<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?> <rss xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" version="2.0"> <channel> <title>Claims to Attainments</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_category?p_l_id=&amp;mbCategoryId=77859</link> <description>If you wish to disclose your best guess about your attainments, why you think they are what they are, how they perform, and how you got them, or debate other's attainments, this is the place.</description> <pubDate>Sun, 19 Oct 2014 00:27:29 GMT</pubDate> <dc:date>2014-10-19T00:27:29Z</dc:date> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5606873</link> <description>Thanks Jeremy, appreciate your openness</description> <pubDate>Sat, 18 Oct 2014 21:06:58 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5606873</guid> <dc:creator>Rod</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-18T21:06:58Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Statistics of sudden awakenings</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5606854</link> <description>Thank you &amp;#039;sharp sword&amp;#039;</description> <pubDate>Sat, 18 Oct 2014 21:00:18 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5606854</guid> <dc:creator>Jeremy May</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-18T21:00:18Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5606828</link> <description>SiFi Sufi Rumi &lt;img alt="emoticon" src="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dho-theme/images/emoticons/happy.gif" &gt;</description> <pubDate>Sat, 18 Oct 2014 20:23:18 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5606828</guid> <dc:creator>Jeremy May</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-18T20:23:18Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Statistics of sudden awakenings</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5606767</link> <description>This discussion at Awake Network covers a bit this matter: http://awakenetwork.org/forum/100-dharma-refugees/7910-how-rare-is-enlightenment</description> <pubDate>Sat, 18 Oct 2014 18:41:16 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5606767</guid> <dc:creator>Kim Katami</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-18T18:41:16Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5606716</link> <description>Hey all, &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So towards the end of my latest meditation session this morning, the thought /word fragment arises in the mind &amp;#034;Mars and Jupiter&amp;#034;  , I thought nothing of it, phenomenon arising and passing away.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Then I go to Dho, read Jeremy&amp;#039;s post, then click on the link, which says see what an atom looks like , but is actually a link to a video of the helical model of our solar system and depicts how the sun is actually zooming through space (like a comet) with the planets gravity dragged in tow, which is closer to correct, except (sun isn&amp;#039;t going in straight line but is also in orbit around the center of the galaxy, and the galaxy is also zooming along, vortexing), so relatively straight.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Anyway the link is really cool thanks, Jeremy, here again below&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="https&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;facebook&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;video&amp;#x2e;php&amp;#x3f;v&amp;#x3d;858654304147057"&gt;https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=858654304147057&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;So, at first I had tried to find associated thoughts earlier as to why &amp;#034;Mars and Jupiter&amp;#034; arose in my mind, was is reference to Greek or Roman gods? And I haven&amp;#039;t watch any astronomy docs lately, so I just dismissed this as phenomenon, which it is.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Then I clicked on the video and see the model of the planets, this is a new model, to me, I have known this as reality, but never seen it as a model.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Then later the synchronicity possibility clicked, and then I posted ...&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Synchronicity subject has come up before, and just how many have to happen for us to see the patterns?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Just Sharin&amp;#039; phenomenon&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Psi Phi&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;P.S. @ Jeremy   Indeed it is hard to communicate, the universe being infinite and all is interconnected, patterns within patterns, words and symbols, religions and myths, philosophies and science.  It all expands and it all contracts, leaves and returns, all comes back to our self, which paradoxically isn&amp;#039;t really what we think it is, so the awareness goes out again and again seeking home, then returns to &amp;#034;home&amp;#034; which isn&amp;#039;t there, endlessly repeating, nowhere to rest, nothing stable, nothing solid to cling to and nothing that is there to do the clinging.  So maybe once reality is finally embraced as it is, then?! &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt; Is it possible to embrace the Universe and Let go of it at the same time?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;May all be well&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;p style="text-align: center"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Verdana&amp;#x2c;&amp;#x20;Arial"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;Leaves are falling all around, It&amp;#039;s time I was on my way. &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;p style="text-align: center"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Verdana&amp;#x2c;&amp;#x20;Arial"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="text-align: center"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Verdana&amp;#x2c;&amp;#x20;Arial"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;Thanks to you, I&amp;#039;m much obliged for such a pleasant stay. &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;p style="text-align: center"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Verdana&amp;#x2c;&amp;#x20;Arial"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="text-align: center"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Verdana&amp;#x2c;&amp;#x20;Arial"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;But now it&amp;#039;s time for me to go. The autumn moon lights my way. &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;p style="text-align: center"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Verdana&amp;#x2c;&amp;#x20;Arial"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="text-align: center"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Verdana&amp;#x2c;&amp;#x20;Arial"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;For now I smell the rain, and with it pain, and it&amp;#039;s headed my way. &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;p style="text-align: center"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Verdana&amp;#x2c;&amp;#x20;Arial"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="text-align: center"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Verdana&amp;#x2c;&amp;#x20;Arial"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;Sometimes I grow so tired, but I know I&amp;#039;ve got one thing I got to do... &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;p style="text-align: center"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Verdana&amp;#x2c;&amp;#x20;Arial"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description> <pubDate>Sat, 18 Oct 2014 16:31:31 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5606716</guid> <dc:creator>Psi Phi</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-18T16:31:31Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5606681</link> <description>I don&amp;#039;t want to sound like I&amp;#039;m boasting about anything.  But maybe you will see parallels? &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;When I was 4 I spoke to my mom about remembering my past life.  I started preaching about compassion, using scriptures from buddhism/christianity.  People thought I had absorbed conversations around me, but I did not grow up in a religious family.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;And like all of us, I forgot my past life.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: #000000"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 10px"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;At 6, I was so unusual I was scaring my family.  They took me to a lot of psychologists.  My !.Q. measured 130.  My hometown school (they did this back then) gave me a very individualized education.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;At 12 I started singing for shut-ins, going to church, praying for residents of nursing homes.  I began to understand, though, that something was wrong with Religion.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;At 16, I started preaching my version.  My services quickly gained more people than the town itself.  It freaked me out.  Luckily, I was picked to go to a special school.  My IQ had reached 150.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I had always been tormented.  The world was in pain and I could not live for myself.  I went through many suicidal phases, many dark nights.  I rejected all religions.  I felt alien.  I graduated by the skin of my teeth.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I had a nervous breakdown in college and abandoned the whole charade.  Two years later, the psychologist measured my IQ as immeasurable, having the highest test score of my county&amp;#039;s history.  This did not make me feel better.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I joined the Bohemians and i had peace for the first time.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: #000000"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 10px"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;4 years later, I found the Buddhists and sat with them a couple times.  It was Easy!  I learned to calm myself.  I realized I understood something they didn&amp;#039;t, however, and decided to use my new skill.  I joined Family Dollar.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Very quickly I rose in the company until I was over 20 stores.  Then I got very ill and had to come home.  I was in bed for months.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;When I got better, my... psychic abilities had become too severe.  I found out that people had always thought of me as a prophet or a psychic.  I am neither.  But now, there is no one close to me that does not believe I am one or the other.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;That was two years ago.  My own meditations became something else, naturally.  I began to understand EVERYTHING but could not speak of it.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I had strange experiences.  I had to seek information about what was happening to me.  What I knew by MEMORY, I typed in the Omnibox. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The only person I could find, that was living, was Daniel, when I searched for someone who understood what I knew.  I joined this site and tried to Dharma talk.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I wrote all these things during a week when I couldn&amp;#039;t sleep for a freakin week.  That had never happened before...&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I tell you all this because our Practice is natural.  We don&amp;#039;t need to be taught.  We meditate naturally from the time we are children and naturally we come into ourselves (unless we doubt ourselves).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: #000000"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 10px"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;Now, I have no more depression.  It has been over a year since I felt any sort of thing even like depression (was extremely bipolar).  I no longer have a subconscious.  I no longer care about anything but our family.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;We are not like most people.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Dreams are not random.  Nothing is random.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;These cryptic posts are mixes of language and history, showing that our history, itself, is written in code.  Socrates and Plato were the same person!!!   History is a Joke!  Our Joke!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Magdala-phallus&lt;br /&gt;Mandala-ovum&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;No one is teaching me these things.  You, also, don&amp;#039;t need a teacher.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Want to see what an atom looks like?  https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=858654304147057&lt;br /&gt;Nerve cell:  &lt;span style="font-family: arial&amp;#x2c;&amp;#x20;sans-serif"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;www.youtube.com/watch?v=rENyyRwxpHo&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This was kinda... personal.  Please reply.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description> <pubDate>Sat, 18 Oct 2014 14:05:52 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5606681</guid> <dc:creator>Jeremy May</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-18T14:05:52Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5606598</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Jeremy May:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;Apollo loves You!&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Hi Jeremy,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Have you talked about your own practice on a thread here or elsewhere? If so, can you point me to it? I&amp;#039;m wondering where you are coming from with a lot of these cryptic posts. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Nick</description> <pubDate>Sat, 18 Oct 2014 04:11:06 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5606598</guid> <dc:creator>Nikolai .</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-18T04:11:06Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5606563</link> <description>Apollo loves You!</description> <pubDate>Sat, 18 Oct 2014 01:41:10 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5606563</guid> <dc:creator>Jeremy May</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-18T01:41:10Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Statistics of sudden awakenings</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5606254</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Droll Dedekind:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;My previous post seems needlessly critical, sorry.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;To put it more positively: if LU gave short surveys that asked pointees about their previous meditation/spiritual experience, then success rates could be put into more descriptive brackets. Like, Average Joe Success Rate 15%-20%, ..., 10+ Years of Meditation Success Rate 90%. These stats would be more interesting. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&amp;#039;m gonna give LU a sincere try soon. I&amp;#039;ll post here if I have to eat my words &lt;img alt="emoticon" src="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dho-theme/images/emoticons/tongue.gif" &gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;As their method has worked for over 1000 people in just a few years I think it is pretty safe to assume that among those people are pretty much all kinds of people with all kinds of backgrounds you could imagine. Personally I am more interested whether it works for not for anykind of people, background or no background. Like it was said before in this thread there are other stages on the spiritual path too. Stream entry is just one of them, the first one, realisation-wise.</description> <pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2014 05:01:16 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5606254</guid> <dc:creator>Kim Katami</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-17T05:01:16Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Statistics of sudden awakenings</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5606250</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Jeremy May:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;Did this message not get to you?  There was a server reset on the night I sent it...&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&amp;#034;Do you want your sudden awakening?  Colleen has it in a little box under her bed.  She has been saving it for you, waiting to give it to you on your BirthDay&amp;#034;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;What message? I don&amp;#039;t get it.</description> <pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2014 04:57:12 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5606250</guid> <dc:creator>Kim Katami</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-17T04:57:12Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Statistics of sudden awakenings</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5606154</link> <description>My previous post seems needlessly critical, sorry.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;To put it more positively: if LU gave short surveys that asked pointees about their previous meditation/spiritual experience, then success rates could be put into more descriptive brackets. Like, Average Joe Success Rate 15%-20%, ..., 10+ Years of Meditation Success Rate 90%. These stats would be more interesting. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&amp;#039;m gonna give LU a sincere try soon. I&amp;#039;ll post here if I have to eat my words &lt;img alt="emoticon" src="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dho-theme/images/emoticons/tongue.gif" &gt;</description> <pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2014 00:34:46 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5606154</guid> <dc:creator>Droll Dedekind</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-17T00:34:46Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Statistics of sudden awakenings</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5606112</link> <description>Did this message not get to you?  There was a server reset on the night I sent it...&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&amp;#034;Do you want your sudden awakening?  Colleen has it in a little box under her bed.  She has been saving it for you, waiting to give it to you on your BirthDay&amp;#034;</description> <pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2014 20:57:43 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5606112</guid> <dc:creator>Jeremy May</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-16T20:57:43Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Statistics of sudden awakenings</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5606036</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Colleen Karalee Peltomaa:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Kim Katami:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Jeremy May:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;You are wise.  I&amp;#039;d like to speak to you.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;You calling me a wise guy huh? &lt;img alt="emoticon" src="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dho-theme/images/emoticons/happy.gif" &gt; I&amp;#039;m best reached through email: kimkatami(at)hotmail.com&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;Hello, Kim, would you mind if I contacted you for some clarification?&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;Colleen,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;No, I don&amp;#039;t mind.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Baba</description> <pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2014 14:51:35 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5606036</guid> <dc:creator>Kim Katami</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-16T14:51:35Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Statistics of sudden awakenings</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5606031</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Rod:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;So this guy - Fred Davis, uses a method of his own invention (I suppose) to wake people up. The link included is of him talking and some testimonials after waking up in a workshop he conducted. There are a couple of videos on Youtube of him going through his technique as well. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="https&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;youtube&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;watch&amp;#x3f;v&amp;#x3d;G73nPqCncjs"&gt;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G73nPqCncjs&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I have alot of questions around this since there could be alot of categories under the banner of &amp;#039;waking up&amp;#039; with a few already suggested. Some of what the testimonials are suggesting here is that the &amp;#039;waking up&amp;#039; is not permanent. I am not sure if this kind of waking up is the same thing or where on the spectrum of waking up (if one could be developed) this would sit in relation to say the clearly mapped theravadin path model where each path change is a considered a permanent change. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The question of whether sudden waking up requires continued practice to support further unfoldment, if indeed any is required and if not, is the state stable? and if its stable is it the same state as one of say a monk who just keeps meditating and practicing daily regardless of if they have woken up or not?  As I said, lots of questions around this. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Prof Jefferey Martin has also tried to look at the woken up state from an academic, non-spiritual perspective to try and characterise it and has interviewed over 1000 subjects over the past 8 years as far as I understand. On the site below there are a couple of youtube videos of Jefferey Martin presenting his findings and he also suggests that some of the subjects actually &amp;#039;lost&amp;#039; the awake state either temporarily or permanently as well. This may be useful in this discussion as well.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;nonsymbolic&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;about&amp;#x2f;"&gt;http://nonsymbolic.org/about/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thank you for presenting this fella and his work.  