-like&amp;#x2014;I mean, one of the flaws of Theravada is that it doesn’t really give a Dzogchen-like point of view and emphasis like it should. Because they sort of assume the same instructions will get you all the way, which they kind of will, but it’s not quite the same. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: So are you saying that each path has its own logic of answering the question, “What does getting it done mean?” &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yes, it does, definitely. Yes. They are different. So for a stream-enterer, doing it&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: It’s like a dialectic. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: &amp;#x2014;Yes. It is. It’s very much. But for a stream-enterer, the focus of their practice, generally, at least in Theravada, is fruitions, completed/getting through cycles, getting through the Reobservation or Dark Night part of a cycle with relative ease, getting their hit, coming out, maybe mastering some formless jhanas, doing some samatha practice or something. You know, that’s the life of a stream-enterer. It’s pretty linear/circular in a pretty defined circle. It’s pretty straightforward. Whereas second path, there’s all these sort of fractals, and there’s complexity, and they’re kind of in their old territory versus new territory, there’s levels of mind showing up that they don’t understand that well, they may cross an extra Arising &amp;amp; Passing Away, and they can’t get a fruition, they feel confused and out of place, am I enlightened, I don’t know what I’m doing, or how do I get back, or how do I go forward. So it’s not like they can’t have difficulties. So but getting it done for them is getting the next path, going through the cycle again, learning how to get a fruition. Whereas for an Anagami, getting it done is beginning to see this is it in real time. You know, the sensations of this hand are just the sensations of this hand, and the cycles in terms of getting a fruition or thinking of the cycles as something that will get it done begins to fade. That it’s about the cycles or completing more cycles or somehow that begins to fade and they realize more and more, no, I have to see it here, I have to see it now. This space, this mind in all circumstances, in all phases of the practice, has to be it, or else what have I got? What the hell good is that? Second path starts to look not that great from the point of view of, wait a second, walking around, I better, my baseline, you know, regardless of what’s happening, better be at the level of where I think my understanding should be. You know what I mean? Like, often it isn’t for some people at second path. And realizing that this is it, sort of inhabiting this reality-ness, in a broad, more inclusive way, is obviously, that’s what Getting It Done or doing it is more like. And then, yeah... &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: So let’s look at this difference between the first two paths and third path in the mechanical way. What are the mechanics of it? We talked about moving through these nexes of energy. This is the chakra model. In the first two paths, this is a very linear process. You could say you’re moving upward through the chakras, if you’re looking at your own body. You’re accessing and penetrating these chakras. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Pushing through. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: Yes. And all of the sub-chakras that are involved here. At third path, something fundamentally different has to happen. Now, the third eye chakra - from the level of the third eye chakra - the entire package of nexes of energy that have been penetrated so far, must be integrated from that level. So it’s a very big job. Every nexus of energy has to tie to every other nexus of energy. This has to happen yet again in order to complete the circuit at the 4th path level. All of those nexes of energy have to be integrated from the level of the crown chakra. At that point, the energy flows freely through the body, comes out the top of the head, curves back around, comes to rest at the heart chakra. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: At the heart center. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: Yes, at the heart center. Completing the circuit permanently. And that’s what’s calling the Arhat. So contrary to myth, Arhat is not a perfect person, a sanitized being who will never have a negative emotion. It’s someone who has simply completed that circuit. The behavioral implications of that … are a question that would deserve another one of these sessions. [laughter] But generally speaking, whatever we heard would happen is wrong. Who knows what would happen? The fundamental characteristic, I would say, of the Arhat: he knows he’s done. He’s off this ride, this pull that has been torturing this person for, lo, these many years goes away. This is why, traditionally speaking, the Arhats walk up to the Buddha on the day of their enlightenment, and they say, “Done is what needed to be done.” &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: The search is over. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: The search is over! There’s no more becoming in this or any future life. Because that’s what it feels like! You know you’re off of that ride, and what a relief. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah. I mean, from a sort of cynical point of view, I talk about this as Insight Disease. You catch Insight Disease essentially when you cross the Arising &amp;amp; Passing Away. I mean, that’s when you’re really inoculated with the virus. You know what I mean? And when you get stream-entry, you’re really screwed. Know what I mean? The only thing that cures that and really cures that in that particular way and that particular disease is doing THAT. So from the end point of view, getting Arhatship or Siddha or whatever&amp;#x2014;THAT is what cures the Insight Disease that started all those many years ago when some poor sonuvabitch crossed the Arising &amp;amp; Passing Away. You know, second vipassana jhana, the point of no return. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Not knowing what he’s getting into. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Exactly. This poor idiot. This poor, unsuspecting... &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Moron. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah, moron. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: And it’s such a joke, because he doesn’t know what he wants. He thinks that he wants to become a sanitized being, but what he really wants and what he’s really going to find out&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: It’s what he’s after. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: &amp;#x2014;What he really is going to find out on the day that he finds it out is that what he wanted was to be done with it. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: He wanted to be rid of Insight Disease. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: And that can happen. And that is a very realistic goal. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Amen. Yeah. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah. So doing it and getting it done, from that point of view, is finally seeing through the last knot of perception. The last subtle distortion of dualistic misinterpretation or missynchronization of thought processes. I mean, I really think of it like a missynchronization. It’s almost like something is out of phase in a habitual way. It just keeps it slightly out of the purview of comprehending awareness. Like, it’s like a phase issue. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: One half of experience keeps self-referencing. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yes. Yeah. But it’s shifting. I mean, the problem is, it’s so unbelievably malleable. It can shift to an astounding range of patterns. But yeah, it’s almost like there’s a missynchronization of the thing. Something is running slightly out of phase in a slightly jarring way that yet is very compelling until you finally are able to just see things in a complete and penetrating way. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: So just to bring up a question around that, which is that you were talking about the Anagami at third path needing to see that they’re not gonna find this in the cycles. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Which is not entirely true. Because it’s not like more cycles don’t help. Somehow they do. Going up and down those cycles do do something. But in the end, they do actually become tired of that. Because those don’t stop doing for them what they did before and become so frustrating at least from the, you know, it’s sort of a Theravada insight of, I don’t know if the Shingon people quite experience it, but to have cycled so many times and yet still feel as though there’s something to do, to have gone up and down those territories so many times and go, what the frak, why in the world do I&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: What the fractal? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: What the fractal, exactly. Seriously, it’s like that. And, you know, so that last thing, to finally go, no, I need something that is not bound up in these cycles. I need something that is not bound up in anything. I need something that is as fundamental, the simplest thing as you call it, and yet, you know, the most fundamental thing, I have to be able to understand that in a way that is there regardless of essentially what’s happening. It’s something that was always true. If you see what I mean. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: So at that point&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: That’s getting it done. From that level. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: So at the point of Anagami or third path, it’s possible to be the eye of the hurricane, where all of this tail-chasing nonsense is going on around. That isn’t you. All of these cycles that are going on around are not you. That’s the hurricane. And somehow there’s this perspective from the eye. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: And what’s striking me now, perhaps because I have to deal with this territory&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Right. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: I can’t help but think of it in terms of cycles. Maybe it’s my geeky nature. Maybe, as you’ve pointed out, it’s part of the, it’s basically&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: That’s part of the phase. So that second to third path transition territory, and even somewhat at, particularly early-to-mid-third path, it is really hard to not think in terms of cycles, because that’s what worked before. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: That’s your reality. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: That’s also your reality, and that’s where you are. And that’s what worked. It worked before, so why won’t it work some more? It’s not like it’s that hard to cycle. You know how to cycle. That’s comfortable. You can figure out how to shift from old territory to new territory. You can do all that. So that’s what you know. And that’s what’s worked. So it only makes sense from that point of view to keep doing it and continue to do it more. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: Yes. And I can’t help but notice that the description of the first cycle and the experience of the first cycle seems to hint at&amp;#x2014;it’s like a microscopic description of the whole path. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yes. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: And somehow there’s something profound in that, in that the same lessons get learned again at larger levels. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yes. And wider and wider. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: But it’s not an exact match, and it would be misleading to think too much about that. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: That’s true. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: That pattern is apparent. But I don’t know what the implications are. I wouldn’t... &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: I guess for me the implication right now is that, because I’ve seen and gone through these patterns on so many levels, I can trust if the larger thing is an impersonal pattern, that I can trust the process. I guess that’s kind of the significance I put in. This process is trustworthy, and I can give myself to it, and it will take care of itself. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: You’re on to it. Because in the third path, what is necessary is to let it happen. It’s not so much about doing it as it is about allowing it in the third jhana and the third path. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Because there’s this weird connection between the jhanas and the paths. There’s no question. Because you could only be the eye of the hurricane if there was a hurricane. And that’s the third jhana problem. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: The third vipassana jhana. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Third vipassana jhana or the dark night stage. Where there’s this chaotic stuff around, the periphery, you know, which is the width, it’s similar to the, you’ve got the periphery, which is what’s so interesting about third path. You’ve sort of got the periphery, but it hasn’t hit all the way through to the center yet. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: You’re a donut. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah, you’re a donut. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: Yeah, and here’s the question, because in the third vipassana jhana, it’s like, you have to kind of intentionally expand and the tension and try to hold the complexity of it, and I feel that way with perceiving emptiness. It’s kind of a similar thing. It takes attention to try to tune in to this quality of reality. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Right. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: And that’s why it feels funky. Because it’s like, why does it take attention to see this? And in my, like, somehow, am I attention? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Right. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: Like, what’s happening such that, like, this field of attention narrows and expands, and who’s doing that, and why does it feel like something has to happen before I can see this? