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Skipping the instruction after a while?

The latest month I've run through three different Techniques, body-scanning, Mahasi noting and self-inquiry. I've come to a point now when I feel that I kind of can skip the main instruction and just sit down and let things happen to my body - intuitively being aware of the three characteristics.

So, is it a natural thing to skip the noting, the body-scanning or the self-inquiry after a while and just silently observe the thoughts and the sensations in the body.

Or is there any advantages of keeping up the body-scanning, mahasi-noting or the self-inquiry. In other words sticking to the instruction even if you get it intuitively?

RE: Skipping the instruction after a while?
Answer
4/18/13 12:26 AM as a reply to Vi Va -.
My motto is, be aware of whatever it is you need to be aware of in order to be aware of the present moment. If that makes sense. Daniel talks somewhere in MCTB about the messy beginning of meditation where you just have to use whatever technique works to increase awareness. Noting method sure works better once you have at least slightly increased awareness, so that you can even notice anything to note!

RE: Skipping the instruction after a while?
Answer
4/18/13 10:13 AM as a reply to Vi Va -.
Viktor Valentin Norlander Högman:
The latest month I've run through three different Techniques, body-scanning, Mahasi noting and self-inquiry. I've come to a point now when I feel that I kind of can skip the main instruction and just sit down and let things happen to my body - intuitively being aware of the three characteristics.

So, is it a natural thing to skip the noting, the body-scanning or the self-inquiry after a while and just silently observe the thoughts and the sensations in the body.

Or is there any advantages of keeping up the body-scanning, mahasi-noting or the self-inquiry. In other words sticking to the instruction even if you get it intuitively?


From a Mahasi perspective, dropping three separate techniques and just sticking to one which lets you observe mental and physical sensations, which is what you're saying that you're doing, is actually closest to the technique. Noting is just scaffolding for noticing. If you don't need the noting, and don't go off into thoughts that don't get noted, feel free to drop the noting when you don't need it.

It'll work out better for you to get really good at one way of doing things. That'll help to really make the technique yours and get you so used to doing it that it becomes second nature. I find this helps to let you get out of the way and just let things happen. All you have to do is notice those things and enjoy the ride. This is the essence of choiceless awareness.

It's inevitable that the way you do the technique will change as you discover new things. If you're only doing one technique, you'll figure out how to smoothly integrate new variations and tricks to the main technique you do in every session of meditation.

Regarding self-inquiry, there are ways of doing it by noting, but I find it's the sort of thing that works for me better when sensations arise that require that style of noting. It may also be stage-dependent.

RE: Skipping the instruction after a while?
Answer
4/18/13 10:30 AM as a reply to Vi Va -.
Viktor Valentin Norlander Högman:

So, is it a natural thing to skip the noting, the body-scanning or the self-inquiry after a while and just silently observe the thoughts and the sensations in the body.

Yes, it is. The important thing to achieve is "mindfulness and clear comprehension" (sati-sampajanna) of what is occurring in the present moment. This can be turned into investigation (contemplation) as you observe the object or subject matter that has captured your attention and observation in order to gain insight about that object or subject matter.

Viktor Valentin Norlander Högman:

Or is there any advantages of keeping up the body-scanning, mahasi-noting or the self-inquiry. In other words sticking to the instruction even if you get it intuitively?

From my perspective (which obviously isn't the perspective of the majority here) if you "get it intuitively" then that's what's important.

Some people find it advantageous to do noting in order to increase their concentration and mindfulness without the assistance of absorption meditation, and for those reasons, it can be an appropriate way to practice.

Jigme's comment is spot on: "From a Mahasi perspective, dropping three separate techniques and just sticking to one which lets you observe mental and physical sensations, which is what you're saying that you're doing, is actually closest to the technique. Noting is just scaffolding for noticing. If you don't need the noting, and don't go off into thoughts that don't get noted, feel free to drop the noting when you don't need it."

Others, however, who have benefited from the practice of absorption meditation, find the noting practice to be a distraction from their contemplation, and therefore drop it (if they ever attempted it in the first place).

RE: Skipping the instruction after a while?
Answer
4/19/13 12:42 AM as a reply to Ian And.
Thank you very much for three good answers. The last two weeks I have kind of stopped the noting. I'm unsure how this has influenced the awareness, but I suspect that my thoughts have profited on that... I think I've started to get lost in thoughts again. So it might be a good idea to begin noting all the time again, I guess.