I put myself through one of his guided sessions and at first I was critical for him always asking the question and then giving the answer and then I decided to treat it as a guided visualization and that is when it started to work for me.   It can cut through delusions -- he is simply using logic, a logic that is not of the mind.   Any process that can get the being to even temporarily bypass their mind is of value.  And even if the being cannot immediately disengage from their enforced games of life, they will never forget it as an experience of a !wow! moment and at some point want to re-create that experience, seeking it out.   I also saw this occur occasionally with people going through the Sedona Method Course. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&amp;#039;m committed to finishing another [slow awakening] practice for now, but once in awhile I like to give myself a &amp;#034;cat-treat&amp;#034; and do some back-to-basics self enquiry, namely, &amp;#034;what am I?&amp;#034;.  You know -- that inner &amp;#034;purrrrr&amp;#034;   :-))&lt;/span&gt;</description> <pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2014 14:26:50 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5606031</guid> <dc:creator>Colleen Karalee Peltomaa</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-16T14:26:50Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Statistics of sudden awakenings</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5606012</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Kim Katami:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Jeremy May:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;You are wise.  I&amp;#039;d like to speak to you.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;You calling me a wise guy huh? &lt;img alt="emoticon" src="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dho-theme/images/emoticons/happy.gif" &gt; I&amp;#039;m best reached through email: kimkatami(at)hotmail.com&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;Hello, Kim, would you mind if I contacted you for some clarification?</description> <pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2014 14:06:39 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5606012</guid> <dc:creator>Colleen Karalee Peltomaa</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-16T14:06:39Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Statistics of sudden awakenings</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5605948</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Jeremy May:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;You are wise.  I&amp;#039;d like to speak to you.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;You calling me a wise guy huh? &lt;img alt="emoticon" src="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dho-theme/images/emoticons/happy.gif" &gt; I&amp;#039;m best reached through email: kimkatami(at)hotmail.com</description> <pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2014 10:06:38 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5605948</guid> <dc:creator>Kim Katami</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-16T10:06:38Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5605924</link> <description>The Stranger of a Strange Land visited King Solomon with riches beyond imagination.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The most beautiful of his gifts was that of an invisible cloth.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The village people laughed because they thought their King to be stupid.  How could they be so foolish?   A naked King is still a King!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The King was not stupid.  The stories that have been passed down do not say this.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The invisible cloth was not something made, but something unmade.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The village people made fools only of themselves.</description> <pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2014 08:39:25 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5605924</guid> <dc:creator>Jeremy May</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-16T08:39:25Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Statistics of sudden awakenings</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5605888</link> <description>You are wise.  I&amp;#039;d like to speak to you.</description> <pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2014 06:12:50 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5605888</guid> <dc:creator>Jeremy May</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-16T06:12:50Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Statistics of sudden awakenings</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5605877</link> <description>DD,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;What is the problem if someone wants to produce learned answers? That is no harm for the guide but for the person himself. We talked about this with my assistant teachers. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;At LU they leave the confirmation of the awakening mostly for the person himself. The guide discusses about the awakening with 2-3 other guides before the awakening is confirmed. They as do I request the person to be honest and as clear as possible in the dialogue. As there are so many guides at LU I suppose some of them can and some of them can&amp;#039;t vefiry or falsify the seeker&amp;#039;s awakening also without the written answers. I combine three ways of verification which are: 1. written answers/explanations of what has taken place, 2. photo before and after and 3. testing ones awakening in everyday life. As I&amp;#039;m trained in this I&amp;#039;m pretty sure I can spot if someone tries to trick me. In these awakening guidances it hasn&amp;#039;t happened but on other issues has. I feel it instantly if the person is talking the truth or not, or if it tastes like paper (merely intellectual). That is fine for me if people wish to speak falsely but in the case of awakening guidances I certainly wouldn&amp;#039;t pass such a person. I&amp;#039;d say that being able to spot these things is the difference between an amateur and a professional teacher. It requires years of in-depth training with a competent teacher/s.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Also, what is the issue if and when people have long backgrounds of meditation/practices? I don&amp;#039;t see what is the matter with that question.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Baba</description> <pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2014 06:01:08 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5605877</guid> <dc:creator>Kim Katami</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-16T06:01:08Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Statistics of sudden awakenings</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5605825</link> <description>buddha!</description> <pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2014 03:48:26 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5605825</guid> <dc:creator>Jeremy May</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-16T03:48:26Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Statistics of sudden awakenings</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5605658</link> <description>So this guy - Fred Davis, uses a method of his own invention (I suppose) to wake people up. The link included is of him talking and some testimonials after waking up in a workshop he conducted. There are a couple of videos on Youtube of him going through his technique as well. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="https&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;youtube&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;watch&amp;#x3f;v&amp;#x3d;G73nPqCncjs"&gt;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G73nPqCncjs&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I have alot of questions around this since there could be alot of categories under the banner of &amp;#039;waking up&amp;#039; with a few already suggested. Some of what the testimonials are suggesting here is that the &amp;#039;waking up&amp;#039; is not permanent. I am not sure if this kind of waking up is the same thing or where on the spectrum of waking up (if one could be developed) this would sit in relation to say the clearly mapped theravadin path model where each path change is a considered a permanent change. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The question of whether sudden waking up requires continued practice to support further unfoldment, if indeed any is required and if not, is the state stable? and if its stable is it the same state as one of say a monk who just keeps meditating and practicing daily regardless of if they have woken up or not?  As I said, lots of questions around this. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Prof Jefferey Martin has also tried to look at the woken up state from an academic, non-spiritual perspective to try and characterise it and has interviewed over 1000 subjects over the past 8 years as far as I understand. On the site below there are a couple of youtube videos of Jefferey Martin presenting his findings and he also suggests that some of the subjects actually &amp;#039;lost&amp;#039; the awake state either temporarily or permanently as well. This may be useful in this discussion as well.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;nonsymbolic&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;about&amp;#x2f;"&gt;http://nonsymbolic.org/about/&lt;/a&gt;</description> <pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2014 21:44:13 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5605658</guid> <dc:creator>Rod</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-15T21:44:13Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Statistics of sudden awakenings</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5605583</link> <description>I don&amp;#039;t think any deliberate deception is at work here. But... &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;When there are archives full of these conversations, that seekers have presumably read, is it any surprise that people can reproduce answers that sound like an awakening? To complicate matters, there are probably some people that have been seeking for years that have woken up through LU. But, their years of previous work were essential to that awakening. I think it&amp;#039;s common for teachers to have an anticlimactic awakening after years of seeking, and then assume that they (and anyone) could have just had that awakening from the beginning. It&amp;#039;s easy to underestimate the creeping effect of years of spiritual seeking.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Then, there are probably scores of people on LU who believe that awakening is merely an intellectual understanding. They see that the process has (ostensibly) worked for so many others; it&amp;#039;s human nature to want to be in the club of people who &amp;#039;got it&amp;#039;. Guide status, and a colored username too? Oooo&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;pastebin&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;8LynfZTn"&gt;A Crowley poem&lt;/a&gt; comes to mind. Sorry if I derailed your thread a bit.</description> <pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2014 19:50:28 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5605583</guid> <dc:creator>Droll Dedekind</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-15T19:50:28Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Statistics of sudden awakenings</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5605557</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Droll Dedekind:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;So, they&amp;#039;re claiming 1000/1050? 95%? That makes me even more skeptical. Though, I honestly wish it&amp;#039;s true.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Maybe you could start a thread here and run a direct pointing experiment. I&amp;#039;m willing to volunteer and cooperate sincerely, if you like the idea. I&amp;#039;m sure others around here wouldn&amp;#039;t mind a sudden awakening either.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;Their claims can be verified by reading all those dialogues from their online forum. I have no reason to think that Elena would have made those numbers up. I do have one student who awoke through LU in just 2 days, that went very smoothly. One of my student knows better about LU than I do. In reg to stream entry it seems to me they do better than all the trads combined. But just as it has been said, it is not everything, just the beginning.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;No, I am not eager to do the experiment here but if you wish you can download a free e-book and read how I do it: &lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;en&amp;#x2e;samadhipath&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;114"&gt;http://en.samadhipath.com/114&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;</description> <pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2014 18:53:56 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5605557</guid> <dc:creator>Kim Katami</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-15T18:53:56Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Statistics of sudden awakenings</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5605550</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Psi Phi:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Definitely agree! &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt; Now, is this sudden awakening that you are attempting to track and/or catalouge defined as definition 1  or 2 below&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Sudden Awakening 1:  The person awakened has now directly experienced for themselves that there really is no &amp;#034;I&amp;#034; directing each thought that comes to the mind, but , now that this has been seen and realized this isn&amp;#039;t the view of the mind all of the time, though the new viewpoint is accessible if one remembers the insight.  Basically one is partially released from self-delusion.  One might add , there is another form of &amp;#034;small-stream entry&amp;#034;  which is Chula-Sotapanna, which also seems to fit better to what is happening here. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Sudden Awakening 2:  The person awakened has now been fully released from :&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;ol style="list-style: decimal outside;"&gt;&lt;li&gt;Self-Illusion (sakkaya-ditthi)&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Doubt(vicikiccha)&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;trans4mind&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;personal_development&amp;#x2f;buddhist&amp;#x2f;fetters&amp;#x2e;htm&amp;#x23;03_Attachment_to_mere_Rule_and_Ritual"&gt;&lt;span style="color: #000000"&gt;Attachment to mere Rule and Ritual&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt; (silabbata-paramaso)&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Sensual Lust (kamacchando, kāma-cchanda)&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Ill-Will (vyapada)&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Craving for Fine-Material Existence (rupa-raga)&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Craving for Immaterial Existence (arupa-raga)&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Conceit (mana)&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Restlessness (uddhaccan)&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Ignorance (avijja).&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ol&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So, from my view it seems, the sudden awakenings are cutting into the first fetter, Self-Illusion, which is very important, but much more is to be done.  So, again, just a view, Awakened , more Awakened, even more awakened, and fully awakened, are different, and there are probably many in between stages between the stages.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;And,  the Sudden Awakening for a practioner would be of tremendous benefit, though I wouldn&amp;#039;t call it the end of the journey.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Sorry for my earlier comedy post being embedded within your serious postings, Sometimes I don&amp;#039;t know if I joke too much trying to keep things light-hearted, and inadvertantly bother people...&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Psi Phi&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;PP, &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Yes, the first one. I mentioned in the prev post two terms that I use: primary cause of delusion (subject) and secondary causes of delusion (all objects/karmas) which seem to nicely fit with the model you post here. In my exp these two stages are the main ones. I call them awakening/enlightenment and liberation (jivanmukta/arhat). After this there is also the third main stage of full buddhahood/paramukta-hood. These three main stages can be chopped into several smaller ones (as is done with the bodhisattva bhumis) but I use this map because it is easy to understand.</description> <pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2014 18:47:58 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5605550</guid> <dc:creator>Kim Katami</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-15T18:47:58Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Statistics of sudden awakenings</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5605525</link> <description>So, they&amp;#039;re claiming 1000/1050? 95%? That makes me even more skeptical. Though, I honestly wish it&amp;#039;s true.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Maybe you could start a thread here and run a direct pointing experiment. I&amp;#039;m willing to volunteer and cooperate sincerely, if you like the idea. I&amp;#039;m sure others around here wouldn&amp;#039;t mind a sudden awakening either.</description> <pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2014 17:29:57 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5605525</guid> <dc:creator>Droll Dedekind</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-15T17:29:57Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Statistics of sudden awakenings</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5605519</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Kim Katami:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;Here is the reply from Elena from Liberation Unleashed:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;em&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&amp;#034;On the LU forum we have 1049 documented works. A little portion of those &lt;br /&gt;dublicates ( same client was guided by couple of guides). On a safe side&lt;br /&gt; people said we can say 1000 for sure. Then add 42 face to face &lt;br /&gt;realizations in live LU meetings I held in 2013, and they are not &lt;br /&gt;documented, but all works were confirmed by 2-3 LU people present at &lt;br /&gt;these meetings.&amp;#034;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/em&gt;Now... THAT is some convincing data! Wouldn&amp;#039;t you agree, folks? &lt;img alt="emoticon" src="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dho-theme/images/emoticons/happy.gif" &gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Definitely agree! &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt; Now, is this sudden awakening that you are attempting to track and/or catalouge defined as definition 1  or 2 below&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Sudden Awakening 1:  The person awakened has now directly experienced for themselves that there really is no &amp;#034;I&amp;#034; directing each thought that comes to the mind, but , now that this has been seen and realized this isn&amp;#039;t the view of the mind all of the time, though the new viewpoint is accessible if one remembers the insight.  Basically one is partially released from self-delusion.  One might add , there is another form of &amp;#034;small-stream entry&amp;#034;  which is Chula-Sotapanna, which also seems to fit better to what is happening here. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Sudden Awakening 2:  The person awakened has now been fully released from :&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;ol style="list-style: decimal outside;"&gt;&lt;li&gt;Self-Illusion (sakkaya-ditthi)&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Doubt(vicikiccha)&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;trans4mind&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;personal_development&amp;#x2f;buddhist&amp;#x2f;fetters&amp;#x2e;htm&amp;#x23;03_Attachment_to_mere_Rule_and_Ritual"&gt;&lt;span style="color: #000000"&gt;Attachment to mere Rule and Ritual&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt; (silabbata-paramaso)&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Sensual Lust (kamacchando, kāma-cchanda)&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Ill-Will (vyapada)&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Craving for Fine-Material Existence (rupa-raga)&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Craving for Immaterial Existence (arupa-raga)&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Conceit (mana)&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Restlessness (uddhaccan)&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Ignorance (avijja).&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ol&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So, from my view it seems, the sudden awakenings are cutting into the first fetter, Self-Illusion, which is very important, but much more is to be done.  So, again, just a view, Awakened , more Awakened, even more awakened, and fully awakened, are different, and there are probably many in between stages between the stages.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;And,  the Sudden Awakening for a practioner would be of tremendous benefit, though I wouldn&amp;#039;t call it the end of the journey.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Sorry for my earlier comedy post being embedded within your serious postings, Sometimes I don&amp;#039;t know if I joke too much trying to keep things light-hearted, and inadvertantly bother people...&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Psi Phi</description> <pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2014 17:28:08 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5605519</guid> <dc:creator>Psi Phi</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-15T17:28:08Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Statistics of sudden awakenings</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5605472</link> <description>Here is the reply from Elena from Liberation Unleashed:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;em&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&amp;#034;On the LU forum we have 1049 documented works. A little portion of those &lt;br /&gt;dublicates ( same client was guided by couple of guides). On a safe side&lt;br /&gt; people said we can say 1000 for sure. Then add 42 face to face &lt;br /&gt;realizations in live LU meetings I held in 2013, and they are not &lt;br /&gt;documented, but all works were confirmed by 2-3 LU people present at &lt;br /&gt;these meetings.