Sadalsuud Beta Aquarii:
Hi J C
from my own experience of doing what I think is MCTB 4th path, indecision and processes of deliberation still occur, but they feel very different to previous.
For example, I am deciding whether to get another chocolate bar or not. My body stands up from the desk, and a thought arises, "no, save the money, you just had lunch". The body sits back down and looks at the computer screen. The screen and task are seen, and a sensation of aversion arises. The body starts to stand up again, but then stops, in a weird stoop. Another thought arises, "this is ridiculous!". The body sits back in the chair and very brief mental images of chocolate bars arise.
Basically all the same thoughts, sensations, patterns occur, but as you don't believe that any of them are 'you', they pass through the mind in a much less jarring way. Previously being in indecision, eg conflicting thoughts, felt like arguing with someone, ie myself - really jarring, and frustration would increase. Now, the exact same deliberation feels like listening to a couple next to you in a cafe arguing. Because you're not in the argument, it's much less jarring and much less frustration arises.
Wow, thanks! That was really helpful, particularly the analogy of listening to a couple arguing. I have a few questions:
1. Was there a clear difference in this respect before and after becoming an arahat, or was there sort of a gradual fading away? How about at any of the other paths? I notice meditation makes things less "sticky" for me even without attaining anything.
2. Since you said "what I think is MCTB 4th path" what makes you think you might or might not have attained it? How long did it take you to attain?
3. This is hard to express in language, but: when the thought "this is ridiculous" occurs, or something like that, is there any desire to change the way you're doing things or the actions you take? Do "you" want to stop deliberating? If there's no controller, can you change what you're doing, or does the change occur and there is just awareness of all the accompanying thoughts and actions?
I know that one thought cannot control another thought or action, they just appear... I'm just wondering how observation and change work. Is it still possible to change habits or the way you do things, and how does that work? Is it just that mind observes itself doing things and then it makes a change, with no "you," no center controller to actually decide or make the change?
My mind is getting very confused... the best analogy I can come up with now is a certain state of drunkenness where it just feels like things are flowing and happening on their own.