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One the Nature of Cycling and 'Falling Back Down'

Hi Everyone,

I've been lurking here for a while, but this is my first post. My question pertains to how one progresses through the cycles of insight. In MCTB, Daniel talks about how he's experienced A&P territory and been in the lower stages of insight thousands of times. He mentions how one can reach some low version of equanimity and then 'fall back down.'

At the same time, he talks about how people can be 'Dark Night Yogis' for years and years. If these Dark Night Yogis have stopped practicing, or stopped practicing effectively why do they stagnate and not 'fall back down' to some state below the A&P?

Reading this forum has greatly helped my practice, so thank you.

RE: One the Nature of Cycling and 'Falling Back Down'
Answer
9/11/13 7:14 AM as a reply to Zach M..
Howdy Zach,
welcome!

So to your question: If these Dark Night Yogis have stopped practicing, or stopped practicing effectively why do they stagnate and not 'fall back down' to some state below the A&P?

If one is pre path, by definition, each meditation session starts "below" A&P.

If one is consistantly practicing or on retreat one can stay bouyantly above the A&P from session to session. I think the reference to "falling back" refers to equanimity.

It takes a bit of effort to work one's way up to that level and it is very common to spend much time and energy getting up to that point. If after all that work, in retreat for example, one doesn't close the deal (Stream Entry), falling back to below the dark night stages is very common.

I write from my personal experience.

I hope this helps.

tom

RE: One the Nature of Cycling and 'Falling Back Down'
Answer
9/11/13 7:40 AM as a reply to tom moylan.
I don't think I came up with this conclusion until recently. For me, now I can see that everything we (or at least I) do has that cycle whether we knew it or not. So in a way, there is no falling back. We are always cycling through them. This will sound very differently from what has been advocated here in general, but I think to reach any paths, everything in your life really has to come together when we really face with our desire and fear and what brought us to meditate in the first place. Just my personal observation, which could be wrong and different from what others experience.

RE: One the Nature of Cycling and 'Falling Back Down'
Answer
8/2/14 1:10 AM as a reply to tom moylan.
I'm pre-path, as far as I know, and my mediations start at the A&P, never at mind & body anymore. I remember what mind & body was like, but it has been gone for a long time now (2 years). I'm really unclear about how "falling back" works. MCTB2 should clarify this topic.

RE: One the Nature of Cycling and 'Falling Back Down'
Answer
8/2/14 3:32 AM as a reply to Zach M..
I've been hovering around Dark Night - Reobservation - Equanimity now for about 6 months. The lowest I ever start from is A&P, and I often start from ReObservation or even Equanimity if I have been particularly mindfull during the day.