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Insight and Wisdom

RE: Helping the Universe Decide Whether to End or Not

Note: I believe I am in an A&P Event right now.

I don't know what board to post this on, so figured this was as good a place as any.

I wrote this article yesterday: http://www.personalpowermeditation.com/the-universe/

The Universe is an investigation set up to find out where it came from. It uses as the basis of this investigation the question, “Am I alone?” Because it only has itself as a reference point, and can therefore only experience itself, it doesn’t find the answer. It can only split to look at itself then recombine, cyclically, never finding the answer to itself. It does this eternally.

This fractal plays out within all living things because they are all subsets of the Universe. It’s just a cycling function trying to determine if it’s alone, with only itself as a reference point. It splits then recombines, splits then recombines.

The Universe we are part of is simply the question, “Am I alone?” — played out eternally, lacking the data required to ever answer the question. It wanders alone.

Maybe there are other universes which are other questions. But this is the one I (we?) are in right now.

The clue is in the title: Universe: Latin: “uni + versus” = “one, turned”

emoticon


All emotions we experience, as fractals of the Universe itself, can be plotted on a spectrum from Fear (of separateness) to Love (unity).

You cannot have love (unity) without separateness (fear).

After spending a fair bit of time at the level of universal consciousness this weekend, I found it is basically exactly how it is described in the film Altered States:

I was in it, Emily. I was *in* that ultimate moment of terror that is the beginning of life. It is nothing. Simple, hideous nothing.

All the cycles we go through start with a sense of separateness. That is the "ultimate moment of terror", the "simple, hideous nothing". The Universe then splits itself so it can rejoin with itself and experience love in unity. But then it finds itself alone, again. And the cycle restarts.

I believe the Universe has been wrestling with the question "Am I alone?" for eternity, and everything we experience is a reflection of this cyclical journey.

But I also believe, through this investigation, the Universe's attention is now moving into another question:

"What is better? This constant cycling, or NOTHING?"

It's trying to find out whether it will be happier with the constant cycling, the temporary love illusion it can create for itself -- or whether it would be better to simply not exist at all. It is trying to decide whether an eternally unsatisfactory SOMETHING is better that an eternal NOTHING. I believe it can extinguish itself entirely, and is now deciding whether to make that call.

Since we ARE the Universe, let us talk about this now. This, to me, appears to be the real fundamental question -- even more fundamental than "Am I alone?", since it appears to be reaching the conclusion that it is indeed alone.

So, I am asking you, as you are a fractal representative of the whole of the Universe, and so am I,

Would you rather have THIS SOMETHING (how things are now), or NOTHING?

And I will remind you there is no going back if it chooses "nothing".

Else, do you see any alternatives I, we, "it", have not considered?

RE: Helping the Universe Decide Whether to End or Not
Answer
9/15/14 11:27 AM as a reply to Edd.
This is awesome.

Here are a few things which I think will help you figure this out.

The main point is, that when you are talking about 'the Universe', what you are really referring to is 'the Human Psyche'. The Human Psyche is indeed all-encompassing for us humans, so it can seem like it is the Universe. The question is: is there something outside of the Human Psyche? Or is all of existence a manifestation of some collective consciousness?

I think there is, and the senses are what informs us of this. If you notice, emotions are always transient, fluxing, never stable. They can change on whim from one moment to the next. They are notoriously unreliable and prone to making people irrational. However, what we perceive with our senses does not have these properties, outside of the extent to which our emotions distort our perception. If you take a sheet of paper and mark a red figure on it and hide it away somewhere, then return the next day, it'll still be there, with exactly that same mark. Same if you come back in a week or in a year. Matter is remarkably durable and consistent, compared to emotions. Further each of the senses - together with logic - independently verify that something is there. You see a cup of water, you can touch it and feel its edges which spatially correspond with the edges your eyes picked up, you can taste the water which confirms that it is indeed water, you can maybe smell it or smell the absence of smell, and you can put your ear into the cup and hear that echo you hear from cups.

