Thanks David,
Good to hear from you, and I always enjoy your input.
David A:
With regards to you having tried all that's been suggested to you previously and still not getting what you want...I think you are letting yourself off the hook too easily. It's good to get advice from teachers and more experienced practicioners but in the end the final decision about what to do is yours and yours alone.
I'm not sure what you mean by "letting myself off the hook."
David A:
If part of you is angry and resentful at this current approach you are taking of "going for stream entry" as swiftly as possible in this imbalanced way (I suspect this is the case), then I suggest you pause and re-evaluate.
I hope it doesn't come off like I'm angry and resentful about this current approach I'm taking. I don't think I am, at least. I actually feel a lot of gratitude for the opportunity to practice and for the continuing unfolding of a really trippy ride. I also feel a lot of gratitude for the advice and thoughts offered here and to have this forum for this discussion. I think the approach I took for my three day approach was sorta the type of approach of a madman... I mean, I attempted to do something that I didn't even know what it was I was doing or how I was going to do it, but I decided to do it anyway. I tried and failed, and there's no blame about that.
David A:
Find a way of practice that resonates with you emotionally. If you keep going the way you are going it will be insincere and conflicted and thus in my opinion limited in effectiveness. I am getting an impression that a subconscious part of you is waiting for outside affirmation (or perhaps even approval) to relax and to cease the relentless pushing, forcing effort. I suggest you don't wait for that. You have to decide for yourself if you need to roll back the throttle.
I totally see what you're saying, but sitting over here, I don't have a sense of insincerity. In fact, it was when I read tarin's words "go on to stream entry quickly" - that's when I sensed an insincerity in my path as it was. There may be a subconscious part wanting affirmation to relax, but if so, that's not the whole story. There's a lot more going on than just that. I'm doing my best to listen to all the subconscious parts so that I might get the whole story.
David A:
You have been told to think in terms of resolving to get stream entry and get it as soon as possible. You've been trying that. As Bruno pointed out, you have to objectively examine the results of what you are doing and decide if it's furthering your cause.
Thanks for this as it helps me clarify. I don't think that anyone told me to think at all in any terms. I don't recall the use of the word "think." I was told simply to do it, and do it quickly. Or rather, I was given the invitation to do it. I've given a good objective examination, and my conclusion is that overall it seems to have produced a somewhat neutral to positive effect on furthering my cause. Every step I take seems to be furthering my cause.
What's more, it's not really furthering my cause that interests me here... it seems like I could spend my whole life just furthering my cause, furthering my cause, furthering my cause. Somehow, even this is presenting it's dukkha, even this has become unsatisfying. It's not furthering my cause that I want, it's the cause itself. Although, I don't know if that makes any sense.
David A:
In your posts you've expressed confusion about what going for stream entry means.
Note that someone with helpful intentions might urge you to go for stream entry but their conceptual and emotional associations with that phrase may be utterly the opposite of what yours are. Thus you may end up reacting in exactly the opposite way that that well-meaning person intended you to.
Fuck it, let's throw caution to the wind. If I wait until I get all my maps aligned and terms defined, I could be waiting my whole life. Charge ahead. Talk later. (Or at least, this is the voice of the unconscious insincerity that I mentioned above. And, I say it to you, because I suspect you might have it as well. I understand that you had a really rough three-monther, but I'm also betting that somewhere inside, there's a part of you that's saying "fuck it... it was still worth it for Enlightnment/God/Whatever you want to call it." I mean, really it sucks, but dude... you went for it all out. You made a bold effort of the likes that rivals the ancient pali texts of crazy monks of the past. Sure, your aim was off... you fell on your face, but you will rise again.)
David A:
For example: for myself personally, "going for stream entry" doesn't work for me. It did in the beginning, but there eventually came a point of diminishing returns, and during/after my MBMC retreat that mindset became outright toxic. My past imbalanced practice has conditioned myself in such a way that following that mindset triggers all sorts of unpleasant energetic, physical reactions. I become intensely future-oriented and my sense of sincere investigation and acceptance with whatever phenomena is happening evaporates, as does all the potential for fun, enjoyable practice. I am willing to bet money that you have largely similar reactions.
Yeah. All I'm saying is don't throw out the Baby with the bathwater. The *mindset* became toxic. That's what minds do when they "set". They become toxic. What burns at me is the baby. The baby is everything. I don't understand it. I don't know what it is or where it's going. I don't know how many times I'll have to change the bathwater, but I can't take my eyes off the baby.
David A:
Having a practice based on a "stream entry or bust" slogan in fact started to take me father away from stream entry. So I've dropped it.
The truth is, I don't really care about stream entry. I have no idea what it is, and I don't think I care if I ever know. It really doesn't concern me much. I mean, to me it really just looks like two stupid words that sound really cool when placed after the words "I am a..." But, what else to call that damn thing that keeps me going. To say "??? or bust" is just kinda weird.
David A:
Anyway, if "going for stream entry as quickly as possible" for you means becoming intimate with your present-moment experience in an equanimous yet genuinely curious way, then great.
It really has no meaning for me, which is why it's so fucking maddening.
David A:
It doesn't seem to be working that way for you, though, to be quite honest.
To give a fair and objective approval as best I can, nothing seems to work for me, and nothing seems to not work either. It seems I just keep going whether I like it or not, and I go at the pace I go whether I like it or not, and insights come at the pace they do whether I like it or not. It seems like I could make masturbating while standing on my head my practice and I'd make slow and steady progress. Or, I could make Vipassana my main practice, and I'd make slow and steady progress. I could not do any practice at all, and I'd make slow and steady progress. It's almost as if I'm in a nightmare of a constantly changing conditioned universe empty of any "self" entity. (yes.. yes.. three characteristics, of course) But, yeah...
Anyway, I could go on like this, but it's just more of the same. I appreciate your writing, because it's helped me give voice to this voice in my head, and the more I write, the more I become clear that I want this (whatever it is), and I want it now. And, I need to relax. And, I want it. And relax, and want and relax and want and relax. And, what it seems is that the relaxing allows the energy to move, and the moving energy motivates a deeper letting go, and it looks like if it's wired just right it can feed itself into oblivion.
Ahhhh.... it feels good to get that out. Anyway, I really appreciate your having my back, David. I think you bring a refreshingly different perspective which I trust comes from a great place of wisdom inside you. And I've totally got your back to be the best "not particularly good meditator" that you can be.
Also, if I get a free moment, I'll try to read those posts you linked to. thanks.
Best,
Daniel