Tommy M:
Criticisms -
1. Nirodha Samapatti - You won't get this so don't waste your valuable time trying. It's like a special Fruition which is only available to those who've gotten 3rd Path and above.
Understood. The "door" i talked about still seems attractive, i'm throwing the experimentation with it far into the category of "playtime"
Tommy M:
2. Jhanas - I'd suggest dropping what you think is and isn't jhana, go back to basics with this one. If using this "witness" is useful to get access concentration and move into 1st jhana then that's great, if not then try something simple like the breath. If you want to experience the real "witness" in the way it's generally discussed on here then repeat the question "Who am I?" until you get the answer.
This one's gonna be hard to follow your advice on. First:
The WitnessFirst, that sounds like the witness i use. I've used the "who am i", but usually do a non-linguistic looking for "the one experiencing this". If i try to focus my attention directly on it, instead of just resting there, this "witness" seems perfectly slippery - attention seems to slide off it and to the side. I can keep trying to focus directly on it, and make my attention stay near it, being redirected and then going back. It's very much like the "witness was a very tall mountain, and my attention was ball - whenever i try to roll the ball to the top, it rolls right back long before it reaches the summit.
It was around this object that a crust of "I" seemed to reform the evening i describe in the post.
Second,
JhanaThis will probably be more constructive in the practice thread i'm going to start, instead of going here.
Tommy M:
3. Three Characteristics - Some useful advice here is that you don't actually "note" the 3C's. It's a conceptual framework, you're observing phenomena as it arises and passes which is a real-time demonstration of these fundamental concepts of impermanence, suffering and not self. Be aware of the 3C's, but don't note them like sensations because they're evident in every single thing. If you find you're thinking about them, perhaps note something like "dharma thought" or whatever works for you. Learn more about what these actually refer to, these are fundamental concepts and need to be understood. Suffering isn't about something just being unpleasant, it's about duality itself and the desire for things to be other than the way they are.
First, i don't note the three characteristics, i notice them - though i sometimes have to bring up a specific perspective to notice no-self and suffering (i think i actually got that one right, but gonna read up on the three characteristics anyways.
Tommy M:
4. Speculation - I've been majorly guilty of this during practice, it's something easily avoided but hugely rewarding as it frees up more "processing power" to note better. It does you no good, ends up confusing the issue and is a waste of time. Just report whatever happens at a sensate level, it's easy to run rings around yourself thinking you're in this jhana or that ñana but only continued and accurate practice will make this clearer.
I agree it's somewhat easily avoided while actually on the cushion. It's off the cushion that i get really into it. Will try to cut away the judging jhanas, et.c, at least until the meditation is over.
Tommy M:
5. Scripting - It's easy to lead yourself into certain experiences by knowing the phenomena to look out for, and having the desire to attain it but this is where your honesty will come in handy.
I'm trying to be extremely wary of this - my self-hypnosis practice taught me a thing or two about the mind's ability to very subtly construct experiences. Also, thanks
Tommy M:
I think you've got some skills, but there's a lot of confused definitions and basic errors which are easily corrected. More importantly, you're doing the practice which is what makes the progress and anything else will work itself out in the wash. Go back to basics with all of this, I don't want to sound patronizing or anything but you need to brush up on your overall understanding of the terms you're using. I did the same myself so I know what it's like, I'm not just being an arsehole for the sake of it.

I suspect there's less confused understanding and more bad communication on my part than you think. Also probably more confused understanding than i think, but will read up on some basics.
Tommy M:
In all honesty, I'd write off stream entry for the moment. How long have you been meditating for before now?
Since december, february or may, depending on what you count. Started with guided meditations in the psychological mindfulness tradition. Then started jhana-oriented concentration practice. Then started dedicated insight practice.
Tommy M:
My honest opinion is that you're getting into the A&P, there can be drops and breath shifts during this stage so don't use that to identify anything yet, it takes time and practice but the repeated experience of moving through them will make it all clear eventually.
I will make a practice thread and we will see how things turn out. I will say that if it's A&P, i'm pretty sure it's not the first time i've been there.
Tommy M:
Seriously though, strip back what you're doing and go back to basics and you'll see why I keep going on about this. Build the foundation on solid ground and the house won't fall down. You seem like you've got your shit together and have a natural ability with this so use it, don't get caught up in fantasy during practice, just note it as "fantasizing" or whatever, and learn what these terms you're using actually relate to.
As i said, i think the foundation is more solid than you do. However, that doesn't mean that it isn't a good idea to go back to basics, and i will do so

Tommy M:
I know I can sound like I'm being a dick sometimes, it's not personal but I'd rather cut to the chase and say "Look, here's where you're going wrong" than become your online friend. That may sound a bit cold but I genuinely do care about helping people to wake up to what's right there in front of them, sometimes it's better to drop the banter and get down to business and sometimes that means being blunt and honest, however unpleasant that may be. I've had my ass kicked with this too and it hurts, but it all passes and we learn from it. We all fuck up, that's just the way of it and nobody is "perfect".
I have noticed your style by now, and its become apparent that there's nothing hostile in it ;) Thanks for helping. Also, dealing with how social stuff can distract from something much more important can be messy, so i appreciate your clear stance. Let's close that subject here. You can stop apologizing for being blunt, and i'll let you know if you go too far.
Metta
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