C C C:
katy steger:
C C C CCC: Ha! I'm not sure everyone has preconceived notions to uphold and defend, but I think I get that you're sick of the self-study sickness (I also enjoyed your run-away-if-you-see-house-full-of-dharma-books post (my paraphrase)), the narcissism that can easily happen in meditation. Do I understand you here, Mr. C C C?
Maybe not. In the very moment a person decides to sit and meditate, he has strengthened his ego. He has decided the here-and-now conditions are not good enough and not to his liking. The ego-mind says "This present moment is not good enough, I want to be elsewhere...what can I do about it?". Then a "teacher" appears and says meditation is a good way to get somewhere nice and get some good attainments. This "teacher" says that there is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. All one needs to do is work really, really reallllllly hard for many years. There must be great sacrifice and suffering and one must have a hardcore attitude to cope. As the poor stupid student sits and watches his breath with the aim of "something better in the future", the ego-mind gets stronger and stronger and stronger. All sorts of suffering besiege him. Hopefully he stops before he has a nervous breakdown or suicides. But amidst all this suffering, along comes the "teacher" telling him to just keep going.
Any goal-directed behaviour must strengthen the ego and create more suffering. The solution is just to sink back into who and what you are now, and to sink back into how things are now. Stopping the struggle = proper meditation. Stopping the effort, the striving, the goal-directed work, the "get me out of here" = proper meditation. Watching the breath is very dangerous and should be avoided at all costs.
I honestly don't think people here have the first clue what they're supposed to be doing. MCTB is to blame for that. If I hear the word "attainment" one more time I'm going to fucking scream.
.
First, I like that you hold up this point -- the agrandissement/blowhard/falsity/bigger ego risks/outcomes of meditation: those are actual risks and outcomes I can say from my own experience. But, to me, that fallibility can be found in any training, secular or religious, academic or athletic, accounting, lip synching front-"singers"... not just meditation practice. The person is taking action(s) with their intention at that moment, sincerely and honestly or not.
Secondly, I think any endeavor well-taken (sincerely and honestly) is going to pass through a cocky phase, even if it's just expressed as condescension or a superior, knowing gaze. I think two things happen in a good sincere, honest effort: natural pleasure/pride in seeing a good outcome coming from the good effort (e.g., hitting home runs at batting practice one day after months of sincere training and focus) and this momentary pleasure/pride can become a little cocky for a while. That latter outcome, I think, depends a lot on the community and the role models.
Regardless, if a person is training in anything insincerely and without some candid self-reflection, that training is going to show what has actually been trained or not. People tend to get called out on the carpet in their own way some times---and if there's been a great bluffing, that "come to Jesus" moment could be hard.
So I'm constantly learning just through daily "mundane" life what I have not practiced sincerely and therefore not so well, and I sometimes get to see evidence in daily life of what I am learning pretty well. When I see what's been done well, I don't assume anything beyond that one thing/moment. That's a treat, like buying with cash not credit.
Anyway, I do appreciate that you sound this actual hazard of practice, especially in a community where we signal to each other regularly and create the tone amongst each other. To me, some of your points serve a sincere training extremely well.
Thanks, "Bruce",
"Sheila"*
[*my effort at Aussie-awareness]
C C C:
Any goal-directed behaviour must strengthen the ego and create more suffering.
Sometimes I think this is a useful style. Often though, for me, I find the frame of a goal and its effort helpful -- even if the goal was too much, unreachable. I'm alive, can't stay in a sleeping bag all day, so I have these little things I do in being alive and I like moving towards doing things with some improving skill and willingly, enjoyably. When I was in work that I did not like or respect I found that I did not want to get better at it, but I still did (with diminishing returns) until I left. That was just rote discipline.
C C C
Watching the breath is very dangerous and should be avoided at all costs.
I can see how this --- anapansati --- and other meditation objects are hazards and that some people and certain times in their lives should just not meditate. It's a training that works for some people. Otherwise, I really think playful exercise, good sleep and a reasonable diet should come first if a person is looking at stress in their life.
Breathing meditations, however, can trigger the parasympathetic nervous system and calm a person down, too. So I can't put a full-hazard glaze on it. I'd just say if a person is too tight with it, it's not for them.
CCC:
In the very moment a person decides to sit and meditate, he has strengthened his ego. He has decided the here-and-now conditions are not good enough and not to his liking. The ego-mind says "This present moment is not good enough, I want to be elsewhere...what can I do about it?". Then a "teacher" appears and says meditation is a good way to get somewhere nice and get some good attainments. This "teacher" says that there is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. All one needs to do is work really, really reallllllly hard for many years. There must be great sacrifice and suffering and one must have a hardcore attitude to cope. As the poor stupid student sits and watches his breath with the aim of "something better in the future", the ego-mind gets stronger and stronger and stronger. All sorts of suffering besiege him. Hopefully he stops before he has a nervous breakdown or suicides. But amidst all this suffering, along comes the "teacher" telling him to just keep going.
This was not my experience, but certainly people have reported this. It's a pity, but abuses happen in everything. So I like that bullying is being studied and shunned these days.
On the other hand, some people refuse to practice anything for themselves -- to lean into their own self-study --- so then they may choose a dependence on a teacher and being told what to do and what is right/wrong. That kind of experience may be just the thing that triggers a person to look at themselves, what they are choosing for themselves.