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Except what’s interesting is that the more the center point patterns, the subject patterns, which are not subject patterns but seem to be subject patterns, that are through the core, through the back of your head, through the side of your neck, through your eye sensations, through the sensations of intention, through the memories, through consciousness echoes, the little mental impressions of things&amp;#x2014;the more these central patterns get seen as they are, the more the emptiness of this is obvious. That’s the paradox. So people think, oh, I’ll look at this, and I’ll see emptiness. It’s not that that’s wrong, but emptiness becomes more obvious the more&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: So you’re saying the head is more like the center of the donut? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Right. The head is the center of the donut, and you have to see through the center. You have to see all the sensations in the center the same way you see the periphery. And so that’s the trick. Because the central pattern, these core patterns&amp;#x2014;expectation, anticipation, mapping, wondering, doubting, fearing, gaming the system, all the stuff that was a hard thing to crack in High Equanimity, you know, to get from High Equanimity to stream-entry&amp;#x2014;it’s similar to that, except it’s even slightly more … more. Still, that basic concept of seeing these central patterns through the back, through the spine, through the neck, through the head, through this, what appears to be this observing, doing, central apparatus, you know, literally you can almost take it on at that kind of cave, stupid level and get something out of it. I’m not saying it’s the whole thing, but it’s not bad advice. Because the more you see that as being empty, the more the emptiness of this is obvious, because when this happens and when that happens, and that’s seen in the same way, all of a sudden the playing field is level, and it’s not a question of empty or not empty, it’s just is-ness. Do you see what I mean? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: You seem to be suggesting that when you’re the donut, through an act of will, you’d be able to see the center of the donut. I don’t think that’s what you’re suggesting, and I don’t think that’s a productive approach. If you can’t see it, you can’t see it. So straining to find it isn’t going to accomplish anything. Trusting in the process, on the other hand, is going to be the whole game. You have a tremendous amount of momentum, and it could be argued that all that’s needed at that point is to concentrate. Because you’re essentially a master of vipassana if you’ve gotten that far. You’re going to do vipassana at whatever level of mind you can access. Since we know there are two things necessary&amp;#x2014;we have to access the stratum of mind, and you have to penetrate it&amp;#x2014;if you’re not penetrating it at that high level, you’re probably not accessing it. So you could make the argument that what you really need to do is to concentrate your behind off. You might want to concentrate on samatha practice, kasina practice where you stare at a disc and become very concentrated and trust that you will penetrate that object. I don’t know this, because we don’t have a large enough sample size. We don’t have the data. But it’s not credible to me that a person working toward third path could get lost in jhana. I can’t believe that you could access jhana without penetrating it. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: Third path or fourth path? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: Working toward third path. Either way. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;TG: Is there a topic here? I walked in in the middle of this. Is there a … topic? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Yeah. We started by framing the whole thing, what could be the difference between doing it and getting it done. That was the initial ground question. Because obviously many people are doing, but not many are getting it done, you know? So what would be the crucial point or the vital point of, which makes the distinction… &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;TG: I’ve got a couple points. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Sincerely doing it and actually getting it done. Just to brief you: as we were going along, we found out after exploring several explanations of getting it done, there are actually four logics of answering this question, also known as four paths. And at each path is an answer to this question in a slightly different but significantly different way. And that’s where we were returning, to the third path, the Anagami, and having some specific sub-questions and going into the details. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;TG: I actually want to add a couple points in there, in reverse order. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Sure. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;TG: The most recent one, Vince, is that, while sitting in that chair a couple hours ago, I got my first taste of intentionally entering the formless jhanas. And it was reproducible. I came out of them and did them again in order, and when I was laying in bed just now, I did them again. So yeah, Kenneth was telling me afterward about the factors of mastery of them. I haven’t quite been working on that yet. I’m just working on going in and coming out. I just want to agree with these guys over here that there’s no risk of getting lost in them. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: Yeah, my concern is not risk of getting lost. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Kenneth, Vince and I had a conversation recently where he said, yeah, he was going to play with that on his next retreat or something. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: For the sake of the recording: you’re talking about doing pure samatha practice. Maybe a kasina object. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: Whatever object seems useful. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Because you were going to talk to Jack. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: Yeah, I was gonna say, Jack, I want to mess around with samatha on this retreat. I think it would be useful. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: “I want to pump up that skill.” &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: And he’s suggested it before. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Sure. It’s a useful skill. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: Yeah, so, it seems valuable. I messed with samatha quite a bit prior to stream-entry, and part of the reason was because I was in the dark night, and it was so unpleasant. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: You wanted the juice. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: Yeah. And I could drop into the fourth jhana, just hang out there. And I was kinda spacing out though, tired. But it was still much more pleasant than the crazy, wacky, vibratory&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: But there’s nothing wrong with having a pleasant experience while you’re doing this process. There is some bizarre semblance of Protestant guilt within Burmese/Mahasi vipassana, where they seem to be encouraging us to feel guilty about having a good time while you do it. And that really has nothing to do with it. Whether you have a good time or a bad time, if you access the stratum of mind and penetrate, you’ve done the job. So you may as well have the lubrication of jhana while you’re doing it. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: That makes sense. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;TG: Okay, so, point number two. Going in reverse order. Seeing the sensations that make up the central core processes and how you can’t really see the blind middle of the donut. Yeah. I don’t know, man. My experience&amp;#x2014;which is bare&amp;#x2014;shows me that it doesn’t really matter what I do, as long as I’m doing something. I’m gonna get from the donut to clear-all-around. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: Yeah. I’m talking about it … I think I’m talking about it at a different … &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;TG: [inaudible] &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: Well that’s what I’m saying. They’re microcosm and macrocosm. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: He’s talking about Anagami and then Arhat. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: Yeah. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: It’s related to the jhanas, but there are some differences. I mean, it’s not, because, from a stream-enterer point of view, it looks very linear. It looks relatively linear. It does get more complicated. And it’s simple from a certain point of view, but it does get more complex. These fractals get vast. The subtleties and the strata of mind get subtle and complicated. It is an organic process. It does take time to unfold. And there are a lot of layers. I mean, it’s not like there aren’t a lot of layers. And so, you know, again, it’s not like there’s necessarily a perfect correlation between how to get from, you know, third vipassana jhana to fourth vipassana jhana in stream-entry terms, versus how to get to Anagami and then to Arhatship in, you know, big path terms. Because there are correlations, but it is more complicated than that when you’re going through it, because there is, again and again and again and again, lots of different things&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Comparing to this level of things becoming quite complex. The founder of the Shingon school in Japan, Kukai, wrote, the world of yoga is immeasurable and vast, done with all the images, done with all achievements, let emptiness be your true home. I think that refers to the simplicity of the next stage. But how do you get there actually? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: You mean Arhatship. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Yeah. How do you really get there? That’s not Arhatship. That’s the path of Arhatship. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: How do you get that’s what you’re looking for? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: No no. How do you get done with the vast, fractal nature of the Anagami stage. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Eventually … well, I can give you some theory. Theory number one is that the fractal is not infinite. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Okay. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Okay, so even if you assume fractal, and you assume that it gets more complex as you get there, and there are more stages, and strata, and subtle things&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: But you could complexify forever. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: No. Okay, so the limited fractal theory says that, eventually, the fractal will end, and you will see it. Eventually the fractal ends. The process will complete itself. Which is the limited&amp;#x2014;there are only so many strata of mind you can see. There are only so many cycles you can go through, and eventually you will see the last set of patterns that are causing subject-object duality delusion that are confusing the mind in that way, that are being misinterpreted in that way. Eventually, you will see all the levels. How many cycles exactly to do that, it’s not easy to map. Because from the mapping, cyclical, progressive, you know, ñana/jhana, how many paths, how many sub-cycles, how many sub-sub-cycles&amp;#x2014;it’s a mess. So I can’t give you a number. But I can definitely say there is a limited fractal theory. It’s complicated, but it’s not infinite. So that’s the first thing. You know what I mean? There are only so many strata. If you see the strata, you will see the thing. You know what I mean? So then the next sort of core point that is more basic than the limited fractal model, which is still pretty complicated, would be, you just have to see sensate reality clearly enough, and that is just a question of seeing reality clearly enough. And that sounds stupid, but that is it. You know, and that’s sort of a basic standard which is an easy standard, because it means, if you’re not seeing reality clearly enough, then you simply know you have to see it more clearly. Because from that point of view, you have a clear standard, your task, and that actually is just a question of dedicating oneself to that task. Which is sort of, when we went back to motivation, it can be done, and then it can be done by following instructions … guidelines. The Anagami has a simple task. They simply have to see it clearly enough to get the flip. And then if they’re not seeing it clearly enough, they need to see it more completely and more conclusively and more as it actually is. But you know, it’s sort of moronically stupid, but it’s practical, because it, you know … &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: Daniel, I’d like to tie in what you just said, the second theory, which can be seen as a method&amp;#x2014;tie that in with something Hokai said earlier. It had to do with, in my words, knowing “it knows itself”, what I call the No Dog. Consciousness takes consciousness as objects. And I think of one of the ten labors of Hercules, where he was, his task was to clean the muck from the Aegean Stables. So the horses were depositing the muck in the stables faster than he could shovel it. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: In enormous quantities. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: I’ve been corrected on this, by the way. It turns out it was cows, not horses, Someone got picky about this, by the way. But never mind. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;[laughter] &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Apparently it was cows. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;[laughter] &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: Because cows deposit more muck&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Right. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: &amp;#x2014;than horses. And even being Hercules, the strongest man, he couldn’t get it out fast enough. So he went about it in a different way. He diverted a stream through the stables, and the muck was continuously cleaned out, even as fast as the cows could dump it. So rather than think of this&amp;#x2014;we’ve been talking about this linear model: settin’ em up and knockin’ em down. Every single stratum and sub-stratum of mind in this very complex, linear model, had to be accessed and penetrated. There are too many. We can’t do that. So we have to divert the stream through the stable. Consciousness takes consciousness as object, and this thing takes care of it. I think you used those very words. This thing takes care of itself. And this is very explicit in what Hokai described earlier. