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More on the "suicide reflex"

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More on the "suicide reflex"
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4/16/14 8:53 AM
Hi everyone,

A few weeks ago, I posted a thread on here describing what I call the suicide reflex...kind of a helpless and hopeless desire for salvation that springs forth from the root up to the head and crown area.

Such sensations are generally not fun. This kind of thing is about as dark as it gets in the dharma world.

Now, while part of me would have liked to come on here and report that I am happier and have a brighter vision on the world, thus no longer getting such impulses for ending my own life. This is only partially true. I still get the suicide reflex, however.

Last night I was meditating during a evening group centering prayer exercise at a local church. At one point I kind of got lost in thought. I kept noticing how my mind was giving me the sense of unifying and then reproducing, unifying and reproducing. It was a rather restful state of mind.
Well, something happened and my mind got desperate...the suicide reflex kicked in. What happened next shocked me, however. I noticed that the act of wanting to end my life was in fact a coming together of my mind in a very complete sense (as complete as it can get in the dharma world, that is), and that this union (which happened at the crown, I think) produced its own little dharma offspring.

It was indeed a moment for silently rejoicing.

RE: More on the "suicide reflex"
Answer
4/18/14 2:34 PM as a reply to Adam Dietrich Ringle.
I had similar sensations going on during the worst of my Dark night period this winter. It was the thoughts of suicide accompanied by a rising, rushing feeling from my feet up through my chest and then to the crown, like something was trying desperately to escape. Perhaps an exorcism would've saved some time, but I just kept practicing through it. I began to notice funny things, like that my suicidal thoughts were accompanied by the smell of cooking french fries ( this was in a park, at night, with the wind blowing). I interpreted this as the insight practice burning off the unhealthy brain matter that habitual negativity had shored up. It worked for me, and looking back I can say I was definitely in the Disgust or Desire for Deliverance stage. All kinds of weird body things were happening, especially in the head region, don't be too alarmed, they pass and won't hurt you. I ended up going back on anti depressants, which felt like failure at the time but they bought me some breathing room and helped me focus enough to organize my practice in a way that gets me to low Equanimity fairly reliably. I can go on if anyone is interested.

RE: More on the "suicide reflex"
Answer
8/17/14 12:33 PM as a reply to Adam Dietrich Ringle.
I think that such types of "suicide reflexes" (that is, the feeling of acting out such an action without actually killing oneself) are unpleasant because they expose our attachment to pleasurable objects that we may have been meditating on.

RE: More on the "suicide reflex"
Answer
8/21/14 5:02 PM as a reply to Adam Dietrich Ringle.
Adam Dietrich Ringle:
I think that such types of "suicide reflexes" (that is, the feeling of acting out such an action without actually killing oneself) are unpleasant because they expose our attachment to pleasurable objects that we may have been meditating on.


And if your mind is really messed up you may even reach meditative absorption on the wish to be annhilated

RE: More on the "suicide reflex"
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8/21/14 5:51 PM as a reply to Adam Dietrich Ringle.
Wiki link - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ta%E1%B9%87h%C4%81
The Buddha identified three types of taṇhā
  • Kama-tanha (sense-craving): craving for sense objects which provide pleasant feeling, or craving for sensory pleasures.
  • Bhava-tanha (craving to be): craving to be something, to
    unite with an experience. This includes craving to be solid and ongoing,
    to be a being that has a past and a future,[8] and craving to prevail and dominate over others.
  • Vibhava-tanha (craving not to be): craving to not experience the world, and to be nothing; a wish to be separated from painful feelings.
Vibhava-tanha is described as follows:
  • Pali: vibhava-taṇhā
  • Also referred to as craving for "no becoming" or "non-existence" or "extermination"
  • This is craving to not experience the world, and to be nothing.[4]
  • The Dalai Lama states that craving for "destruction is a wish to be separated from painful feelings".[11]
  • Ron Leifer states: "As the desire for life is based on the desire
    for pleasure and happiness, the desire for death is based on the desire
    to escape pain and ... The desire for death is the yearning
    for relief from pain, from anxiety, from disappointment, despair, and
    negativity."[12]
  • "The motive for the desire for death is most transparent in cases of
    suicide. Clearly, people with terminal illnesses who commit suicide are
    motivated by the desire to escape from physical pain and suffering. In
    so-called "altruistic" suicide, such as hari-kari, kamakazi, and other forms of socially conditioned suicide, the motive is to avoid mental suffering–shame, humiliation, and disgrace."

RE: More on the "suicide reflex"
Answer
8/22/14 3:44 PM as a reply to Adam Dietrich Ringle.
I tried this kind of practice mentioned above...it has a way of spiraling into meaninglessness. 

RE: More on the "suicide reflex"
Answer
8/22/14 8:21 PM as a reply to Adam Dietrich Ringle.
Hey, I have that problem too. Picked it up in the Dark Night two years ago and it hasn't really gone away, even though I generally have good days. I have suicidal thoughts multiple times a day, even when I'm in a good mood, it's just like a weird Desire for Deliverance thing I think.

You need to be careful with this. Do you have a plan for committing suicide? Have you thought about method, aftermath, etc? If so, it's probably more than just a reflex and it's time to see a psychologist. 

RE: More on the "suicide reflex"
Answer
8/24/14 10:48 AM as a reply to Eric M W.
Thanks...I see a psychiatrist and psychologist regularly.