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Hello. I have whole-heartedly been practicing the Actualism method exactly as I can up to the extent of my understanding. My single minded efforts in this direction have been in full swing for over a month with absolutely no major deviations. I have some practice questions which I would like to bring up. My practice is as follows and after that the questions.

For me after a month of effort, there is an actual pull towards naivete, a palpable experience. For example, when faced with a choice in my head, I can find this deeper middle ground between the two which is "naive", which is sometimes literally felt as a valley between these two choices in my head, and by embracing this valley, I am able to act from that point and there is a feeling of being freed of a burden. Another example of naivete which requires guts the first few times, was simply saying the truth about my thoughts or feelings in situations where I never had before (i.e. telling a person who I have worked with for a month that I don't want to borrow his knife because I would have to return it, and after all this time I still don't know where his office is. Normally this would be embarrassing, and I was feeling aversion to the situation, but instead of continuing to feel aversion, I just flat out told him naively what I felt. Instead of a negative reaction, he treated me with respect and told me where his office was).

As a result of this practice my actions are becoming more whole, I am less conflicted with many of my actions, I am learning and growing intelligent in ways that I used to not allow myself to be because I would never enter those situations before.

I am now incredibly eager to reveal myself, to be honest, to let people effect me directly, to tell the truth, to be accountable and to improve myself authentically where/whenever I can. I want to make all of my actions happy and harmless. I want to be happy and harmless 24/7. There is an incredible draw, and the method is so simple: naivete + happy and harmless.

This also leads to felicitous feelings. People benefit so much from my positive moods. For the past week I have been living an excellent life beyond anything I've allowed myself to before. I benefit from them liking me, they benefit by feeling better and having more energy. I've even become meticulous about my diet, and the time at which I eat and exercise, because I notice it's effect on my mood is rather strong. I no longer overeat or eat at the wrong time, and I do a cardio workout every day because I notice it allows me to add stability to my felicitous feelings. I can make these changes to my lifestyle, not for myself, but because I want to be at my best for other people.

Another point on my practice: the point right above the sex center on the surface of the skin has become a highly prized focus point for me. Whenever I practice meditation I usually use that point now and I will feel lots of pleasure and vibrating body sensations as parts of my body relax. It is fantastic in strainful situations on the fly, when sitting on the cushion, or when I get a bit of free time at work. It seems to relax the rest of the muscles in my body evenly (in other words, not just my right/left side or the top/bottom of the body) and I relax towards a natural posture.

The last point about my practice: When I do feel the need for formal meditation I simply let the mind relax and possibly use the point above the sex center (I think we need a name for it) as a focal point and eventually, effortlessly, my mind moves towards sensuousness. Then as long as I sit there I am inadvertently drawn to sensuousness. Several times my mind will naturally move to thoughts but it keeps on returning to sensuousness, kind of like how in equanimity nana one's mind never strays from the object for long. It feels very good and wholesome. Another notable point is that the times when I am (altruistically) motivated enough to do this practice it is because I notice that the feeling of the surface of the skin itself has these odd distortions that are the source of tension/frustration or memories of recent experiences or recent habits, etc. With a formal meditation sitting like how I described above these distorted surface tensions on the skin will naturally dissipate.

This is for the most part the only time sensuous takes a dominant role in my practice except for an hour most mornings when I go swimming, For that hour, free from social concerns, I go to enjoy myself and intentionally practice sensuousness.

Now I do have some concerns still. First a more superficial concern, and then I'll ask a more pressing one (to my mind).

The first question is: the great feelings I have had this past week has seemed too bizarrely similar to the A&P nana... yet I know it was a direct result of my cultivating felicitous feelings and purposely not pursuing the negative ones. The changes (towards naivete and happy/harmless, felicity) have been permanent and real and any deviation would simply be cheating myself. I plan to continue my practice, and I think I'm going to have to learn how to keep the felicitous feelings up while I go thru the dukka nanas. Or maybe not, but I've had such hellish times thru the dukka nanas so many times and so consistently that I think it is a legitimate concern. I have also noticed the phenomenon where caffeine makes me feel incredibly good/happy/bright, so I plan on using that if the need arises throughout the dukka nanas, if I should pass thru them.

How does the nanas express themselves while doing an actualism practice? I would like any answer you think would be helpful. Be naive, even if you don't have tons of experience (and neither do I) you still might know something I don't.

The more pressing concern to me is that I have more or less abandoned the sensuousness part of the practice except for the formal meditation and swimming I describe above. There is a pull towards naivete and happy/harmless. I don't feel the pull towards sensuous except when doing the sensuous meditation or for a few hours after the sensuous meditation. Frequently it will strike me as more altruistic to let the ego activity continue and to plan out or have conversations in my mind then to redirect my attention to sensuousness. In fact, forcing sensuous or inclining the mind towards sensuousness is irritating and frustrating. I keep looking for a way that sensuous is altruistic, because then I know that I will incorporate it immediately, but that's just not happening. Another reason I don't want to force it is because this mental activity I experience has positive benefits for other people*.

How is sensuousness altruistic? How does it relate to being happy and harmless? How does it relate to naivete?

I am now planning to do the sensuous meditation daily in the morning, because at least when sitting still on the cushion sensuous still seems wholesome and fulfilling and it has an afterglow that lasts a few hours.

I express my deepest gratitude in advance for any answers.

Oliver

*i.e. thinking about how I will act in certain situation, or trying to memorize info, orienting myself in a new place, etc . Unhelpful mental activity can quickly be discarded/not paid excessive attention to or if it is supper clingy the focus point above the sex center usually dissipates it quickly.