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: But it’s not like the basic meditation skills of samatha and vipassana, of accessing layers and perceiving them clearly, don’t still apply. You know. They still apply. Which, if you’re not seeing it clearly enough, you just simply need to up the stakes. What’s most interesting, to me, about the notion of the dharma was that I could fearlessly pour my strength into the thing, and the worst thing that was going to happen, as long as I was looking at things as they were, or doing something very skillful&amp;#x2014;the worst thing that was going to happen was that it was gonna work. You know? What’s interesting is, I’m not quite sure, somewhere in that process between MBMC and talking to you in the desert, Kenneth, I was essentially given license to just go for it. Which is an interesting point of view. To just, like you were talking about, you have to have all your intention, Tarin. I remember, you were talking about, you have to have all your goal and intention stuff lined up on that. You know what I mean? And know that that’s okay and that’s what it takes. Know what I mean? When your goal and intention stuff lines up on that as target, that’s powerful. As we all know here, that’s powerful. And when you feel like, yeah, it’s okay, reality can take it if I look at it really hard, or if I really do the practice clearly, or if I really fine-tune the thing, we all have more power than we think we do. We can all access more insight and concentration and understanding power than we think we have. A lot more. You know what I mean? So in terms of doing it or getting it done, one of those big things is that sense of, not only can I do this, but it’s okay for me to do this, and I am fully justified in mobilizing the force of my mind on that task to follow all that instruction&amp;#x2014;yeah! I think that makes a big difference between doing it and getting it done, is that sort of galvanized, balls-to-the-wall&amp;#x2014;ARRRG! &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;[laughter] &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: The mobilization. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah. Of resources. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: The mobilization. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: Yeah. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: You wanted to say something… &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;TG: And this ties into my third point, in reverse order, which is that, despite my own map fascination and cycle fascination, I’ve never been fully convinced that what I was looking for would be found in the cycles at any point, and I’m much less convinced by that now. In fact, what I was looking for before I knew anything about the maps or cycles is much closer to what I’m looking for now. And that has a lot more to do with what Kenneth is calling No Dog and with his metaphor of clearing out the stables than any sense of linear progression. And while I have a personal appreciation of the kind of power that finishing the path can bring, or going through whatever training vipassana/samatha&amp;#x2014;my interest is not really in developing that at this point. It’s in regardless of what path I am or am not on, is just doing what it seems needs to be directly in immediately as in now done on the insight front. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: Yes. And, Tarin, I think, again, we don’t have enough data to come to definitive conclusions, but I think it’s reasonable to believe, based on what I’ve seen, and based on what I’ve read from other people who had done this, that, at any point after the first Arising &amp;amp; Passing Away, which is the first opening, the first spiritual opening&amp;#x2014;at any point after that, if you can access the No Dog, if consciousness can take itself as object, or as they say in Dzogchen, “turn the light around,” that this light of awareness that is always looking out at phenomena, whatever they may be, even if it’s the changing phenomena of mind and body, that light’s looking out. When that light turns around and takes itself as object, the gig is up. There’s no more foolin’. There aren’t two things. It sees it, consciousness sees itself, takes itself as object, and as J. Krishnamurti said, the observer and the observed are one. Now, this is not the simplest thing. This is the second to the simplest thing. But that’s okay. This is, as Ramana [Maharshi] said, the stick that stirs the fire and is eventually consumed by it&amp;#x2014;you can’t go wrong with this practice. Once the light of awareness turns around and takes itself as object, that’s all you have to do. You can do just that, and the rest of it takes care of itself. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;TS: On the insight front, this is the obvious thing. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: It’s never too early to do that. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;TS: Yeah. Agreed. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: Is that agreed? I dunno. I’ve heard some contention around this point, but I don’t see why it wouldn’t work. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: It’s hard to fault the directness of that pointing. ‘Cause it’s very direct, and direct is good. I like direct. The counterargument would be that you’re talking to some people who, for better or for worse, did go through the linear progression, did understand that, having gone through the linear progression, and can talk about it because they went through the linear progression. So the question is: Is it just that we thought we were supposed to go through a linear progression, we were looking for linear things, we didn’t have a more immediate practice or focus, we weren’t really quite trained in that way, in that specific way, it’s not that it wasn’t said, but it wasn’t emphasized or put in quite that way, and consequently we sort of wandered all over the place and did all these things and went through all these fancy stages and then by the way we got something we could have done long before, or is it, again, we have a limited data set, as Kenneth well points out? Is it that certain strata of mind only come into being in that way once you’ve done the work? You know, and can you short-circuit the thing and go straight to that and really go straight to that in the way we’re talking about it in that full-on way without having gone through the other stuff? Or, would the attempt to short circuit it also bring up the other stuff, perhaps with a slightly different feel or perhaps personal understanding of what was going on? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: That last point I think is particularly relevant, because I suspect that’s the case. I suspect that if you divert the stream through the stables, this other thing does happen. That all the strata of mind are accessed and penetrated even if you’re not consciously aware that’s going on. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;TG: I think that’s a possibility. I think I came looking for stream-entry because I thought I needed the power. I just needed the horsepower. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: You also needed to get out of the first dark night. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;TG: Yeah. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: I mean, duh. [laughs] It’s important. It helps. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;TG: The first dark night faded somewhat after my last retreat, prior to this last one, to the point where I was more-or-less okay if I never got out. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: That’s the Equanimity ñana. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: That doesn’t mean you wouldn’t slide back. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;TG: Yeah, yeah. But … my friend Jill, for example, is pretty okay even if she never gets out, and that’s a constant thing. She’s worn down that hill enough. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah, there ya go. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;TG: I wanted to get out of the dark night, but I also had my eye set on better things. I wanted the horsepower. I had a sense, and from reading your book, your description of how your concentration just really went up&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Which is true. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;TG: &amp;#x2014;Which is true. Whether it’s the process, like whether it’s the sub-stratum change/mechanical process that completing the cycle&amp;#x2014;whether it’s that that frees up the power, or whether it’s that sense of license you were talking about&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: No, it switched on things that were not switched on before. I really think so. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;TG: But here’s the thing. For me, that license didn’t fully come until after I finished this retreat. So, you know, it could be argued that finishing the retreat is what switched the license on. Regardless&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: That’s what I’d say. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: For the purposes of the tape, “finishing the retreat” is Tarin’s euphemism for having attained first path. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Stream-entry, yeah. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: Which, going back to the escape velocity, that’s how I always defined escape velocity. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: As stream-entry. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: And the way you always&amp;#x2014;Daniel&amp;#x2014;described it to me in that the thing is going to do itself at that point. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: I was just thinking that, coming back to the metaphor of an ordinary, conditioned, confused state being a state in which more than 90% of resources of awareness and noticing and recognizing and remembering are being allocated to ignore what’s happening. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: We could say that with each cycle, 25% can never be allocated again to ignoring. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Bill’s model. That’s exactly what Bill said. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: Bill Hamilton, my mentor and&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: So we could say that, with two cycles, 50% is gone. The balance is dropped on the&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: Which is sometimes why I call the second path what you’re calling&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Yeah. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: &amp;#x2014;Anagami. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: With the second path&amp;#x2014;if we would stretch it linearly, I’m sure it doesn’t work that way in every case. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: Well, it’s simplistic but it’s a nice&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: &amp;#x2014;It’s a nice picture, you know? With the second path, and with the second fruition, you’re into the 51%. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Sort of. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah, although Anagami is a big shift. Anagami is a BIG shift. To really be seeing it and walking around in it with that&amp;#x2014;yeah, you think you’re it, and you think you’re not it, and yeah there’s that subtle center stuff, that’s a big one. I could&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;[Daniel and Kenneth talking at same time] &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Are you talking about transcending Anagami? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: No. How would we allocate the percentages? Stream-entry is maybe like, I dunno, 10-15%. It’s way better than 0%. But it’s like, you know, maybe it’s, and I would say second path is not a huge amount more, you know, 10% or something, maybe 15%, I dunno, something more. I mean, I didn’t notice a big difference walking around. I didn’t notice, I mean, some changes, some things got dropped , my mind wasn’t doing certain things, some things were perceived, yeah, there were some changes, but it wasn’t like … When I really saw Anagami, and I really saw Anagami well, that was a HUGE shift. You know, that got me another 60%. And when I got to really late Anagami, where I kept thinking I saw it, you know, I was 95% there. I was close. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: So Anagami territory really takes up a pretty large&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: It takes up a big swath. I think Kenneth would agree. I think it’s a big step, at least in the Theravada model. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: It’s a quantum leap&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: It is. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: &amp;#x2014;from second path. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: It’s a whole different order. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;TG: How much consciousness taking itself were you doing? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Well, it depends what you mean by “consciousness”. So if by “consciousness” you mean phenomena. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: Or consciousness taking itself as object. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah. So was I doing that? Well, it depends what you mean. I did an extremely systematic look through the center. I did an extremely systematic&amp;#x2014;because I had this basic assumption, you know, it’s very sorta of a Theravada, ñana, cave stupid, simple approach, you know, but that was my model, so that’s what I had to work with, where I just decided to go and debunk every pattern of sensation there was and become fluent in seeing it as it was in terms of three characteristics, in terms of, but one of those important characteristics is emptiness or no-self, that it’s, you know, in the seeing is just the seen, and that was one of those phrases that I really liked, in the seeing just the seen, in the hearing just the heard, in the thinking just the thought, not something separate. That was just the thing. I mean, that was one of my core phrases I kept going back to and going that is deep and profound. That is glorious. I have to learn how to see that. And I really took as a conscious study, like, an application of energy, the intention, memory, and I would take those things systematically during my years as an Anagami in medical school, you know, when I would practice, I would just take those things on and just look through the center and look through the center and look at the patterns that seem to be subject, look at the patterns that seem to be awareness, looked at the patterns that seemed to be me, which is sort of a very low-brow, Theravada-y kinda way of turning consciousness to itself. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;TG: When you have the high enough concentration, it’s the same thing. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: YES! Right. So on that last retreat, when I went for perfect, 360, inclusive concentration, because when you turn consciousness to itself, there are two ways to think about that. You can think about sort of not-existent subject or light of awareness or something, you can think about some of what I’ll call an abstracted center point, or a pure center point, or a nothingness center point, which is almost like what Hokai was talking about, or an infinitely small center point in the center of the chest that is the flipside of boundless space. There’s two ways to think of subject turning to itself, if you’ll allow me to perhaps slightly alter your metaphor or instruction and I apologize if I’m doing so, Kenneth. But you can think of it in two ways. You can think of, if this is awareness, in the same way that all this is awareness, in the same way that head is awareness, eyes are awareness, thought is awareness, consciousness is awareness, consciousness turning to itself, light of awareness turning to itself&amp;#x2014;if this is the light in the same way that this is the light, then taking on all phenomena as object evenly and completely is the same as consciousness turning to itself at that level. And that was the level I was interested in. So you could say, yes, if you take universe as the same as manifest awareness, simply as the same. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Very good. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: If you take that as the same, then that’s the same thing, but, you know, I was trying to debunk the localization of consciousness in a point or an area or a center or a something in a very strategic, very focused way by allowing no sensation to arise that wasn’t perceived as it was, on its own terms, in a complete way. And so that’s the level of perfection of awareness and concentration that simultaneous access of strata and penetration fused to the point of, I kept remembering Bill Hamilton’s obsession with Trongyam Trungpa’s vadra samadhi, you know, the diamond-like samadhi that cuts to the truth of things. I remember he used to be obsessed by that at the end, you know, some of the last times I talked to him, you know, we would talk about vadra samadhi, and I was like, okay, let’s see how close I can get. You know, so, from that point of view, yes, I took on, I turned attention to consciousness itself, but I wasn’t turning it to, I wasn’t conceiving it as small, I was conceiving it as the universe. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: I have to completely endorse that. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: That makes perfect sense to me. Although that’s not the practice that I do now, as it happens, that is the practice I was doing in 2004 when I was walking under the pepper tree in New Mexico and completed the circuit. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: And completed the circuit for the final time. That’s the practice I was doing. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;TG: To me that’s the same one. It just happens to be which one happens to be more appropriate at this very moment. Whether it’s, you know, seeing, like, who is this that is asking? Who is this that is knowing? Or it’s going through each and every sensation that comes up, whether out there or in here, whether periphery or core. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: It’s the same, sure. Those are the same. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;TG: It’s a different sort of beginning. It’s a different emphasis. It’s a different way of turning. But I don’t have a particular prejudice for or against one or the other. Because I recognize them both to be doing the same thing. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: I was essentially going for a technique-less technique. I mean, I wasn’t looking for three characteristics. Go ahead. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: It seems that the key is the totality of one’s application. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;All: Yes. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: I was going for total application. 100% application. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: For example, in the Shingon approach, we would approach awareness by giving it a symbolic form. We would visualize a deity who is the embodiment of awareness. Alright? So you are watching, and you are being watched. Of course, the visualized deity is your own awareness. So basically your awareness is watching your awareness. And that’s the first stage, corresponding roughly to samatha. Okay? Once you stabilize the visualized form, you can dissolve it. And what do you do next? Every sound you hear is the voice of the deity, the manifestation of your awareness. Every form you see is the body of the deity, a gesture of the deity, a manifestation of your awareness. Every thought that comes along is the thinking of the deity&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Totality. Perfect. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: &amp;#x2014;the manifestation of your awareness, which again guides you into paying attention to everything. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: It’s the same thing. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: As if you were paying attention to your own awareness. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Right. Just with a Vajrayana twist. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Yeah. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: So to say it again, the common denominator between these various things we’ve described is the totality. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: The totality of application. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: Shortly before, I was just talking about walking under the pepper tree in New Mexico. Several days before this, I had been reading a book about Bankei, the Japanese Zen master, and I was very struck by something I read there. He advised his students to&amp;#x2014;I believe he said “dwell in Buddha mind”. He said, try dwelling in Buddha mind for thirty days. “I believe you will find after thirty days that you can scarcely live without it.” &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: [laughs] &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: That’s kind of like… &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: It’s like eating at McDonald’s for thirty days. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: That’s hilarious! Super Size Me! Super Buddha Me! &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: It really struck me! And I thought, you know, I’m pretty sure I know what he means by dwelling in Buddha mind. So I did that, and on about the fifth day, that whole thing unraveled. This problem I had … you called it … &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Insight Disease. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: Insight Disease. It went away that day and has not returned. This is now 2009. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Coming back to how the Japanese understand Buddha, to mean everything, it’s the Everything Mind. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: Yes. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;TG: Though I’m pretty sure I understand what that means, I heavily endorse this. Heavily. Heavily. That’s how I got path, for example. That sort of license to just go with what you know and just go with it. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: To go for it. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;TG: Just go for it. That’s why I wanna sort of talk away from the cycle model a little bit. Because, you know, I’m a lowly stream-enterer. You know. Okay? I know what I’m going for. I don’t have to do more paths in order to get this done. If the paths happen along the way, they happen. If they don’t, then we’ve got new data. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: Very nice. I support it. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Just to clarify, when say “get this done”, I assume you’re talking about Richard’s Actual Freedom model. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;TG: No. I’m talking about your Insight Disease. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Oh. You mean to be done with Insight Disease. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;TG: Yeah. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah. To be done with Insight Disease, yeah, I mean, you know, there’s definitely lots of ways to conceptualize and thus frame one’s practice and thus direct one’s attention and intention, which is powerful. I mean, to simply be done and to think of oneself as being done now and manifesting being done now does have a, if that’s what you’re talking about, or to manifest the doneness of this simply now does, if you’re conceiving of something like that, does have a beautifully aesthetically pleasing and philosophically pleasing immediacy to it. The only question that might arise would be (a) is that going to be done by ignoring such things as those strata of mind that may not be penetrated giving some validity to the many strata of mind model? And (b) would it be done at the level of delusional sort of scripting oneself into being done for the sake of being done and assuming you’re done because you feel I should be done now and this is it kind of model and thus settling for the chips and salsa rather than eating the big burrito. You know. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: Daniel, I would suggest that it would be a moot point. If the Dharma Disease, if the Insight Disease goes away, it goes away. And how you conceive of that is really irrelevant. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;TG: Yeah. Agreed. With regard to penetrating the sub-strata, I think any approach that we’ve mentioned so far does its job of doing that, whether you’re looking at, you know, the foreground, or you’re asking “Who am I?” which sort of&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: That’s a good traditional question. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;TG: &amp;#x2014;uproots the background. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: That’s got a no-self&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: It’s no-self. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: &amp;#x2014;inquiry that’s straight to the point. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;TG: And regarding the Actual Freedom stuff, yeah, I’ll do that along the way, or I’ll do that afterwards. I dunno. That, essentially, that’s not the insight problem. That’s taking care of, you know, this body and that body and everybody. If you want to put it in Buddhist terms, that’s sila. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: Yes. It’s karma-sila. I feel like we’re gonna have to wrap this pretty soon, because I’m getting very tired, but there’s one thing I’d like to touch upon before we close. We’ve talked about license. And earlier, Tarin and I talked about permission. Giving yourself permission to be enlightened wouldn’t be possible to overestimate how important that is. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Or even to concentrate. Or even to engage energy. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: Right. I agree. But I really wanna go, take this all the way to the end. At some point, in order to be done with the Insight Disease, you’re gonna have to say, I give myself permission to be with this! The lack of permission can hold you up for decades, I believe. And it might be a nice idea to reflect on. For anyone infected with this pernicious disease, to consciously reflect upon this. Have I suffered enough? Have I suffered enough? Have I done enough work? Have I gained the credibility of all my peers? And then ask yourself: Do I care? Or do I really want to be done? If I really want to be done, I’m going to have to give myself permission. And it might not happen in one step. Most people are going to reflect upon this for some time. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: That would be a process. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: And they’re going to realize, no, I have not given myself permission. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: “I don’t know how to do it. I have to learn this.” &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;TG: Yeah. Agreed. This is very important. It’s been part of my process. I mean, not consciously. I didn’t know that’s what I wasn’t doing. Not giving myself permission. But once you do, you go, oh! I wasn’t doing that. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah. Like you were a completely different practitioner on this retreat versus the last one. Really. I mean, because you hit this one saying, “I’m going to do it. I know how to do it.” That’s what you said. Which is very different from the previous one, which was, “Oh Daniel! Tell me how to do this.” You know what I mean? Which was really different. And it is a different level. Where, you know, I was like, okay, go up to your room, I’ll see you every few days, maybe I’ll say something, you know. You were definitely a whole different animal in terms of your confidence and your sense of applying your own power and the hilarious, “I’m not going to be the only unenlightened guy at this party! I’m gonna friggin’ get stream-entry before these dudes show up!” &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: It reminds me of that story of Ananda who&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: &amp;#x2014;Yeah! The only&amp;#x2014; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;TG: I was ready to fly into that room. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: That’s cool. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Seriously. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: You should have these gatherings more often while people are here meditating. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: That way you’re not the only unenlightened shmuck in the room. No, seriously. When you said that, that was funny as hell, because that’s my, “I’m on page 37, now I need to get to page 38...” &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: It’s like the 20 year old peasant at MBMC. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Right! It’s the same kind of thing. Like, ah, damn! &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: Competitive enlightenment. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Well, I mean, it’s not crazy. That’s not crazy, because that is motivating. And motivation is critical. I really think that one of the big problems with psychologized, Western dharma, is they don’t feel comfortable with their dark emotions, period. They think they shouldn’t have them and they should work through them, and thus, they can’t utilize that power. You know what I mean? I mean, truth be told, I ran on anger! And just sort of a viciousness. Really about 70% of the time. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: And a touch of ambition. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: And ambition! And some narcissism. And delusions of grandeur. And reckless abandon to the process. And a sort of a weird that I really had come to the conclusion that somehow, no matter what damage I did to myself in this process was going to be okay. Which is sort of ambitious and cruel. I mean, that I could hurt myself and I’d be fine, which gave me a tolerance for my own pain. I mean, that’s weird, but it’s true. You know what I mean? Like, you know, I mean, I was, for some reason, had no problems. Fear. I was terrified of residency. Literally my last retreat, when I finally got Arhatship, because I remember my dad, this is powerful stuff, I remember my dad going through residency, and just being exhausted, and he’s the nicest guy in the world, and then he was an asshole! ‘Cause he was just so friggin’ tired. I was scared of my dad when I was young, and he is an incredibly nice guy. Everybody who meets my dad goes, “God, what a nice guy he is!” Yeah, except when he’s working himself to death. You know, and so from a childhood fear, I had this real fear of residency. You know, and I came out of medical school an Anagami, and I had this three-week retreat that I had managed to get the time for at MBMC, and I was like, “I better fuckin’ do it!” Because that’s what I was going to go after, to go through residency like this. I better have, literally, like… [indecipherable] … Well, I mean, that I’m moaning and groaning about being an Anagami in residency is obviously funny, but it says something. You know what I’m talkin’ about. [laughing] &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: I have the same thought. Like, I better get this done before I have kids! &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Yeah! Seriously. It’s true! I mean, that’s good! That fear is good! That is brilliant shit! Really, I was like, I got three weeks. This better fuckin’ POP! Or else I’m SCREWED! You know? I gotta bring everything I can to bear in terms of basic sanity and clarity to something that I know really sucks! It’s just really screwed up. Any sort of socio-health whatever point of view. You know, and that helped. You know, so I mean, I was able to bring fear, anger, and all that crazy shit to my motivation, and that made a huge difference. Which again would be, if we’re talking about doing it versus getting it done, that kind of stuff helps. Anyway. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: Yeah. I just wanted to mention one thing that Kenneth told me as a kind of move toward wrapping up and … I think we’ve been doing it anyway. Just, when I left a six-week retreat and talked to Kenneth, and we were talking about all these friends that were practicing at the time, he’s like, yeah, thanks so much for talking to me, explaining kind of some of the stuff. And he said, yeah, enlightenment is a team sport. And that’s what you told me. And that’s really stayed with me in terms of the sangha element you mentioned. It’s a team sport both in terms of this kind of friendly competition and fear sometimes. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Not always so friendly. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;VH: And unfriendly. But also the support. There’s the challenge, but then there’s also the support. And there’s this kind of conversation, which I see is really wanting to make that challenge and support transparent and clear, say, hey, this is how it really is for people when they’re talking about this stuff. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;KF: In the Pali scriptures, the Buddha said, “Associate with the wise, and avoid association with wicked people.” I don’t know what wicked people are, but if associating with the wise means hang out with people who are enlightened, that’s very good advice. That’s very good advice. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;HS: Thank you. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;DI: Thank you. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;[bell rings] &lt;/p&gt;</summary> <dc:creator>Daniel M. Ingram</dc:creator> <dc:date>2013-01-11T07:34:41Z</dc:date> </entry> <entry> <title>The History of the DhO 1.6 (minor-edit)</title> <link rel="alternate" href="http://localhost/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/10303/The+History+of+the+DhO" /> <author> <name>Fitter Stoke</name> </author> <id>http://localhost/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/10303/The+History+of+the+DhO</id> <updated>2012-12-21T00:54:27Z</updated> <published>2012-12-21T00:54:27Z</published> <summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tired of getting strange and sometimes hostile reactions when they attempted to have ordinary conversations about their achievement-oriented practice on other websites about meditation, Daniel Ingram and a loose international group of meditators from diverse backgrounds with the help of Vince Horn formed a password-protected website called The Dharma Underground where they could discuss hardcore practice, states, stages and the like free from the ordinary taboos and cultural complexities that plagued other sites they found. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;They quickly realized that having the discussion among themselves seemed too limited and wasn&amp;#039;t in keeping with the spirit of open, straightforward dharma, so they founded The Dharma Overground, which was originally a Wetpaint site, though it did serve its purpose of fostering discussions that basically couldn&amp;#039;t occur anywhere else at that point. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;The Dharma Underground website mostly dried up, as the Dharma Overground was much more interesting, and within a year the DhO had over 400 members. However, it lacked a proper wiki, which was much wanted by some members of the community, so it was reworked and is now here as you see it. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;hr/&gt;&lt;h3 id="section-The+History+of+the+DhO-related+links"&gt;related links&lt;a class="hashlink" href="#section-The+History+of+the+DhO-related+links"&gt;#&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h3&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;a href="http://dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/blog/-/blogs/hurricane-ranch-2009-dharma-discussion?_33_redirect=%2Fweb%2Fguest%2Fblog%3Fp_p_id%3D33%26p_p_lifecycle%3D0%26p_p_state%3Dnormal%26p_p_mode%3Dview%26p_p_col_id%3Dcolumn-1%26p_p_col_count%3D1%26_33_struts_action%3D%252Fblogs%252Fsearch%26_33_redirect%3D%252Fweb%252Fguest%252Fblog%26_33_groupId%3D10128%26_33_keywords%3DHurricane%2BRanch "&gt; The Hurricane Ranch 2009 - Dharma Discussion&lt;/a&gt; - A dharma discussion recorded during the DhO&amp;#039;s first in-person meeting.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;a href="http://dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/3733385"&gt;http://dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/3733385&lt;/a&gt; - transcript&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;</summary> <dc:creator>Fitter Stoke</dc:creator> <dc:date>2012-12-21T00:54:27Z</dc:date> </entry> <entry> <title>Magick and the Brahma Viharas 1.0</title> <link rel="alternate" href="http://localhost/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/10303/Magick+and+the+Brahma+Viharas" /> <author> <name>Daniel M. Ingram</name> </author> <id>http://localhost/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/10303/Magick+and+the+Brahma+Viharas</id> <updated>2012-09-05T07:39:46Z</updated> <published>2012-09-05T07:39:46Z</published> <summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;&lt;pre&gt;Some thoughts on Magick&lt;/pre&gt;By Daniel M. Ingram &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;1) Whatever language one uses to describe these potentials that are within people and the wide web of causality, one will run into problems when dealing with anyone who is not very well-versed in the terminology, very broad minded, and very experienced in these things. For example, if you call it science, you alienate both the religious as well as those who are scientists who would not lump unusual effects into science. If you call it magick, then you alienate the hyper-rational or merely concrete and conventional. At some points you will see a breakdown in communication with anyone, but those with real knowledge and real understanding will not have a hard time getting back on track. The trick is to work with people where they are. 2) Consciousness plus intent produces magick. Anything that was produced by these two, even if present in the smallest way, is a magickal act or product. 3) This broad definition of magick, while more correct than less inclusive ones, can be limiting, so I will define two subsets of magick for the sake of discussion: a. Ordinary Magick: that which most people wouldn’t call magick, and involves what the ordinary person generally believes to be simple intentions leading to actions, like lifting a spoon or composing a symphony. For the sake of clarity, I will call ordinary magickal effects simply ordinary effects. b. Extraordinary Magick: includes the levels of causal effects that are beyond what most people consider the ordinary world of cause and effect, i.e. the realm that science, with the occasional exception of particle physics, considers mythical. In short, what most people would call magick, regardless of whether or not they believe in it, would fall into this realm, including magickal effects from “ordinary actions,” that is effects beyond what ordinary people imagine come from what they misperceive to be simple, non-magickal acts, something I term Collateral Magick. For the sake of clarity, I will call extraordinary magickal effects simply magickal effects, realizing that this may cause confusion in those not understanding the full implications of the broad definition of magick. 4) The more we increase our ability to concentrate and to perceive reality clearly, the more we will begin to perceive the extraordinary magickal aspects of reality. 5) Magick can be looked at from two points of view: a. From the ultimate, in which all that occurs is the natural, impersonal unfolding of the lawful pattern of totally interconnected causality. b. From the relative, in which each individual Agent has the power to influence their field of experience/universe/life. c. The combination of understanding of Ordinary Magickal effects and Relative Reality is something I will call loosely Conventional reality. 6) That leads to the degree to which the act is consciously rather than unconsciously seen as a magickal act. a. For instance, an ordinary, relatively non-magickally oriented person might, in a moment of rage, suddenly decide that they wish to send that rage flying against the person they are enraged by. If they consciously understand that this act was as obviously magickal it is, it is more likely to be tempered by their own moral and philosophical codes than if it is not viewed as the clearly magickal act that it is. Thus, we have Conscious and Unconscious Magick. b. By way of another example, someone might just be walking around in a self-obsessed rage with no obvious awareness that this internal state is very likely to have significant real-world consequences of some kind, and thus this would be an example of Unconscious Magick. c. Obviously, as the vast majority of people do not think that their every intersection of consciousness and intent is magickal, then from this point of view the vast majority of their magickal acts will be unconscious ones, again meaning that they are not recognized to be as causal as they are. d. I would very much like to say that Unconscious Magickal acts are likely less powerful or effective than Conscious Magickal acts, but I unfortunately do not believe this to be true, which is one way of viewing the primary problem facing the world today. e. Said another way, the failure of the average person to consider their every intent a magickal act with implications beyond what they ordinarily imagine it has and to thus fail to have a potent impetus to apply a Moral and Philosophical Code to their every waking and dreaming intention results in a huge amount of Collateral Unconscious Magick, much of which is ammoral, unkind and uncompassionate, as well as unskillful. 7) These definitions of magick and the ultimate and relative points of view help define various groups of people: a. In general, people may be defined by the degree to which they directly perceive the magickal aspects of reality, both the Ordinary and the Extraordinary. b. They may be further classified into the degree to which they perceive the ultimate aspects of reality, which include such qualities as: i. Complete Interdependence ii. Perfect Lawful Causality iii. Total Agencylessness iv. Total Centerpointlessness v. Total Subjectlessness vi. That Manifestation=Awareness both ontologically and geo-spacially. vii. Atemporality viii. Total Boundarylessness 8) To the degree that the relative perspective is valid, it must be noted that where our experience field overlaps someone else’s experience field, there is an interplay of forces shaping that junction, specifically the consciousness and intent of each of those perceiving that junction. In this case, the difference between belief, intent and force is an arbitrary one. 9) The corollary of this is that the less obvious the junction of experience fields, the less obvious the interplay. This has important implications for those who practice magick when we examine the next few points. 10) Clearly, different effects may occur if the interplay/overlap is more or less overt, particularly if the beings involved have differing paradigms of what is possible. That is, if some of the beings involved think that some things are impossible and other beings involved think that those same things are possible, there is a set up for very deep conflict. 11) Our expectations, beliefs, previous experiences, and paradigms color what we perceive, which is to say, they have a direct effect on our field of experience and life. This effect is actually a very powerful one. 12) Most people don’t have a well-developed understanding of the vast and complex terrain of the magickal world. 