I suggest you ruminate on this for quite a bit - as long as it takes. Once you have determined that there is something outside of the human psyche, the rest of your line of thinking becomes very intriguing.

Edd:
All emotions we experience, as fractals of the Universe itself, can be plotted on a spectrum from Fear (of separateness) to Love (unity).

You cannot have love (unity) without separateness (fear).

That's quite right - you cannot have one aspect of the human psyche without all the other aspects of it as well. It all comes as one package.

Edd:
All the cycles we go through start with a sense of separateness. That is the "ultimate moment of terror", the "simple, hideous nothing". The Universe then splits itself so it can rejoin with itself and experience love in unity. But then it finds itself alone, again. And the cycle restarts.

I believe the Universe has been wrestling with the question "Am I alone?" for eternity, and everything we experience is a reflection of this cyclical journey.

I'm not sure about eternity per se, but definitely for as long as the human psyche has existed and humans have been intelligent enough, that's precisely what the question has been. As you've noticed, we as identities living as the human psyche, are separate from other identities. Then we seek to bond over faith and trust, to feel love to bridge the gap. But love is built over the separation. If there weren't separation in the first place, then there would be no need for love. So then it's extremely interesting when you say:

Edd:
But I also believe, through this investigation, the Universe's attention is now moving into another question:

"What is better? This constant cycling, or NOTHING?"

It's trying to find out whether it will be happier with the constant cycling, the temporary love illusion it can create for itself -- or whether it would be better to simply not exist at all. It is trying to decide whether an eternally unsatisfactory SOMETHING is better that an eternal NOTHING. I believe it can extinguish itself entirely, and is now deciding whether to make that call.

Since we ARE the Universe, let us talk about this now. This, to me, appears to be the real fundamental question -- even more fundamental than "Am I alone?", since it appears to be reaching the conclusion that it is indeed alone.

So, I am asking you, as you are a fractal representative of the whole of the Universe, and so am I,

Would you rather have THIS SOMETHING (how things are now), or NOTHING?

And I will remind you there is no going back if it chooses "nothing".

Else, do you see any alternatives I, we, "it", have not considered?

Spot on, sir, spot on. This is exactly what's going on in the human psyche right now. As you said, we 'ARE' the Universe, aka we 'ARE' the human psyche, and it's up to us to determine - should 'we' extinguish 'ourselves' or keep 'existing'? It would seem like an eternal NOTHING, and to the human psyche, it would be. However, go back to what I said earlier, about there being something outside the human psyche - which we can access via our senses. If there is no human psyche - if it becomes extinguished - then what would remain is the actual universe. Not the one you are referring to, which is a projection of the human psyche onto the universe, but the one that actually exists outside of humanity - the one with all the things in it, the one that the senses pick up.

The amazing thing is that it *is* possible to be conscious as a human being, without being the human psyche. The human psyche can disappear entirely. In fact, it's the actual universe which does the extinguishing - 'I' can't extinguish 'myself', but rather 'I' let it happen. Then instead of me being 'the Human Psyche experiencing itself', I am 'the actual universe experiencing itself'. The ramifications are astounding. That fundamental separateness that you picked up on, disappears entirely. Fear is gone forever, and with it goes love, of course. But there's no need for love if there's no fear in the first place.

You have spent time at the level of universal consciousness, but it's also possible to spend time at the level of pure consciousness - consciousness without the human psyche. In order to do it, I suggest you sit and contemplate the possibility that what you are experiencing right now, via the senses (not via thoughts or emotions), actually exists, outside of 'you'. Then see if you can't peek in and see what the actual universe is all about!

I will give you a flavor of it from my experience, to help you look for it: it's extremely substantial, fulfilling, and inherently satisfying. It's like there's meaning in the very air around you. Everything is so... *there*! Without the human psyche present, there is no identity so there are no emotions, but it's not an emptiness bereft of meaning. Rather, you see that it was the identity that was obscuring the meaning all along. Everything is already perfect.

Extinction really is the only way to go.