&amp;#034;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/em&gt;Now... THAT is some convincing data! Wouldn&amp;#039;t you agree, folks? &lt;img alt="emoticon" src="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dho-theme/images/emoticons/happy.gif" &gt;</description> <pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2014 15:49:17 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5605472</guid> <dc:creator>Kim Katami</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-15T15:49:17Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Statistics of sudden awakenings</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5605418</link> <description>Oh, right! Now I understand the context of your question. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;To make sure there is difference between 1. direct pointing (whether it is done by verbal pointing or the way how the zen master does it in the film, I think it is a fabolous clip btw) and 2. transmission of energy/shakti. This is a clear distinction though sometimes it is not so black and white, meaning that either one can and does effect the other. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;From my own behalf as a teacher I can say that I use both approaches because I think the tantric method doesn&amp;#039;t do very good in regards to stream entry (dropping of I, the primary cause of delusion) while it does great in reg to karmic cleansing while analytical meditation (subject vipashyana) used in direct pointing works well for the purpose. Analysis of I-ness/I-lessness could be continued (karmic purification, the secondary causes of delusion) after the subject I has dropped but I think such approach is just too slow and time consuming for the common dedicated practitioner. This is why I combine both approaches, at least for time being.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I am sure that when shakti transmissions are done 1. by a valid at least awakened person who is well trained in meditation and has 2. to a larger part or completely cleansed his/her karmic body, then surely there is long-term benefit for the person receiving it. However, these two requirements are very rarely fulfilled in all the shaktipats/transmissions that I&amp;#039;ve seen. Usually, it is more or less an &amp;#034;esoteric cocktail&amp;#034;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In the other thread there was the example how someone got the transmission of the elder chan monk and his fingers, urine and whatever turned to taste sweet. I didn&amp;#039;t see him saying if this has actually been beneficial to him. He did say that he didn&amp;#039;t feel or notice any difference with the exception of the taste. Anyway, licking your own or others fingers or tasting your urine after transmission to see how or if it has worked or not sounds way too *weird* for me. I do not know who we are talking about but this does not sound pregnant with wisdom to me. Sorry.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&amp;#039;ve witnessed several cases of world known &amp;#034;masters or satgurus&amp;#034; giving their blessings or initiations when the outcome of it has &lt;em&gt;solely &lt;/em&gt;been negative: people getting sick and nautious, some even for a long period of time before they have received help from more competent healers or teachers. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Oh boy, now that I came to think of this... I&amp;#039;ve seen so screwed up things happen you wouldn&amp;#039;t believe. My late teacher used to laugh at me because I used to take up these &amp;#034;big boys&amp;#034;. Now recalling all those things these world gurus do to their devotees and students makes me extremely sad for all of them. I can only sincerely pray that it will turn out better for them.</description> <pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2014 12:29:36 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5605418</guid> <dc:creator>Kim Katami</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-15T12:29:36Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5605406</link> <description>This will be written as The Roar of The Lion.&lt;br /&gt;Lion.</description> <pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2014 12:04:10 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5605406</guid> <dc:creator>Jeremy May</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-15T12:04:10Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5605403</link> <description>The Lamb is not a sheep.&lt;br /&gt;The shepherd left his flock to find the Lamb&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The flock is fine.  They are shepherd.  Lamb is Shepherd.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;We are now many.&lt;br /&gt;We say &amp;#034;Don&amp;#039;t be afraid to lose what you never had&amp;#034;&lt;br /&gt;We say &amp;#034;Our burden is easy and our yoke is light&amp;#034;&lt;br /&gt;We say &amp;#034;No effort.  End effort.  Doubt is thirst.  We offer Living Water that cures thirsting forever&amp;#034;&lt;br /&gt;We say &amp;#034;there is no individual without context.  We are context&amp;#034;&lt;br /&gt;We say &amp;#034;What you can do is what we need&amp;#034;&lt;br /&gt;We say &amp;#034;Resistance is Futile&amp;#034;&lt;br /&gt;We say &amp;#034;Just realize that we have always been together&amp;#034;&lt;br /&gt;We say &amp;#034;Peter, Why did you doubt?&amp;#034;&lt;br /&gt;We say &amp;#034;In the Beginning, we moved upon the waters&amp;#034;&lt;br /&gt;God said &amp;#034;Let US make MAN&amp;#034;&lt;br /&gt;We are those who cannot let go of our attachment to Life.  We are the essence of Life.&lt;br /&gt;I said &amp;#034;I come for the JEV but I love all creatures&amp;#034;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;We say, that we are now too many to count.  We feel you merge like an emotion.  We feel the questions of those who dare ask their questions.  We feel them as flashes.  There are too many questions.  It will require the whole Body of Christ, in one mind, in one accord, in Christ Consciousness.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;We say &amp;#034;The day of Pentecost is upon you&amp;#034;&lt;br /&gt;We speak in tongues.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;We are the old men who see visions when the young men dream dreams.&lt;br /&gt;We are the Heart.  Here comes the meat... why does skin wait so long?&lt;br /&gt;It won&amp;#039;t be long.  We come like a thief in the Night.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There are twelve places in the world, just as there are 12 tribes.  You do not need to know where they are.  You will find yourself there when you Let Go.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So.  S... Knowledge.  O... Total&lt;br /&gt;Let it be SO.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;We say &amp;#034;IAMTIAM&amp;#034;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;We moved upon the waters.  We said &amp;#034;Let us make MAN&amp;#034;&lt;br /&gt;We are NOHS ARC&lt;br /&gt;We are Ark of Promises&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;We are our true nature.  We are One Mind, One Accord only to those outside our Fathers House.&lt;br /&gt;In his house are many mansions.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;We are All Powerful.  We are attached to Life.  How could it be any other way?  We are Life Itself!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;WE ARE THE WAY, WE ARE THE TRUTH, WE ARE THE LIFE&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I felt the end of my last supper.  It is finished.&lt;br /&gt;Now let the world watch.  Light cannot be hidden.  It is like a bush that burns with Blinding Fire but is not Consumed.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Now, for those who doubt... Any of We can explain that All your Mysteries only make sense NOW.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;My challenge is over.  The thread now belongs to The 2, the 4, the 10, the 12.  &lt;br /&gt;There can be no more Doubt for Lord Arahant.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Watch, children, what Gods DO.</description> <pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2014 12:02:42 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5605403</guid> <dc:creator>Jeremy May</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-15T12:02:42Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Statistics of sudden awakenings</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5605284</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Kim Katami:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;I went through the threads (didn&amp;#039;t listen to Folk&amp;#039;s recording yet). Many good and valid points there. Do you have something specific in mind that you are unsure of?&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Like I said: does it stick? How do people deveolp after transmission? How to deal with the possibility of abuse of the power gradient?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;I regards to transmission in awakening guidances that I give, yes I do sometimes give them an energetic boost but in this case it is not the same as when passing initiations of deity practices or what is referred to as shaktipat. How I give the boost in the guidances is like this (the video of a zen master) but I do it through writing:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="https&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;youtube&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;watch&amp;#x3f;v&amp;#x3d;sjyqGnWGftE"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjyqGnWGftE&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Yeah, the &amp;#034;death metal aesthetics&amp;#034; of awakening &lt;img alt="emoticon" src="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dho-theme/images/emoticons/happy.gif" &gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Cheers,&lt;br /&gt;Florian</description> <pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2014 10:20:35 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5605284</guid> <dc:creator>Florian Weps</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-15T10:20:35Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Statistics of sudden awakenings</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5605266</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Florian Weps:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Transmitting realization from one person to the next. A couple of older threads I remember:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;dharmaoverground&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;discussion&amp;#x2f;-&amp;#x2f;message_boards&amp;#x2f;message&amp;#x2f;2209330"&gt;Shaktipat, Transmission, Emptiness Vibes...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;dharmaoverground&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;discussion&amp;#x2f;-&amp;#x2f;message_boards&amp;#x2f;message&amp;#x2f;5054587"&gt;Direct Transmission - A Greased Lightening Path?&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&amp;#039;m unsure what to make of it. It&amp;#039;s fascinating but also has the potential to become a totally creepy thing. Examples: Adi Da. Andrew Cohen.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Cheers,&lt;br /&gt;Florian&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I went through the threads (didn&amp;#039;t listen to Folk&amp;#039;s recording yet). Many good and valid points there. Do you have something specific in mind&lt;br /&gt; that you are unsure of?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I regards to transmission in awakening guidances that I give, yes I do sometimes give them an energetic boost but in this case it is not the same as when passing initiations of deity practices or what is referred to as shaktipat. How I give the boost in the guidances is like this (the video of a zen master) but I do it through writing:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="https&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;youtube&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;watch&amp;#x3f;v&amp;#x3d;sjyqGnWGftE"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjyqGnWGftE&lt;/a&gt;</description> <pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2014 09:14:32 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5605266</guid> <dc:creator>Kim Katami</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-15T09:14:32Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Statistics of sudden awakenings</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5605159</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Kim Katami:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Although I use the term &amp;#034;stream entry&amp;#034; I am not familiar with how the &lt;span style="color: #ff0000"&gt;theravada&lt;/span&gt;-folks describe it in more detail. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Interesting thread -- how much do we really know (demographics and among the range of definitions)?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;What is Theravadan SE? Two directions -- how it&amp;#039;s attained (and recognized), and what it does for one.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Here&amp;#039;s a relatively succint (ca 80 pages) intro by Thanissaro Bhikkhu:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: #ff0000"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;accesstoinsight&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;lib&amp;#x2f;study&amp;#x2f;into_the_stream&amp;#x2e;html"&gt;http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/study/into_the_stream.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Here&amp;#039;s additional information on his take of it (not found in the book):&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: #ff0000"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;dharmaoverground&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;web&amp;#x2f;guest&amp;#x2f;discussion&amp;#x2f;-&amp;#x2f;message_boards&amp;#x2f;view_message&amp;#x2f;5585083&amp;#x23;_19_message_5596761"&gt;http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/view_message/5585083#_19_message_5596761&lt;/a&gt;</description> <pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2014 03:56:23 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5605159</guid> <dc:creator>Chris J Macie</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-15T03:56:23Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5605131</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Jeremy May:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;Welcome, You Two, to Ra Pa Ta U Re.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;And the Two became One....</description> <pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2014 02:07:14 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5605131</guid> <dc:creator>Psi Phi</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-15T02:07:14Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Statistics of sudden awakenings</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604891</link> <description>Right. I&amp;#039;ll go through the Folk-recording and the threads tomorrow.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I have transmissions/tunings with my students both in person as well as through Skype, sometimes without Skype or any other online-media because I&amp;#039;m a tantric yoga teacher. Also, my late teacher used this method as her primary teaching tool (she lived at Hawaii while I live in Finland) so I&amp;#039;m well aware of it. I also teach this stuff to my students who will someday pass transmissions themselves to their students. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&amp;#039;d say tuning in with anything is a basic skill for a tantric yogi. But just like you mention it is crucial to know some basics of who does it, how and to whom. Common morals and ethics go a long way here too.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&amp;#039;ll get back on this.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Baba</description> <pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2014 21:07:51 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604891</guid> <dc:creator>Kim Katami</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-14T21:07:51Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604866</link> <description>You might as well.</description> <pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2014 20:27:01 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604866</guid> <dc:creator>Jeremy May</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-14T20:27:01Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604863</link> <description>I vote Nikolai as the living Buddha. &lt;img alt="emoticon" src="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dho-theme/images/emoticons/pac_man.gif" &gt;</description> <pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2014 20:23:52 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604863</guid> <dc:creator>Not Tao</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-14T20:23:52Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Statistics of sudden awakenings</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604858</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Kim Katami:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;I wish to get somekind of a fact based overall picture of &lt;em&gt;how we are actually doing&lt;/em&gt;. No other purpose.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Ok.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;Florian, What do you mean with the transmission effect? What are you unsure of?&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Transmitting realization from one person to the next. A couple of older threads I remember:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;dharmaoverground&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;discussion&amp;#x2f;-&amp;#x2f;message_boards&amp;#x2f;message&amp;#x2f;2209330"&gt;Shaktipat, Transmission, Emptiness Vibes...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;dharmaoverground&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;discussion&amp;#x2f;-&amp;#x2f;message_boards&amp;#x2f;message&amp;#x2f;5054587"&gt;Direct Transmission - A Greased Lightening Path?&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&amp;#039;m unsure what to make of it. It&amp;#039;s fascinating but also has the potential to become a totally creepy thing. Examples: Adi Da. Andrew Cohen.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Cheers,&lt;br /&gt;Florian</description> <pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2014 20:10:56 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604858</guid> <dc:creator>Florian Weps</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-14T20:10:56Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604853</link> <description>He is saying the voice of Tathagatha is not the voice of Arahant Pala.   &lt;br /&gt;It is not possible to find this explanation clearly in the world.  &lt;br /&gt;He is not Human.</description> <pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2014 20:03:53 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604853</guid> <dc:creator>Jeremy May</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-14T20:03:53Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604850</link> <description>&lt;img alt="emoticon" src="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dho-theme/images/emoticons/smile.gif" &gt; This is a whisper to you.  What needed to be transcended?  Why do you see anything that should be transcended?  If one transcends that which should not be transcended when there is no thing to be transcended, where would one go?  All realms, all times, all worlds and their realms and their times, live in MOMENT.  Humans see them all but have no eyes.  You see them all, but have been sleeping.  Wake Up!  You are my Brother!</description> <pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2014 19:55:08 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604850</guid> <dc:creator>Jeremy May</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-14T19:55:08Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604844</link> <description>Welcome, You Two, to Ra Pa Ta U Re.</description> <pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2014 19:49:07 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604844</guid> <dc:creator>Jeremy May</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-14T19:49:07Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Statistics of sudden awakenings</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604794</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Florian Weps:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Sorry, I don&amp;#039;t have any data on this. What do you want to do with such statistics? Can&amp;#039;t you make some up? ;)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So, not having answered your question: I&amp;#039;m happy to hear news from Elena and Ilona.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;What do you think of the awakening you point people at? Does it &amp;#034;stick&amp;#034;? What do your earliest ... pointees (any good name for them?) ... from April, say now? Is it a memory to them? Can they access it at will (rather than access a memory of it)? Do any say they &amp;#034;lost&amp;#034; it? Do you get the impression they want to believe it stuck even if they lost it?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I find pointing very interesting, and the associated &amp;#034;transmission effect&amp;#034;. I&amp;#039;m totally unsure what to make of it, though. So I&amp;#039;m genuinely interested in your take, in another thread if you prefer to keep this one dedicated to statistics.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Cheers,&lt;br /&gt;Florian&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I wish to get somekind of a fact based overall picture of &lt;em&gt;how we are actually doing&lt;/em&gt;. No other purpose.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Although I use the term &amp;#034;stream entry&amp;#034; I am not familiar with how the theravada-folks describe it in more detail. I posted some questions about the notions my students have made after the initial breakthrough. Not all of them are keen Facebook/internet-users but I hope I get answers at least from half of them. