Hello! Anybody read this book? Amazon Link

It was recomended by a friend of mind, and I'd like to know your opinion!

Cheers,
Andy

I found that western books on chakras and kundalini can be placed upon an axis. On one side of the axis you will find books like Anodea Judith's Wheels of Life, which are full of new-agy fluff-talk about "balancing your emotions" and whatnot. On the other end you find such books as Arthur Avalon's The Serpent Power and Shyam Sundar Goswami's Layayoga: The ultimate Guide to the Chakras and Kundalini. On this side of the axis, books become very technical, a bit like a dense reference manual for a complex piece of machinery.

Being a DhO guy, I'm guessing you're more interested in the later kind, and from the publisher's synopsis I believe that this book is of the former type.

I would recommend Arthur Avalon's book to keep as a reference. However, in order to get the kundalini process started I would recommend the technique "Spinal Breathing Pranayama" explained in the lessons at www.aypsite.org. Beware that this technique is VERY powerful, and that kundalini awakening should be done with some care. But it feels damn' good! :-D

Cheers,
Bruno

Thanks Bruno! As you can see I know nothing about kundalini... what have you found working with kundalini so far?

Cheers!
Andy

Kundalini is quite impressive and can be very intense. For instance it will frequently move around the body and "fix" stuff. In my case I got completely rid of my back pain and TMJ after experiencing kundalini phenomena in the back and jaw. Now it regularly flows inside my eyeballs, we'll see where that goes.

Also I seem to have had a very recent development related with kundalini. I've started having something like "kundalini-orgasms" repeatedly throughout the day. They begin with a "gathering" sensation in my perineum and testicles, as if energy was being sucked into this area. Then the energy is "thrusted" up into the spine until it reaches the third-eye region in the middle of the eyebrows, and then it might go down again through the front channel into the intestines, or into my eyes, and so on. Very, very intensely pleasurable, sometimes it is even scary.

http://www.biologyofkundalini.com/
ive been reading this e-book on and off. i've only gone thru some of the earlier stuff but it has been highly helpful!

Bruno: Is that why your jaw is like that in your pic becoz of the TMJ?

on another note:
some symptoms it describes sounds to me like stuff i experience getting stream entry/2nd path. i don't know how this relates to 'Cycling' or MTCTB terminologies but i see the similarities. Is Kundalini awakening = stream-entry?

cheers for the info guys!

To quote Daniel, top of page 176:

"Many descriptions of Kundalini awakening are talking about this stage [Arising and Passing]"



Andy

Actually, from my theoretical understanding of it, Kundalini phenomena do happen during A & P, but unless they are maintained by specific kundalini-oriented practices, will not continue to happen. To be more specific, what I have read was that kundalini is essential in realizing subject = object, which will not happen without noticeable kundalini interference.

Yoga philosophy says that kundalini is the "creative-power" aspect of unity (which is Paranashiwa, or "Ultimate" Shiva).

According to my understanding, kundalini awakening is a rousing of this energy, which would otherwise lie dormant, in the root chakra. After it awakens, it is frequently described that kundalini will "push through" the spine. This is my experience. I had an incredible sensation of pressure a the base of the spine, until it finally "pushed through," opening each chakra in turn bottom to top.

However, I have also had chakra-openings from top to bottom. But in this case it felt different -- a bit as if the chakra had opened to let energy flow into it, while the kundalini-openings resulted in energy flowing out (and where much more dramatic).

Nowadays the center of my spine constantly buzzes with electricity. This is the one certain indicator of awakened kundalini.

Bruno i hope u dont mind im curious about kundalini.

how did u activate ur kundalini?

so its different and independent from 'cycling' via insight meditation?

does it make you get enlightened faster? and does it compliment insight meditation?

do you know if this kundalini is the same as http://innerdance.multiply.com/video/item/2

Not at all DNY, I realized that I I love to talk on and on about my own experience, which is OK because I'm slowly learning the same pleasure in hearing more and more about others'.

Best way to get kundalini started is to apply awareness up and down the spine, from the base of the spine to the point between the eyebrows. Up when you breathe in, down when you breathe out. You should also breathe more slowly than usual, as slowly as it is comfortable. You will probably eventually notice a very big tension at the base of the spine. When this tension dissolves, kundalini shoots up (but don't rush it, otherwise you might get overload).