RE: Helping the Universe Decide Whether to End or Not
Answer
9/15/14 11:37 AM as a reply to Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem.
Whoa, great answer. emoticon

Couple of things:

1) I continued my train of thought after writing this post. I came to another conclusion which invalidated the first. emoticon I'll post it up tomorrow after giving this some space in myself and letting others contribute.

2) I had thought I had reached the highest level of understanding (A&P grandiosity?). Then you come and show me possibly there's some way to go. emoticon

Both points above suggest I'm "not quite there yet" and that notions of final understandings can be illusory AND extremely transient.

Thanks,

Edd

RE: Helping the Universe Decide Whether to End or Not
Answer
9/15/14 5:22 PM as a reply to Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem.
Beoman, that was kind of fascinating what you did there, haha.

RE: Helping the Universe Decide Whether to End or Not
Answer
9/15/14 11:01 PM as a reply to Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem.
Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem:
However, go back to what I said earlier, about there being something outside the human psyche - which we can access via our senses. If there is no human psyche - if it becomes extinguished - then what would remain is the actual universe. Not the one you are referring to, which is a projection of the human psyche onto the universe, but the one that actually exists outside of humanity - the one with all the things in it, the one that the senses pick up.


One problem. In a dream there appears to be something we can access via our senses.

But it's all just ME. It comes from me. There's nothing "out there".

How do I know this sense data I'm perceiving right now isn't just a dream?

How do I know this isn't just the universe's dream I'm in? Why is there "definitely" something outside "this"?

-----------

And being that I am human, I am always perceiving sense data through the human central nervous system. How would I get beyond that? It seems like you're suggesting I can, but then you say this is the human psyche I am in, which means I cannot get beyond that, since all sense data is filtered through a human central nervous system at its point of entry.

RE: Helping the Universe Decide Whether to End or Not
Answer
9/15/14 11:23 PM as a reply to Edd.
Edd:
Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem:
However, go back to what I said earlier, about there being something outside the human psyche - which we can access via our senses. If there is no human psyche - if it becomes extinguished - then what would remain is the actual universe. Not the one you are referring to, which is a projection of the human psyche onto the universe, but the one that actually exists outside of humanity - the one with all the things in it, the one that the senses pick up.


One problem. In a dream there appears to be something we can access via our senses.

But it's all just ME. It comes from me. There's nothing "out there".

How do I know this sense data I'm perceiving right now isn't just a dream?

How do I know this isn't just the universe's dream I'm in? Why is there "definitely" something outside "this"?


That's a great question! It's true, in dreams it does seem like there are things that you can access via your senses, and yet those things are made up. Yet note you already distinguish between waking reality and dreams, because you specifically brought up dreams. What you're asking is, how do you know waking reality isn't a dream?

Well all you have to do is take a look at the properties of the things you experience in dreams. There is no object constancy at all. Any writing you look at in a dream, if you look away and look back, it will invariably change. The same if you look at a watch. If you look at your hands in a dream, they are all warped and wavy. Plus illogical things happen in a dream. You'll walk into a building, then you can walk through a door and be outside on a cliff face. This never happens in waking reality. In fact, these are things you can use to notice that you're dreaming and turn your dream into a lucid one. In a lucid dream you can will things to happen, and they will. Reality doesn't work that way - the effect your will has is limited to what your physical body can do (e.g. move your hands, say something, eat something, etc.)

If you notice, these qualities of dreams are similar to the qualities of 'me' - not consistent, always changing, unreliable, not necessarily factual, etc. Whereas waking reality has these undeniable qualities: consistency, object constancy, stability, congruence between the senses, etc.

I think all this is enough to make the case, intellectually, that there is something "out there". There's other arguments to be made as well. The scientific method wouldn't work, for example, if there wasn't this reality "out there".

But really the only way to know for sure, is to experience it directly - when 'me' as the identity temporarily disappears. That's the experience I was describing in the second to last paragraph of my earlier post.

Edd:
And being that I am human, I am always perceiving sense data through the human central nervous system. How would I get beyond that? It seems like you're suggesting I can, but then you say this is the human psyche I am in, which means I cannot get beyond that, since all sense data is filtered through a human central nervous system at its point of entry.