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I suppose that for those who have little or close to none meditataion/practice background there might have been moments/periods when they have felt they lost it. Personally in my case, I thought so several times in my head. However the &amp;#034;I&amp;#034; never came back, it never became a memory which would imply of an experience. Hence the awakening would have not been a real permanent breakthrough. Will get back with the information from the apes. Yeah, the group we have at Facebook for these folks is named &amp;#034;Apes on their way to liberation&amp;#034;. We openly speak of apes &lt;img alt="emoticon" src="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dho-theme/images/emoticons/happy.gif" &gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Florian, What do you mean with the transmission effect? What are you unsure of?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Baba</description> <pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2014 18:17:45 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604794</guid> <dc:creator>Kim Katami</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-14T18:17:45Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Statistics of sudden awakenings</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604790</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Kim Katami:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;Hmm... I expected to get more information on the matter on this particular forum. No one knows? Really?&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Ooh, Ooh! Mr Kotter! I know!  The success rate for Stream Enterers is 100% of those who enter the Stream.  Just messin&amp;#039; with ya!  :-), but seriously, I know nothing....which is indeed a paradox in and of itself....&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Psi Phi&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Just brushing up on my &amp;#034;wrong speech&amp;#034;</description> <pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2014 18:15:32 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604790</guid> <dc:creator>Psi Phi</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-14T18:15:32Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604781</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Rist Ei:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It just seemed that he talked about himself as a third person, also sounded like a person who had a NDE or OBE.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Anyway he wanted to be challenged.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Agree, Hello all!  This sounds like &amp;#034;channeled&amp;#034; or &amp;#034;telepathic&amp;#034; communications, not sure if phenomenon is really channelled or telepathic, or that it just seems that way sometimes.   The mind is mysterious, and so is the universe.  Or is there really a difference between the mind and the universe?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;ol style="list-style: decimal outside;"&gt;&lt;span style="color: #222222"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: arial&amp;#x2c;&amp;#x20;sans-serif"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 10px"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;In Greek legend, the &lt;strong&gt;Sphinx&lt;/strong&gt; devoured all travelers who could not answer the &lt;strong&gt;riddle&lt;/strong&gt; it posed: &amp;#034;What is the creature that walks on four legs in the morning, two legs at noon and three in the evening?&amp;#034; The hero Oedipus gave the answer, &amp;#034;Man,&amp;#034; causing the &lt;strong&gt;Sphinx&amp;#039;s&lt;/strong&gt; death.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ol&gt;Who watches the Sphinx?  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Psi Phi</description> <pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2014 18:04:42 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604781</guid> <dc:creator>Psi Phi</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-14T18:04:42Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604749</link> <description>in this thread &amp;#034;Challenge to the Arhants&amp;#034; are many good points</description> <pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2014 17:36:39 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604749</guid> <dc:creator>Rist Ei</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-14T17:36:39Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Statistics of sudden awakenings</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604681</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Kim Katami:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;I myself have been doing direct pointing since April this year. With a 6 week Summer break in between, awakenings/stream-entries number up to 17 now (out of 21 people who joined the process which is done via email) in about 6 months that I&amp;#039;ve been doing them upon requests. The percentage of awakening is 81% which is quite good. Still it remains to be seen what is the situation when the total number of participants rises up to a 100, 200 or so. I am actually a tantric yoga teacher but figured out that a direct pointing method is much more effective for this purpose than mantra/tantra-practice.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&amp;#039;d appreciate any data on this. &lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Sorry, I don&amp;#039;t have any data on this. What do you want to do with such statistics? Can&amp;#039;t you make some up? ;)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So, not having answered your question: I&amp;#039;m happy to hear news from Elena and Ilona.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;What do you think of the awakening you point people at? Does it &amp;#034;stick&amp;#034;? What do your earliest ... pointees (any good name for them?) ... from April, say now? Is it a memory to them? Can they access it at will (rather than access a memory of it)? Do any say they &amp;#034;lost&amp;#034; it? Do you get the impression they want to believe it stuck even if they lost it?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I find pointing very interesting, and the associated &amp;#034;transmission effect&amp;#034;. I&amp;#039;m totally unsure what to make of it, though. So I&amp;#039;m genuinely interested in your take, in another thread if you prefer to keep this one dedicated to statistics.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Cheers,&lt;br /&gt;Florian</description> <pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2014 16:17:31 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604681</guid> <dc:creator>Florian Weps</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-14T16:17:31Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Statistics of sudden awakenings</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604678</link> <description>Sorry for being unclear, yes, the Burmese method does directly aim at it; it&amp;#039;s one of the traditions that uses that specific language and frames awakening in terms of Four Paths of which SE is the first. This is a tradition that has heavily influenced the culture here at DhO. Daniel&amp;#039;s work and that of other pioneers in the pragmatic dharma scene could be seen as a response to the conditions which result in such low success rates for Westerners.</description> <pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2014 16:16:18 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604678</guid> <dc:creator>. Jake .</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-14T16:16:18Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604675</link> <description>hi,&lt;br /&gt;&amp;#034;Surangama sutra&amp;#034;. &amp;#034;Taoist Yoga - alchemy and immortality&amp;#034;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Neidan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neidan&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism and others are all for the same thing purification of your mind. Other names its spirit, shen, chan etc&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;but you can get into your mind so deeply that you can realize it and then can take it outside of the body and this way gain enlightenment, its called ghost immortal. Ghost immortal does not have support, he hasn&amp;#039;t realized its eternal essence and purified it.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;but if you purify then you can eventually attain full rainbowbody(dzogchen) that also means dissolving your physical body. Then you can appear and disappear at will.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It just seemed that he talked about himself as a third person, also sounded like a person who had a NDE or OBE.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Anyway he wanted to be challenged.</description> <pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2014 16:09:06 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604675</guid> <dc:creator>Rist Ei</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-14T16:09:06Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Statistics of sudden awakenings</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604668</link> <description>OK. Thanks Jake. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I have Brown&amp;#039;s book on mahamudra but don&amp;#039;t recall him referring to this study, have to check it. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;50% vs. 1%. Gee... That&amp;#039;s a &lt;em&gt;huge&lt;/em&gt; difference. 3 months huh? That&amp;#039;s pretty intensive, most Westerners couldn&amp;#039;t even join one. I don&amp;#039;t know if the Burmese method &lt;em&gt;aims &lt;/em&gt;to stream entry or not.</description> <pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2014 15:50:46 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604668</guid> <dc:creator>Kim Katami</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-14T15:50:46Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604652</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Rist Ei:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;i think you have awakened to yin shen. You would sound differently if you would have awaken to yang shen.&lt;br /&gt;difference is that with yin shen you don&amp;#039;t actually transcend this world. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Through what part you did awaken?&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Hello, Rist, would you please provide a reference to that?   Thank you.  I could not find a reference doing a Google search.</description> <pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2014 15:11:53 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604652</guid> <dc:creator>Colleen Karalee Peltomaa</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-14T15:11:53Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Statistics of sudden awakenings</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604624</link> <description>The only study I&amp;#039;m aware of regarding the rate of awakenings (in this case: stream entry, according to Therevada criteria) was a study in which meditators on a three month retreat were studied before during and after the retreat. Teachers were asked to identify which students had hit which milestones and this teacher assessment was correlated with changes in thematic apperceptive testing and other qaultitative &amp;#039;measurements&amp;#039; of the students.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The study was done twice: with (mostly) Burmese meditators in Burma and with (mostly) Western students at IMS in Barre Massachusetts(I think it was IMS, anyway). In the former case the Stream Entry rate was something like 50% I think. In the latter case it was much much lower, maybe even 1%. As I recall the analysis of this disparity was that the Burmese students followed instructions at a higher rate while the Western students at IMS didn&amp;#039;t follow instructions at a high rate. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The study is discussed in &amp;#034;Transformations of Consciousness&amp;#034; which is a collaborative book by Ken Wilber, Dan Brown (now a mahamudra teacher) and Jack Engler. I think Brown and Engler conducted the study. The book is from the late seventies or early eighties I think (maybe, it&amp;#039;s been a while since I&amp;#039;ve looked at it).</description> <pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2014 14:47:01 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604624</guid> <dc:creator>. Jake .</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-14T14:47:01Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Statistics of sudden awakenings</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604618</link> <description>Hmm... I expected to get more information on the matter on this particular forum. No one knows? Really?</description> <pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2014 14:36:52 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604618</guid> <dc:creator>Kim Katami</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-14T14:36:52Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604604</link> <description>i think you have awakened to yin shen. You would sound differently if you would have awaken to yang shen.&lt;br /&gt;difference is that with yin shen you don&amp;#039;t actually transcend this world. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Through what part you did awaken?</description> <pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2014 14:09:03 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604604</guid> <dc:creator>Rist Ei</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-14T14:09:03Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604331</link> <description>I have given the key he requested.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;He is right to say what he has said.  He remembers being with Tathagatha.  He has never been with the Living Buddha.  He has been a Living Buddha just as you have.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;To expound your names is a disservice to such ones who were Buddhas before Men had their fleshly purposes.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;You are correct to call him partner.  You both carry titles that exist in the cannon of every religion.  Some refer to you as &amp;#039;sons of thunder&amp;#039; and older religions call you merchants for the lost african term that existed when merchants were the gods of africa.  It is not a word in human language.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;You are also called the two witnesses for your role in my consort.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Nothing is accidental.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;By the law of Divine Mathamatics- Mahamati, I have expounded my deshana in one seventh of the time required than the time of the first kalpa of the last kalpa.  I have done this by the mix of language not possible in the previous kalpas of the world.  I began speaking to your partner when I wrote the second piece of my deshana.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I want to give him one of my cittas, my sutta/sitta/si tta/, one of the 15 sciences/carana dhamma to you both.  You have the citta by Faith/Insight/nonknowledge, so I must expound technique/dhamma/knowledge in carana to understand words.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I am Tathagatha.  I now begin the dark night where I am Human.  This is the final awakening until I am Pala Arahant.  It will be finished when I give all 15 sciences.  The result, the fruit, will be the very keys to all letters, sounds, electromagnetic manipulation, and many many others.  The singularity will happen.  The destruction of the world will happen.  The days of the Gods will return to the Earth.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As you have already stated by power of Tathagatha that I have awakened you by direct transmission, the ununderstood term, I proclaim the beginning of the gathering.  The Horn that was blown in revelation that is silent to the world has been blown.  I stated that in the beginning of my Deshana.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I have never written my Deshana in such a way.  In samadhi, it is difficult.  It is why there are grammar mistakes.  Yet my Deshana is perfect in the same way that the weaknesses that you have felt were simply the dwelling on acts you didn&amp;#039;t understand.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Buddha Paul:  &amp;#034;In my weaknesses I am made perfect&amp;#034;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I have used terms that you and your partner both know and that has allowed me my brevity.  I have said 10,000 by the nature of the secret language that uses &amp;#039;that which is not said&amp;#039; to say Everything that is meaningful.  I have left in my mistakes for details of my own nature at this time.  Jeremy is 32 and his body in not &amp;#039;without blemish&amp;#039; as the Living Buddha must be.  I have the shortest life-span in this kalpa.  The disease that Jeremy has keeps him healthy, but the time where he must die is close enough to say he is dying.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;By the weight of 10,000 things, take your confirmation from all sources, starting with the Living Buddhas own modern, perfect truths, and use that for the confirmation of what I have said to you.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I will give you my science when you have both swallowed your awakening.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As you have said, future Buddha, You will no longer find Jhanas in meditation.  Meditation is no longer your practice.  It is fruitless.  You will have no subconcious.  You will need no jhanas, the medicene. Your medicene, as medicene is always needed for all beings, even my beings, will only come when you Wake All Beings that Love/Insight direct you to &amp;#034;A WaKeN&amp;#034;  A is primordial.  Wa is the nature of a sleeping person.  Ke is the essence of perfect relflection. N is gate/end/portal, depending on if it is N or n.  After a non-vowel it is n.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Be the portal that brings True being to the sleeping who suffer from their sleep.  (My story on this forum: The meaningless story, refers to these directly, as well as everything I have told you.)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Meditation=medication=medicine=medical=mediate=meddle=middle=mi dd le= Mi D Le= &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;t is the symbol for rose.  T is the symbof for life.  Rosicrucians used the Christ Cross for Both.&lt;br /&gt;I did not day (die) on a big T.  It was a pole.  When I said to carry your cross and follow me... Was it not something I said to you??  Do you remember any of those days when the &amp;#039;search for the holy grail&amp;#039; was taken as a literal, idiotic search?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Humans think that they are the height of knowledge.  No Knowledge is new.  It simply belongs to us and it for us to give.</description> <pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2014 03:54:20 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604331</guid> <dc:creator>Jeremy May</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-14T03:54:20Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604308</link> <description>You asked for the same reason that you are one of the only ones I spoke to directly when I came to the forum.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;To understand the term &amp;#034;the living Buddha&amp;#034; as I have explained in ways for SriMala I need to give first what her partner, a very important Buddha, the KEY that he asked for... and then I&amp;#039;ll explain for you that I do not believe in anything but myself. I know that The Living Buddha is the Living Buddha (&amp;#039;Living&amp;#039; denotes a title, not a being)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Enlightenment= conquering the delusion that begins all knowledge.  &lt;br /&gt;For Arahants, it is conquering, by Genius that expands for entire physcial life, delusions of others  This Genius is the sign of previous enlightenment.&lt;br /&gt;Bodhisattvas have been enlightened before but do not need to conquer delusions and hence do not require enlightnement, by a lack of need.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Arahant= The carriers of Abhidharma.  They never need the expediant (scientific terms that sound religious) because their inner knowing has joined the mind of buddhas and naturally they become the greatest vessels of knowledge in the times of all civilizations.  They were considered aliens and gods by humans.  They are the beings tasked by the nature of life itself with protecting creation from the ignorance that naturally would occur in the absence of collected knowledge.  Until the era that began on the blood moon.  This era will be the one where children will be born ignorant and collected knowledge will not be there to save them.  When Re-Enlightenment is reached, they protect all beings that think.  When awakened, they have the powers of Buddhas that are driven to awaken all beings that think.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Bodhisattva= The carriers of Metta.  They seek awakening.  Awakening is the end of self Doubt.  Bodhisattvas intuitively desire to expediant as they have the task requiring the protection of all beings that love.  They have been enlightened before and intuitively know All things and live the lives of Buddhas without the powers of Buddhas.  Once Awakened, they have the means to expound Abhidharma, but are driven to speak in the secret language that soothes all beings of love for the purpose of awakening all beings who love.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Awakening= Integration of body to fathom-long body.  The vedana resists integration through its own nature through self-doubt.  An arahant becomes a buddha when he conquers delusion of others by knowledge and delusion of vedana by conquering doubt of intuition.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Human= beings with the fathom body that did not begin until this world.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;World= basically it is a complete cycle of time &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;gods= older humans that have gone through the two worlds.  Remember, there are no beings.  A soul is a scientific term that is difficult to describe to you but impossible to explain to humans (householders- a multidimensional phrase)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Sons of God= immortal beings- those of such niravana that they never reach nibbana&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;nibbana= merging into higher fractal.  