An Eternal Now:
You had some experience, it is the I AM experience but not the unshakeable realization.
However these posts in 2008 by Thusness might be quite relevant for you:
Hi AEN, I read the link you left DZ, and I have to say, it really excited me , because I feel you have pointed out where I may be at, where I may be still clinging etc and why. Do you mind if I ask a favour, ill understand if its too much hassle because this post is pretty long , but is it possible you could attempt to diagnose me to an extent, and maybe just double check my practice that ive laid out at the end to see if Im at least on the right track. I would hate to think Im overemphasising one thing, and making no progress elsewhere as a result etc.
The post is long, but all the quotes are your own words so theres probably no need to read them properly if you get me.
Any advice or pointers would be greatly appreciated.
Im also aware that I may sound very overconfident here when I say "yep I can relate to this, that , etc". But to constantly play down my day to day experience doesnt serve as any use, because people then tend to advise you of things you already know.
On the flip side, Im not typing this to have my experiences validated or confirmed, Ive little interest in trying to prove where im 'at', the only thing that interests me is getting an honest assessment and being given the most optimum practice advice I can possibly get.
So shoot me down please if you feel Im getting ahead of myself regarding realizations claims.
Before I get quoting, here is brief summary of my experience to date...
- seperation between "me" and another object has taken a huge hit, I see no distance now between me and an object, however like mentioned in your post, there is still that clinging to a source.
- I cant self reflect anymore. its empty, if I ever do its when Im writing here about myself or talking to someone, when on my own this self reflection is next to impossible, even at times when looking in the mirror, however that isnt to claim that there isnt identification, attachment, and clinging going on by any means.
- that wow factor you talk of happens quite a bit when looking at nature, and Im at peace/empty most of the time, I know it can be FAR more intense than how im experiencing it at present because Ive touched on it.
- still a hint of an experiencer , even if its ridiculously subtle.
- bliss happens alot, not all the time.
- psychological fear and inhibitions still present but always fading, its taking more and more to bring it out. But for instance, today I have to make a call I dont want to make , and there is an inhibition about it, sort of putting it off. Its very sublte but remains there.
EXPERIENCE:
1. Pure Presence/Witness
In daily life, one may sense this as a background witnessing presence, a space-like awareness in the background of things. It is felt to be something stable and unchanging though we often lose sight of it due to fixation on the contents of experience or thoughts (like focusing on the drawing and losing sight of the canvas).
- I believe i first hit this a year ago, and was probably in denial that I Was losing sight of it, but since beginning more intense practice from 6 months ago onwards I believe it is now stable. If its what Im thinking, its the core of my perceptual shift from April 2011, Id call it an indescribable emptiness that for the most part does not go away, and with good concentration practice and a deepening of insight, becomes more and more prominent.
-I cant say I ever thought anything was being controlled by a higher intelligence etc, but have definitely experienced no personal doer alot, and still do quite alot, especially if its paid attention to. Sometimes I pay attention to it alot for the sake of self inquiry. And sometimes its very natural and obvious (walking down the street is usually when its most noticeable)
3.Non-duel into One mind.
Where subject and object division collapsed into a single seamless experience of one Naked Awareness.
- I have good reason to think that is what happened me in March, 2 months on now, and while the intensity of the change has subsided, the core experience that DID change hasnt really went away .
4. No-Mind
Where even the naked Awareness is totally forgotten and dissolved into simply scenery, sound, arising thoughts and passing scent. This is the experience of Anatta, but not the realization of Anatta. Explained later.
- No, I cant say I have ever completely 100% dropped the experiencer even if at times I got very good glimpses of it. Im happy Ive had glimpses though because it keeps me grounded in terms of practice and what to aim for.
5. Sunyata (Emptiness)
It is when the 'self' is completely transcended into dependently originated activity. The play of dharma. There is a difference between this as a peak experience and the realization of emptiness/dependent origination. Explained later.
- Im not sure I fully understand this, so Im assuming I havent even had an experience of this.
REALIZATION:I AM:
Self-realization is attained when there is a certainty of Being - an irrefutable and doubtless realization of Pure Presence-Existence or Consciousness or Beingness or Existence as being one's true identity. There is nothing clearer or undoubtable or irrefutable than You! Eureka
- I cant say i can relate to this, at least not until you talk of it being experience in a NDNCDIMOP way.