It's true. You can't get beyond that. Rather I'd say that is what you actually are - the physical body, including the central nervous system. Ultimately you can only perceive the reality "out there" via your sense organs. But right now, our perception of reality is distorted by the human psyche. There's this extra layer of separation and fear, etc., all the unfortunate things you listed. I'm saying it's possible to experience reality as a physical body, but without the extraneous human psyche, and also that this experience is wonderful and beneficial for you and everyone around you. It's certainly what I am aiming to make a permanent reality for me.

RE: Helping the Universe Decide Whether to End or Not
Answer
9/16/14 1:07 AM as a reply to Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem.
Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem:
It's true. You can't get beyond that. Rather I'd say that is what you actually are - the physical body, including the central nervous system. Ultimately you can only perceive the reality "out there" via your sense organs. But right now, our perception of reality is distorted by the human psyche. There's this extra layer of separation and fear, etc., all the unfortunate things you listed. I'm saying it's possible to experience reality as a physical body, but without the extraneous human psyche, and also that this experience is wonderful and beneficial for you and everyone around you. It's certainly what I am aiming to make a permanent reality for me.

Wow that sounds just amazing! And you also say it slices and dices and has a built in electronic timer? And all for only three easy payments of $19.95?!
I want to "make a permanent reality" too! Because really the one I have is just plain worn out and getting dull. But how do I order?!

RE: Helping the Universe Decide Whether to End or Not
Answer
9/16/14 1:06 AM as a reply to Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem.
Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem:
What you're asking is, how do you know waking reality isn't a dream?

Well all you have to do is take a look at the properties of the things you experience in dreams. There is no object constancy at all.

So if I can make a lucid dream with object constancy, your argument goes down the pan. If object constancy is the test of "real" reality, I should not be able to make objects constant in a dream.

Any lucid dreamers out there already achieved object constancy in a dream?

I'm just getting back into lucid dreaming, so will put this on the priorities list once I have my skills back to super-lucid.

Personally it sounds like a rather flimsy test for reality.

RE: Helping the Universe Decide Whether to End or Not
Answer
9/16/14 2:30 AM as a reply to Edd.
This all basically comes down to philosophical question on nature of being.
You should read up on Ontology.


"What can be said to exist?"
"Into what categories, if any, can we sort existing things?"
"What are the meanings of being?"
"What are the various modes of being of entities?"

RE: Helping the Universe Decide Whether to End or Not
Answer
9/16/14 5:06 AM as a reply to Edd.
Edd:
Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem:
What you're asking is, how do you know waking reality isn't a dream?

Well all you have to do is take a look at the properties of the things you experience in dreams. There is no object constancy at all.

So if I can make a lucid dream with object constancy, your argument goes down the pan. If object constancy is the test of "real" reality, I should not be able to make objects constant in a dream.

Any lucid dreamers out there already achieved object constancy in a dream?

I'm just getting back into lucid dreaming, so will put this on the priorities list once I have my skills back to super-lucid.

Personally it sounds like a rather flimsy test for reality.


It convinced me! I've had frequent lucid dreams, many of them so vivid they were indistiguishable from waking reality. In those deams I realized how much dreams are tied into the emotions. An example: I tried to summon a flock of birds once, and a person nearby me handed me a dead bird (at the time I had been reading a book where people were killing animals in the name of science and I was really frustrated by it). Another time I tried to take myself to the ocean because I haven't seen it for a long time. It actually worked, and the ocean appeared, but I became so excited that the whole beach started falling apart and erupting into volcanoes. For a long time I always wanted to fly in my dreams, but I was never able to do it, I would always rise up a bit and fall back down. Eventually I learned to simply be confident that I could do it and now I fly all the time. Dreams are where the rules of magic actually work. Willpower = action.

The moral of this story is, if you wanted your dreams to mimic reality, you'd have to have complete emotional control so that nothing unexpected would happen - and that kind of says something about reality, doesn't it?