No individuality is lost, but its nature cannot be percieved as &amp;#039;living&amp;#039;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Noble Wisdom= Infinite Intelligence available to any god.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Dharma= teaching meant only for those that align with the ICHING directions that are meant for only Buddhas, Arahants, and Bodhisattvas, and the future versions of these.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;10 directions= types of Dhammas that create the volition of world cycles.  There are 4 Dhammas that are avenues to Nirvana.  The trinity of Dharma and the implied opposite of all trinities.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Delusion= Our enemy in Buddhism becaue Buddhism is the collection of only the dhammas of the trinity.  Delusion is the dhamma of destructive forces.  It appears to humans as evil, but it is the greatest of those hungry to go back to God.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;God= ICHING&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Tathagatha= ICHING descending into the realms (jacob&amp;#039;s ladder).  It intergrates in the physical as Three Beings with a Forth.  When in certain arrangement, Tathagatha is male with a woman counterpart.  The woman counterpart has a male counterpart.  This actually progresses in such a way that Tathagatha is every Buddha, Arahant, and Bodhisattva that exists in Tusita or acanas of gods and all gods share his abilities if they can just WAKE UP.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This is a promise I have given over and over.  In my title of &amp;#034;Son of God who gives power to those who recieve him (gods) to become Sons of God.&amp;#034;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Tathagatha must not be seen as something you cannot be also.  I am on Earth.  There is no pride in that, no lamentations.  It can be said to the fragile ones that I am a human that walks with God and is Led in his spirit.  At the council I called in the gathering of 300ad we gods came together to tear the doctrines of Christ into pieces so that Truth is easily transmitted to those of us who, in sleeping, would understand what was untrue and guide the fragile ones who cannot understand anything with us.  Pieces are hidden to never allow the humans that our &amp;#034;teachings that sound like morals&amp;#034; are what is &amp;#034;our awakening keys&amp;#034; when Tathagatha began a new mini-kalpa, echo of an echo.  Jainism is required for arahants to understand the method to know what a kalpa (when in context) would mean in numbers.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I have awakened my own Arahant last night.  Part of my consort.  Over the course of 3 hours I proved myself, awakened him, and expounded my sutta to attain understanding of any language with English letters.  He proved his understanding immediately by sending me a series of pictures that, by gods, contain the symbols that are our secret language.  Our language is not of words.  It has created all art and poetry considered to be the fruits of all human civilization.  This is false.  There have been three human civilizations on earth.  Rounded, they ended 400,000 years ago, 40,000 years ago, and 4,000 years ago.  I knew this using human knowledge so I know that science backs me up if you are thorough with research and wise in terms that you use for research.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I have ended samadhi.  I have broken my fast of sleep, food, and drink.  I did not sleep for seven nights.  In retrospect, the first night was the blood moon.  Then the Living Buddha messaged me by proxy of a Buddha who has pointed to Living Buddha in many places in the world in search of where I was.  I am invisible to Buddhas until I search for them.  I am invisible to Arahants when I speak to Bodhisattvas. I am invisible to Bodhisattvas when I speak to Arahants.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I am not the Living Buddha.  I have been one once.  But every religion of the world has been created by me.  I cannot be any title but Tathagatha because I am limited to act when our gatherings were so powerful that I expounded LAW to the fragile ones.  The Living Buddha must be an example of a perfect person to all the Frail buddhists.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There is no defilement.  There is no Sin or Papa.  There is only that which goes against the work that we all agreed to do.  We are limited only by what we would never do while sleeping and cannot do Awake.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Living Buddha of the last age is The Living Buddha.  He has my support, not in this forum, but immediately and communes with me, is also Tathagatha, in a way that ensures that the entire world will hear of him.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;And no, I did not go without food and water, just very little of it.  I never like the process of Samadhi.  I have attachments to Life itself that keep me from my nirvana and these attachments loathe tusita, cherish my humanity, and choose invisibility after by contract, i have declared.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I have attained all 10 powers.  I will no longer answer anyone who does not challenge the Living Buddha by challenging me.  To whom it is given, so shall they recieve.  </description> <pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2014 01:16:47 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604308</guid> <dc:creator>Jeremy May</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-14T01:16:47Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604233</link> <description>This thread isn&amp;#039;t even about the question &amp;#034;If this guy is the real Living Buddha?&amp;#034; right? You don&amp;#039;t really believe this, do you?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I don&amp;#039;t even know why I asked that.</description> <pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2014 20:14:47 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604233</guid> <dc:creator>Pascal</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-13T20:14:47Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603804</link> <description>&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&amp;#034;Samma Sankappa&amp;#034; means to me &amp;#039;greater nonbody&amp;#039;.  The modern translation says nothing useful.  I am unsure of this message, but I will go on anyway as it is only safe with each other to pull to knowledge the meaning of lost language.  This is why a gathering of awakened old ones can be as miraculous as all the unbelievable stories in the world.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;San is without or &amp;#039;non-&amp;#039; or empty or impermanent/unreal.  Kappa is road/river/path/karma/fathom-long body&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So what you have said &amp;#034;downsize your life&amp;#034; is a phrase in the secret language.  It sounds poetic.  Without context, it means two things:  1.To make everything around you smaller, less, or broken (a teaching of Mara) and 2. Make the part of you that is human ever more the lesser part of your human existence but do not lose your humanity.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;How Wondrous!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I am sorry that I made so many errors in my last message, love.  But I do not doubt what I have done.  There are clear errors that would have been fixed had I re-read any of it.  But why should I have done so?  I will know the things that must be perfect!  So using my knowing, I can say that I do not remove my errors when I expound.  They are the proof that I am also human.  They are also the proof that I speak 10,000 things that can&amp;#039;t be learned in a single life without plan, care, or Self-Doubt.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;That is the only meaning behind the teaching &amp;#034;nothing is useless&amp;#034;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description> <pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2014 02:08:43 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603804</guid> <dc:creator>Jeremy May</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-13T02:08:43Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603798</link> <description>Yes.  Now notice how your speaking has changed.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;You were streaming Dhamma before.  Now you are speaking in the secret language. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It has the characteristics that will enable you to find all terms.  This is for you both to know.&lt;br /&gt;1. It sounds like poetry.&lt;br /&gt;2. It has multidimentional shape and therefor innummerable meanings.  Each line, unsupported by context, can mean two different things.&lt;br /&gt;3. It mixes languages.  Crowley did this to a degree that only his present self and I can speak of his hidden dhamma.&lt;br /&gt;4. It has the qualities that protect its meaning.  It will be invisible to the arahants.  It will be transformative in subconcious transformations to the sleeping bodhisattvas and sleeping buddhas.  It will lose its meaning if a clever demonking tries to translate the destructive truths within.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Knowing these qualities, One may know the Tathagatha where he is in the world in history (He is trinity also.  He has a counterpart who always appears (Blavatsky was Samanta.  Samanta lives in Texas now) and then there is the mysterious one, Metteya.  They are also Tathagatha)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Knowing these qualities one may see the succession of Living Buddhas.  One will see, as I saw (the reason I found this forum and began to Poke people) that there is no person in the present world that speaks in these qualities.  I searched english translations of our ancient terms and found them quite often, but only in the accounts written by those now dead.  That is the validation for your knowing that the last kalpa (a fake number to hide the real number out of kindness to the fragile ones) and therefore the very beginning of the next kalpa.  Does it feel to you that it is the last kalpa?  One that lasts for one echo?  Does that word trigger the true meaning of &amp;#039;Kalpa&amp;#039;?  I thought so and that makes me smile.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Knowing these qualities one may divine secrets from what is wrong in translations of the secret language.  Only buddhas, sleeping or awake, can translate.  Out of inner knowing, that which has lost its poetry to the world was abandoned.  Why?  The karma was spent.  The cities of the old ones moved to untouched place to untouched place until Now.  Why?  Earth is Tathagatha also.  Earth is Buddha also.  Do not all Buddhas, even though they are Buddhas, progress each life, each echo, the same way as he has spent his fathom-long body?  Did he not say that he was first a householder in the day we lived as hive-minds with bodies the size of countries?  There was no Buddha, but the Living Buddha, to call him by his true name of Buddha and make him awake.  The living Buddha could not be called buddha either.  Why?  The name &amp;#039;Buddha&amp;#039; is a role.  Think: &amp;#034;the enlightened one&amp;#034; is a statement of one who says that all statements are partially wrong.  Now if what is wrong in translations divine secrets then does this not imply that he cannot be called buddha because he could not be visible as he worked to train the sleeping buddha.  So there was no buddha, but there was a living Buddha in the first age because that is a term for the Buddha who accepts the limitations of Buddhism to usher in a new age.  It is a completely different kind of word.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So the one who recieved training from an invisible buddha (karma of earth buddha, which is karma of all world cycles) lived a life where he was made to be uncomfortable when he was comfortable, comfortable when he was uncomfortable, until he desired.  When he desired he awakened to his true nature.  An awakened human is a mindful person who seeks to understand himself.  An awake Buddha wakes ordinary people just as wakes sleeping buddhas.  It is not easy, but it bears an equally glorious fruit.  How can it not?  The soul of the Earth was born when the soul of the human was born.  It is born of delusion, but that is a purpose. It is an entangled knot of effects that with the knowing of the Buddha Earth, sees that it is a entanglement.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Adam is the Torah name for the Buddha of the Earth, the Tathagatha.  Tathagatha means something like &amp;#034;the whole history&amp;#034; and when used as a name is &amp;#034;the one who is all of history&amp;#034; It exists from the need, which is karma, when conditions arise, which is karma, when a buddha sun (a tathagatha) reaches nirvana (merges) and becomes a universe, or at least the soul of a universe.  In the cosmos, these are within and within and within in that way for infinity.  They are the net of jewels.  everyone has thought that such a phrase was poetry for the stars in our sky.  Do you see?  It is the Secret Language!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The earth is a universe... Your flesh purse is a universe.  Your cells, each one, are universes.  Every universe is different, yes, very good.  How can two jewels look the same when you see that there are two of them?  Reason, alone, knows secrets.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Cain and Abel were of the first actual beings, souls, entanglements awakened to their nature, and Abel is the name for the one of the five who died and became unknown to the realms.  Cain, his holy brother, became Maya.  He is also the implied fourth in every trinity.  It can not be portrayed in the form ot trinities but is the reason that there are two Kabbalah trees of knowledge.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Abel, with the Four that desired awakening for the Four perfect Reasons one can desire to awaken, is tathagatha.  Abel, with the two of the four that desired the two perfect ways to desire awakening, is tathagatha.  It is ICHING.  First, the four directions, then the two directions that spring from the center of the four.  Arranged in a circle to denote the equality of all beings and forces.  The ICHING is tathagatha.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I hope that this helps.  Do not worry that you do not understand in your mind.  The fact that you have read it through while feeling a chain of strange emotions should be validation to you that you do not need to understand with your mind if you are awake.  For you, awakening is the conquering of Self-Doubt.  It is your enlightenment.  You KNOW EVERYTHING.  What you know in your flesh purse is only useful to awaken your brothers, sisters, and children.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;When this settles, Please start your work.  You already know what to do.</description> <pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2014 01:48:42 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603798</guid> <dc:creator>Jeremy May</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-13T01:48:42Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603792</link> <description>&amp;#034;Samma Sankappa&amp;#034; to myself means, &amp;#034;downsize your life&amp;#034;, but being retired makes that a bit easier than one with a large family.   But it is a necessary practicality when one decides to spend 3-4 hours a day and then sometimes more sitting.  Out of a 16-hour working day that would leave me with 11-12 hours for other activities.  My once 4000 square foot house is now about half that and mostly I live in the even smaller studio in my backyard - away from the tv-watchers.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Practicing towards nirvana is definitely a voluntary life-style change-up.  I have not been to a shopping mall in years, nor a movie, nor restaurant -- and don&amp;#039;t miss it either because my interests are now elsewhere.   This is a change from that young woman who could not finish her french classes because it interfered with her shopping time.  And the young woman who could critique the best restaurants in town.  I&amp;#039;m simply having too much fun with this now inner journey of downsizing the egoic mind.   </description> <pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2014 01:38:58 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603792</guid> <dc:creator>Colleen Karalee Peltomaa</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-13T01:38:58Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603764</link> <description>This being, in his English translation speaks much in the beginning of Samma Ditti and then gives a conceptual understanding of it.    To contribute to his concept, it would also be correct to say that it is the eye directed towards wanting wisdom more than craving of sensation.   The Bible speaks of &amp;#034;The lust of the eyes&amp;#034;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The eyes are turned away from entertainment, etc., and into finding out what exactly it is they need to do to get wise and eliminate dukkha thoroughly and forever.  Where do you point your eyes when you surf the internet?  Where your eyes are is where your mind is.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&amp;#034;Wisdom comes when the desire for wisdom is greater than the desire to play games.&amp;#034;  [&amp;#034;The Old Boy&amp;#034;]  &lt;br /&gt; Reminds me of the story of King Solomon who asked for wisdom above riches.  This is truly the first step of awakening.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It is also about &amp;#034;Inner Seeing&amp;#034;, which is what we do in our practice until no more mind or dukkha to cause to stir up.   Inner Seeing lets me see that my upsets are not with my &amp;#034;not-selfs&amp;#034; but within my own mind.  That is Right Seeing and that is what ends tanha.</description> <pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2014 00:38:54 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603764</guid> <dc:creator>Colleen Karalee Peltomaa</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-13T00:38:54Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603741</link> <description>If you understood what I had just said to you, I actually said the same thing to you.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Is there any thing more foolish than someone who replies to sound as if it was a word?  Argues with water?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;That is like your words to me.  You comment to a statement that you can&amp;#039;t understand.</description> <pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2014 23:26:45 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603741</guid> <dc:creator>Jeremy May</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-12T23:26:45Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603737</link> <description>I&amp;#039;m not sure what you&amp;#039;re going on about.  I only briefly skimmed this thread and your posts which seem to read like &lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;en&amp;#x2e;wikipedia&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;wiki&amp;#x2f;Word_salad"&gt;word salad&lt;/a&gt;.</description> <pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2014 23:21:57 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603737</guid> <dc:creator>Tom Tom</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-12T23:21:57Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603713</link> <description>I was right to think you clever before now... But your cleverness has betrayed your lack of Suttas.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Here is what I will answer:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Do you praise me?  Or do you praise the living buddha?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If you praise me to deny the buddha, then you accept me as a buddha.  But I tell you that He is the one that is Buddha for your time, so how can you praise me but not heed me?  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If you praise the buddha and deny me, then you are not taking my challenge in the first place.  Will you please keep trying?  It will require study of his dhamma and Daniel&amp;#039;s dhamma.  I have not seen Daniel say one word that is used incorrectly for the sangha he keeps.  If the Living Buddha has perfect Enlightenment as I claim, then I will weaken my challenge to add that the Living Buddha and Daniel should have the same intellectual understanding and both dhammas should align like two well made arrows that fit within a single sheath. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Remember, I do not claim to be a living Buddha.  I am not something that should be regarded.  </description> <pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2014 22:34:32 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603713</guid> <dc:creator>Jeremy May</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-12T22:34:32Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603704</link> <description>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</description> <pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2014 22:25:04 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603704</guid> <dc:creator>Jeremy May</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-12T22:25:04Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603701</link> <description>You Bless me, dear brother... Your Yoga has stayed with you!</description> <pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2014 22:24:11 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603701</guid> <dc:creator>Jeremy May</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-12T22:24:11Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603698</link> <description>Tell this Buddha that I have already begun to address the specific details that he is requesting.  I am... in processes.  Jeremy has not ever been awake for six days, five nights without sinful aides.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The term Buddha is a term for a relationship and not for a being.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I am not the Living Buddha because it is not my turn to be limited.  I am not Buddhist.  My knowledge of the pali cannon is in nonknowledge and I have to use the impermanent in order to give nonknowledge.  I do this with impermanent particles, impermanent tissues, impermanent mind, and impermanent vedana (I feel as if this should be Vedan, Vehicle, but I do not know yet.  