This method is called "Spinal Breathing Pranayama," there's a description at: http://www.aypsite.org/

If you ask me, I am convinced that "cycling" in insight meditation is the result of an unbalanced energy body. You apply effort in attention, which is basically your brain sucking up energy (1st jhana). As you do this, eventually the potential difference is large enough that energy rushes up from the body, nourishing the brain, it feels like euphoria (2nd jhana). Then it becomes way too much, so that there's too much energy in the head (3rd jhana). Fortunately it balances out, leaving a previously blocked part of your brain free to smoothly pass charge (4th jhana). That's just my own lame theory though.

If you have kundalini going, i.e., if your spinal nerve is open, then energy can flow up and down much more easily. Then you will have "openings" in the lower part of the body, which balance out the releases in the brain (technically one would say that the chakras should be balanced). I personally haven't had "dark night" symptoms three months and counting. Instead I get a continuously deepening experience. Maybe I'm doing it all wrong, but you will find that this is how yoga and taoism describe the route to enlightenment, as continuously deepening rather than wild cycling. Pure insight really is for the hard-core dharma cowboys :-)

Bruno,

Interesting that you mentioned AYP. I did that some time ago regularly and didn't have any success really. Perhaps my concentration sucked or something else (did you celibate? I didn't).

Also i'm curious if the addition of kundalini made any difference to your vipassana practice? did you still experience the typical stages of insight? [I realize that you sort of mentioned this before but given this was over 6 months ago, I'm curious if you have additional thoughts now]

I've been interested in kundalini for years but haven't had luck. I'm here learning about vipassana because I want to make some progress, maybe I'll awaken the energy in the process I want to awaken it for the healing and transformative aspects...and I do resonate with your theory that the cycles represent imbalances in the energy body, I think Kenneth says something similar.. but what bothers me about the completion of 4th path accounts is that 'arhats' still cycle, which means there are still blockages. So maybe kundalini is the missing ingredient then for a balanced awakened state.

Yeah, well, Michael, it's good you ask something about this buried thread. I was A&P'ing like hell (or "like heaven") at that time. I had no "cycles" because I was in the "good part" of a big cycle :-)

My "continuously deepening" experience was more like a "progressively greater orgasming" experience. After that, I had one night when I couldn't sleep because the pleasure was so intense, the ecstasy traveling the spine so unforgiving, that it hurt. Then it was dark night, dark night, dark night.

That said, I am still convinced that dark night is a sort of energy imbalance, although I am no longer convinced that "feeling constant ecstasy" wouldn't be, either.

Although the AYP dude (yogani) isn't very revealing of his own life, he clearly mentions that the "inner silence" thing is good for the "ups and downs" of life, which makes me guess that he does have ups and downs, regardless of how much he promotes ecstasy related practices.

Although, in truth, I am still very curious about the whole energy body thing, but I am now also curious about the PCE thing, and I came to believe that they are utterly incompatible.

And if there must be a choice between believing I am god and having universal divine love, and the more down to earth wonder and peace of mind, I would go for the latter. If I were able to abide in each perspective at a whim, that would be more interesting and multifarious, I suppose

Bruno,

Thanks. I'm actually thinking of combining AYP with Vipassana since you've had some good luck doing that and made progress. Seems that the spinal breathing in addition to the investigation really sped things up for you.

I'm curious about the I AM mantra though. Isn't mantra practice just concentration and getting into a tranquil abiding state? Or was your experience that mantra practice has a different characteristic?

About PCE, yes it does seem that it's incompatible. My rookie opinion is that it results from overemphasizing body over energy and mind. In Vajrayana, all 3 are equal and neither is more important or worthy of concentration and dissolving into.

And yeah, I agree with you about choosing peace of mind over universal love though I don't think the two are mutually exclusive, but the whole I am God thing, yeah.. that I can do away with. seems a bit egomaniac-ish and one of the reasons I strayed away from Hindu teachings and got more into Buddhism, the down-to-earth-ness.

I read what you wrote about stream entry for you being the relaxation of a certain point in the ajna reason -- so in this regard do you think the AYP by itself can lead to stream entry and beyond without the investigative qualities inherent to vipassana?

Hi,

I found the book "Kriya Yoga: synthesis of a personal experience" a great source of information if put to practical use.

The author offers it for download from here

http://www.kriyayogainfo.net/Eng_Downloads1.html

cheers
Jeff

It might be relevant to say that I was only doing vipassana until stream entry, after which I dabbled into AYP for a while, and now I do only vipassana again. But I believe that MCTB's arhatship is really just a matter of developing the energy body, in particular the crown-to-heart-chakra connection mentioned in AYP.