13) This simple fact is an extraordinarily powerful magickal force, something I will generically label “The Field of Disbelief.” While not nearly as static or simple an entity as this name would imply, the general nature of its effects can be commented upon in crude terms. The Field of Disbelief is actually a field of beliefs about how things are. 14) The Fields of Disbelief may vary radically between people. For example, one person may consider a lucky rabbit’s foot to be very powerful, whereas another may have occasional premonitory dreams but think that the rabbit’s foot is pure superstition. One person may think that traveling out of body is not that unusual but may think that telekinesis is completely impossible. Some believe in angels, devils, spirits, fairies, pixies, trolls, and/or ghosts. Some think it possible to speak with the dead, heal by laying-on hands, read other people’s thoughts, or divine the past or the future. These are but a few examples of common magickal beliefs in modern times. 15) In general, the more people’s fields of experience you have overlapping, and the more obviously they overlap, the more Fields of Belief or Disbelief you have to deal with. In these circumstances, overt magickal acts that do not fit with the paradigms of these fields become more difficult. Ways to deal with this include: a. Giving up and not attempting magick. I call this Dodging the Issue, or Settling for the Lowest Common Denominator. Magick is happening regardless of whether or not you wish to acknowledge it, and past a certain point this option is not really possible. b. Attempting magick in private, with the thrust of the work being to cause effects that will have minimal if any obvious overlap with anyone else’s field of experience. I call this Private Magick. It is clearly the easiest of the lot. However, like all the others, still involves the most important Field of Disbelief of them all: yours. c. Attempting magick that does overlap with other’s fields of experience but does so in ways that all of the effects appear to either be ordinary, or are at least not noticed to be magickal. I call this Stealth Magick, as one gets in under the radar of the Field of Disbelief. i. Example: you are in a conference in a small, poorly ventilated room with a guy waving around a dry-erase marker with the cap off. The solvent smell is completely annoying. After careful consideration of the ethics involved, you will him to put the cap back on the marker when he is not writing with it. This is done with no obvious external signs that you are doing this. He puts the cap back on the marker and doesn’t notice at all. The act was clearly magickal but didn’t run into anyone’s Field of Disbelief. ii. This example brings up another sub-point of great profundity: it is impossible to distinguish between spell casting and prognostication. It is purely a matter of convention. One could just as easily say that your internal experience of willing him to do something was actually just clues about what was going to happen anyway. Causality doesn’t care one way or the other. d. Attempting to work with the specific holes in a person’s or a select group of people’s Field of Disbelief, thus working specifically in ways that they truly believe are possible, so that you do not overtly run into the blocks in their Field of Disbelief. I call this Public Consensual Magick, as there was a consensus as to what was possible. Obvious examples include such things as faith healing and fortune telling. As people are bound to talk, this almost always enters the next category: e. Attempting to work in public ways that directly contradict a person or group’s Field of Disbelief. This can be done, but the backlash tends to be impressive and often much more harmful to the practitioner than to those whose paradigms were challenged. I call this Public Non-consensual Magick. Important points about this are: i. It can be astounding how dense people can be in the face of things that might challenge their paradigms. The connections people can miss and experiences they can simply seem to forget happened or compartmentalize away can be amazing. While this can be very useful for the magickal practitioner, it is not an effect that one wants to count on to happen in the face of repetition, nor even count on the first time. ii. People often react negatively towards those whose paradigms diverge too radically from their own. This is instinctual and while these reactions can be clothed in the accepted institutions, laws and decorum of the times, nonetheless they can be extremely detrimental to the magickal practitioner. iii. We can look to myth and legend for illumination on this point. Consider a medieval setting and the reaction that various non-magickal people or groups might have towards various magickal ones. Note the common elements of denial, fear, anger, bargaining and manipulation. 1. The local ruler might size up the old wizard in the lone tower in the hill and either believe that he was just an old wacko, or if he believed he had some power would want to know how to keep him on his side and his chances of doing so. Could he be bought, seduced, or coerced through threat or otherwise manipulated? 2. The local townspeople might know of a witch out in the forest. Many would fear her. Some would seek her out for help with love, illness, or quarrels. Others might think she was just an old madwoman. Religious people might think she was in league with Satan and burn her at the stake. 3. Reactions like these take place in modern times all over the world and in “civilized” societies. The more your basic paradigms diverge from those around you and the more obvious you are about this, the stronger the reactions you will encounter. Consider gays being killed just for being gay, or people of one religion or political party killing another. f. Attempting to alter the paradigms and expectations of a person or group before performing Public Magick, thus changing it into Targeted Public Magick. Skeptics would call this suggestion. I would call it education. 16) Another extremely important point about having magickal experiences is that your paradigms will begin to diverge from those around you who don’t or haven’t yet. There is no way around this. The more times you see visions, travel out of body, do energy work, trace glowing pentagrams in the air, speak with spirits, shift into altered states of consciousness, manipulate the world in various extraordinary ways or understand aspects of ultimate reality, the more you will be out of alignment with “Conventional Reality,” not that you could get two people to agree exactly what that was. Real practical wisdom involves working with this to everyone’s benefit or at least not to anyone’s detriment if you can help it. 17) There is a difference between one’s inner world diverging from “the non-magickal norm” and one’s outer world diverging from it. This has to do with external marks of being “different”, such as unusual clothes, tattoos, hairstyles, props (such as wands, daggers, pentacles, crosses, amulets, etc.), special languages, special symbols on one’s belongings, etc. While having cool and unusual props can be great fun, giving one a sense of there being something special and symbolic in what one does or just getting attention or both, they can also cause adverse effects on one’s jobs and public relationships. These props and trappings may also attract people of like mind, and so are, like everything, a mixed blessing. 18) While props have their advantages, particularly as they may work with deeper parts of your own Magickal Brain to short-circuit part of your own Field of Disbelief as well as to focus and firm-up various aspects of your Vision and Intent, there are reasons to get used to working without them, as if you are going to do Stealth Magick it is much easier if you are prop and trapping free. 19) The counterpoint to this is that props can alter people’s Fields of Disbelief based upon their own internal paradigm conflicts, just as it can alter your own. A person who claims to not believe in magickal things may still react strongly to something like a provocative tantric idol, a statue of the Virgin Mary, or an incense-filled room decorated with curtains with a magick circle and its associated symbols drawn on the floor, creating the possibility of doing more Consensual Magick. 20) Another important factor influencing the interaction of any Magickal act and people&amp;#039;s reactions to it is the timing of the act. There is Immediate Magick and Delayed Magick. a. Immediate Magick is obviously magick that has an immediate effect: You wish the candle flame to move, a few seconds later it moves. Obviously, Immediate Magick is more impressive to all involved, including you, and thus much more likely to garner stronger reactions if it falls outside of the categories of Private Magick or Stealth Magick. b. Delayed Magick often is of broader and more complicated scope: You wish for some complex work situation to work out in your favor, and 2 months later it does. This sort of magick can be much more satisfying in some ways, as typically it involves things that in the grand scheme of one&amp;#039;s life are of more import, but it obviously lacks the thrill of well-done Immediate Magick. It is much more often done as Private or Stealth Magick, but if you advertised it and turned it into Public Magick, however consensual, bad reactions are still often forthcoming, and Fields of Disbelief will have to be dealt with. All things being equal, Delayed Magick is usually easier than Immediate Magick. 21) The example of the candle flame moving vs the work situation resolving raises another important consideration: there is magick that works within what might appear to be natural causal mechanisms and effects, e.g. the work situation resolving, and magick that works by what are, for most, clearly extraordinary or unnatural magickal methods and effects, e.g. the candle flame moving. For lack of better terms, and defaulting to limited and inaccurate paradigms, I call these, naturally enough, Natural Magick and Unnatural Magick. a. Natural Magick is definitely magickal, and yet the way that everything worked out could very reasonably be explained by a so-called &amp;#034;rational&amp;#034; or &amp;#034;scientific&amp;#034; person as being totally within the laws of what they think of as ordinary reality. b. Unnatural Magick is also definitely magickal, and much more in line with what most people think of as magick, in that something truly extraordinary seemed to happen, such that a so-called &amp;#034;rational&amp;#034; or &amp;#034;scientific&amp;#034; person will have to resort to some very complicated mental gymnastics to try to fit the occurrence within the standard laws of reality, and this may include you. All things being equal, Unnatural Magick is generally harder than Natural Magick. 22) Also influencing the likely degree of success, we have the degree of Alignment between your True Desire and the Specifics of the magickal result you ask for, which is to say the degree to which you know what you really want and your willingness to ask for that specific thing. This simple concept is one of the very hardest aspects of good magickal work. This breaks down into its two component parts: a. The first part is the degree to which you actually want the thing at all. As the Force of Desire is the driving force behind magick, if you are actually Apathetic about the outcome, the force behind the magickal act will likely be little, and if you are Passionate regarding the outcome, this is much more likely to result in something happening. b. Similarly, the degree to which you are Specific about exactly what outcome you wish and exactly how that will come about will have an influence on the outcome, with the more Specific you are often making it harder to get the outcome you wish, though certainly not always. The degree to which you should be Specific about the outcomes details is actually an extremely complicated topic. While there are definite exceptions depending on circumstances, in general it is advisable to ask for the most Non-Specific outcome that will still result in the fulfillment of the most core aspects of your True Desire. For example, it may often be best to ask for the best possible outcome rather than asking for a very specific outcome, though this is not always true. 23) In a similar vein, we have your ability to Feel Into the Specifics of the Web of Causality that relates to your specific True Desire. This has three aspects: a. The degree to which you can actually imagine the thing you wish for actually happening, in other words, its Plausibility. The greater the degree of Plausibility, the less of your own and everyone else&amp;#039;s Fields of Disbelief you will have to deal with. For instance, if you wished to point your finger at the Sun and have it suddenly vanish forever, this is obviously significantly less plausible than if you wished to have a black sphere appear between you and the Sun that only you could see. b. Deeper than that is the degree to which you can feel out the possible waves of resonance of implications of the thing you truly desire actually happening. c. Finally, there are the issues about how you feel about those possible waves of resonant Implications, as you may be just fine with the central object of desire manifesting, but you may not be with all of the ways that happened or what results from that happening. For instance, you might wish acquire large amount of money suddenly, and your beloved grandfather dies, and you inherit the money, and then your sister and you go to court and fight over some portion of the will and ruin your otherwise ok relationship. The object of desire was attained, but the way that came to be and the implications of that happening both were clearly deeply problematic. Lastly, if you truly believed that your magickal act in some way contributed to his death, the money itself may feel so tainted that you might derive no enjoyment from it at all and instead feel pain and remorse. This might be summarized as the degree of Moral Conflict. 24) Related to this is the degree to which what from a relative point of view are independent Agents&amp;#039; intentions align with your own. Were we to view Reality as the sum total of the Fluxions of the Magickal Influence Clouds (of which Fields of Disbelief are a small-subpart) of the sum total of the Agents (defined as those things with consciousness and intent) in the Universe, then the degree to which your True Desire aligns with or is not explicitly countered by that sum total of Influence Clouds will also influence the outcome. In plain terms, if a bunch of beings have wished in line with, neutral towards, or in conflict with your own, this is significant. This I term the degree of Synchrony or Asynchrony. 