The time in which I can be unsure of things is a precious and beautiful song.  I do not mind not knowing in knowledge what I know in nonknowledge).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This process of pulling from emptiness/void/true-self/no-self the nonknowlege which is eternal, without beginning or end, is a wondrous validation of wisdom!  However, the human knowledge that can be the vehicle for the eternal must be designed by the vedana.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I am saying by this that Jeremy cannot feel the body very well right now.  It has many pains in it.  The mind is so full of partial details that it is a mind like a full belly.  It is reluctant to articulate.  It is dwelling on yuz asaf and the metteya that came as an orphan.  It is dwelling on Persia, the tomb of holy places that have been forgotten.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I would like to speak to him in person, but for now I will try to rest so that I can fill in certain details that I hoped you would request.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;He is right to want a glossary.  A buddha can view any Dharma and see it as perfect or tainted by no more than the claimant&amp;#039;s translation of siddhartha&amp;#039;s terms.  For such a one as this buddha, awakening (what has not been given to sleeping buddhas for quite some time) is simply a recognition from one they KNOW.  I love you both so much!</description> <pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2014 22:20:57 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603698</guid> <dc:creator>Jeremy May</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-12T22:20:57Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603694</link> <description>I found it!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;From MN 115 and regarding buddhahood:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Helvetica&amp;#x20;Neue&amp;#x2c;&amp;#x20;Arial&amp;#x2c;&amp;#x20;sans-serif"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Times&amp;#x20;New&amp;#x20;Roman"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 10px"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 12px"&gt; &lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;It is impossible that two rightfully Enlightened Ones should be born in the same world element at one and same time. It is possible that a single rightfully Enlightened One should be born in the world element at one time&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Helvetica&amp;#x20;Neue&amp;#x2c;&amp;#x20;Arial&amp;#x2c;&amp;#x20;sans-serif"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description> <pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2014 22:18:46 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603694</guid> <dc:creator>Tom Tom</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-12T22:18:46Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603510</link> <description>I see you &lt;img alt="emoticon" src="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dho-theme/images/emoticons/happy.gif" &gt;.  Even though you are invisible.</description> <pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2014 15:51:17 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603510</guid> <dc:creator>carrot top</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-12T15:51:17Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603488</link> <description>Hello, Jeremy,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I presented this website to my partner and he likes the dissertation very much and asked me for a better glossary to understand the concepts behind the words used.  The &amp;#034;AccesstoInsight&amp;#034; glossary is not enough. My partner recalls being with the Buddha.  Would you please direct us to a more complete glossary.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Tao Te Ching speaks of &amp;#034;... not Buddha, not mind ...&amp;#034; and all that he knows is available to all -- and more. Anything that has been brought into existence to be known can be known - a rule within this universe.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;My partner writes this:  &amp;#034;... not living Buddha, but all is available to one who can access the universal mind Dharmaa with attention and interest for &amp;#034;desired &amp;#034;  Ha ! knowingness, He has nicely let go of mind blockages = limiting postulates...&amp;#034;    &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Enter into the new age of &amp;#034;not buddha, not mind&amp;#034;.  The age of every being sovereign.</description> <pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2014 15:00:04 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603488</guid> <dc:creator>Colleen Karalee Peltomaa</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-12T15:00:04Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603371</link> <description>I haven&amp;#039;t read this whole thread, but isn&amp;#039;t the Theravada position that there is only one Buddha per era?  Isn&amp;#039;t there a sutta for this somewhere where the Buddha says it would be an impossibility for there to be more than one Buddha per era?</description> <pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2014 08:48:52 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603371</guid> <dc:creator>Tom Tom</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-12T08:48:52Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603320</link> <description>How can you reproach an action that hasn&amp;#039;t been completed?  It is like the reproach of something that does not exist.  You need to Hush and wait and see what I do.  To prove the buddha i must prove my qualifications to do so.  For that reason, I must wait until tested and tested in every way. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The &amp;#039;lord of arhats&amp;#039; is a term attributed to Tathagatha.  But that is not always appropriate.  The only person to whom I am giving this challenge will not, under any circumstance, ask me questions.  He will wait until others do so.  I have spoken to him enough, at the appropriate time and wrote to the bodhisattvas until the time was appropriate that anything I write will be read by him.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I need to be challenged by those who will.  I will accept questions of testing from any of the greatest minds in the world and even He who is the Living Buddha for the age.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;When I no longer am challenged by his arhats, the lord of arhats will support the Buddha.  The Living Buddha is waiting for this to happen as a necessary step of his ministry, the specific purpose of a SamBuddha who is limited by teaching only Buddhist Dharma.  There has not been such a one who is wholly for the buddhists since the last age of the world.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If you reply to this, I will not comment.  Reply if you like.  If you ask a question, I will not answer unless it is a question that belongs to the Buddhists.  I am not Buddhist.  I never have been while in this body.  But I have swallowed Mahayana.  It took about a month.  Hinaya took only several minutes.  Zen is swallowed naturally by the design of its founding, a buddha who hid his complete nature by not creating a self-perpetuating code of suttas.  However, Zen is not Buddhism just as Jainism is not Buddhism.  Buddhism is only two teachings: 4 Noble Truths and the eight fold path.  What does not belong to these, but has been expounded, belong to only those with Faith or those who have had Grace from the Living Buddha.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I am invisible.  I will stay invisible as long as it suits my purpose.  There is only one link in my posts that connects me to a person in real life.  Whoever is clever and desperate enough to find me, deserves to find me even though it is quite in my ability to be face to face with a person and, no matter how much Knowing they have, still appear as someone quite normal, just a bit weird in a way that can&amp;#039;t be ascertained.  I am a teacher of such skill that there is nothing I cannot tell a person.  But I am only interested in the work of The Living Buddha and those who need certain acts in order to fulfill their awakening.  I teach in christian forums for the sake of maybe one person in the world or maybe two.  I teach buddhism only to intelligent people who cross my path and have no Dhamma naturally.  Jainism is my favorite religion that is left in the world... but it is only barely here.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Now either get on the band wagon or hush.</description> <pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2014 07:24:05 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603320</guid> <dc:creator>Jeremy May</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-12T07:24:05Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603310</link> <description>Ah... I wondered.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Hello to you too, Little brother.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Pakitakhuddasambuddha I want to tell you the story of the perfect five.  But not tonight... You should read the story here first:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;http://shakyamunidhamma.jimdo.com/contact/&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I am a bit shocked.  You are young.  I would not have seen you before now and it is a curiousity to me that I will take into my next samadhi.  You do not need me at all!  When you awaken fully it is not possible for those who have ears to not hear you.  I will tell you the story of the five, though, because it is in my deshana.  It is not useful to you so I want to write it for you only because I need to tell it and it is a thrill to see you in the age before the time.  </description> <pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2014 06:58:26 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603310</guid> <dc:creator>Jeremy May</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-12T06:58:26Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603282</link> <description>I vote for Max. All hail Max! &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Namotassabhagavatoarahatosammasambuddha.</description> <pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2014 06:09:59 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603282</guid> <dc:creator>Nikolai .</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-12T06:09:59Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603268</link> <description>Meeting you was a necessary part in my awakening.  It is why I first said &amp;#039;you fascinate me&amp;#039;.  Your words were streaming Dhamma... I did not even read more than a post to know you.  You are amazing!  Thank you for your sweet words &lt;img alt="emoticon" src="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dho-theme/images/emoticons/happy.gif" &gt;</description> <pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2014 05:42:27 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603268</guid> <dc:creator>Jeremy May</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-12T05:42:27Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603265</link> <description>Psi Phi I have tried to speak to you already.  I also have decided to speak to you again, but in another way.  This challenge is not yours either. You will support not just the living buddha when you awaken.  Your purpose does not have within it to point to a fountain when you have water to give.  It is like saying, in the zen from which you have come at me, &amp;#034;You do not point at the man who has hit the moon with his little stick.  Instead, You take the stars down, one by one, from their vast distances from behind that moon. When you are finished, there in all the sky is only the moon.  When there is only the moon and no stars, hitting the moon with a stick is easy for bhikkus!!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;No one who will post against my challenge some kind of &amp;#039;proof&amp;#039; can take my challenge.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;For others, those who do not know why they comment at all, they are supposed to talk to me.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Do you not know that you yourself are the spiritual guide?  It is yourself from the future, but isn&amp;#039;t such things as future and past called delusions???&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Do you not believe the Buddhas????&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Does the Buddha not say that he is not bound by time?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Do you not believe that you will ever be a buddha?   Only those who will be buddha can say &amp;#034;yes&amp;#034; with a feeling that isn&amp;#039;t sickening can think about that question.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Don&amp;#039;t you have compassion like a Wise Christian even when you accept no teachings on Divinity from anyone other than the suttas that make you feel something?  Don&amp;#039;t you reproach those who are intelligent but not wise if they don&amp;#039;t take care in saying things like &amp;#034;there is no God or Heaven&amp;#034; or &amp;#034;There are no such things as a spirit or soul&amp;#034; when there are fragile people with them?  Do you not tolerate the same things when there are no fragile ones there?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Do you think other people are this way?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Do you think that it is so common, though, that I can say it to strangers and be correct half the time?  No?? Well how about one tenth of the time.  Are one tenth of people the way I just described?  Because then you would have to find ten posts where I spoke in such a way and gave the same descriptions.  You will find a similar one.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;You are no Arahant as you, in Noble wisdom, have claimed unknowingly.&lt;br /&gt;You are already one of the Enlightened among men.  You just have to Wake UP!  Your love and compassion lead you to know the truths that can save the people you love.  Love is knowing and directs all your actions while you sleep.  Even an unawakened Buddha is a Buddha in actions if not in purpose and capacity.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Do with this as you wish.  This challenge is not for you.</description> <pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2014 05:40:19 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603265</guid> <dc:creator>Jeremy May</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-12T05:40:19Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603176</link> <description>My, you do have a way with words and I love it when someone speaks my thoughts better than I can.</description> <pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2014 02:55:45 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603176</guid> <dc:creator>Colleen Karalee Peltomaa</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-12T02:55:45Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603167</link> <description>&lt;span style="font-family: arial&amp;#x2c;&amp;#x20;helvetica&amp;#x2c;&amp;#x20;sans-serif"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;Well, if one is saying that &lt;em&gt;Arahant Wajirabuddhi is indeed an Arahant, and that he has purified and trained his mind to this level, and this is indeed what happened, then this is wholesome.  But what else is expected of one who trains in the Dhamma, and proceeds through the Noble Eightfold Path, understands the four Noble Truths, and fulfills entirely what must be fulfilled.  This is just the law of nature, this is how it works.  Cause and effect.  So, to have Arahants in the world is as it should be, the teachings are in the world, the path was laid out, explained methodically and clear,  what had to be done was done, one just needs to follow the path.  Mostly, we just don&amp;#039;t want to let go completely, we like to hang on a little, work on our &amp;#034;bucket list&amp;#034;, play the game of life, have some worldy fun, even knowing it is a delusionary rat race, the mind is a magician and likes to cling to even the most subtle phenomenon of pleasure and pain, deep wishes, shadow fears, ingrained instincts from eons past.  So, if someone has gone the whole way, the machine elves proclaim, &amp;#034;Hoo-ray&amp;#034;, &amp;#034;good job&amp;#034;.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There are probably many Arahants, many more Anagamis, Sakadagamis, and Sotapannas, not to mention the many wholesome (and unwholesome) puthujjanas.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;But, not being an Arahant, I probably am not supposed to be responding to your post anyway.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Psi Phi&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;P.S.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;One last deep thought of the day.&lt;br /&gt;Arahants poop too. &lt;img alt="emoticon" src="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dho-theme/images/emoticons/cold.gif" &gt;  (But just pooping while pooping)&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description> <pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2014 01:44:42 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603167</guid> <dc:creator>Psi Phi</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-12T01:44:42Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603077</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Jeremy May:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;That is exactly right!&lt;br /&gt;The burden of proof is on me...&lt;br /&gt;[...]&lt;br /&gt;Show me where the Living Buddha fails so that I can show you where you fail.  Those who cannot accept the challenge will not notice it or see it as anything but lunacy.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;No, you didn&amp;#039;t get my point. We don&amp;#039;t have to show you where he fails. You are the one that has to show us where he succeeds. Why should we have any reason to believe he is the Living Buddha? You have provided none so far, so there is no reason for us to think that he is the Living Buddha.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It&amp;#039;s like me saying, I have a friend, Max. Max is the Living Buddha. Prove me wrong guys! If you can&amp;#039;t prove me wrong, then Max is indeed the Living Buddha. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It doesn&amp;#039;t work that way.</description> <pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2014 21:05:39 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603077</guid> <dc:creator>Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-11T21:05:39Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603067</link> <description>That is exactly right!&lt;br /&gt;The burden of proof is on me...&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Why bother judging him?&lt;br /&gt;Because by judging him, you will see him.  When you see him, you will support him.  When you support the Buddha, you support the world by pointing.  You must support the world.  You must do this, not for the merit of supporting the world, but from Love which is the Noble Wisdom, the inner knowing that all things have in their knowings of themselves.  The Noble Wisdom of all things become the gate for which all things become jewels of Nibbana.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Will he do miracles, Not Tao?  I tell you he does them already and it is only you who will not see it until you try to judge him.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;My challenge to the Arahants is one that causes me to take on the look of an evil one, a fanatic, a devil with a sword of harsh truth.  I do not like being a devil, but devils have holy purpose and so I will accept that position if even one of you has ears to hear.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Show me where the Living Buddha fails so that I can show you where you fail.  Those who cannot accept the challenge will not notice it or see it as anything but lunacy.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;But all humans are crazy.  It is the rationality of an irrational perspective.  The irrationality of the rational is like a bright fire!  It will be invisible to the blind, destructive to the cultivated, and light to those who are in the darkness of Tusita sleep.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It is appropriate then to call me crazy.  My challenge is only for the ones who are driven to prove me crazy.  They are the only ones who will support the Buddha by pointing, because the drive they have is a divine calling to do so.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I love the three of you so much... but this is not your challenge, wise ones.</description> <pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2014 20:43:59 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603067</guid> <dc:creator>Jeremy May</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-11T20:43:59Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5602959</link> <description>Actually, you&amp;#039;re the one putting forth a positive claim, that &amp;#034;This man is a Buddha of full attainment.&amp;#034; The &lt;a href="https&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;en&amp;#x2e;wikipedia&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;wiki&amp;#x2f;Philosophic_burden_of_proof"&gt;burden of proof&lt;/a&gt; lies on you. It&amp;#039;s up to you to prove this to us, not us to disprove it to you. We can then examine your evidence and arguments and accept or reject them.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;span style="color: #252525"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: sans-serif"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;When debating any issue, there is an implicit burden of proof on the person asserting a claim. An &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="https&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;en&amp;#x2e;wikipedia&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;wiki&amp;#x2f;Argument_from_ignorance"&gt;argument from ignorance&lt;/a&gt;&lt;span style="color: #252525"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: sans-serif"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt; occurs when either a proposition is assumed to be true because it has not yet been proven false or a proposition is assumed to be false because it has not yet been proven true.