RE: Skipping the instruction after a while?
Answer
4/19/13 11:55 AM as a reply to Vi Va -.
Viktor Valentin Norlander Högman:
Thank you very much for three good answers. The last two weeks I have kind of stopped the noting.

I'm unsure how this has influenced the awareness, but I suspect that my thoughts have profited on that... I think I've started to get lost in thoughts again. So it might be a good idea to begin noting all the time again, I guess.

That all depends on what the thoughts are about. If you're examining the five aggregates, for instance, and the thoughts that you are having relate to that subject matter, then they are worth pursuing for their value as insight! This is what insight contemplation is all about!

Just because your meditation seems to become sidetracked by arising thought doesn't automatically mean that those thoughts are to be ignored. Insight contemplation is about seeing deeper into the subject matter being examined and evaluated. Without the arising of additional information in the form of thought about these subject matters, you may be throwing out the baby with the bathwater to ignore them.

Think about this. Seriously.

Also, consider, for beginners who have not yet managed to gain control of their mind enough to consciously direct it toward the subject matter that they wish to examine, they may still be plagued with "monkey mind" wherein the mind directs itself, subconsciously, outside the parameters of the owner's wishes. In that case, it may profit one to ignore the the arising thoughts and to discipline the mind by returning to the meditation object (such as the breath and noting practice, for example).

This latter is an example of the process involved in the re-training of the mind to follow one's intended directions. However, if you are fairly certain that you have been able to compete this process of re-training, and have gained control of your mind to the extent of its obeying your commands, then you may want to consider just where the mind is going before you ignore the pathway that it is taking you down.

Meditation and contemplation are a dynamic process. If you are unfamiliar with the practice and cultivation of reconditioning the mind using these tools, then without proper guidance (in the form of a dedicated meditation guide or teacher), you could be setting yourself up for years of just spinning your wheels without going anywhere! And that truly would be sad, indeed.

RE: Skipping the instruction after a while?
Answer
5/1/13 10:39 AM as a reply to Ian And.
Yes, I definitely see your point. Contemplation and monkey mind - there's a clear difference... But let's say that I focus on my body and use the mind as a noting tool... in that case there won't be any place for other contemplative thoughts to come in. I guess this they come more natural when your monkey mind has quiet... can you give any example of "good thoughts", thoughts to follow...?

Can I just ask a question about notice practice as well, vaguely linked to what we have been talking about. I've come to realize that there's a large variety of how you can do this notice practice... you can actually keep noting one sensation in one particular part of the body for the whole meditation session "vibration, vibration, vibration, vibration", you can also constantly change the object for your object, like "pain, vibration, cold, warm, rising, pain" like very fast... you can also do it more slowly "pain, pain, vibration, vibration, cold, cold..." ... I'm not sure if there is any recommendation of the pace you should do this in?

RE: Skipping the instruction after a while?
Answer
5/1/13 11:06 AM as a reply to Vi Va -.
Btw, I have pretty much confusion on how to use the technique and so on right now... I shift between body scanning and mahasi noting, sometimes I let myself go into remembering my past... what I'm trying to say is that I don't stick to a solid technique for the moment, and it makes me confused... my focus is okey, I'm shifting between DN and equanimity over and over again... but still a lot of monkey mind and so on (although I don't identify with it like before. I would be very profitable to work with a teacher but I'm not sure I can actually afford it right now. Saying all this my real question is - is it a good idea to keep a practice log here? Do people read it and give advice? Can I ask questions in the practice log? Or is it a better idea to just make a new post for every time I come up with a question.

RE: Skipping the instruction after a while?
Answer
5/1/13 12:08 PM as a reply to Vi Va -.
Viktor Valentin Norlander Högman:
can you give any example of "good thoughts", thoughts to follow...?


Anything like metta practice, any thoughts about where to direct attention now, the nature of the current moment's suffering, the clinging/craving underlying it, how to release that, how that relates to the eightfold path. Any thoughts about whether what's arising in the mind at the moment is skillful or unskillful.

RE: Skipping the instruction after a while?
Answer
4/19/13 12:52 AM as a reply to Vi Va -.
Whatever keeps you looking at what's there. I found getting to equanimity was much easier with noting and a lot of brain shifts happened because of it but then in order to see more subtle things like intending to pay attention or the act of meditation itself I switched to Shikatanza (do nothing) practice to just let it wash over "me" and any movement to investigate or create an experience (like equanimity) can be seen as clinging. The next thing is to see dependent origination and the five aggregates long enough to see the three characteristics in them and to therefore get disenchanted by them.