Such a massively encouraging account Olyver, thanks. I can relate to the increased honesty without as much angst. that point above the sex centre is called the dantien in some systems. we could call it the sub-naval innocence point. Just so we can use the acronym SNIP!

Just focus on the SNIP and you will feel happy and harmless.

SNIP and sweet spot it is then! I don't read any other threads on the DhO because I really need to focus on my practice right now, not anyone else's, so I might not catch new names or things like that anymore. Thanks for the good heads up.



Ahhh.. This would be the tricky part then, yes? Literally all of my method and practices have been situational, and you seem to hint that there is an intent that can be consistant over any state of mind or physical situation (?). If the pure intent is as pure as you seem to hint (untouched by any state) then I would imagine it would be just as fleeting as any one piece of sense datum.

There are quite a few states of mind I enter on a daily basis. I have not been able to find anything to apply consistently. Sensuous practice seems different from felicity practice seems different from naivete practice.



The question I pulled from this is: "How does my joy, excellency, and naivete come from sensuousness?" If for nothing else, this single thing has made my posting here worth it. This is something I can really, really work with. Thank you.



This is also very good. I think you are entirely correct ("What is important to notice during those reflections is chiefly the reason for reflecting"). This was a bit of a blind spot, and I'm going to go slowly down this train of thought so that I don't trip myself up. In the past, many thoughts I have had I have no qualm with since they seem happy and harmless. But what is the source of those thoughts? Knowing would be very beneficial.



Perfectly phrased. I will remind myself of these quotes later when I need them.


Thank you,

Oliver

SNIP was my attempt at humour, not serious...it actually is slightly uncomfortable to call it that..sorry mess with you there...

That's actually quite interesting. I recognize all 4 of those forms of sensuousness in my own practice, though I haven't thought to match it according to the nyana I'm in. I think the correlations are accurate, though. I'll keep these in mind and see if it helps inform my practice, which I think it will... thanks for pointing this out!

Wow. For a while it was incredibly hard for me to maintain the attentiveness part of the Actualism method. I just couldn't do it. I have since found a way! Here is my discovery:

Aypsite.org has a tip that talks about kechari mudra, which is basically pressing the tongue against the roof of the mouth. I can press the tongue up there near the front of the mouth (so the tip of the tongue is touching my front teeth) and I feel the pressure pushing thru the little bone in the nose and up to the third eye area. It starts to pump all kinds of pleasure and relaxation thru out my body. It's enhanced a dramatically if I furrow my eyebrows slightly and wear a big stupid grin.

I think I may have struck gold with my felicity practice. It's been three days and I can feel good anytime, anywhere. I prefer places where I can smile openly, but it's somewhat awkward to smile all the time with some of the people I work with. I do my best tho and its not uncommon for me on the bus to stick my face in the nook of my elbow, hide my head, and wear this big-ass grin in order to feel all this pleasure surging thru my body.

Attentiveness and sensuousness have skyrocketed!

Although I've been cutting the fernum under my tongue, I'm not quite far enough to go over the top of the palate and touch the spot up there. I meant just lifting the tongue above where it normally sits to touch the teeth and palate right by them. Nothing fancy. I feel the pressure go up that little bone in the nose between and behind the nostrils (you can see it on a skull like in science class) and the pressure continues up until I feel it in the sinuses in the forehead. Frequently I feel glows and warm feelings there or elsewhere in the body.

EDIT: I think the key to the bliss I found is in the sensitivity I had. Not long ago I would have been able to press the tongue to the roof of my mouth and nothing would happen. But I had been doing a neti wash, like on aypsite, and I would purposely develop a sensitivity to my sinuses all around my head and the little muscles and ways to relax them (you see, I had always had lots of sinus problems growing up, so I had figured my sinuses needed a lot of sensitivity to make up for years of karma)

Later on, when I finally pressed my tongue up to my palate, I had sensitized the sinuses in the nose and forehead enough that I could feel that slight pressure path I described above (thru the little bone between the nostrils up, past the little sinus on both sides of the bridge of the nose, and to the third eye area). This little pressure path and the sensitivity around it allowed me to push with different degrees of pressure and feel the difference in the third eye area. Sensitizing this area, esp the thrid eye area, I think was the key. It doesn't take much pressure at all to get the sensations. Sometimes I just rest the tongue there without any effortful pushing and I still get the pleasant sensations.

---

Here is my little question of the day which has been on my mind...

Why is it sometimes when attentive there are pleasant sensations and sometimes there are unpleasant sensations?


Sometimes attentiveness/sensuousness seems like a punishment and I want to stop it. I'm usually also aware of lots of body tensions during this time. I can't figure out exactly WHY it is such a torturous experience.

At other times I feel like I can follow all these little pleasant sensations and I'm quite happy. Or I feel a wide awareness that is sensuousness and by being attentive I can never do anything wrong or feel any negativity, even if I wanted to!

Both sensations feel like I can't do anything about them. Either I can't leave this torturous, unpleasant existence, or I find it impossible to feel or do any negativity, even if I'm being chewed out hard-core by my superiors at work. Sometimes I wonder if they really even feel bad even though they are acting upset. The only reason I even acted humble and wore a straight face in front of them is because it was logically the right thing to do in the situation. I could just have easily have smiled the whole time, and at the same time and absorbing their advice and formulating ways I can do my job better.

Isn't that ironic?