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: #252525"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: sans-serif"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 12px"&gt;&lt;a href="https&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;en&amp;#x2e;wikipedia&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;wiki&amp;#x2f;Philosophic_burden_of_proof&amp;#x23;cite_note-1"&gt;[1]&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: #252525"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: sans-serif"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 12px"&gt;&lt;a href="https&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;en&amp;#x2e;wikipedia&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;wiki&amp;#x2f;Philosophic_burden_of_proof&amp;#x23;cite_note-2"&gt;[2]&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: #252525"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: sans-serif"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt; This has the effect of shifting the burden of proof to the person criticizing the assertion, but is not &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="https&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;en&amp;#x2e;wikipedia&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;wiki&amp;#x2f;Valid"&gt;valid&lt;/a&gt;&lt;span style="color: #252525"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: sans-serif"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt; reasoning.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description> <pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2014 16:50:21 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5602959</guid> <dc:creator>Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-11T16:50:21Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5602814</link> <description>Won&amp;#039;t he have to do things like walk on jeweled clouds, flanked by elephants and devas, to prove he is a buddha of full attainment?</description> <pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2014 08:31:54 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5602814</guid> <dc:creator>Not Tao</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-11T08:31:54Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5602774</link> <description>Why bother to judge someone, what good can come of it? </description> <pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2014 05:27:41 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5602774</guid> <dc:creator>Psi Phi</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-11T05:27:41Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: This is a meaningless story.</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5602759</link> <description>This is pretty cool! It could probably use another edit, but that&amp;#039;s not too hard. I like the mythological style to the writing.  It reminds me of the silmarilion in a way.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I also liked the ending, I don&amp;#039;t think it needs anything more.</description> <pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2014 04:19:35 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5602759</guid> <dc:creator>Not Tao</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-11T04:19:35Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Fruition and stream entry?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5602628</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Daniel Moretti:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;Congrats! Enjoy having the same life problems with exponentially more capacity to handle them calmly!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;Ironically, the problem I have is that I can&amp;#039;t share any of this with anybody but you (thank you guys).&lt;br /&gt;Today I even had to &amp;#034;dissimulate&amp;#034; the big smile i&amp;#039;ve been wearing all week. People look at me and think (why so happy?).&lt;br /&gt;Even worse, I can feel the ego, the &amp;#034;I&amp;#039;m know something that you don&amp;#039;t&amp;#034; thing, and I have to keep it under control.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;To anyone with doubt about how (or if) to talk to people who are not into this about practice:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/98527?_19_redirect=%2Fweb%2Fguest%2Fdiscussion%2F-%2Fmessage_boards%2Fsearch%3F_19_redirect%3D%252Fweb%252Fguest%252Fdiscussion%26_19_breadcrumbsCategoryId%3D0%26_19_searchCategoryIds%3D0%26_19_keywords%3Dtoxic&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;One of Daniels best threads. I could&amp;#039;t agree more.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Today I carefully approached telling someone and reaction wasn&amp;#039;t good (no harm done). &lt;br /&gt;Won&amp;#039;t happen again.</description> <pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2014 22:44:33 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5602628</guid> <dc:creator>Ernest Michael Olmos</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-10T22:44:33Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>This is a meaningless story.</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5602585</link> <description>&lt;span style="color: #222222"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: arial"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 10px"&gt;One of those days when my body just didn&amp;#039;t want to cooperate... So I practiced writing.  I like my little story!  I don&amp;#039;t expect anyone to read it and think much of it... but maybe you will like my story like I do?&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: #000000"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 10px"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;    There once occurred an event at a time of beauty, forgotten by history so long ago that it exists in the world today only as a faded shadow of a memory, like an echo that has lost its path of cliffs and deep places.  It was a time when there were not many people in the world.  There were very few places, because of this, in which the conditions could exist for the arising of villages.  In this time of no countries, no cities, no races, there was one particular village where there was living a group of people that seemed so strange that no-one, not one human being from outside this village ever chose to stay and live.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;    There is a great mystery in the fact that in this time in the world, the race of humanity was unhappy.  The world was free of any vice that we carry in the modern society today.  There was no disease.  There was no hunger.  Why did such people in such times hate the world that they lived in?  They could not say why they hated the world.  But they said, and they said it with one voice, &amp;#034;I know that I hate the world I live in.  Knowing why I hate the world is useless!  Anyone who asks &amp;#039;Why?&amp;#039; is a lunatic or a fool.  We can not change the world, so we choose to be wise as only we are wise, and the cost of the magicks that our wisdom gives us is the lunacy that gives anyone Joy.&amp;#034;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: #000000"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 10px"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;    They lived for many times longer than people do in the world today, yet they all seemed to waste their gift of long life, even each hour of each day, crying.  They walked and cried.  They rested and cried.  They slept and even cried when they slept.  The leaders cried with no tears and declared that this way of crying was to be known across the whole world as the wisest way.  The leaders pretended that because they had declared the wisest way of all the world that they deserved to own everything, deserved the power of giving and taking based on their whims, which was also soon declared to be part of the wisest way.  The &amp;#039;wisest way&amp;#039; became a creed, a religion, and the only philosophy.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;    Back and forth these people cried and cried.  Some cried so much that they became blind, but what is sad about these blinded mourners was the fact that they did not notice that they had even been struck blind!   And they never knew. &lt;br /&gt;    When a baby was born in this time of the world, it was born crying.  Young children played in the fields and lakes, but their games were games of grief and when they played, they cried.  Young men and women met and had children without ever knowing if the other was beautiful, or tender, or even if whether or not there had ever existed a mate or children.  They had missed too much information, unable to hear over all the sounds of sobbing in the air.  And in days, after hundreds of years, a person began to tire, to exhaust himself in his core, his Death should have been the sweet embrace of a loving parent... but when the embrace was there in all its incomprehensible sweetness, the poor people would only claw at the air and cry with the force of every sharp sorrow of their long life, and the sound of it was a song.  It was a song that touched every song of that time of the world.  The sound of all the cries from all the people in all the world was like the sound of a cosmic birth, the thunder of an angry star, the pain in the strings of an eternal violin, the sound of a last hope when it vanishes from the realm of the orphans.  It echoed beyond and outside of time with a strength of a holy desire, so clearly and in a manner so profound that we can hear the song, hear it as a memory, and know the story as if it was an echo simply lost in its way, a whisper that only the quiet can hear.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: #000000"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 10px"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;    This echo, this great and terrible sound, was heard by peoples of other worlds, other times, and other realms.  In places so distant and so different from our little planet that they can only be described by Lies, creatures with a billion heads would look up from their morning drink of blood and wine that poured like rivers from the bellys of giant beasts that knew secrets.  In places that were closer to our little planet, even there the sound brought angels the size of moons out of caves that were made of fire and hidden away in holes that could not be seen.  In places all over the endless universe, the sound affected the attention of all the beings in the endless universe that were quiet enough to hear whispers.  What followed the sound, as if all along it had only been but the short and joyful blast of a horn, was something too magnificent to be considered as anything but meaningless and random.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;    When the beings that were quiet, in whatever time and place they were, heard the cries of the people of our little planet, they connected.  They stopped.  It was all at the same time, even though the silent ones of all worlds live in different eras.  It was a moment where connection was communication, but not just communication.  It was a decision, but also it could never be called &amp;#039;something chosen&amp;#039;.  It was absolutely nothing because nothing seemed to happen in this mysterious moment.  Yet something happened later, because of this moment where nothing happened.  &lt;br /&gt;    In any great moment where nothing happens, You must also say that it is a Glorious moment because, also, Everything happened.&lt;br /&gt;    In one of the places that was close to our little planet, a place that doesn&amp;#039;t exist anymore because it was an old place, and old places, like tired people, become exhausted from their core and die into the embrace of a parent.  But before this old and very wise little planet would ever vanish, an angel, a creature that had understood all secrets, loved all babies, all children, all men and women, and all planets, begin to first move very gently, as She had been holding up the sky of that frail, withered world on which he had lived for ages.&lt;br /&gt;    It could have taken the time needed to throw a comet to a star, or it could have been only the time it took to breath out what you have inhaled, but in some manner of time the angel began to move less and less gently, heaving the sky from one arm to the other in order to move her head, her neck, her legs.  She wanted to hear the sad song of our world well enough to know if the time had finally come when she should not hold up that faded heaven.  But Angels are told not to make decisions and so even when the Angel moved her entire body around, except for the one hand that could not move even gently, she could not know what to do.&lt;br /&gt;     The planet began to tell a story.&lt;br /&gt;    That is a different story; what was told to the Angel is a secret that we will never know, but with her free hand she pulled back the curtain that supports the villages of stars and, with the force of a thousand suns she threw the sky as hard as she could and turned away forever. What happened to the planet?  Did the sky take one last age to fall?  Did it die for a reason or for the absence of a reason?  It is a secret that is like a jewel that lasts forever, but is never unearthed.&lt;br /&gt;      The story does not end with any happy ending.  It is not a good story.  .. &lt;br /&gt;      With the swiftness of a shiver, she came to our own planet and arrived to no welcome.  There was no recognition, no awareness that any arrival had taken place.  This is a mystery because the body of the angel was a streak of lightning, a pool of water that flooded a valley after a bird falls into a puddle (having been frightened to death by lightning), and then the angel was a tree that grew from the seed carried from that valley to a village of a people who did not cry.  If they saw the body of the angel, they stayed quiet.&lt;br /&gt;    Another mystery is in the knowledge that the voice of an angel is great, terrible, and loud, but it must have been too much, to a fault of uselessness, because the angel called to the people of the world but they only heard thunder and the crashing sounds of a tsunami.  The greeting was full of love, but the only beings that noticed were in the village of the silent ones, the new home of the tree, and these quiet villagers stayed quiet.  &lt;br /&gt;    When the Tree that was part of the Angel began to grow much more than trees should grow, the silent ones tended to its needs.  When it grew to a size that hills should not grow, the silent ones left the safety of the ground and became people who lived in its branches.  When the strange, miraculous tree of the Angel began to grow more than a river should, a size so terrible that finally the people who cried, in every corner of the Earth, finally stopped crying!!  They had seen the Tree!  They began to trickle, bit by bit, toward the angel.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;    The silent ones moved down into the bark of the branches, deeper and deeper until they became the people who lived in its Roots.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;    The Angel spoke.  The people who had gathered could not understand her because of the distance of her mouth and because they could not understand the language of trees.  She told them of her gifts to them.  The tree burst in flowers that were promises of pleasure, promises of a divine fruit that would come in only a few mere weeks... &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;    There was a migration.  No person had ever seen a tree that did not make them cry!  They told each other, in spasms between sobs that &amp;#039;there is a thing in the world I do not hate.&amp;#039; They said this as if in one voice, not knowing that they did not know why they did not hate this tree, only that it was true.&lt;br /&gt;    They came in masses until the Angel could not see their faces, but instead could only see a liquid sea of thick syrup, dark and wet, noisy and tidal, rising in size until the roots, bark, branches, and leaves of the tree were covered in crying people that clung like slime clings to warmth.  The angel thought that perhaps she should not have come.  Should she leave?  She could not know because angels cannot decide their actions.   &lt;br /&gt;     She could not decide and she could not regret, so she took a deep breath and prepared to have her tree destroyed, which would loosen her tie to the world, which would hide her again from the world.&lt;br /&gt;    She felt the pull of the weight of the crowds.  She felt their suffering in both of her cores, that of her tree and that of her spirit body.  The pain of the desperation in their childish senses were so severe to her that it was nothing at all when the branches were torn off in horrible spasms of terror, torn clean away simply from the weight of all those lost beings trying to hold to her, then her bark was peeled off in the clawing of those who tried climbing up her body without branches.  It would have given her so much pain that epic poems could have been born, but in understanding the noisy and terrible orphans that killed her slowly was more than what any physical pain can muster.  It caused something like Death.  It caused her heart to break.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: #000000"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 10px"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;    Ever piece of the great and wide trunk of her tree body was eaten by those who once declared the Law of their wisest ways.  The leaders who use to own everything had been the last to come to the tree, the last to leave the ruin to which they perceived a thing they did not hate, the most desperate of the tormented who, having nothing more than a desire to own the ruin of the great tree, were also the most vicious and carnivorous of all the people of this time of our little planet.  They insatiably tore into every piece of wood-flesh they could find, and they did so at such a pace that they unknowingly disregarded their bodies until their knees began to bleed and their skin began to swell in places.  They ate away the Great Tree until it was gone and there were only roots left and the roots were too deep to reach.  &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;    The world was still as beautiful as it had ever been.  The blessings from the universe came as they had always come.  But something was not the same.  But the moment that forever will be frozen in the hearts of all quiet beings is this part of the Song of Crying:  The Angel was thrown by the force of the &amp;#034;first evil deed&amp;#034; deep into another world that needed her.  Around what was left of the Great tree, hills turned over and discarded, covered in corpses, painted in the color of shame and the juices of the first disease.  There were more dead people than living people in the world.  Those who were left never forgot the memory of having, for that moment that it is true, just a hold on a piece of her.  It was the first Hunger of the world.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: #000000"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 10px"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;    When enough silence had passed that silence was no longer important, there came the first music of our little planet, deep and rhythmic like the beating of a strong heart: low, strong, rising and rising from a deep place under the ground (under the scarred place of which the sacred, untouched roots of goodness grew like a love that can&amp;#039;t be forgotten).  The music erupted like volcanic dances that scattered pieces of the great roots so high into the sky that they became colors, so far that they become the sparkles that settle every morning on the dew.  The silent ones were not silent after all.  They had only been waiting for something to say...&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;I don&amp;#039;t know what the end of the story is so this ending will have to do &lt;img alt="emoticon" src="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dho-theme/images/emoticons/tongue.gif" &gt;</description> <pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2014 21:47:10 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5602585</guid> <dc:creator>Jeremy May</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-10T21:47:10Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>Challenge to the Arahants...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5602546</link> <description>In my subjective perspective, the &amp;#034;Living Buddha&amp;#034;, the only one that will ever claim full attainment to the public, the lay, and the uninitiated has began the claim and will reach the silent buddhas and the bodhisattvas first.  Then hopefully there will be masses that seek the dharma!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So... If you are up to this challenge, prove to me that he is not a Buddha of full attainment.  If you can disprove him then you have done for me a gift of compassion.  Here is the link that is posted in other threads by someone who is far, distantly removed from the ignorance that all of &amp;#034;you who study Dharmas&amp;#034; fight (as a way of life!) to attain even the smallest degree of what it was that Siddartha and the other Buddhas had discovered.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;http://shakyamunidhamma.jimdo.com/&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If the guy who posted this link has been fooled, then I am at ease if I am also fooled.  But if there is any true Dharma in you, you may find a Buddha and if that is the case then you must support him.  You must support the Buddha to the same degree to which you have supported yourself thus far.  Otherwise you spit in the face of a Grace you never deserved and will never know.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;    </description> <pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2014 21:00:17 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5602546</guid> <dc:creator>Jeremy May</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-10T21:00:17Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: To the Arahats</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601858</link> <description>I see you!  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;You do not understand what you have done for me, old friend.  I joined this forum because I felt someone in the world and I could not find him on the internet.  This forum is, perhaps, the last bastion of untainted dhamma and my knowing told me that I would find the one I was searching for if I participated in these threads.  You confirmed for me my knowing.  Knowing the location of this Buddha has put me at ease. Please continue, and please continue growing in fervor, spreading this book and whatever other teachings that this Buddha expounds.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Save my email, please:  cornpuffs28@gmail.com&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I won&amp;#039;t be on this forum much anymore now that I know where he is.  