But AYP spends years and years of effort cleaning up the whole body, not giving any particular emphasis to investigation, but giving lots of emphasis to body ecstasy, divine-higher-self whatevers, and so on.

If I were to recommend any specific energy practice, I would say: do the front part of the microcosmic orbit, up and down, and do tai chi. It goes VERY WELL with vipassana, very well indeed.



There's more to it. The actual sound of the mantra, when thought, will produce a feeling-resonance ("Om" feels different than "Shree", just try and feel for yourself). When one's perception of energy stuff is subtle enough, this is glaringly obvious. How it actually works in the nervous system is a mystery to me, I tend to think of mantras as feeling-massages of sorts. I suspect they would do nothing in an actually free person (consciously or unconsciously), but who knows?




My own rookie uniformed conjecture / wild guess / gratuitous speculation is that the mechanism which builds up and directs charge is simply completely destroyed, resulting in a body who's nervous system is completely "grounded," of sorts. This would explain why the practice of "grounding energy in the body" seems to be a way into the PCE. But my conjectures have been many, and this is a topic I find interesting, and would like for some brain scientist to figure out.


Actually, I wasn't a down-to-earth guy at all before I started the meditation thing. It's just that after the taste I had of the "I-am-god thing," I found that although it is trippy and fun for a while, as a way of life it is incredibly deluded and just plain lonely.



And the turning point of second path happened there too, and there is a lot of activity in this region when going for third path. I don't know if AYP can successfully avoid the investigation part, although one could say that since they come to believe they are god, they certainly avoid it to some extent.

You know what? I like investigating. I had to learn a lot of very difficult things, I had to shed tons of delusion, which was and still is a very very difficult and painful process, but I seem to be more and more happy to be doing it. Just that: understanding how I work, and making the possible best I can. It's not a hefty project like "finding your own higher self" or "making contact with the metaphysical source of all things," or "living an orgasm 24/7," but what the hell, it's fascinating stuff.

Anyway dude great luck with your practice

Jeff, thanks for the reference, sounds like a great no-bullshit book on yoga, will read sometime.

Just a quick aside on this:



Bruno, thanks for your awesome advice!

I'm doing quite a bit of research about qigong and taoist methods at the moment, and it was mentioned in taobums.com that the microcosmic orbit stuff is somewhat advanced. Now, if that was only said to sell more of the "less advanced" books, I don't know. Here is the post where it was said http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/15175-qigong-sucks/ second from top, under "RECOMENDATIONS".

Any thoughts on this Bruno?

Just to let you know, I'm practicing BK Frantzis' stuff, I will let you know if something interesting happens.

Cheers,
Andy

Is there any particular reason that you stopped doing AYP? Or did you just find it no longer necessary for you since vipassana itself naturally develops the energy body?



Thanks, I used to do the microcosmic orbit by itself, but now that I'm getting into vipassana I was thinking of coming it with some sort of energy practice. One concern I had with AYP is that the front channel is ignored. Is developing the back and central channels not important or is done naturally through vipassana? Not sure why you recommend emphasizing only the front part of the orbit.




Haha, thank you.. and thanks for sharing your thoughts. For me, I am pulled to investigate because I have to. I can't explain it.. but i've always had this sense that there's more to my experience than what is immediately given, plus the conditioned responses and the constant monkey mind is a very unpleasant experience. I used to concern myself with philosophical pursuits of 'truth' and then desiring to experience that, but now I am coming at it from both curiosity and suffering. I've had energetic experiences of blissful energy rising up the spine (mostly always when I'm sleeping) and they gave rise to great fear because I though I would disappear or go mad, the usual survival fears. So that's why I got into vipassana because noting seems like a great way to break through that illusion/delusion of self. Energetic practices by themselves didn't work for me.

Hey Andy,

I've been on TaoBums for a while and the guy that posted that does tend to know his stuff, but the thing about TaoBums is that everyone is an expert I don't think microcosmic orbit is dangerous at all, especially since the front channel is worked on and there is emphasis on storing in the belly after you're done. It seems that the biggest issues arise when there is too much energy in the head or if the front channel is blocked, so I think you will be alright if you stick with the MCO.

I practice Kunlun, or Yi Gong as Jenny Lamb calls it, (which is a hot topic on TaoBums) mainly because I'm lazy and don't want to be running energy around, i'd rather just relax and let things happen naturally. It's supposed to open all channels but so far has just been an interesting physical exercise for me with occasional energetic phenomena happening.

Oh and Jenny did a 3 month Mahasi retreat so she does vipassana too, very good teacher and probably has deep realization.