Gerry T:
Ian And:
Gerry T:
On another occasion I was meditating with a group. During the meditation sounds that would normally distract me I experienced as being perfect and I did not identify with them. It was one of those sessions where everything felt perfect and in it's place.
Another moment of insight that you should savor
and perhaps investigate further during a vipassana session, in order to deepen the value of the gained insight. Once you fully realize what you accomplished during this experience, it will hit you like a ton of bricks. An
ah-haa moment!
Ian,
Thank you for your input. I am trying to figure out where these "experiences" fit into the picture. Since these experiences are different than my regular way of experiencing things I figure they must have something to do with the practice. But then I don't know how they fit into the "map".
I have some ideas of the implications of investigating experience to the point of understanding the three characteristics. And I do know that there is a big difference between the idea of that and the actual experience of that. But when these experiences come up I need help in understanding what is of value and where it fits into the big picture.
This is where I need help now. (thank you for taking the time to comment.)
If what you experienced was to not identify with the sounds and thus not become distracted, what do you think you could do with that ability? Would it help you to investigate an object (in this case sound) more deeply in order to see it more clearly with insight?
I don't follow any of the maps proposed by Daniel and others here, although there are certainly parallels. I follow the original instruction given in the discourses, which points directly at one's experience and attempts to have the observer directly observe and gain insight into phenomena from that direct and stark observation.
There are passages in the discourses which point toward these moments. Such as the following from the
Susima Sutta in the Samyutta Nikaya (SN 12.70). The quotation itself is taken from a translation done by Thanissaro Bhikkhu; the words in brackets are Bhikkhu Bodhi's translations of those same words, whose translations I generally prefer over Thanissaro's. Although in this case, I like the choice of the word "unbinding" used at the end of the first sentence as it provides an implication that may be more accessible to general understanding.
"Whether or not you understand, Susima, it is still the case that first there is the knowledge of the regularity of the Dhamma, after which there is the knowledge of Unbinding .
"What do you think, Susima: Is form (any physical phenomenon) constant or inconstant ?" — "Inconstant, lord." — "And is that which is inconstant easeful or stressful [suffering or happiness]?" — "Stressful , lord." — "And is it fitting to regard what is inconstant, stressful, subject to change as: 'This is mine. This is my self. This is what I am'?"
"No, lord."
"Is feeling constant or inconstant?" — "Inconstant, lord." — "Is perception constant or inconstant?" — "Inconstant, lord." — "Are fabrications [volitional formations] constant or inconstant?" — "Inconstant, lord."
"What do you think, Susima: Is consciousness constant or inconstant?" — "Inconstant, lord." — "And is that which is inconstant easeful or stressful [suffering or happiness]?" — "Stressful , lord." — "And is it fitting to regard what is inconstant, stressful, subject to change as: 'This is mine. This is my self. This is what I am'?"
"No, lord."
"Therefore, Susima, any form whatsoever that is past, future, or present; internal or external; blatant or subtle; common or sublime; far or near:
every form is to be seen as it actually is with right discernment as: '
This is not mine. This is not my self. This is not what I am.'"Any feeling whatsoever...Any perception whatsoever...Any fabrications [volitional formations] whatsoever...
"Any consciousness whatsoever that is past, future, or present; internal or external; blatant or subtle; common or sublime; far or near: every consciousness
is to be seen as it actually is with right discernment as:
'This is not mine. This is not my self. This is not what I am.'"Seeing thus, the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones grows disenchanted with form, disenchanted with feeling, disenchanted with perception, disenchanted with fabrications, disenchanted with consciousness. Disenchanted, he becomes dispassionate.
Through dispassion, he is fully released. With full release, there is the knowledge, 'Fully released.' He discerns that 'Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, the task done. There is nothing further for this world.' "
Gerry T:
Ian And:
But quite aside from that, noting is only meant to instill awareness of phenomena happening in the present moment. It's an awareness exercise. Being aware only takes a split second. Don't think you have to internally verbalize each object noted. Use it in that way, and you shouldn't feel overwhelmed.
Ian
Thanks for helping me put this in focus. I do have one question. Would you say the experience I had of awareness is a PCE? And if so,. If I can get to that state of awareness what sort of effort would you suggest I make from there? Or should I not try for the PCE experience?
I don't characterize things in terms of the Actual Freedom material. For that, you will need to discuss these things with those who do.
To respond to the questions you posed, the practice as I have experienced it has nothing to do with "getting to state of awareness" in a meditational sense wherein you experience such shifts only briefly and impermanently; but rather a state of direct knowing or knowledge which naturally acknowledges such shifts in one's perception of reality. It has to do with doing the hard work that makes those shifts permanent (or at least as permanent as anything in this world can be) within one's understanding of reality. Which implies a realization (or insight) into the processes that the mind undergoes while it is sorting out its perception of reality.
Insight is directly seeing things as they are; not just visiting a state of consciousness that briefly shifts one's perception of reality without that perception having become a more overriding fixture, so to speak. Replacing the previous wrongly conditioned state of perception. In other words, Wrong View of reality and phenomena is replaced with Right View of reality and phenomena. When this occurs (and the person fully realizes it), a shift occurs in the person's perception such that liberation from
dukkha is achieved. Hence the stock statement: "Birth is destroyed, the holy life has been lived, what had to be done has been done, there is no more for this state of being."
I hope that helps, some.