HI Andrew -
Jan's talk which has been very useful over the last few days, especially the whole concept of suffering being a choice. All of these behaviours, reactions etc coming down to some moment of choice is very freeing. What happens if 'ill will' is seen in this light? that it is, to use a phrase Omega Point introduced to my lexicon; 'a mental posture'?
Yes, there's a point here for sure. Realize a mistake, try to remedy it, apologize, move on. I am not committed to a mental posture of suffering.
However, I do see that I am not nor do I live in a world of enlightened beings. So whether I have a posture of suffering or not, I would be nincompoop not to see that I can easily cause suffering in others. Words are powerful. (Where's Tarver on this?!)
Look at how quickly this and other threads clear out when there is inane bickering between two parties? A lot of towns in the US are dealing right now with ground water contamination, and if community forums drop into this kind of bickering, then people go home, shut their doors and do actually take stressful postures: despair, anger, numbing, hoarding, depression, exhaustion, and so on.
For me, there is a disappointment in wasting pliable moments: to lose them due to inattention is one thing, but to manage pliable moments so poorly that trust in felicitous effort is hindered? Foolish.
The human mind is totally capable of greatness in any direction, but in order to act outside of its own immediate and/or conditioned interests it takes quite a bit of observation, self-study.
And yes, I find it particularly stressful when I take a good mind and others down a wrong path. It's important to develop nimbleness and readiness for a pliable, soft moment.
I didn't find your speech to be harsh, but you did obviously.
Like a lot of people I'm pretty willing to step up to abuse of authority and conceit and employ direct, exacting language, especially if I think it can jar a person out of their foolishness.
Here, though, I do see that Claudiu did, after a few people chimed in, start to soften his positions. Those soft, pliable moments are important to foster in my experience. If those moments are pushed or jerked, it can build a rut for that person, "Well, don't soften/be pliable/be willing to change again."
I don't see anything sensible in being OK with abuses of authority (even if they are deemed in hindsight trivial...
Yes, I agree and, further, I deem nothing in this thread to be trivial. Any person's individual power is just that, though the magnitude of a person's power can be small or large.
In the information age especially, one's actual action is rightly seen for what it is, because a person's reach can grow or shrink exponentially and/or suddenly. So, someone willing to misuse authority in a local forum can easily find themselves in a forum of greater magnitude and taking the same action, building a habit of abuse.
In my opinion, we are dealing with the larger magnitude issues of "what causes suffering" in a smaller-as-yet magnitude arena. Looking at the UN news yesterday and Syria was a huge under-acheivement of human capacity. I hope it's short-lived.
The set of behaviours 'aversion to abuse of authority' could easily be quite useful if they were not causing suffering in you.
Ok, I get what you're saying. People do tell me this, that it is quite useful. As I happen to be one of those personalities that speaks up, it benefits me most to be more consistent on the skillful side...to be exacting but also pliable when a person is making the requesting shift in action.
...and aversion and opposition are different. In aversion there is limited basis for the arising of skillful action, because there's averted gaze and consequently there's delusion and ignorance of actualities as they change in any moment.
Oppositional points can arise usefully when based in attentive study. At this point in my practice, aversion is either lazy or an unchecked and unskillful habit. There is no reason not to look at events closely and patiently. To make an opposing stance based in sound observation rightly engenders support and confidence.
I can't see any good reason for not letting his pliability in thought just land. Admittedly, I thought his misused his first moment of pliability and assistance, but that was not reason to completely hound him on the next events. For example, though we are not domesticated/captive animals in training (this can be debated!), not supporting a sought-after change during animal training, no matter how small, is the worst mistake a person can make. Some changes happen in parts, very few happen in whole. It's really essential to support that if an animal is supposed to turn right and they only look to the right, then that "looking right" is the exact correct start. Looking right will become turning right with just patience, attention, timing, rest. Otherwise, one becomes dependent on force and force is definitely not enjoyable or sustainable.
So, there's quite a difference in being exacting and being exacting at the wrong time and without the gradual development that will naturally produce some degree of precision and accuracy. Traveling with friends in China once I was made aware of the huge importance of saving face, not cornering a person into their mistakes. However, I have to say, there was also a huge understanding of not wasting a life-line by furthering arrogant actions...
(...)is to have those in power to be those who 'abhor abuses of authority' through their behaviour.
Yep. This is a tricky point. If someone is in power, cannot be contained and cannot experience the painful consequences of their actions and is not showing soft areas of change, then a person has to ask, "What do I want to do here to cause change, if anything?" However, such a person is not the case here. Claudiu did offer up changes after a few people pointed out his actions.
This evidence of group chiming in does elevate the importance of people acting in honesty, self-scrutinty, close attention and as a spontaneous group. Sometimes a person will not see a need to soften and change without at least reputational risk or the power of numbers.
All of this chat runs the risk of a tight and tidy perfectionism. Such utopia's are usually grounds for horrid dictatorships. I am not looking for my or anyone's perfection here, just nodding to the tremendous capacity of the mind, particularly when it is well-studied and clear.
Gah. Big order. It's surprising how quickly my own actions can boot me out of a long period of well-being.
I appreciate the level of honesty you bring to this forum, and the approach you take. Hopefully you can suffer less and not loose that approach? (honesty)
Thanks. You, too, Andrew.
I really have never found a better, more efficient path than being candid about my mistakes. As a perk to what is momentarily hard or embarrassing, I've gotten to live and work in extraordinary parts of the world with extraordinary people. Effort attracts like effort.
My best teachers do not speak with "you" or "we" or in the imperative, rather they say, "I do" and "I've done", speaking for themselves in their own direct experience, successes and mistakes.
Thanks very much for working with me on this, Andrew.