Report from my 5th retreat

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Yadid dee, modified 14 Years ago at 9/11/09 11:00 AM
Created 14 Years ago at 9/11/09 11:00 AM

Report from my 5th retreat

Posts: 258 Join Date: 9/11/09 Recent Posts
First of all i'd like to say to all those who have been involved in setting up this new site - thank you! it certainly looks very organized and easy to use.

Today I returned from my 5th retreat, which was a 10-day retreat in the Goenka tradition. I crossed the A&P several times already, first time on my 3rd retreat, and also on my last retreat which was an 8day, 4 months ago, in which I didn't really develop good equanimity.

In this retreat, I believe I crossed the A&P again on the 3rd day while doing Anapana at the nostrils, though I was actually trying to really tigthen and narrow down my concentration, this basically consisted of taking the mind and applying it to the breath at the tip of the nose and the related vibratory sensations which manifest there, and I was really putting alot of effort into the practice every moment for about 13+ hours a day during the first 4 and a half days.

At some point during the 3rd day while doing anapana suddenly i felt exhilirated, really enthusiastic about practice, motivated, etc, which I recognized from before as A&P, though this time it didn't come with the experience of the whole body melting intensly in a pleasant way like last time which lasted for 3 hours.

Anyway, I then started to do body scanning, and during this retreat I resolved to really put *all* the effort I had into it, not really letting mood swings / emotions / changing motivation to change the amount of effort im putting into my practice - this really helped me. During the 6th day I found that very strong equanimity and peace has developed towards everything which was being experienced - this came after I really started accepting suffering and really investigating what it really is and what it feels like on the body and mind.

A main point I would like to thank all people here for and especially Daniel, Tarin and Kenneth - is that the strong ability to really put all effort into practice without falling into the traps of doubt etc is because I now have a strong feeling it is possible.

I am not sure whether this was a period in which I was able to reach the equanimity nyana for a period before falling back to the dark night or not, this is what I am actually asking for advice about - though it doens't matter that much - just a matter of curiosity.

During this retreat I noticed that the last 2 days were quite hard to concentrate because of thoughts of going back home etc, so basically I decided a long retreat is necessary whenever I have the chance, this might just be in 2 years time, but I have decided to probably go to Nepal to sit in Panditarama for 3 months or so.. until then, next retreat is another 10-day'er in 4 months time.. I try to do one every 4 months or so whenever my studies allow.


Thank you for reading and I hope to hear your thoughts on this.
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Yadid dee, modified 14 Years ago at 9/12/09 12:07 AM
Created 14 Years ago at 9/12/09 12:07 AM

RE: Report from my 5th retreat

Posts: 258 Join Date: 9/11/09 Recent Posts
Something I thought I'd add: At times of strong equanimity towards what was being experienced, mental processes became more apparent such as intentions, cravings, aversions, and others, popping out of nothing and then disappearing.
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Dan Bartlett, modified 14 Years ago at 9/12/09 4:51 AM
Created 14 Years ago at 9/12/09 4:51 AM

RE: Report from my 5th retreat

Posts: 46 Join Date: 7/20/09 Recent Posts
Hi Yadid,

Well done, you certainly seem to have the right attitude for a retreat. That kind of motivation will really help you out. I did a Goenka 10-day in January and went through the Dark Night into equanimity. (I wrote up a report of that retreat here)

Anyway, I then started to do body scanning, and during this retreat I resolved to really put *all* the effort I had into it, not really letting mood swings / emotions / changing motivation to change the amount of effort im putting into my practice - this really helped me.


Go careful though. Because eventually the moods will come, and then if your approach is too solid or rigid you will think "failure". But moods are moods; they come and go regardless of your intentions. And each has a unique set of sensations for you to investigate ;-)

During the 6th day I found that very strong equanimity and peace has developed towards everything which was being experienced - this came after I really started accepting suffering and really investigating what it really is and what it feels like on the body and mind.


Funny, that all happened to me on the 6th day as well. It was the turning point in my retreat.

I am not sure whether this was a period in which I was able to reach the equanimity nyana for a period before falling back to the dark night or not, this is what I am actually asking for advice about - though it doens't matter that much - just a matter of curiosity.


I'm not entirely sure exactly what you're asking here. Could you re-phrase it? It sounds like you did reach equanimity. Try not to think of it as something you grasp and then let go of straight away: equanimity can be kept up off retreat, although you may need a retreat to push it towards stream entry. I kept up equanimity at home until I got annoyed with more frequent fall backs into the dark night. That's when I decided I wanted to go on retreat again to finish up.