At other times i CAN feel negative vibes from someone, which seems to indicate a deep personal hurt, but they don't affect me negatively. Its just an awareness that this other person is feeling hurt/negative/bad.

Oliver

Ah. Good tip. Now I differentiate between attentiveness/sensuousness and the other disturbing/disruptive phenomena. A place of peace among the storm. Thank you for pointing that out.

Also, this post made a difference to me, and since this is my practice journal I'm going to add it in



Thats what most of life is, isn't it? Just giving our suffering a bunch of heads, like a hydra. Making it complicated.

Now I just want to find the REAL hydra head, the only one that ever really was there. And I want to find the REAL source, and the REAL cure to suffering. No more false heads. Some parts of me still doesn't know how sensuousness is the cure for my suffering. I can think it intellectually, but I've got to give my body and being some evidence so that it knows it is real. Beoman, you did just that with your advice. But I'm still working on it.

If I don't find a cure and gain the motivation to pursue a real cure, then I will keep on looking habitually at other phenomenon.

Oliver

Thanks.

Useful pointers.

I don't think I see what the real problem is or what the real solution is (to these feelings I am).

But sensuous is nice. I can feel my body relaxing. At least that is pleasant and logical enough to continue...

I think I mostly continue practicing out of a deep existential need rather than anything else. Just vauge dissatisfaction and a super-ego that says "I should, I should"...

This isn't what Richard on AF is talking about when he says that stubborness is required at certain parts of the Actualism path, is it? I always imagined he meant stubborness with a feeling of indignance and lots of energy... As if he knew what he was actually doing. Not this.

There is kind of an soothing satisfaction as I continue tho... It's not unpleasant by a long shot.

Oliver

I'm going to post something from my journal and edit it a bit. The context might elude the reader, but I think that many of the lessons might still strike a chord. I will attempt to make it as understandable as possible:



I can't believe how well I am handling. I ate shittly yesterday, still had two awsome phone calls, took action to take care of a personal need. Didn't waste sex energy.

In fact, I think I had a huge breakthru with something in the chest area. Frustration dominated with my relationship with *lady-friend*, but I didn't respond or try and do anything different about/to it. Instead I made reasonale actions (try help myself) and never lost my cool much, except for one text. And then I learned to accept the frustration and the frustration went away... This morning I felt a huge spaciousness with a auburn wave blessing my chest area... I almost didn't notice it. There were not boundries between the wave of auburn and the space...

And now I am still being super intelligent with *lady-friend* and stuffs... yesterday was hard because I was still acting off of somatic tensions and they were a barriar to... to what I wanted [edit: intimacy with my experience]. So now those same identifications to somatic tensions are there, but less so.

Makes me have a bit of conceptual faith in the buddhas teaching that healing and enlightenment comes from the noticing of the arising and passing away. My experience with the SSG yesterday (when I was triggered into a deeper state of awareness of who I am/what I am doing/etc.) made me see clearly the arising and passing away of large chuncks of phenomena.. and the impulse to fall asleep again. I understood and now can work my way back.

At the same time, there seems to be an intelligence deeper than the somatic tensions, and the emotions, and emotional reasoning. Something idependant of that, that also seems connected to 'attentiveness'. Like I would hit little points of truth at moments of attentiveness. something like that.

EDITED one point^

What is internal to me?

See, that's something that bothers me. I don't think that I truely understand on a deep level what I need to do. All teachings are conceptual. I have trouble following them because they don't seem internal to me (if I understand you properly). I feel like I am floundering... but by foundering I'm also not trying to hard to go in any direction- so part of me is settling in and "not trying" and its fascinating to just rest and see things (like my suffering) happening on it's own. The other part of me feels like I'm not doing enough to relieve my suffering.

I've been off of my physical exercise rountine for the past week and I see the difference, too. Much more suffering. It's also fascinating how my normal daily actions (llike diet, exersize, how mush alone time I get) have huge impacts on my sense of self and my spiritual practices (like sensuality, attentiveness, mindfulness). It's really irritating to see myself acting at a lower level than I know I am capable of, especially for my girlfriend.



As far as your inquiries into intelligence.. I think that is fascinating... It's interesting. I think that I am intelliegent when I feel intelligent- and when I am capable and meeting all my standards and expectations. I think I see how different levels of intelligence at different "depths" could really all be missing the point ("the point" being an enlightened perspective). But if I am exercising, doing my work, and stepping it up in all my activites, then I tend to make better choices (by society's standards). I think that is real.

The phrase "acting off" meant that with my inner-vision I could percieve muscle tensions (somatic) which compulsed me to act in certain ways and that prevented me from being truely intimate with my experience and I equate this with not being intelligent. I don't feel "perfect", I don't feel "excellent", I don't feel any of these posistive things when too wrapped up and identified with these tensions.

It seems to me that I've been acting off of these kinds of tensions for all my life now. I see suffering everywhere, in my whole field of consciousness. This has happened before, but now I'm a bit more equanimous with it. In fact, my feelings of "floundering" are almost like I'm giving up trying to do anything with it. Does that mean I should stop trying to do anything with the suffering or should I do more spiritual practices? If the former, then I need not change anything. Otherwise...?

Just this morning I noticed how sensuousness relieves me of some suffering (it would take me away from the suffering which is in mental proliferation). Thus I was able to see it as alturistic and thus do it more often. Maybe I'm the only one on this board, but I still seem stuck on needing something to be alturisitc to do it. Seeing something as altruistic solves my issue of "understanding on a deep level what I need to do"...