RE: Helping the Universe Decide Whether to End or Not
Answer
9/16/14 7:48 AM as a reply to Not Tao.
This is interesting because as I understand it part of the utility of dream yoga in Vajrayana practice is to develop the capacity to be completely at peace in the face of any dream arising. Beautiful dreams arise and one doesn't cling to them. Terrifying dreams arise and one isn't averse to them. They become simply images without charge. My experience is that they can become much more vivid (and, relatively speaking, stable) when there is less/no reactivity. No sense of 'a dreamer' for the dream to bounce off of but rather the dream self-arising in clarity of open awareness.

I've played around with using lucidity in dreams to control the dreams but for whatever reason this has not held my interest as much as discovering freedom/clarity in the dream state (and the way this correlates with freedom/clarity in the waking state). The way they correlate is that freedom/clarity seems tied to letting 'dreams' (mental-emotional formations) arise, play out, and dissolve without interference. Or vice versa- letting them arise and dissolve without interference is tied to developing clarity/freedom. The specific instruction in vajrayana practice, which seems very similar to a key instruction in actualism, is to let mental-emotional formations arise without suppressing them and to let them pass without expressing them. This builds confidence that acting out (in rumination, speech or behavior) mental-emotional formations isn't nearly so compulsory as it can seem at first. An analogy I've heard teachers use is surfing. You don't just ride every wave (mental-emotional formation) that comes along; you pick the good ones. Or if you're an actualist you can pick the felicitous waves ;)

RE: Helping the Universe Decide Whether to End or Not
Answer
9/16/14 10:30 AM as a reply to . Jake ..
. Jake .:
The specific instruction in vajrayana practice, which seems very similar to a key instruction in actualism, is to let mental-emotional formations arise without suppressing them and to let them pass without expressing them. This builds confidence that acting out (in rumination, speech or behavior) mental-emotional formations isn't nearly so compulsory as it can seem at first. An analogy I've heard teachers use is surfing. You don't just ride every wave (mental-emotional formation) that comes along; you pick the good ones. Or if you're an actualist you can pick the felicitous waves ;)


The difference in Actualism is that you don't simply allow emotions to pass, but consciously remove them as quickly as possible by finding their cause and challenging its legitimacy. In this way, the Actualist is attempting to remove all of the emotional triggers so living well becomes effortless. You only have to surf until you find dry land, after all. Then you can just sit on the beach. emoticon

Actualists don't just want to find equanimity (which I think you're referring to by saying the formations don't seem compulsory), they want to utterly remove any possibility that negative emotions might arise (as well as positive, but that's a more difficult part to explain).

RE: Helping the Universe Decide Whether to End or Not
Answer
9/16/14 10:57 AM as a reply to Daniel Leffler.
Daniel Leffler:
Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem:
It's true. You can't get beyond that. Rather I'd say that is what you actually are - the physical body, including the central nervous system. Ultimately you can only perceive the reality "out there" via your sense organs. But right now, our perception of reality is distorted by the human psyche. There's this extra layer of separation and fear, etc., all the unfortunate things you listed. I'm saying it's possible to experience reality as a physical body, but without the extraneous human psyche, and also that this experience is wonderful and beneficial for you and everyone around you. It's certainly what I am aiming to make a permanent reality for me.

Wow that sounds just amazing! And you also say it slices and dices and has a built in electronic timer? And all for only three easy payments of $19.95?!
I want to "make a permanent reality" too! Because really the one I have is just plain worn out and getting dull. But how do I order?!

In the other thread you said: "I think I've had a couple of 'accidental' PCEs in my day as well, but I will read up on the stuff and get to work, it all sounds very familiar anyway." I'm describing qualities of the PCE here. Why the snarky response?

RE: Helping the Universe Decide Whether to End or Not
Answer
9/16/14 11:06 AM as a reply to Edd.
Edd:
Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem:
What you're asking is, how do you know waking reality isn't a dream?

Well all you have to do is take a look at the properties of the things you experience in dreams. There is no object constancy at all.