25) Of great significance are also underlying abilities of the Agent performing the act. Very briefly: a. The degree of Concentration skills will have a direct effect on the power behind the act, and this is particularly true for Unnatural Magick and Immediate Magick, though it applies to all other types as well. Most magickal practitioners greatly under appreciate the degree to which very strong Concentration skills open doors to experiences and abilities. A hyper-concentrated mind becomes malleable, pliable, bright, and jumps to the task with great facility. At a certain point in concentration, suddenly things just happen by merely inclining to them. You wish to draw a symbol in the air: there it is, trailing off your finger like syrup. You wish to visualize an image: it appears fully formed, luminous, extremely detailed and radiant. You wish to jump out of body off the cushion, suddenly you are out, just like that. You wish to have deep intuition into some situation, there it is. You wish to see past lives, there they are. Learning to concentrate well, which usually takes days to weeks of practice to set up properly, opens a universe of ability that those who have never really learned to concentrate and set up that way might occasional visit in spurts and flickers but otherwise will never know. b. The Confidence of the Agent: never underestimate the ability of someone who truly believes they can succeed, or the degree to which a lack of confidence can scuttle an otherwise very well-set-up magickal act. c. The level of Singlemindedness of the Agent. Having the sum total of one&amp;#039;s attention, passion, and intent dedicated to one act is much more likely to result in stronger effects than the mind that is distracted or divided. d. The Familiarity of the Agent with that specific act will also make it much easier: practicing an act makes it easier and easier, with some notable exceptions that are too complicated to detail here. 26) There is also the issue of the Set-Up. Taking the time to really set the thing up right can make a large difference. The Set-Up is implied in multiple categories above, such as having good props, feeling the thing out, learning about the causal system you are trying to influence, really refining the degree of Specifics and the Alignment, and then doing the magical act at the right Time, in the right Setting, in the right Mood and the like will all have an influence on the outcome. It also generally involves rising up to the highest and most exalted state one can attain, particularly the highest jhana one can attain, leaving that state, and then resolving to have the magick occur with full and unbridled intent. 27) Finally, as the Web of Causality is so infinitely complicated, there are the factors that can&amp;#039;t possibly be known, and these will be generically and only somewhat appropriately called Luck. It could in many ways be considered the most important of the factors, but in this case Luck clearly favors the well-trained and well-prepared, though not always. 28) We now have enough categories to be able to flush out a large swath of categories of magick and how they relate to the Field of Disbelief, as well as how people are likely to react to them, and also how easy they are to pull off. On the one extreme, we have Unnatural Immediate Public Non-consensual Apathetic Poorly-Aligned Poorly-Felt-Out Morally-Conflicted Implausible Hyper-Specified Asynchronous Poorly-Concentrated Unconfident Distracted Unfamiliar Poorly-Set-Up Ill-timed Disgruntled Unlucky Magick in an Non-Conducive Setting, and the other extreme we have Natural Delayed Private Passionate Well-Aligned Well-Felt-Out Morally-Non-Conflicted Plausible Non-Specific Synchronous Well-timed Concentrated Confident Singleminded Joyous Familiar Well-set-up Lucky Magick in a Conducive Setting. Were one to put these on a spectrum, one would find that the closer one was to the former, the harder it is to pull off, and the closer one is to the latter, the easier it is to pull off. 29) That list of closely related concepts also clearly hints at how various factors might influence each other. For instance, Morally-Conflicted Magick is also likely Unconfident Magick, as is Unfamiliar Magick. Unconfident Magick is likely to be Distracted Magick. Poorly-Aligned Magick is likely to be Apathetic Magick, which itself is likely to be Poorly-Concentrated Magick, etc. 30) That leads to the next point, and brings things back into some sort of more Buddhist context: training the mind to have positive mental factors, moral motivations, and less-specific and more universal forms of well-wishing and compassion is thus an extremely good idea from a Magickal point of view, both for Ordinary Magick and Extraordinary Magick, meaning the sum total of intention and its effects. 31) Bringing it back home with a specific, the first 20 verses of the Dhammapada are salutary in many regards. http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/dhp/dhp.01.than.html 32) This leads to the obvious question: how does one train the mind to be clear, steady, concentrated, compassionate, loving, appreciative of the successes of others and equanimous? These, obviously, are the Brahma Viharas, qualities that often get overlooked in many magickal discussions, but I will claim are the key to Optimal Magick, with Optimal Magick being defined as the best magick that one could have come up with in that set of circumstances. 33) For those not familiar with the Brahma Viharas, they are: a. Loving-Kindness (Metta): the natural well-wishing for one&amp;#039;s self and all beings. b. Compassion (Karuna): the natural wishing that the suffering of one&amp;#039;s self and all beings will cease. c. Sympathetic Joy (Mudita): the natural appreciation of the successes, good fortunes and joys of ourselves and all beings. d. Equanimity (Upekkha): the feeling of peace that comes from realizing that all beings are the true heirs of their karma and that their well-being depends on their actions, and not on our wishes for them. 34) This notion of &amp;#034;best&amp;#034; obviously implies choices, and the relative assumption of choices, of will, and of an Agent that can make those choices is a good working assumption for all moral work, and for those with more direct and ultimate understandings, namely those of natural causality, empty unfolding, and selflessness, is still not contradictory to them, but becomes complementary instead. It also implies defined and findable criteria for &amp;#034;best&amp;#034; which obviously can&amp;#039;t be found, and thus either becomes on the one hand an article of Faith, and on the other hand, a meta-logic or vision-logic point of real understanding, or more often some fusion of both perspectives. 35) Brahma Viharas end up being the Theravadan Buddhist answer to the question of meditative training that most likely leads to Optimal Magick. There are other options, some closely related, in the other Buddhist frameworks, but I will write of that which I know the most about and leave the other methods to other authors. Let&amp;#039;s explore why: a. The Brahma Viharas are generally Private Magick, and even if you make them Public Magick, hardly anyone will object or find anything odd in wishing others well or the other three. b. The Brahma Viharas are not specific regarding the question of Immediate vs Delayed, and leaving that question makes for a more workable situation. c. In that same way, the Brahma Viharas are Non-Specific, meaning that they do not lay out any criteria for the outcome beyond the most general and fundamental benefit, a quality that nearly always makes magickal workings easier. d. The Brahma Viharas are not obviously Unnatural, though many might be surprised in learning the depth to which one can generate those feeling in the body and some of the other unusual experiences one can have while doing those practices. e. The Brahma Viharas are not likely to come up anyone&amp;#039;s Field of Disbelief, as who would really disbelieve that one might cultivate positive qualities like this? f. The Brahma Viharas are not likely to lead to Moral Conflict, except occasionally with the category of the &amp;#034;Enemy&amp;#034;, and thus, with this single exception, one can generally proceed in their cultivation not only without obvious Moral Conflict, but instead with a deep and galvanizing sense of Moral Imperative. g. Being as the Brahma Viharas cultivate what are clearly our deepest wishes for ourselves and others, they are with the rarest of exceptions totally Synchronous, and those aspects in which they are not are themselves good things to pay attention to for other practice reasons. h. Given that the Brahma Viharas tend to lend themselves to strongly positive feelings, they are self-reinforcing, and being self-reinforcing can naturally lend themselves to strong Singlemindedness, Confidence and Concentration. i. Given that there is no obvious time when the Brahma Viharas don&amp;#039;t seem to be a good idea, any time they are practiced they are obviously well-timed. j. Given that the Brahma Viharas require little formal setup beyond the phrases and then the feeling themselves, and given that as part of the setup it is easy to feel-out that all beings wish for happiness and the rest as we do, then it is hard to imagine an easier bit of magick to set up properly. k. As to Plausibility, it is possibly that some aspects of our wishes, say for the happiness of all beings to always increase, may seem implausible, but that we wish it for ourselves and others is obviously not, and this practice is about cultivating the feeling of those wishes, them being their own reward even if they do nothing other than simply occur within us, so, properly understood, Plausibility is easily met. l. As to the Influence Clouds that emanate from the wishes of other beings, given that the Brahma Viharas at their core essentially automatically resonate with the deepest wishes of all beings, no better natural resonance and amplification could possibly be asked for. m. As to Luck, I am perhaps being a bit magickal in my thinking here, but it is hard not to imagine that should there be any such thing, that is favors these most fundamentally beneficial workings. n. The last factors are to make the Brahma Viharas Familiar and to practice them in a Conducive Setting. The first is simply a question of practice, and the latter is simply realizing that any setting may be a good place to practice these qualities that are so needed in the world. o. In short, the Brahma Viharas naturally meet all the criteria that make for the most powerful and beneficial Magick, and it is actually hard to come up with anything else that does this in quite that way. p. In summary, it is highly recommended that you make some time for the Brahma Viharas. 36) Thus, it is worth knowing how to practice the Brahma Viharas. Excellent instructions can be found in the Visuddhimagga in Chapter IX. A summary of those instructions appears below: a. Pick one of the Brahma Viharas, specifically: i. Loving-Kindness ii. Compassion iii. Sympathetic Joy iv. Equanimity b. If practicing formally, seat one&amp;#039;s self in a comfortable posture, if not, practice in whatever posture one finds oneself in. c. Reflect on the dangers of the quality of mind that the Brahma Vihara chosen most directly counters: i. Loving-kindness directly counters hatred. Reflect on the dangers in harboring hatred. ii. Compassion directly counters cruelty. Reflect on the dangers of harboring feelings of cruelty. iii. Sympathetic Joy directly counters envy. Reflect on the dangers of harboring envy. iv. Equanimity directly counters both greed and hatred. Reflect on the dangers of greed and hatred. d. Each of the Brahma Viharas are associated with a specific phrase that is used to cultivate the feeling until the feeling of the Brahma Vihara can itself be taken as object, and so the next step is to learn the phrases for that Brahma Vihara. The phrases may be modified to suit your tastes, and appear in various forms in various places. Each phrase is used to extend the quality of the Brahma Vihara to various categories of beings, so a blank is included in the phrase that one fills in with the appropriate category as one progresses through them. Here I render them as: i. For Loving-Kindness: May _____ be happy. May ____ be peaceful. May _____ be safe. May _____ live with ease. ii. For Compassion: May _____ be free from suffering. May their suffering finally cease. iii. For Sympathetic Joy: May the happiness and good fortune of _____ always increase. iv. For Equanimity: ____ is/are the true heirs of their karma. ____&amp;#039;s happiness depends upon their actions and not upon my wishes for them. e. The phrases in the short form of the practice are extended towards various beings and classes of beings in this traditional order: i. To one&amp;#039;s self first (with the exception of Equanimity, for which this first one is somewhat philosophically problematic), e.g. May I be happy, etc. ii. To a friend (try to avoid those for whom one feels sexual attraction, as that tends to distract the practice, though if one gets better at this one might try to sort those two out later on) iii. To a neutral person iv. To a person whom one bears ill-will (traditionally called the &amp;#034;enemy&amp;#034; or &amp;#034;worthy opponent&amp;#034;) v. To all beings everywhere f. When working with the categories in this way, it is traditional to stick to the easy categories first, developing them until the feeling is strong, and then shifting when one feels confident to the harder categories. This is in keeping with the Magickal Principles of Familiarity and Confidence. g. One may also extend the feelings in various directions: i. In front ii. In back iii. To the sides iv. Above v. Below vi. And all around pervading everything everywhere h. As one repeats the phrases, one tries to connect to the fundamental feeling implied in the words. i. One must guard against both the far enemies (those things listed above that they directly counter), and also the Near Enemies, which are those near approximations of the Brahma Viharas that are yet not the genuine quality, but impostors. These are: i. For Loving-Kindness, the near enemy is desire. ii. For Compassion, the near enemy is pity. iii. For Sympathetic Joy, the near enemy is also desire. iv. For Equanimity, the near enemy is indifference. j. As the feeling of the Brahma Vihara grows, one turns that feeling into a samatha object, such that one takes that feeling and develops it directly, working with it, expanding it, gently coaxing it through any blockages or sticking points one finds, extending it through the body until it pervades the whole body, and finally takes the feeling far out into space. k. In this way, one may take the first three Brahma Viharas to the Third Jhana, as they still contain a pleasant feeling of some sort, and the Fourth Brahma Vihara (Equanimity) to the Fourth Jhana and beyond, as Equanimity is the basis of the Formless Realms. l. As barriers or distractions or issues arise during the practice, we soften, connect with the deep and fundamental wish implied by the Brahma Vihara we have chosen, and slowly extend that Brahma Vihara through that barrier to pervade everything. m. Much additional material may be found in Sharon Salzberg&amp;#039;s Loving-Kindness, The Revolution Art of Happiness, which, while mentioning nothing about developing these into deep jhanic states, still outlines many useful aspects of the practices.