...not even any sense of self. It is all-pervasive and limitless, and is often described as being like a raindrop (sense of individuality) falling/dissolving into the ocean and fusing with the whole, and in this infinite oceanic Presence there can be no sense of individuality (especially when this phase of experience and realization has matured in terms of intensity and impersonality).
- I experience this quite alot alright, even right now as I type I would say this is the case on a subtle level.
Therefore even though the I AM experience is itself non-dual, one still clings to a dualistic view which therefore affects the way we perceive reality and the world. This dualistic framework distorts a non-dual experience by clinging or reifying that experience into an ultimate Background which is merely an image of a previous non-dual experience made into a Self, ultimate and unchanging.
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Also, in my experience the I AM experience after the initial realization is tainted with a slight sense of personality and locality.
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this level, the I AM is separated from Personality, and it is seen as if everything and everyone in the world share the same source or same space, like if a vase breaks, the air inside the vase completely merges with the air of the entire environment such that there is no sense of a division between an 'inside space' or an 'outside space', such that everything shares the same space, as an analogy of all-pervading presence.
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- I can say with a fair degree of confidence that I can definitely relate to all this alright, both the vase analogy, but also the clinging, and sense of personality and locality (even if very subtle)
2. The Realization of Non-Dual, into One Mind
the first time I had it was when looking at a tree - at that point the sense of an observer suddenly disappeared into oblivion and there is just the amazing greenery, the colours, shapes, and movement of the tree swaying with the wind with an amazingly intense clarity and aliveness as if every leaves on the tree is crystal-like. This had a lot of 'Wow' factor to it because of the huge contrast between the Self-mode of experience and the No-Self mode of experience
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My personal experience is that from day 1, more than a year ago this was the most noticeable thing about my whole shift in perception, simply looking at trees and nature, cars moving, people moving, and almost feeling a sweet clear warmth off it, the Wow was definitely there,
HOWEVER, this came and went alot as the year progressed, sometimes it went entirely, other times it was so intense that the wonder of it would genuinely excite me. Sadly , often the intense times were after strange circumstances like drinking alcohol the night before, or after going for a long long run.
That said,since March, most of my days are like a subtle version of your description, sometimes a little more boring but there, other times very intense, that leaves me not being sure whether Im still in 'experience' mode or if Ive actually attained the insight. I know it may seem arrogant and presumptious to beleive Im hitting these type of realizations so soon, but I can honestly say that a simple walk down the street, or sitting out the back garden is , for the most part, a very enjoyable experience for me now, i.e. if the settings are just right (warm, sunny, slightly breezy) I could sit there for quite a while watching a tree blowing in the wind., not to mention a sort of wonder at the fact that there is no real distance or seperation between "me" and the tree(or whatever). I know this is very airy fairy sounding stuff, but I have to honestly convey that it is the core of my experience now.
And even after seeing through this separation, you may have the realization of non-dual but still fall into substantial non-duality, or One Mind. Why? This is because though we have overcome the bond of duality, our view of reality is still seeing it as 'inherent'. Our view or framework has it that reality must have an inherent essence or substance to it, something permanent, independent, ultimate. So though everything is experienced without separation, the mind still can't overcome the idea of a source.
- This reminds me of my experience now, I can definitely relate to this clinging/trap/beleif.
It should be understood that even in this phase, at the peak of One Mind, one will have glimpses of No Mind as *temporary peak experiences* where the source/Awareness is temporarily forgotten into 'just the scenery, the taste, the sound, etc'. Very often, people try to master the state of No Mind without realizing anatta, thus no fundamental transformation of view can occur.
- I fear this is what I may be doing right now, also , im not sure if im ever hitting those temporary peak experiences.
3. Realization of Anatta:
Here, experience remains non-dual but without the view of 'everything is inside me/everything is an expression of ME/everything is ME' but 'there is just thoughts, sight, sound, taste' – just manifestation.
- Im not even sure if im hitting this in my peak experiences, maybe something very close , but it seems so damn certain that I dont think I could say with confidence that Im even having brief experiences of this.
the moment you say there is an ‘Actual World Here/Now’, or a Mind, or an Awareness, or a Presence that is constant throughout all experiences, that pervades and arise as all appearances, you have failed to see the 'no-linking', 'disjointed', 'unsupported' nature of manifestation – an insight which breaks a subtle clinging to an inherent ground, resulting in greater freedom.