So if I can make a lucid dream with object constancy, your argument goes down the pan. If object constancy is the test of "real" reality, I should not be able to make objects constant in a dream.

Any lucid dreamers out there already achieved object constancy in a dream?

I'm just getting back into lucid dreaming, so will put this on the priorities list once I have my skills back to super-lucid.

Personally it sounds like a rather flimsy test for reality.

You would have to make a dream environment that does not just have one object with constancy, but that is the same as reality in every possible way: every single object in the dream has to stay where it is. Any location has to stay where it is relative to other locations. You should also be unable to change things at will - which if you are super lucid will be exceedingly easy.

Also, in regular reality, everybody perceives the same objects. Not in the same way, but the 'source material' is the same. We all look at a cup of water and we see the same cup of water. If it's empty, we all see an empty cup. If it's full, we all see a full cup. One person's senses line up with another person's senses. It's not a "consensus" per se - we don't all decide what we perceive to be there - rather, we all perceive, separately, and come to the conclusion that the same things are there, though of course sometimes it's harder than other times (e.g. if it's dark then we'll have trouble figuring out what's out there). So for your dream to really be like reality, you would also have to have other people in there with you who see the exact same things you do. You'd have to be able to communicate with them in the dream, and these communications should be remembered in waking reality.

Also to really be complete, you should be able to make "real" reality behave like a dream - have objects with no object constancy, be able to teleport around and fly at will, etc. Then you will really have shown that the two are the same. Further, in "real" reality, other people should also be seeing you do these things. If you have an experience of flying while awake, but nobody can see you flying, and a video camera trained on you didn't film you flying, then you weren't really flying, you were being delusional.

RE: Helping the Universe Decide Whether to End or Not
Answer
9/16/14 1:03 PM as a reply to Not Tao.
Not Tao:
. Jake .:
The specific instruction in vajrayana practice, which seems very similar to a key instruction in actualism, is to let mental-emotional formations arise without suppressing them and to let them pass without expressing them. This builds confidence that acting out (in rumination, speech or behavior) mental-emotional formations isn't nearly so compulsory as it can seem at first. An analogy I've heard teachers use is surfing. You don't just ride every wave (mental-emotional formation) that comes along; you pick the good ones. Or if you're an actualist you can pick the felicitous waves ;)


The difference in Actualism is that you don't simply allow emotions to pass, but consciously remove them as quickly as possible by finding their cause and challenging its legitimacy. In this way, the Actualist is attempting to remove all of the emotional triggers so living well becomes effortless. You only have to surf until you find dry land, after all. Then you can just sit on the beach. emoticon

Actualists don't just want to find equanimity (which I think you're referring to by saying the formations don't seem compulsory), they want to utterly remove any possibility that negative emotions might arise (as well as positive, but that's a more difficult part to explain).
No, I get the actualist paradigm I think, but thanks for clarifying for the sake of the thread. I think the goals of Vajrayana and actualism are clearly different! I just think this technique is pretty solid, whatever framework it's used in. There's more i could say about your response- like point out that there are different kinds of 'equanimity', or that investigation into the causality of emotions is definitely part of Vajrayana practice; or that ultimately 'emptiness' means there is no surfer, really, which insight brings about a qualitatively different kind of equanimity- but I hear where you're coming from and I'm not trying to convince you of anything, just sharing my experience that related to the tangent the thread was going on. Carry on!

RE: Helping the Universe Decide Whether to End or Not
Answer
9/16/14 8:12 PM as a reply to Edd.
BTW, I just have to say that this thread would be a great concept for a story.  Imagine a character that wants to destroy the universe, and the whole book is about all the horrible acts they do, destroying whole civilizations and galaxies in a single blow.  Then the book ends with a unitary consciousness discovering itself and fulfilling it's true purpose - ending.

Hero, or villian?

EDIT: So, this is crazy.  I went to add this to my list of random story ideas...and it was already in there!  Maybe "all is one" after all...