}}} &lt;/p&gt;</summary> <dc:creator>Daniel M. Ingram</dc:creator> <dc:date>2012-09-05T07:39:46Z</dc:date> </entry> <entry> <title>Vipassana 1.8</title> <link rel="alternate" href="http://localhost/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/10303/Vipassana" /> <author> <name>Tommy M</name> </author> <id>http://localhost/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/10303/Vipassana</id> <updated>2012-08-24T22:28:19Z</updated> <published>2012-08-24T22:28:19Z</published> <summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Vipassanā is a Pali term often translated as &amp;#034;clear-seeing&amp;#034; or &amp;#034;insight&amp;#034;, but which is most commonly used to refer to a specific type of meditation known as &amp;#034;insight practice&amp;#034;; through seeing &lt;a href="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/Main/Three%20Characteristics?p_r_p_185834411_title=Three%20Characteristics"&gt;the true nature of all sensations&lt;/a&gt; clearly and with precision, a practitioner can gradually remove the veil of ignorance, (Pali://avijjā&lt;em&gt;) itself the cause of fundamental suffering.&lt;/em&gt; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;The basic technique itself involves bare attention to the moment-by-moment sensate experience of reality, but the specifics of the approach and way in which it&amp;#039;s presented differ depending on tradition. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;h4 id="section-Vipassana-Theravada"&gt;Theravada&lt;a class="hashlink" href="#section-Vipassana-Theravada"&gt;#&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h4&gt;&lt;p&gt;In Theravada, emphasis is placed on experiential observation of The Three Characteristics, as well as the Four Noble Truths so that a yogi may come to understand directly how all phenomena are subject to change, devoid of self, and inherently unsatisfactory. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Vipassana is practiced in many ways, but the &amp;#034;noting&amp;#034; technique developed by Mahasi Sayadaw is by far the most common method practiced on The Dharma Overground. Some other methods include body-scanning as taught by S.N. Goenka; observation of the Four Foundations of Mindfulness; bare sensate attentiveness. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;h4 id="section-Vipassana-Mayahana"&gt;Mayahana&lt;a class="hashlink" href="#section-Vipassana-Mayahana"&gt;#&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h4&gt;&lt;p&gt;While also utilizing some of the same methods as the Theravadan traditions, Mahayana introduces the &amp;#034;Two Truths Doctrine&amp;#034; and the concept of Śūnyatā, or Emptiness. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;h4 id="section-Vipassana-Mahamudra+&amp;+Dzogchen"&gt;Mahamudra &amp;amp; Dzogchen&lt;a class="hashlink" href="#section-Vipassana-Mahamudra+&amp;+Dzogchen"&gt;#&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h4&gt;&lt;p&gt;Effected by many practices, including: &lt;/p&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;a href=""&gt;Mahasi Noting&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;</summary> <dc:creator>Tommy M</dc:creator> <dc:date>2012-08-24T22:28:19Z</dc:date> </entry> <entry> <title>MBMC 4.2 (minor-edit)</title> <link rel="alternate" href="http://localhost/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/10303/MBMC" /> <author> <name>Daniel M. Ingram</name> </author> <id>http://localhost/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/10303/MBMC</id> <updated>2012-08-24T06:13:18Z</updated> <published>2012-08-24T06:13:18Z</published> <summary type="html">&lt;h2 id="section-MBMC-MBMC+(Penang,+Malaysia)"&gt;MBMC (Penang, Malaysia)&lt;a class="hashlink" href="#section-MBMC-MBMC+(Penang,+Malaysia)"&gt;#&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h2&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt; UNFORTUNATELY, AS OF THE LAST UPDATE, THIS CENTER CAN&amp;#039;T BE RECOMMENDED DUE TO VARIABILITY IN TEACHER AVAILABILITY, BUT HOPEFULLY THIS WILL CHANGE SOON.&lt;/strong&gt; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Name of Center:&lt;/strong&gt; Malaysian Buddhist Meditation Center (MBMC)&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Address:&lt;/strong&gt; 355, Jalan Mesjid Negeri, 11600 Penang, Malaysia&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Phone Number:&lt;/strong&gt; +604 - 282 2534 and +604 - 282 2534&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Website:&lt;/strong&gt; http://mbmcpg.bravehost.com (please use MS Internet Explorer) There is no information at this link, it is just a placeholder.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Contact Email:&lt;/strong&gt; lindatoh2001@yahoo.com &amp;amp; mbmcpg@yahoo.co.sg&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Tradition(s):&lt;/strong&gt; Theravada&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Technique(s):&lt;/strong&gt; Vipassana (Mahasi Sayadaw&amp;#039;s noting techniques)&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Teacher(s):&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; Sayadaw Nanda Siddhi from Nirodharama Meditation Centre should be there by the time Vasa starts in 2009. There is a little about him at this &lt;a href="http://www.goldess.com/index.php?option=com_content&amp;amp;task=view&amp;amp;id=23&amp;amp;Itemid=31&amp;amp;limit=1&amp;amp;limitstart=1"&gt;link &lt;/a&gt; &lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; U Thuzanza did not get his visa renewed and will be returning to a center in &lt;a href="http://www.panditarama.org/"&gt;Burma&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Cost:&lt;/strong&gt; 20 Malaysian ringgit (about $7) per day is charged for 10 days after which a donation of any amount is welcome.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Accommodations:&lt;/strong&gt; Male yogis get a shared dormitory room, shared bathrooms and showers. Female yogis stay in a kuti or hut, or depending on how full they are you might need to share a kuti; they are located behind the main building.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Facilities:&lt;/strong&gt; Two spacious and well ventilated meditation/walking halls, kitchen &amp;amp; dining hall. Accommodations are simple (no luxury) but they are comfortable enough not to cause any cultural shock. One additional small temples is used for monks.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Physical Setting:&lt;/strong&gt; Located at the beautiful island of Penang (also known as the “Pearl of the Orient”). Penang has a year-round equatorial climate which is warm and sunny (min 22°C/71°F, max 30°C/86°F), along with plentiful rainfall, especially during the southwest monsoon from April to September.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Food (Vegetarian/Vegan/etc.):&lt;/strong&gt; They serve mostly nonvegetarian meals. The food is delicious home-made Malaysian food. They serve fresh fruit at each meal. Usually the vegetarian meals are for the monks, if there is any extra, it is offered at the table. By the time you eat, the food is usually cold. (You must wait until the chanting is finished.)&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Retreat Length(s):&lt;/strong&gt; It is fairly flexible in terms of when you show up to begin a retreat there and when you leave.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Typical Schedule:&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; 4:00 Wake-up &lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; 4:30 Walking Meditation&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; 5:30 Sitting Meditation &lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; 6:30 Breakfast &lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; 7:00 Walking Meditation/Showering/Washing &lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; 8:00 Sitting Meditation&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; 9:00 Walking Meditation &lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; 10:00 Sitting Meditation&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; 11:00 Lunch &lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; 12:00 Walking Meditation/Showering/Washing/Rest&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; 13:00 Sitting Meditation &lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; 14:00 Walking Meditation &lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; 15:00 Sitting Meditation &lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; 16:00 Walking Meditation&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; 17:00 Sitting Meditation &lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; 18:00 Walking Meditation &lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; 19:00 Sitting Meditation &lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; 20:00 Walking Meditation&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; 21:00 Sitting Meditation &lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; 21:30 Metta-Chanting &lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; 22:00 Lights off&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Issues of Rites/Rituals:&lt;/strong&gt; Bowing to the teacher and in the meditation halls is a rule. Metta-Chanting is done daily before going to bed. &lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Issues of Proper Dress:&lt;/strong&gt; Preferable clothing would be loose cotton trousers and shirts / t-shirts - white top and bottom. (Do own hand washing).&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Issues of Etiquette:&lt;/strong&gt; Bowing to teachers and images is necessary &lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Issues of Language:&lt;/strong&gt; Instructions and Dharma talks are imparted in English. Some teachers are better with English than others. The Dharma talks are each Friday night, and on Sunday afternoon.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Logistical Issues:&lt;/strong&gt; In order to get there you have several options depending on your time and budget. From Kuala Lumpur you can:&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; fly to Penang Interational airport and then get a taxi.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; travel by train up to Butterworth and then take a bus to Georgetown. In Georgetown you can access the MBMC by taxi.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; travel with a Bus directly to Penang and then get a taxi.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Strengths:&lt;/strong&gt; Depending on the teacher, the time of year and activities going on, the teacher is accessible (almost any time, although interviews are given every two days). The teacher is well versed in the practical and theoretical aspects of the Pali Canon. The techniques and guidance are given in pure Mahasi style.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Weaknesses:&lt;/strong&gt; &lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; Heat, the heat in Penang has been unusually hot recently (depends on the season). &lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; Noise: The road near the MBMC can be quite noisy, and there is a foundry next door that has trucks entering and leaving most of the day. Depending on your temperament, it may or may not disturb your meditation. MBMC is embedded in a beautiful garden. There is a Thai Buddhist Temple located next door.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Other Comments:&lt;/strong&gt; All yogis (retreat participants) must take the 8 precepts:&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; Refrain from taking life (killing)&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; Refrain from taking what is not given (stealing)&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; Refrain from physical contact with the opposite gender&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; Refrain from false speech or frivolous talk (lying)&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; Refrain from taking intoxicants, drugs&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; Refrain from eating solid food after noon (12.00 pm) - Pls inform Sayadaw for gastric cases / special cases&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; Refrain from using fragrances and entertainment&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; Refrain from sleeping on high beds or luxurious cushions&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; You get to practice and live among monks and nuns. I find this extremely interesting and this will give you a more down to earth perspective of the practice.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Overall Impression:&lt;/strong&gt; &lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; Simply excellent! Great teacher, great techniques, great food and very supportive community and facilities. If you are looking for the real stuff, come and see. &lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; I have not been in any western-like vipassana retreat centers before, but I guess that the typical pitfalls of our way to (mis)understand Dharma have no space at the MBMC. -Mautelino&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Worthy of recommendation on the Dharma Overground?&lt;/strong&gt; &lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; Yes, I would recommend this center to other yogis. As a newbie in the Vipassana world, I must say that this experience was very important for me since I got to confirm that progress is possible if you follow the instructions with enough dedication and energy. &lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; There you will learn the real thing and do some progress.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt; &lt;strong&gt;Name of Person Reviewing the Center:&lt;/strong&gt; Guillermo Z and CCasey&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;p&gt;I must thank Daniel Ingram for the hint about this place. As he puts it: &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;#034;&lt;em&gt; [MBMC] is by far my favorite retreat center in the world. I absolutely love this place: great food, great instruction, great technique, nice meditation halls, it is safe and clean.... basically no worries about malaria, very inexpensive, and they speak English, in short, one of the rarest shining gems in the meditation world, the perfect fusion of best of the East and the West, like Burma without the hassles.&lt;/em&gt; &amp;#034; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;From CCasey: Was there in 2008, the water is not potable! Perhaps it was fine when Daniel was there but they have had many problems with the water system. They have drinking water brought in, or you may be able, if you arrange it, and they are out of drinking water to boil water in the kitchen &lt;/p&gt;</summary> <dc:creator>Daniel M. Ingram</dc:creator> <dc:date>2012-08-24T06:13:18Z</dc:date> </entry> </feed> 