P.S. Your responses are very valuable to me. Thank you

Hi Olyver,

I am my own best teacher. This holds if I am my own best student.* What are my thoughts and feelings, what urges give rise to them as elaborations? What renders them something substantial or conclusive? Self-preservation is a tremendous urge, for example. Anxious narratives are examples of elaborations. What of the basic mental faculty when its preservation is not at risk - is it blank, is it curious, is it engaged and/or quietened and/or content more or less to what it afferently receives without the static of urges and elaborations?

I exist at this moment in current affairs and environments. What aspects of me would be more or less acceptable in another era? What aspects of other eras and environments would be more acceptable to me?

Considering the modern environ in which I am situated and how I react to /embrace it, perhaps I, then (or simultaneously), have studied mind and agency in meditation to see the bare aspects of being, how even meager stimuli register by the awareness aspect of the mental faculty (respiration, heart rate, physical urges (such as organ and joint tensions), thought and feeling urges of habituation) and are given to elaborations through other aspects of the mental faculty (the analytical, creative, discursive, desirous, and so forth).

Now seeing oneself in one's time and seeing oneself amid bare stimuli, free to write here & now and perhaps having other relative freedoms of personal agency (relative to other sentients who have minimal free expression of their agency), what is suffering? What is life? Feel free to describe your suffering to yourself in great detail or here if it helps. A great utility is to see the urges and elaborations and determine if those are required and/or how/when/why.

To your concern for altruism: in my limited experience, being aware (mindful, sensate) and noting personal urges and elaborations results in understanding the urges and elaborations of others. This growing understanding can result in more apt responses to now more familiar urges and elaborations; this understanding may also result in altruism. If I don't know me, basic awareness as well as additional urges and elaborations on those urges, then my efforts for others may be ignorant and haphazard.

Your thoughts?


*This does not dispose of helpful guides and companions in this simple but challenging self-study, which guides and companions who offer these simple guidances freely would benefit their own well-being simultaneously and efficiently).

Practice notes, Jan 19, 2012

I have been aware of how I am not aware of what I am doing in the exact moment but am aware of it a second later when "i" am doing something esle (perhaps busy being aware of what I was not aware of). I thought that I would play a game and see if I could tell how long the space is between this. This led me to see almost a black line between the "doer" and awareness of it (the time lapse itself to the phenomena I described above).

So this black line I saw, after seeing it clearly, seemed to cause a path moment around the same time (by my definition of a path moment, ala MCTB (described later)). This black line also happened to physically be located in the spine area around the mid-upper rib cage, going up the spine, possibly to mid-brain.

Later, while doing a heart opening exercise which involves using awareness to trace the spine from the heart center to the mid brain, and then out the third eye (http://www.aypsite.org/220.html), I was aware of how somehting pure is located just beyone the third eye center. A yellow happiness spaciousness, that seemed pure and I could bring it down lower.

Then, during that practice I was able to see how there are all forms of muscle tensions and vedana all thru and around that mental path I was tracing along the spine, and by taking time and going smoothy I could find and sense the shape of the vedanas and they would pass away. It was pleasant, and I got the idea into my head that if I could clear away the vedana in the path that goes between mid-brain and the heart that it would help. There are still clouds of vedana all throughout the area.


A path moment might be defined as a blip (fruition) followed by a remarkable effortless ability to see closer to the "source" of ones siffering/paranoia/unhappiness.

Would this be a good definition of a path moment to all you folk who use this term?

Oliver

If you are not aware of what you are (physically?) doing in an exact moment, could you be ruminating (mentally) at that moment?

What I find happens is: when mental ruminations end (and I understand these ruminations as stages of insight in the buddhist-framed knowledges (dissolution,fear,misery,disgust,desire, re-ob)), then mindfulness to what-is-happening-now happens naturally (this is like concentration falling into place without any straining for it). That mindfulness of a) what-is-now has a quality of lens to it for a while (i.e., Observer observing being mindful) - and this mental-perspective-without-ruminations can also feel like happiness or pleasure welling up or being uncovered (because the ruminations have ceased/been removed), then that lens dissipates, and there remains no self-conscious lens, just b) what-is-now (and the happiness-feeling dissipates into further clarity and happiness itself is seen to have its tension). The hook of mental ruminations (especially the knowledges of suffering listed in series above, in parentheses) has strong tension to it, while the lens-view (e.g., observer, doer) has mild tension to it (even as "happiness" dissolves into more tranquility), and the no-lens has no surfeit mental tension to it (though I do still experience distinct sensations (e.g., headache) here as a result of, say, some infection, change in air pressure, etc).

As to this heart opening exercise you linked: breath opens the chest and stretches the intercostal muscles. If one is practicing some form of breathing mindfulness and chooses the thoracic cavity (versus the space at the nostils above the upper lip, as in anapanasati), then mindfulness collects in the chest/heart area. Mindfulness is a focusing (concentration) that naturally will dispel mental ruminations (though ruminations first may augment and target the area of mindfulness as well, which is why I think the spot at the lip-nostril is recommended (in order to keep the intensity of a ruminating mind out of the heart area))...and, again, when those ruminations cease, a pleasant feeling can be felt,seem to be uncovered and to expand significantly.

It may go further/wider/beyond still.
this is like walking - just takes time-in and clarity consumes the uses of ones energy versus cluttering (here I am still much in clutter, but the effect is quite apparent and magnetizes me to its furtherance).***

I think this is an understandable description. It becomes harder to repeatedly go to that source with the new awareness of the problems it causes, so the fetter is naturally trimmed-severed over some time.

