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Seiza posture - bad for your back?

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Seiza posture - bad for your back?
physical tension posture seiza
Answer
5/8/13 2:16 AM
Hello all,

I've had this hang up... every once in a while I start worrying that my seiza posture (kneeling) can be bad for my back. The reason is that the spine curves in when I sit in seiza and from what I understand this is normal. But from time to time the tension in the lower back gets more intense and along with that my worrying thoughts get more intense too.

In all other ways I like seiza, it's stabile and so on... but the curve of the back keeps annoying me. I've tried to change to burmese now, which works OK.

Anyway, does any of you know anything about this? Is there anyone who solely uses the seiza posture? Do you recognize my problem? Do you have anything to say?

RE: Seiza posture - bad for your back?
Answer
5/8/13 3:16 AM as a reply to Vi Va -.
Do you have any kind of back problems when not in this posture i.e. in the rest of your life?

RE: Seiza posture - bad for your back?
Answer
5/8/13 4:10 AM as a reply to bernd the broter.
No, not too bad, I just have a hard time keeping it straight. I think this is mostly a bad habit, since I've been letting my body and back sunk down all my life... trying to keep it straight results in a lot of tension... this tension forwardly results in neurotic thoughts about sitting in a wrong posture, catastrophe thoughts about injuring my back for ever and so on... like I said this hang up on the back arises only once in a while and then it leaves.

Now it's been stealing a bit of my attention for a few days, so I thought I would just sort it out, making a post here... making sure that I can't actually get injured by the Seiza posture. I think it's important that I accept the natural curve of the seiza posture, because as it is now I seem to want the back to be straight... but the curve is natural, right, and couldn't possibly tear on the back?

I think maybe my back is not perfect, but I'm trying to do a few yoga practices (like lying on the floor and lifting the legs and the upper torso).

If the pain increases I guess I'll go see a doctor.

RE: Seiza posture - bad for your back?
Answer
5/8/13 4:26 AM as a reply to Vi Va -.
Seems fine for the back. If your knees are tight it might make things difficult. I just tried it and I reckon my legs would last 2 minutes before the circulation was cut off.

RE: Seiza posture - bad for your back?
Answer
5/8/13 5:18 AM as a reply to Vi Va -.
Hi Viktor.

I often sit in seiza, and I occationally get the same problem with aches in the curve of the back.

The way I deal with it is to curve the lower back a little backwards with just a little bit hip rotation. This also makes the body lean a bit more backwards on the cushion.
It is small changes but they remove my aches in the lower back if I do them from the start.

Hope it helps.

RE: Seiza posture - bad for your back?
Answer
5/8/13 7:27 AM as a reply to Pejn ..
Yes, I think I see... this straightens out the curve a little right? As you simultaneously sink down a little bit, getting a more relaxed posture? I will try to work with his.

RE: Seiza posture - bad for your back?
Answer
5/8/13 4:02 PM as a reply to Vi Va -.
If you think it's just a "bad habit" then it should be possible to "retrain" that. I've lately been using the Feldenkrais method to achieve this. Although it normally takes a bit of time to gain lasting improvement, it's quite effective. I think Yoga doesn't really help in this respect because it doesn't focus on changing body behaviour in its details.

RE: Seiza posture - bad for your back?
Answer
5/8/13 4:08 PM as a reply to bernd the broter.
Can you describe Feldenkrais method (and how you apply it to specifically this issue with bad posture)?

RE: Seiza posture - bad for your back?
Answer
5/9/13 2:43 AM as a reply to Vi Va -.
I wrote about my first experience with it here:
there

The method works on the assumption that with less tension you can feel everything in more detail and thus you are more able to feel new ways of doing something. So, the 'lectures' in this method are assembled in a way that leads you to discover the 'optimal' way to do it on your own. In every lecture you'll take the whole body into account, but there are some with focus on the back. You do small movements in a certain way to discover how the body parts work together and usually discover that those movements can be done easier than you're doing than now.

So, I would suggest finding a lecture that teaches control over the back. But that's not necessarily the best way to proceed - if the pain is in the lower back, that doesn't necessarily mean that an 'error' in the lower back usage is actually the reason for this pain, it might as well be somewhere else.
There are also trained Feldenkrais practitioners who could look on your problem in detail and probably find out a solution for this. Sadly, they're rather expensive.

So if I was in your situation I would just walk into the next library and lend some books such as this Awareness through movementhttp://www.amazon.com/Awareness-Through-Movement-Easy---Do/dp/0062503227/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1368085127&sr=8-1&keywords=awareness+through+movement
which contain instructions for some lectures. It's not easy to get the feeling for how it's done best, so one lesson under a teacher (first lesson is usually free) might be a good idea.

RE: Seiza posture - bad for your back?
Answer
5/9/13 2:48 AM as a reply to bernd the broter.
Ok, thank you.

I also found this series on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=y6NnVWeJ-nY

Feidenkrais method for back pain.

I think I'll start with those exercises. Thanks a lot.

RE: Seiza posture - bad for your back?
Answer
5/10/13 10:25 AM as a reply to Vi Va -.
I just watched this video. It may be a good introduction to the method.
Keep in mind though that a regular Feldenkrais lecture takes about an hour, since it connects many parts of the body (that is, all parts of the body with special focus). So I don't know how far those introductory exercises can get you.