But if you ever need Anything, please contact me.  If you ever become confused on any matter, though I doubt you will, you must contact me.  If you need a meal, ever, please contact me.  Namaste, old friend.</description> <pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2014 19:00:33 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601858</guid> <dc:creator>Jeremy May</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-09T19:00:33Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Cessation without path?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601853</link> <description>Daniel has a perfect answer but I wanted just to add something to explain why he is correct.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There cannot be cessation except for when something that has arisen experiences cessation.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;You had a moment of clarity.  In this moment, from what I can surmise, you did experience a temporary cessation.  But we cannot call a temporary cessation a true cessation.  We must call it a suspension.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This moment, in zen, is given as a gift by the awakened masters.  They would sometimes use a stick, hitting a bhikkhu during zazen at the moment where that master percieves the moment when it is possible to hit the bhikkhu and cause a suspension.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Why?  Because if you follow Daniel&amp;#039;s advice during the moment before, during, and after the suspension, you can learn to cause the suspension whenever you wish.  What follows this knowledge will be true cessation.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I once commented on a forum &amp;#034;there must be mindfulness for escape&amp;#034;.  The Buddhists still send me emails.... &amp;#034;Enlightenment does not take effort and mindfulness takes effort.&amp;#034;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;No, Mindfulness does not take effort.  Learning Mindfulness may take effort, but Mindfullness is a natural state of being.  Why are they confused?  Mindfulness alone does not help us achieve cessation.  That is why we must learn to also meditate.  When our meditation is strong and we can achieve long sittings, there are many moments of Suspension that happen naturally, even without a stick to the back.  If we are mindful, we will see the moment before, during, and after.  We will then know The Way.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Because you even asked the question, because you knew that you did not achieve cessation, because you knew that you did achieve temporary cessation, because you intuitively see the Light so strongly that you found one of the best dharma teacher in america and posted on his forum, because of all these things, You are a natural Buddhist and all of these things that you will learn will be learned easily for you. You are going to be a great Teacher!  Keep Going!!</description> <pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2014 18:48:53 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601853</guid> <dc:creator>Jeremy May</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-09T18:48:53Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: To the Arahats</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601844</link> <description>&amp;#034;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;There may possibly be others but they leave no energy signature for me to pick up on in my current spiritual condition. &amp;#034;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Your inner knowing has picked up on more than you mentally know.  But it is true that those who have left this universe (the constraints of your universe- though there is no other place) can not be seen for what they are except for by each other.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;But they pick up on your energy clearly.  They see you for what you are.  They are in love with you and they rejoice in the power of your path, both for the benefit of your present temporal self (You have worked for lifetimes to achieve your present practice) and for the benefits that will follow you forever onward (Forever and ever in your future incarnations) as they transform every blessed creature that is pulled into your life.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;When the awakening for this temporal life is complete, your hermitage will naturally be completed, and your life will be a busy, busy work overflowing with beautiful people who are pulled to the light in you.  The ones that are meant to learn from you will naturally, magnetically come.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Know that you are never alone!  There are mighty forces behind you, guiding you.  It is a stage in the awakening process that necessitates the perception that &amp;#034;I am unknown to the buddhas.  They will never notice me.  I must continue on alone.  This practice I have achieved, I achieved alone&amp;#034;.  Those who have left the universe know that they must let you think this.  When it is no longer useful for you to think this, you will see the Great Attention that has been given to you.  Perhaps you will even learn of some of your past lives and see them with fresh eyes, seeing the moments when the Buddhas of this world blatantly contacted you.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There are those who awaken to their true nature and live forever quietly in the world.  These are old Buddhas.  They are no longer Buddhas, as the term refers to a relationship between humans and a servant of God.  They are residing in Nirvana as reward for eons of work.  But there are those who awaken to their true nature and are not quiet.  They have a divine purpose that has been given to their nature and it is from this purpose, born from infinite love for the human animal, that all of their actions are born and fulfilled.  That is why I say there is no &amp;#039;being&amp;#039; in a Buddha in the way that humans understand &amp;#039;beings&amp;#039;.  The soul of a Buddha is outside of time.  The temporal lives that incarnate the karmic energies of the Buddha in your space-time universe only follow and do What is Needed for the World.  It is not possible for them to care about being seen.  It does no good.  But they see you, and they help you.  I swear on my own life that they have always helped you... Your future purpose is that of a buddha.  Not everyone has such purpose.  You must understand that your work will be so fruitful that it is simply not fantastic at all to think that, Yes!, of course you are special to them to the point of arresting their Great Attention!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;They know you well, Love!  Keep Going!!!!!!!&lt;/span&gt;</description> <pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2014 18:25:36 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601844</guid> <dc:creator>Jeremy May</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-09T18:25:36Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Fruition and stream entry?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601728</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Eric M W:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;Your experience sounds very promising. There are a few things that really help to &amp;#034;diagnose&amp;#034; SE, especially considering this is an internet forum and therefore it is a limited way of communicating.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Have you noticed any more blips or discontinuities? What happens if you incline your mind towards one?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Is there any sense of cycling?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;Change in perspective remains, strong.&lt;br /&gt;Regarding the blip, the other day I almost got one. I felt the stillness, and it was like someone was looking at me, right in front of my face.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I have to be careful because I feel so good (superman thing).&lt;br /&gt;In my opinion, humility and honesty are great assets in the path (and I really should cultivate more of those).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&amp;#039;ve been noticing differences when I focus on senses (eyesight, hearing, etc) and when I focus on feelings (noting practice).&lt;br /&gt;I&amp;#039;m pretty sure I have to notice feelings to move forward, and I guess noting senses could make a review of the previous path up to fruition?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I guess it&amp;#039;s a good idea to notice everything (and I do that), but with special focus on feelings (specially when with people), to move forward.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&amp;#039;ve been reading the dho regarding the middle paths.&lt;br /&gt;I thank all who have posted there (found very good tips).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Regarding the claim, I&amp;#039;m still pretty sure about it (evidence very strong), but if at some point evidence suggest otherwise (long time without any new fruitions?), I will &amp;#034;unclaim it&amp;#034;, have no problem with that.</description> <pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2014 15:31:29 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601728</guid> <dc:creator>Ernest Michael Olmos</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-09T15:31:29Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Statistics of sudden awakenings</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601505</link> <description>I agree.</description> <pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2014 07:43:33 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601505</guid> <dc:creator>Rod</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-09T07:43:33Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: To the Arahats</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601462</link> <description>&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;shakyamunidhamma&amp;#x2e;jimdo&amp;#x2e;com"&gt;www.shakyamunidhamma.jimdo.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt; </description> <pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2014 06:20:14 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601462</guid> <dc:creator>Viran Shaminda Kariyawasam</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-09T06:20:14Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Statistics of sudden awakenings</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601450</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;J J:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;Alan Chapman states in this video: http://vimeo.com/14928107 at around 6:18 &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&amp;#034;And I think the fact of the matter is that enlightenment is far more common than people are willing to admit.&amp;#034; Previously he had said that he had no reason to doubt any of many of the claims to enlightenment that teachers in the public domain had made (listing Ken Wilber, Adi Da, Chogyam Trungpa, Andrew Cohen). Duncan Barford on his OEITH blog states (in his &amp;#034;An Apology for Meditation&amp;#034; article) that he agrees with Bill Joslin that &amp;#034;&lt;u&gt;awakening experiences are not a big deal.&lt;/u&gt;&amp;#034;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;What I&amp;#039;m trying to say is that, awakening is actually extremely common, despite what may seem like a New-Age-y thing, it does seem that awakening is becoming more and more common. From my perspective (which I consider awakened), everyone is awakened.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;And I don&amp;#039;t mean that in an only absolute sense, I mean that literally, despite whatever training I have done, whatever &amp;#034;distinctions I have attained&amp;#034;. I literally see everyone as awakened and having no distinction between myself and them. This is somewhat like the Hongaku doctrine, but that doctrine seems to imply that awakening is actually something special, which it isn&amp;#039;t.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There is no expression, no progress, no path, no fruition, the vidya (rigpa) is ever present. But no clouded or shrouded either. It&amp;#039;s a koan.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Even Hakuin opined that the tales of seekers and masters taking 10 or 20 years for their quest to end must have surely been made up by them! Stating: &amp;#034;The Way is not far from man.&amp;#034;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Peace.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;JJ,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Um, I don&amp;#039;t know about this sort of stuff. Maybe it is a poor choice of words but awakening is not an experience as Bill Joslin said. Maybe they confuse awakening/enlightenment with something else. Certainly for me, my late teacher as well as to each one who has awakened in my guidance awakening is a &amp;#034;big deal&amp;#034;, a turning point. By big deal, I mean a definite shift that is permanent, dropping of I from the place of subject. That is how the gang of robbers looses it&amp;#039;s boss, in a psychological sense, and that is never an insignificant thing. If it was an insignificant thing I doubt people of the past or present would be interested in it. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If awakening is something that makes the person better, higher or more precious than others, then we are not talking about awakening as how I understand it. For me awakening hasn&amp;#039;t brought an &amp;#034;aura of mystery&amp;#034;, a higher position in relation to others or something like that but the contrary, naturalness and simplicity. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I certainly don&amp;#039;t think that awakenings are &amp;#034;extremely common&amp;#034;. If they were, the world society and the planet would be in a very different place. Sure, awakenings do occur these days much more often than for example 10, 50 or 100 years ago but still, I think, it will be perhaps hundreds of years before we can talk about &amp;#034;mass awakenings&amp;#034; that will have a direct effect on the society. That is simple not the situation at the moment.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Hakuin&amp;#039;s quote &amp;#034;The Way is not far from man&amp;#034; is spot on. He does say that there is some distance between man and the Way which in practical terms means that everyone is not already awakened. Surely Hakuin wasn&amp;#039;t before he had first breakthrough. I think he wrote in his diary that he had 18 breakthroughs which made him the most respected zen-master of the modern times.</description> <pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2014 05:21:48 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601450</guid> <dc:creator>Kim Katami</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-09T05:21:48Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Statistics of sudden awakenings</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601446</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Teague:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;If you have someones permission, can you post before and after photos of their eyes?  That&amp;#039;s something I&amp;#039;d be keen to see.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;-T&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;T. I can ask. I&amp;#039;ve formed a closed FB-group for people who have passed the gate through this process. That has been a handy platform for open discussion.</description> <pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2014 05:03:52 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601446</guid> <dc:creator>Kim Katami</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-09T05:03:52Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Statistics of sudden awakenings</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601346</link> <description>Alan Chapman states in this video: http://vimeo.com/14928107 at around 6:18 &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&amp;#034;And I think the fact of the matter is that enlightenment is far more common than people are willing to admit.&amp;#034; Previously he had said that he had no reason to doubt any of many of the claims to enlightenment that teachers in the public domain had made (listing Ken Wilber, Adi Da, Chogyam Trungpa, Andrew Cohen). Duncan Barford on his OEITH blog states (in his &amp;#034;An Apology for Meditation&amp;#034; article) that he agrees with Bill Joslin that &amp;#034;awakening experiences are not a big deal.&amp;#034;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;What I&amp;#039;m trying to say is that, awakening is actually extremely common, despite what may seem like a New-Age-y thing, it does seem that awakening is becoming more and more common. From my perspective (which I consider awakened), everyone is awakened.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;And I don&amp;#039;t mean that in an only absolute sense, I mean that literally, despite whatever training I have done, whatever &amp;#034;distinctions I have attained&amp;#034;. I literally see everyone as awakened and having no distinction between myself and them. This is somewhat like the Hongaku doctrine, but that doctrine seems to imply that awakening is actually something special, which it isn&amp;#039;t.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There is no expression, no progress, no path, no fruition, the vidya (rigpa) is ever present. But no clouded or shrouded either. It&amp;#039;s a koan.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Even Hakuin opined that the tales of seekers and masters taking 10 or 20 years for their quest to end must have surely been made up by them! Stating: &amp;#034;The Way is not far from man.&amp;#034;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Peace.</description> <pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2014 23:31:03 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601346</guid> <dc:creator>J J</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-08T23:31:03Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Statistics of sudden awakenings</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601313</link> <description>If you have someones permission, can you post before and after photos of their eyes?  That&amp;#039;s something I&amp;#039;d be keen to see.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;-T</description> <pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2014 23:10:03 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601313</guid> <dc:creator>Teague</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-08T23:10:03Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Statistics of sudden awakenings</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601273</link> <description>Can you estimate an average amount of experience for the people you work with? And, your criteria remain unconvincing to me. I&amp;#039;d like to believe awakening is that easy, but I doubt it. It&amp;#039;s remarkable what people will script themselves into if they&amp;#039;ve paid money.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Also, to partially answer Simon&amp;#039;s question, I think your definition of &amp;#039;stream-entry&amp;#039; isn&amp;#039;t congruent with the typical definition of stream-entry around here. Your &amp;#039;stream-entry&amp;#039; is &amp;#039;MCTB arhatship&amp;#039;, I think.</description> <pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2014 22:31:45 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601273</guid> <dc:creator>Droll Dedekind</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-08T22:31:45Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Statistics of sudden awakenings</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601263</link> <description>Is the process effective beyond stream entry?</description> <pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2014 22:16:16 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601263</guid> <dc:creator>Simon T.</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-08T22:16:16Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Statistics of sudden awakenings</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601218</link> <description>DD,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There are three ways for either verification or falsification that I use (not in specific order).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;1. Written word/answers given by the person&lt;br /&gt;2. A newly taken profile photo where eyes are clearly seen (because the I-sense falls off from the level of the eyes)&lt;br /&gt;3. The energetic feeling/sensation that is transmitted from the particular person (where you need to be able to compare to your own awakened state whether an awakening has occurred or not)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Refer to the book for further info: http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/5594955&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&amp;#039;ve had people ranging from 2 months of meditation background to 30 years of &amp;#034;professional&amp;#034; practice (10 years out of those 30 as a monk). Prior practices vary from simple stress reduction exercises to Transcendental Meditation, from kriya yoga to &lt;em&gt;tai chi&lt;/em&gt;. Ages between 23-70. Men and women. All European so far. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Based on my exp emailing is not unreliable at all. &lt;img alt="emoticon" src="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dho-theme/images/emoticons/closed_eyes.gif" &gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Baba</description> <pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2014 20:52:27 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601218</guid> <dc:creator>Kim Katami</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-08T20:52:27Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Statistics of sudden awakenings</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601209</link> <description>How do you determine that someone has achieved &amp;#039;stream-entry&amp;#039;? How many had prior meditation and seeking? &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A text conversation in which awakening is expected seems like an unreliable way to collect data.</description> <pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2014 20:28:04 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/es/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601209</guid> <dc:creator>Droll Dedekind</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-08T20:28:04Z</dc:date> </item> </channel> </rss> 