***Edit: the path you describe from mid-brain to heart will disappear when what feels pleasant becomes very expansive, like a snowstorm consumes an old trail through the snow.

Thank you for the reply.

The practice I have been doing in my daily life is to ask "What am I doing?" instead of HAIETMOBA. This "What am I doing?" has allowed me to disidentify greatly from my normal sense of "I". The point has been to disidentify, and it's been amazing and boosting felicity levels... In this practice I am being sensuous to "being" as much as anything from the five senses. In other words, I don't mean physically, but what the "I" is doing and in what context. The context is a layer added on to the 5 senses which helps me identify the "I" in the moment and what it is doing.

It also seems close to what Daniel Ingram seemed to be saying in another thread where he very clearly defined what 4th path was. Something clicked, and I seemed to know exactly what he was talking about. He said something like "the problem is now knowing what you are doing as you are doing it" or something.I will find the link later....

I look forward to meeting the folks in london meetu-up on the 22nd and then the folks in providence meet-up on the 27th! This is a phenomenal opportunity! Pure luck has offered me the change to be at both! Thank you everyone!

EDIT: Here is the promised link: http://dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/2715189

Hiya.

It seems people find the question to ask themselves which uncovers their autonomy. Albert Camus' question was something like, "[There's only one truly philosophical question, and that is suicide. Everything else is secondary until that is addressed.]" To me, this is like resolving if one is willing to be "here". If I am willing to be here, I have to be completely willing and find [be] the way of life that enables that, otherwise I would be sitting on the fence, a figurative on-going suicide of being, unwillingly. To rule out such fence-sitting is truly wonderful.
See you in RI.

edit: bold, bracket

i know i posted about it before, but thank you for posting about it again! i started taking 800mg a day (400mg twice a day) and i feel fantastic. just in such a better mood. great stuff. don't know if i can attribute it only to that but it certainly seems to have had an effect

yea i wonder if meditating in particular is what makes it so effective - like your brain makes better use of the serotonin cause of the approach to life. then again other times it hasn't seemed to accomplish that much so i donno. but it does seem like if i meditate in a wrongly-focused way my 'being' becomes dried up, rattling, very hard, with little room allowed in the painful loops for anything but more painful looping, and after taking 5-htp it seems like there is some wetness/coolness that comes into it, kind of like one's thirst is being slaked constantly, and it's so much easier to take a laid-back easy-going approach to it all ...

reflecting on this is also perhaps a lesson on causality.. if taking a few little pills helps practice so much, just goes to show how not-in-my-control practice is.

hah awesome article, too:

Maybe they will eventually figure out that 'being' is a severe neurodegenerative disorder, but luckily one that can be cured!

That sounds like hell... Hmm... I wonder if I was experiencing some of that two days ago? I thought it was something else...
But then again, even if you attribute those experiences to serotonin toxicity, and it sounds like the typical symptoms, we still doing know what other factors could have caused it...

I have used the 5-htp as an appetite suppressant for a day fast before with my normal dosage of around 750-1000 and felt completely amazing all day.. On the other hand I actually DO take the vitamin b6 supplements. That could have made the difference. I am cutting it down to 750mg a day now tho and attempt to hold 'er steady there.

How do you feel today? I personally have the take that sometimes the body feels very sick and uncomfortable in periods of purification. Do you feel healthier/cleaner/purified today or was it just a really crappy night?

Interesting... If you don't want to eat why should you? I'm curious what your reasoning is. I've gone over 5 days water fasting with no calorie intake and I did pretty well. I would offer that the body is quite capable of living without food for a while.

Practice update..

Well... I seem to be going thru a fairly tough time....
And it's so curious. I don't understand everything that's happening.

Just being present requires some sort of "emotional quality" or intention that is separate from one's concepts... For me this quality of being present manifests most easily with the intention to be 'gentle' or 'delicate' with my experience and/or 5 senses.

I found the Venerable Ayya Khema's way of phrasing the 4 Noble Truths useful. She said something like:

1. What's the problem?
2. What's the cause?
3. What's the solution?
3. What's the way to the solution?

Well... the problem is disastisfaction, the cause is "Being", and the way to the solution seems to be "thinning out Being" and the way to the way to the solution itself seems to be maintaining a 24/7 'gentle' orientation to the senses. Being gentle and delicate to my experience (and senses) makes some sense, since that carefulness is required to find some insight into my habitual reactions. No good being blunt and aggressive, better to be attentive and intimate with my blunt and aggressive and thus see into the cracks, or find the "shape" of the emotional content as Daniel Ingram suggests occasionally.

On another note, I seem to be very... equanimious? Emotionless? Cautious? Not excitable?
But fortunately not fearful, which seems to be a nice thing... My seeker and my paranoid sides seemed to have calmed down to a gentle simmer. Still there. Still strong. But I'm not as identified with them. They got bad for a while there. Gentleness seems to help.

But the thing is that my motivation for intense practice is crappy, and I will cycle between not motivated to have times where I am more involved with the intense practice and I make a breakthru. That's not what I want. I want 24/7 sensuous/attentiveness..

Where does one find the motivation? What is the cause? I found it again today, so I'm in a good position to find the cause and effect. When it's gone, I'm afaid of just sitting there and having a super-ego saying "Do this! youre not trying hard enough!" and then only put in a weak effort (as this is what happens on the crappy end of the cycle,)?