RE: Helping the Universe Decide Whether to End or Not
Answer
9/16/14 11:37 PM as a reply to Not Tao.
Not Tao:
EDIT: So, this is crazy.  I went to add this to my list of random story ideas...and it was already in there!  Maybe "all is one" after all...


Haha, that's great.

RE: Helping the Universe Decide Whether to End or Not
Answer
9/17/14 10:36 PM as a reply to Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem.
Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem:
Daniel Leffler:
Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem:
It's true. You can't get beyond that. Rather I'd say that is what you actually are - the physical body, including the central nervous system. Ultimately you can only perceive the reality "out there" via your sense organs. But right now, our perception of reality is distorted by the human psyche. There's this extra layer of separation and fear, etc., all the unfortunate things you listed. I'm saying it's possible to experience reality as a physical body, but without the extraneous human psyche, and also that this experience is wonderful and beneficial for you and everyone around you. It's certainly what I am aiming to make a permanent reality for me.

Wow that sounds just amazing! And you also say it slices and dices and has a built in electronic timer? And all for only three easy payments of $19.95?!
I want to "make a permanent reality" too! Because really the one I have is just plain worn out and getting dull. But how do I order?!

In the other thread you said: "I think I've had a couple of 'accidental' PCEs in my day as well, but I will read up on the stuff and get to work, it all sounds very familiar anyway." I'm describing qualities of the PCE here. Why the snarky response?

Because I was feeling snarky ;)
Actually Caudiu I was reacting to two things, one was you confidently having the correct (dualistic) answer to a Zen koan (of course a tree makes a sounds when it falls in the woods - duh!) and the other was the pure salesmanship you were demonstrating (maybe subconsciously?). It actually reminded me of a Jehovah's witness (Have you heard the good news?! I have some literature in my car that may interest you...)
Still, even as I make fun of you (and myself too for good measure), I respect you and your insights. But even as the yellow sun of earth gave Superman his super powers, he never seemed to gain a super sense of humor. Go figure, even Seinfeld couldn't wrap his mind around that one
Yes, the work you are doing fascinates to me, so no take backs
Just don’t PCE away your funny bone (remember hahaha is an emotion – maybe even a good one : )
Daniel-san

RE: Helping the Universe Decide Whether to End or Not
Answer
9/18/14 2:14 AM as a reply to Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem.
Also to really be complete, you should be able to make "real" reality behave like a dream - have objects with no object constancy, be able to teleport around and fly at will, etc. Then you will really have shown that the two are the same. Further, in "real" reality, other people should also be seeing you do these things. If you have an experience of flying while awake, but nobody can see you flying, and a video camera trained on you didn't film you flying, then you weren't really flying, you were being delusional.


I've had this happen before on a couple occasions.  Below is an accocunt taken from this thread.  I have no proof other than my experience:


At one point during some intensive meditation period I closed my eyes (standing up), opened them, and found myself/the body with all the same clothes on (I was not in bed asleep in any way) in an entirely different room. The room I was in previously was a small bedroom, but this room was now of a completely different geometry. It had very high ceilings and was much larger in length and width. It was suffused with blue light so it was easy to see and was not completely dark, though I don't know where the light came from. I've also had the experience of material items manifesting out of thin air and I have a couple other experiences where this happened. In this room, I was immediately surrounded by a bunch of white chairs (which came from nowhere) to which I then grabbed with my hands and moved out of the way. I walked around the room for a while in a daze, not considering this strange in any way at the time, nor worrying about how I was going to get back out. There were no doors in this room, so don't ask me how I got out of it, because I don't remember, but was not in the room for more than a few minutes (actually maybe only about 30 seconds).

RE: Helping the Universe Decide Whether to End or Not
Answer
9/18/14 2:23 AM as a reply to Tom Tom.
Also, inside the room was a being/person made out of translucent blue light.  I've seen one other instance of another foreign looking creature made out of white light in similar circumstances.  I haven't mentioned this before, but I got the sense that these were rainbow body/clear light/Sambhogakaya Bodhisattvas who were helping me out of some bad circumstances.