- sounds like my experience alright ( the belief of the linking/supported/jointed nature that is)
When the sense of self/Self is sufficiently deconstructed, you also begin to experience everything as being a stream of activities that dependently originates. You directly see and experience everything as the activity/total exertion of the universe, i.e. the totality of causes and conditions giving rise to this moment of manifestation. Effectively, there is no self, no universe, no solidity, and all there ever is is an interdependent process of causes and conditions meeting to give rise to an activity, followed by another interaction that gives rise to more activities, ad infinitum.
- again, with a great degree of confidence I would say this is NOT my experience.
4. The Realization of Emptiness (Shunyata)
Having thoroughly read this your description of this realization, I can say that I havent attained, but do have at least an intellectual understanding of it, and perhaps from time to time had very subtle glimpses of it.
Implication of view:
Non-conceptuality does not mean non-attachment. For example when you realize the I AM, you cling to that pure non-conceptual beingness and consciousness as your true identity. You cling to that pure non-conceptual thought very tightly – you wish to abide in that purest state of presence 24/7. This clinging prevents us from experiencing Presence AS the Transience. This is a form of clinging to something non-conceptual. So know that going beyond concepts does not mean overcoming the view of inherency and its resultant clinging clinging. Even in the substantial non-dual phase, there is still clinging to a Source, a One Mind – even though experience is non-dual and non-conceptual. But when inherent view is dissolved, we see there is absolutely nothing we can cling to, and this is the beginning of Right View and the Path to Nirvana - the cessation of clinging and craving.
-This is what gives me confidence in having attained I AM, and perhaps non-dual, but nothing more. I cant understand how people would settle with this, the way I see it is, if there is ANY form of conflict, even in the most subtle subtle way, even if your life has become incredibly liberated and 100 free-er than before, then you still have lots of work to do.
I have read the difference between your gradual and direct, and feel Im doing both, as I mentioned a posts earlier, I have begun to drop the "no self" dogma, and tried to gear my practice elsewhere...
You can put self-inquiry aside. Instead you should focus on the four aspects, in my case with impersonality first, then later emphasis shifted to the aspect of intensity of luminosity (practice shifts from experiencing luminosity as the background Source to experiencing luminosity as the foreground sensate world and aggregates - sights, sounds, bodily sensations and so on), plus with a particular form of contemplation that challenges the view of boundaries, subject and object, inside and outside.
Could I ask what do you mean exactly by luminosity, I see you mention this quite a bit, but am unsure as to what you are referring to.
Regarding my practice, could you tell me if Im on the right track, whether Im wrong about what realizations Ive attained or not...
1. Ive began attempting to investigate the subject/object split (id been doing this for a while, but just not realizing I was doing it specifically the way it was described here, my descsription was that I was attempting to see how all experience was only that, an experience, e.g. 'that object over there is only an image here' etc etc).
2. Vipassana during sits, and during walks, and whever I think of it during the day.
3. Concentration breathing during sits, (usually I bring this into a more vipasssana excersise after approx 20 mins)
4. I spend alot of the rest of the day simply sinking into the reality around me , or experiencing no doer etc, however Im not sure if all this is productive, it doesnt feel productive, it more feels like im resting in whatever Ive attained so far.
5. Self inquiry,"is this the self?" from time to time, some intense looking also, basically a repeat of the direct pointing process I went through to attain the initial 'opening'.
Can I ask aswell, how did your progression in terms of reduction in suffering go? I know we all come from different 'suffering' backgrounds, my main one being fear over anything else.
Did each new insight/realization drop another chunk of suffering quite quickly? Was it a gradual thing? Did your stream of temporary experiences alone help you reduce suffering for the long term or were you completely reliant on realization?
Did you add anything else to the mix like challenging your beliefs if something is bothering you?
Personally I find simple breathing concentration is doing wonders, but I cant tell if its that, or the other types of insight that is contributing most. But I really wont be without any form of conflict until there is no fear, at least pscychological fear that arises from conceptual beleifs, ( what I mean by that is I wont mind if I feel fear/adrenalin if it looks like im about to be knocked down by a car for instance)
If Im to be perfecfly honesty, I even place the eradication of fear a priority over attaining all the realizations. While Ive made great progress, and while for the most part , nobody in my life would probably even notice any of my fear, I still find myself opting not to do tougher things, or at least putting things off out of fear. And I can say with confidence that since I was a child, fear and the protection of an ego have been the core reasons I have always "played it safe" and thus put limits on the experience of my life compare to even some very 'unawakened' people (ok off topic rant over !!)
I know this is a long post, if you can offer any help Id really appreciate it thanks.