So to reiterate the Four Noble Questions:

What is the problem? - Lack of motivation for intense practice which will bring about 24/7 sensuous and attentiveness.
What is the cause? - the cause of GOOD motivation is sustained by the emotional intention to be attentive/sensuous
What is the Solution - Find a way to ground in that emotional intention
What is the way to the solution - ???*


I know my logic is a little haphazard, but this seems workable.



Other notes from today's practice:
Today I noticed there is somehow a HUGE resistance to just being present without a purpose and just be sensuous.... I notice it now, which is good! Because before I used to act on it. Now I just notice it, and get quite a bit more sensuous time in (simultaniously).

Also tons of the tension around my head has been relieved. There is still some near my throat and chest, but I'm surviving. It's not too bad.


Woo! lots of interesting stuffs this post.

Oliver

Well, I remember when I was younger and was sick and didn't want to eat anything, my parents would make me eat, cause I had to to help me get better. I think this was an internalization of that logic. But isn't that speaking to your point? What if to keep my body healthy I have to eat, and the affective disgust of eating is what should be ignored?

I'm not sure which it is, yet. I think I'll survive somehow, either way =p.

Well...
Thank you everyone at the DhO meet-up. Sorry I haven't posted till now. I'm going to jot down a few notes about my experiences and practices lately.

The biggest thing I took from the DhO meet up and meeting with people is.... Well... Basically there is no reason ever for any reason that could be thought of to ever feel self-conscious. What a kind of relief this was too. I was living life as if I was never self-conscious about my actions or body language from the end of the DhO meet on.. and then I was at the airport, which is a hot spot for paranoia, and I just sort of realized... I don't have to be self-conscious or nervous about what people think. Ever. Just need to be calm, awake, and aware.

It is unbelievably easier if I manage to tap into an awareness of the 5 senses as a field. When aware of the five senses as a field, one is less identified with their narrative and one gets the feeling that, hey, I am aware of what there is to be aware of! I can't read your thoughts, so why be nervous about it! I'm aware of what there is to be aware of, which happens to be the 5 senses. From a subtle perspective, it's like I'm not aware of a person, I'm aware of my senses! What a huge relief - as I rather dislike dealing with people sometimes, but I don't mind being aware of my senses- thus in some odd way, it's like the problem where I don't like dealing with people is gone! This makes it easier to deal with strangers and stressful situations involving people. And it has brought about a sort of unconditional happiness.



The next big thing I took from the DhO meet was some advice I got from Tarin. I explained my current mode of experience to him a bit like this:

In any one instant, life is like this:

1) "I" >>>>(looking at/interacting with)>>>>> Thing I am aware of

But the catch is- I am not aware of the "I" who is "looking at/interaction with" the thing I am aware of. If I'm really honest and looking at a close level, the closest I can come is like this:

1) "I" >>>>(looking at/interacting with)>>>>> Thing I am aware of
2) "I" >>>>(looking at/interacting with)>>>>> the "I" that existed last instant
3) "I" >>>>(looking at/interacting with)>>>>> the "I" that existed last instant
4) etc.

So in this way, I can become aware of "I", but only an instant after it has happened. There is a very definite time gap between each "I". One of the pieces of advice I got was to notice the sensations in the gap, which from previous glimpses I can say with surety are IGNORANCE. Once it's seen, there is not more ignorance, and the problem is gone, yes? This seems so easy. My work is very much cut out for me.

Now... I first noticed this phenomenon, in which I am not aware of the present "I" at the same time as the object I am observing, when I was asking the question "What am I doing?". I was never aware of what I was doing until the moment passed, then I had to be quick to notice what I was doing the next moment (since it was always new and unpredictable).

Likewise, when I ask HAIETMOBA, I run into the same problem. I don't know how "I" am experiencing this moment of being alive since I am not aware of "I"!!!!!! I run into this experience of bafflement when I ask that question a lot! Because I honestly don't know! However I can know how I was experiencing this moment one instant ago! Which is almost as good as knowing how I am experiencing this moment right now, and somewhat revealing when when one realizes that is the case.

So in this fashion, since HAIETMOBA is inquiring into the source of experiencing ("I" for us unenlightened folk, or an ever present presence for those with some insight), then HAIETMOBA IS a vipassana technique in that it digs away at the
the "I" which is the cause of suffering pre-MCTB 4th path. Especially so when one truely takes into account the 'how am I experiencing' part of HAIETMOBA.

My understanding, which I think was confirmed by someone who is post-4th path (he nodded when I asked in a vague way ), is that being able to see both the "I" and the object of observation in the same moment is the same as the post-4th path experience. And thats easy and desirable to do! No unnecessary wasted effort is needed when it is put so clearly.

The other advice I got which is aimed at getting this ever present and self-aware awareness, is to just see objects where they are and that's it. Seeing the observer where it is, seeing the observed where it is, which brings a nice stillness and self-assurance to experience.

Thanks again everyone!
Merry meet, merry part, and merry meet again!
Oliver

Hey Claudio

What I'm talking about probably isn't even an issue for you, but it was for me, so here's a bit of my take on it in case it ever comes up for you in the future...

When dealing with the five hinderences, how is the hindrance of sensual pleasure most aptly dealt with? Ancient monks would use the disgust as a way to detach from otherwise pleasant objects. Likewise, the vissudhimagga suggests that a certain type of monk constantly bring to mind the undesirable aspect of objects that normally bring lust (such as a good looking body of the opposite sex or food), and that this would be an apt practice for one who easily gets attached to the good. Not saying you are. I am, and I did that meditation for a while with good results (I quit a lite porn habit about a year ago) .

