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RE: How to have visions??
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How to have visions??
6/30/11 12:09 PM
Hi everyone,

As I mentioned in another thread, I may have crossed A&P, and if I did, it did not include visions of light (at least anything spectacular; I did have a sort of weird visual thing, but I'm not even 25% sure I can attribute it to A&P or if it was just random). So I guess I'm wondering, if I did in fact have an A&P experience, how can I make the next one include visions of light--or, heck, awesome visions of any kind?

I know it's not the "path", just a side thing on the way to enlightenment, but, I dunno, it sounds fun. I've always had a fascination with hallucinations, but have been too scared to take hallucinogens, so if there's a way to do it that's "natural", I'm excited to try it.

I don't even know if it's possible to induce this stuff (like, say, in the way one can sort of "program" oneself to have a lucid dream) beyond just deep and prolonged meditation, but, well, is that all there is to it? Or was there a difference in the way you've meditated or thought when you did vs. didn't have visions (whether in A&P or otherwise)?

For instance, a friend of mine had her first vision (w/ eyes open) when she was 12--I believe after she crossed A&P and had been basically in a form of light meditation for about a month. It seems to me like she's just naturally predisposed to such things, but I'm thinking of trying this just to see what happens.

Or are visions basically inevitable if I continue meditating, and I don't need to do anything in particular to try to get them?

Thanks. :3

-morgan
RE: How to have visions??
6/30/11 12:46 PM as a reply to Morgan Taylor.
close your eyes. press the palms of your hand into your eyes, applying pressure to the point where it even gets uncomfortable/painful but before it seems like it'll cause eye damage. move em around a bit. you should start to have visions! =).

meditation-wise, try a candle-flame kasina. light a candle. stare at it with your eyes open, focusing on it as an object of meditation. lock your mind onto the flame. when you think you're locked on enough (say, in 1st jhana), then close your eyes and look for a red dot. there will be the afterimage of the flame and candle, but there will also be a red dot. now focus on that red dot and don't let it get away. it will start moving around and sputtering and manifesting according to the stages of insight. should do some trippy stuff around A&P.

or just try focusing on your visual field when you're doing your samatha jhanas. it should change as you go deeper into the jhanas. for me, for 6th jhana for example, there's always a white light of some kind
RE: How to have visions??
6/30/11 2:45 PM as a reply to Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem.
Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem:
close your eyes. press the palms of your hand into your eyes, applying pressure to the point where it even gets uncomfortable/painful but before it seems like it'll cause eye damage. move em around a bit. you should start to have visions! =).


LOL.


It might be something one is predisposed towards. I didn't initially make it a point of practice to get visions, but often got pretty fun ones - and enjoyment of that possibly carried it on. So when I did notice some color or light or other vision would come up, I'd incline very slightly more towards those, while still noticing other sensations. More interesting ones being in A&P and High Equanimity. A&P had fireworks and blast of light types to it - very vivid and saturated colors. Also lots of psychedelic patterns - like gold filigree and colorful paisley morphing into eachother and then turning into figures like Ganesh or Buddha. High Equanimity was more deep spaceish - like defying gravity and wide sweeping aurora types, less vivid color.
RE: How to have visions??
6/30/11 4:31 PM as a reply to Morgan Taylor.
First thing, the A&P doesn't always have these "visions" you keep talking about. Drop the preconceptions and expectations, if you're practicing well then you'll encounter a strong A&P crossing at some point. You're trying too hard to manipulate your experience here, and if you're not familiar with the territory then you'll quickly find how effective a mimic the mind can be if you go looking for specific phenomena. Stick to the practice, worry about the terminology later.

You're misinformed about the subjective effects of most hallucinogens by the sounds of things, they don't usually create any true hallucinations in the sense that you seem to be expecting, particularly not at the doses available at street-level.

It is possible to experience sensory hallucinations through concentration practice, although this will take a lot of work and seems to work best when using resolutions. Another option, and one which would also require considerable effort, is the magickal practice of "skyring", although, again, this is unlikely to provide you with the sort of experience you seem to be expecting.

What is it that you hope to achieve by having a "vision"?
RE: How to have visions??
7/8/11 4:32 PM as a reply to Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem.
Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem:
or just try focusing on your visual field when you're doing your samatha jhanas. it should change as you go deeper into the jhanas. for me, for 6th jhana for example, there's always a white light of some kind


That brings up an interesting point; when I starting wanting to have visions, I started just noticing what I saw with my eyes closed, and a sort of pattern came up. I wonder if stuff like that is always there, but I just don't notice it. So yeah, now I'll just try paying attention to it.
RE: How to have visions??
7/8/11 4:33 PM as a reply to Steph S.
Steph S:
So when I did notice some color or light or other vision would come up, I'd incline very slightly more towards those, while still noticing other sensations. More interesting ones being in A&P and High Equanimity. A&P had fireworks and blast of light types to it - very vivid and saturated colors. Also lots of psychedelic patterns - like gold filigree and colorful paisley morphing into eachother and then turning into figures like Ganesh or Buddha. High Equanimity was more deep spaceish - like defying gravity and wide sweeping aurora types, less vivid color.


Very cool. I'll try inclining towards them as well. emoticon
RE: How to have visions??
7/24/11 5:36 AM as a reply to Morgan Taylor.
Hi Morgan,

What I do is to stare at an black obsidian ball placed on a white cloth, with a candle behind my back in a dark room. After about 5 or 10 minutes, I squint or close my eyes and see the luminous afterimage of the obsidian ball. I then visualize a white rose that merges with the light orb (after image, 'nimitta') and allow the white rose to shift into a vision. I then describe what I see, making mental notes. In relation with magical rituals (evocation, reading the call of the 19th Enochian Aethyr), I am became able to see spirits, deities or angels, travel to other worlds or get visions of the future (like the tsunami in Japan). Visions arise in the state called access concentration. If we ignore them and focus on the light orb (nimitta), we may suddenly merge with the light and access the 1st Jhana, which matches the stage of insight knowledge of arising and passing away.

Best,

Alex
RE: How to have visions??
7/24/11 7:13 PM as a reply to Morgan Taylor.
As Tarin says: you get what you optimize for.

Thus, when walking around, pay attention to color and detail the colors and visuals of your experience, like you were trying to remember how to paint it later.

Also, as suggested: candle flame is good, and the black obsidian ball should work also: basically any kasina-type object.

When eyes are closed, if you can see any colors or shapes or even vague static, really pay attention to it, try to manipulate it if you can, and slowly develop out those colors and forms to more complex shapes.

All of this, coupled with pre-programming (read something about visualization exercises from whatever tradition), along with resolutions, are the standard methods.

Visions are interesting, generally take some sort of solid concentration, which has its own merits, and while many would counsel to the straight and narrow, one can often gain surprising things by following one's fascinations and interests to see where they lead.

Also, lucid dream work also is the sort of work that makes them more likely: read extensively, practice nightly, keep a journal, work on various jumping-out techniques, that sort of thing: fun, entertaining, sometimes profound or disturbing or both, and produces useful skills and perspectives at times, or at least the realization: wow, there is some serious stuff out there, and the mind is way more tunable and malleable than I though it was.

Daniel
RE: How to have visions??
6/15/12 11:41 AM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
Aha, interesting! Thanks for the tips, Daniel. emoticon