At times of strong equanimity towards what was being experienced, mental processes became more apparent such as intentions, cravings, aversions, and others, popping out of nothing and then disappearing.


I had similar experiences in equanimity after I got back off retreat. It felt like I'd discovered this horizontal sheet of space, which I'd never noticed before, from which all things arise and pass from. (hint: it too consisted of subtle sensations which I then went on to penetrate)
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Yadid dee, modified 14 Years ago at 9/12/09 12:37 PM
Created 14 Years ago at 9/12/09 12:36 PM

RE: Report from my 5th retreat

Posts: 258 Join Date: 9/11/09 Recent Posts
Dan Bartlett:
Hi Yadid,

Go careful though. Because eventually the moods will come, and then if your approach is too solid or rigid you will think "failure". But moods are moods; they come and go regardless of your intentions. And each has a unique set of sensations for you to investigate ;-)


True, I agree with you. Moods were definitely there and were being acknowledged and investigated - what I meant to say was that I decided not to let the moods dictate how much effort I am putting into my practice during this retreat, that is - happy and motivated - full power ahead, sad and iritated - full power ahead.

Dan Bartlett:
I had similar experiences in equanimity after I got back off retreat. It felt like I'd discovered this horizontal sheet of space, which I'd never noticed before, from which all things arise and pass from. (hint: it too consisted of subtle sensations which I then went on to penetrate)


This is very interesting, thank you Dan.

I got a question for you: What makes you think you have reached stream entry? how does this affect your every-day life, interactions with people, etc..

cheers!
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Dan Bartlett, modified 14 Years ago at 9/13/09 8:22 AM
Created 14 Years ago at 9/13/09 7:59 AM

RE: Report from my 5th retreat

Posts: 46 Join Date: 7/20/09 Recent Posts
What makes you think you have reached stream entry?


I experienced formations, fell back, formations, fell back (over and over) and then "experienced" a fruition. I initially doubted the fruition but shortly afterwards something had definitely changed, and I noticed cycling (i.e. some nana-specific perceptual changes). I felt like some process had been completed and was very confident in certain things that I'd previously doubted. There was a lot of bliss the next day, either from the fruition or due to the next A&P, I'm not sure.

how does this affect your every-day life, interactions with people, etc..


Hard to say, because I'm constantly working from multiple angles (meditation, daily mindfulness, drugs etc), so it's not easy to figure out what exactly leads to what. There are little things that I've noticed, but it varies with each person, and on how much you effort you put into integrating your insights into life off the cushion. For me, the changes are mostly noticeable in meditation, along with confidence in and knowledge of certain dharma concepts.
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Yadid dee, modified 14 Years ago at 9/13/09 11:19 AM
Created 14 Years ago at 9/13/09 11:19 AM

RE: Report from my 5th retreat

Posts: 258 Join Date: 9/11/09 Recent Posts
Dan Bartlett:

I experienced formations, fell back, formations, fell back (over and over) and then "experienced" a fruition. I initially doubted the fruition but shortly afterwards something had definitely changed, and I noticed cycling (i.e. some nana-specific perceptual changes). I felt like some process had been completed and was very confident in certain things that I'd previously doubted. There was a lot of bliss the next day, either from the fruition or due to the next A&P, I'm not sure.

May I ask what were you confident in you previously doubted?

Dan Bartlett:

Hard to say, because I'm constantly working from multiple angles (meditation, daily mindfulness, drugs etc), so it's not easy to figure out what exactly leads to what. There are little things that I've noticed, but it varies with each person, and on how much you effort you put into integrating your insights into life off the cushion. For me, the changes are mostly noticeable in meditation, along with confidence in and knowledge of certain dharma concepts.

What sort of drugs?

Can you willfully cycle through all the way to nibbana/fruition when sitting on the cushion?
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Dan Bartlett, modified 14 Years ago at 9/14/09 6:32 AM
Created 14 Years ago at 9/14/09 6:32 AM

RE: Report from my 5th retreat

Posts: 46 Join Date: 7/20/09 Recent Posts
May I ask what were you confident in you previously doubted?


Confidence came in two ways: firstly a certain conceptual leap and infatuation with emptiness and dependent co-arising, and secondly a more heartfelt confidence and faith in the selfless nature of things. More chilled, less needing to find "it." Everything was just that bit more obvious. But realise that YMMV.

I don't know what the DhO policy on chatting about drug use is, so I'll keep that to myself for the time being.

Re: cycling, I can't do it "willfully" but it does seem to happen of its own accord. Then again I really haven't put any effort into trying to willfully re-experience various stages of the cycle. I generally don't pay much attention to cycles in my current practice.