Does disgust seem to have it's pleasant side to it when one gives the disgust a full acceptance? Has one tried identifying with the pleasantness and letting the disgust work it's magic on it's own? Kind of funny to think about disgust having a natural effect on the brain, but when that pleasant feeling of acceptance is there, I think it really does.

Oliver

I'm arguing that a person can only be aware of the object of meditation, which is always present when one is aware of it. So how does one not have present moment awareness when aware of an object of meditation? How does one 'fabricate' a present moment awareness? Why would one look for that present moment awareness in the past? Do you have a present moment awareness right now? I think linguistics might be playing games with our communication. One just has to look at an object of meditation or whatever is in front of them and they are present again.

I guess I'm a little confused. Do you agree with what I just said?

If so, then I would take it one step further. Once one has a clear awareness of the object of meditation, then one can go to a noting practice (using HAIETMOBA) where one notes how one is feeling over and over again. That was what I was illustrating in my little diagram above. One is still present, if only for the fact that they have to actively be engaged with each new moment that comes up.

Do you agree with this?

Next take it one step further. In any moment when one is noting, they have the possibility of noting the sensations that happened one second ago.

right?

One step further: when noting like this, we can note something we weren't aware of the previous moment, even tho it happened, which is the person/intention/point of view/drive which was noting the previous moment. Then one has to note again and not get hung up thinking about what they just noticed (since this is a noting practice). Its all very subtle, and I believe this was the point of noting practice from the start- to be aware of ourself and things we didn't notice before.

When one becomes aware of the 'doer' and the 'object' at the same time then one has 4th path consciousness.

Oooo! Okay. I see what you are saying.

Yes, I've run into that phenomenon, if we are really talking about the same thing. It's like a different quality of awareness that has a distinct "I am now here" feel to it, as opposed to times when one might be spacing out.

I totally see how one could be taking a fabricated present moment awareness and not really have that "I am now here" feel to it. One just kind of lives in a delusion where one thinks they do.. That would be a bit irritating

Another observation is that that state itself can be noted and seen to arise and pass away. I have had experiences where this kind of awareness bonded with other less mindful states of awareness by noticing the three characteristics and it was quite blissful.




I think we are on the same page now. The only thing is, that I believe I am really noticing the qualities that were there one second ago because they never left! I was able to keep it in awareness without interfering with it (by noticing the three characteristics, which allowed it to continue on it's own without me interfering (no self, impermanence). I'd be afraid that if I started looking out for me making stuff up, then that paranoia becomes a platform for more chances of me making it up (as in, did I really see that?). In fact! This is EXACTLY what I think the fetter of doubt is! In 4th path, one would be positive of the things they see without doubt.



Nick is talking about Being here, not the "I". The "I" in that scenario is implied in the "looking" for the experience of being (an implied self "looking" for an object), which I would assume he was aware of the "I" the whole time (he knew he was looking, AND if he was post-fourth path, he was aware he was looking at the same time he was looking)



That bounce Nickolai is talking about is between sensations and the brain spot, which is different from "I" and object. When I am doing this noting practice I have been describing there is no blinking out of awareness, just new awareness of objects that arose in the last moment, but weren't recognized until this one. Using the term "moments" seems to imply that they are distinct, but I'm keeping in touch with a deeper spacious reality while it is happening, so there is no experience of "moments".

Thank you for that quote too. That is quite interesting about the link to mid-brain.


I'm pretty confident and don't need much more convincing. I think that having an awareness of both "this" and "that" at the same time would be the only way to see Being clearly. It's not like I'm trying to see something new, or something that isn't there. I just want to see ALL of reality all at once.

With intrigue and gratitude,
Oliver

Nice! I think of 'vipassana' primarily as a quality of mind. That makes a lot of sense in this model. 'Vipassana' orients one 'backwards', while 'wonder' and 'naivety' orients one forwards; investigative attention and anticipatory attention.



I understood Nick's quote as dropping a piece of hot coal. If you go looking for suffering, you'll find it, possibly fabricate it. If you don't go looking for it, at least you won't run the risk of fabricating any suffering. So Nick's insight was that by looking for trouble, he had created some in the process of looking for it, and by not looking for it anymore it went away. I'm sure Nikolai can clarify.


I think Nick experienced the brain spot as the main cluster of sensations implying 'I', so I don't agree that brain spot <-> sensation is different from 'I' <-> object. Again, Nikolai might clarify


Thanks for sharing about the Kechari Mudra, Oliver.

Ah, I think I know what you mean. To that I'd say: do qualities persist for an entire second? If it seems like they do, have you tried looking at the same quality twice or thrice a second? Is it exactly the same each time, or does it change slightly according to causality, or does it disappear entirely and re-appear entirely each time, according to causality?

I see contemplative/insight practice in general as a kind of a way to run up and down the chain of D-O, either a small part, or the entire thing. Based on what you're looking for, you can watch how things compound into other things (seeing how a feeling arises, then how an inchoate sense of 'me' forms out of that, then how thoughts and beliefs form out of that, compounding it further, etc...) or you can watch how things fade to reveal the subtler elements (thoughts and beliefs stopping, revealing the inchoate sense of 'me', which, when watched closely with the expectation (garnered from insight) that it will fade, reveals the feeling underneath, etc...)

So it seems, in a sense, that you can 'backtrack' to see what was going on a few seconds ago - what you're doing is re-winding D-O a little by watching the sensations carefully, then it seems like the same sensations pop up again (cf. review cycling, you go from A&P to Dissolution to Fear, and feel afraid, then up the rest of the cycle, fruition, back to A&P, Dissolution, Fear, and then you're afraid 'again'). But, I don't think it is the same sensations (the same Fear), just similar conditions producing similar sensations (which similarity is only understood cause of short- or long-term memory, or mindfulness in other words).

Either way, the important thing is to see how 'I' am simply constructed from other conditions. Seeing that clearly, that kind of 'I' will stop being constructed... repeat until no more 'I' is constructed.


You are making all of it up anyways so no need to worry about that =P.

I see your point, though. Just look to see how all of it is causal, based on certain other conditions, down to the most elemental level (ignorance --> formations).


I think so long as there is ignorance (and hence, 'being'), there will be doubt.. but 4th path certainly does seem to provide some confidence in one's abilities.

Kechari Mudra! Wowza.

I've more or less had my tongue resting above the soft pallet as much as possible for days... It's sooooooo nice. It will take about 3-4 minutes before I get a pleasure rush. There is actually no need to poke and prod with the tongue, I believe the main action happens when the tongue is merely resting up there and pulling the soft pallet forward. When it pulls the soft pallet forward it also pulls on the skin around the back of the throat in a particular direction that alleviates pressure in the Sphenoidal Sinuses AND creates ease and eases pressure from the base of the skull from the inside. It also will stimulated the whole surface of the skin in the nasal cavity, up to and including the third eye area. Fresh oxygen also flushes the sinus and helps the brain think clearer too.

I seriously suspect that I am stimulating some serious Dopamine levels with this practice. I feel like I'm being rewarded when I practice for these extended periods of time and my choices concerning pleasure have become far, far, far more in tune with my real needs and my environment (as in, I am no longer seeking dopamine rewards from my environment with food and such based on illusions about my needs or unwanted urges). I noticed this the first time I did long term kechari two posts ago. I no longer get any physical hunger urges EVER unless I actually need food. No more munchies or any other such sensations! The catch is, that I will feel those things if my tongue isn't resting above the pallet, so all I do when I feel hungry is stick my tongue above the pallet and it's like a litmus test for whether I really need food or not. I know within a few seconds. I also become very aware of the back of my tongue (the large thick part at the base) when I do this test. It's very soothing.

I admire Tommy and a few other people who are doing practice threads about things that work for them and not giving a crap if it falls into any sort of proper tradition. Consider my thread as one of those. I will put in the crazy stuff that works and not care if it doesn't for someone else, or even if it is counter culture to the DhO.

Best mudra ever.

http://www.dhammatalks.org/Archive/Writings/wings_complete_v111219.pdf

"The Wings to Awakening" - Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Another thing I never mentioned about Kechari Mudra is that it loosened up all sorts of muscle knots in my neck to a phenomenal degree, mainly the base of the skull and all down to the collar bone. I think it may be the case that I was just very "ripe" for this practice (and thus not everyone is ripe and may not get the same sort of sensations I get), but nonetheless it is very powerful.

I was flirting with my lady-friend and doing all sorts of playful actions that normally would involve some sense of desire, however the entire experience was almost a flat-line spacious awareness, and I was quite happy and felicitous. This happened for hours. I was aware however, that whatever sense of frustration arose (sexual or otherwise) was already where it was before hand (I just gained a new awareness of a previously existing phenomenon), and she wasn't increasing the frustration (which is something that used to happen to me when I got in romantic relationships) nor was I under the illusion that she could be the one to relieve me of frustration. Ironic, but it made the experience that much more pleasurable, especially since I was making objective choices for the most part and thus keeping a sort of integrity to myself. There was all the benefits of intimacy without losing awareness in desire for outcomes (in other words, desire for outcomes blocks out awareness).

Oliver

Edit: Here is a nifty link. My own personal opinions of the material in the website are going unsaid right now. Only what I have said so far in this thread is what I mean. I do however like the animation in the middle. Just watching it sends shivers down my spine.

http://thekundaliniprocess.blogspot.com/2010/05/kechari-mudra.html

Taken from http://www.aypsite.org/108.html

I had been doing tantra practices with my lady friend and there really is something more to kechari. I also strongly feel that if I had not been cultivating sexual energy by not wasting semen that I would not get the benefits of kechari. Not wasting semen seems to add strength to my bones, literally and figuratively. Kechari seems to provide all that pleasure I might have lost from those orgasms and let it course thru my body.

For some reason I much prefer a life where my body is physically pulsing with pleasure than any sort of psychological "insight", spiritual insight, or freedom from suffering. I prefer staying in this moment, if that's okay, thanks.

Ditto what Katy said: I'm enjoying this thread.

RE kechari mudra, I've been working with this a little since you mentioned it. Oddly enough, I recall doing this spontaneously years ago. I don't recall the context or inspiration. After coming back to it I seem to be addicted

cheers,

Matt

In response to katy:

Yes! Those bullet points sounds a bit like karma. When one realizes they are acting off of these chained-by-cause-and-effect* internally-felt-events** then it would be quite natural to want to intervene and get on a better path, yes? And isn't it sooo pleasing to follow one's own inner common sense? Even if not, if one wants to make spiritual progress, does one really have a choice but to follow ones inner common sense?

Thats a bit of a different paradigm of spiritual progress than we are used to on this board, but I put it forward none-the-less. It's still about clearing out one's psyche of suffering contaminants, but done so thru taking action in the world. Not taking initiative in the real world is identical to hiding behind barriers inside one's mind. Magnimity is the only spiritual progress there is. Full exertion, full understanding, deep self-reflection. That is my spiritual path. AF be damned.


Oliver

*adjective
**noun