Discussion Forum Discussion Forum

Practice Logs

Jason's Practice Journal

Jason's Practice Journal
Answer
2/16/12 4:14 PM
Hello,

I've been keeping a thread at KFD which kind of ran aground because I felt I was just recording the same experiences over and over again. Thought I might get a fresh perspective here.

A very brief background: My A+P experiences mostly came about 15 years ago. Still haven't figured out which was the first. I can remember a near-death experience, some psychedelics, lucid dreams that were more real than real life, a shaktipat initiation... various experiences seemed to meet the criteria. Certainly, the aftereffects could be described as a dark night, although I really wasn't practicing much at the time. There was plenty of misery, feelings of futility, hyperawareness of mortality; fear and anxiety. For a long time. You know the drill.

About ten years ago, I did a couple of Goenka retreats, in which I can remember having a lot of body pains, raptures, feeling of everything dissolving into energy. But I still didn't manage to establish a practice.

Then I read MCTB and found these forums. Seeing that there was an actual goal in sight gave me the impetus I needed to really engage with a meditation practice. Also, it has become increasingly clear that I can't quite function without it.

So, last summer I started noting. After a short start-up period, I seemed to enter into long, placid, pain-free sits, with little to no emotional content. I generally experience strong energetic sensations at the forehead and crown. This has been pretty consistent for about 6 months. I usually sit 1-3 hours per day. This has been discussed recently here: Stagnating in EQ?

All insights welcome and appreciated. emoticon

RE: Jason's Practice Journal
Answer
2/17/12 9:12 AM as a reply to Some Guy.
Just a short sit this morning. Took a while to get concentrated, knowing I was pressed for time. Noted tingling sensations, thoughts and images for about ten minutes. Then I settled into a relatively quiet, spacious mind state, very comfortable, but was still prone to distraction. After a few minutes of that, somewhat deeper concentration kicked in, seemingly of its own accord, and the meditation became more effortless. More quiet, more spaciousness, more tingling at forehead and crown (and for a minute at the root chakra). Warmth at the heart center. I sought to objectify the watcher, not finding it per se, settled on the sensations at the back of the head, and, for lack of a better word, a sense of centerlessness. (I find that if I really root around for the self, I just tense up.)

I don't feel like I quite got to the edge of my practice in this sit, although it's more or less representative.

RE: Jason's Practice Journal
Answer
2/17/12 4:20 PM as a reply to Some Guy.
Good to see you're getting a practice thread going, hopefully you'll find what you're looking for.

Well, going by your descriptions of your previous practice and your current sits it's safe to say that you're not in Equanimity. You're getting into A&P territory but not crossing it yet, as far as I can tell, but you can change the way you practice and get back on track. This might be why you've been "stagnating" for the last while, there are elements of the A&P that are similar to Equanimity which can cause you to misjudge where you're at and if you've been getting advice based on that then you're going to go 'round in circles. It's not a problem, mistakes happen but you'll learn from it and it'll prevent you from doing the same thing again.

The description of your sit today sounds like 1st to 4th ñana, you seem to be hitting access concentration then getting into a light 1st jhana but all the energetic stuff/warmth in the heart area is definitely A&P related. That would tie in with the more effortless meditation as you're in 2nd jhana territory at that point but, going by what you're actually doing in your practice, you're not doing insight practice properly. Definitely go back to noting, go for consistency and accuracy over speed at first and try to experience the entire sensation as clearly as possible.

A few tips for your sits...

- Set a timer and then forget it until it goes off. You're sitting down to practice, not to think about what you need to do once you get back up. Don't waste time, use every second to your advantage when you've got the chance to sit.

- Try bringing noting into everyday life, use it when you're feeling pressed for time, look at what sensations come up when you answer the phone, just investigate the normal stuff and see what you can learn. As Kenneth says, it's all just grist for the mill.

- Try using a candle or another kasina object if you're not confident in your ability to get into access concentration quickly, failing that just do breath counting as that's a great practice to work with.

RE: Jason's Practice Journal
Answer
2/17/12 4:45 PM as a reply to Tommy M.
OK, great. Thanks for the redirect. I figured something was wrong if I wasn't seeing progress. I will change tactics and report back. Thanks again for your help.

Jason

RE: Jason's Practice Journal
Answer
2/18/12 6:32 PM as a reply to Some Guy.
Sat for an hour this evening. Started with 4 counts of 10 breaths. Quickly entered into a comfortable, placid state. Physically, it's hard to find much to note other than fine tingling sensations everywhere, particularly the head. Not finding much emotional content either. Once or twice, I noted intrusive noises, and there was just a slight hint of annoyance, but my conditioned response to that by now is to refocus more. I noted some future thoughts and images. Also, getting back to noting seems to trigger an involuntary narrative of the meditation, which is separate from the noting. I noted this. For just a moment, there was slight neck tension, which quickly dissolved into a sense of energy flowing to the head. Almost all sensations noted were mildly pleasant.

Early in the sit, I felt an urge to just do concentration, but ignored it. Later, this urge returned so I followed for a bit. The sense of space became more contracted as my focus shifted to the area behind my eyes, and the visual field seemed to darken.

All in all, another mild, comfortable, buzzy sit.

As an aside, after initially taking this new understanding in my practice in stride, I found I was quite deflated, even depressed by it. Apparently, things are soon to get more difficult, not less. And I've wasted 6 months of diligent work. OK. But if it's correct that I haven't even crossed the A+P, then I'm just an inherently miserable SOB prone to hallucinations. Oh well! I persevere. emoticon

RE: Jason's Practice Journal
Answer
2/18/12 7:13 PM as a reply to Some Guy.
As an aside, after initially taking this new understanding in my practice in stride, I found I was quite deflated, even depressed by it. Apparently, things are soon to get more difficult, not less. And I've wasted 6 months of diligent work. OK. But if it's correct that I haven't even crossed the A+P, then I'm just an inherently miserable SOB prone to hallucinations. Oh well! I persevere.

I know that feeling horribly well, from thinking I'd gotten 4th path to thinking I'd gotten "AF" only to find myself going back to scratch and starting again. I always tell people that what I say shouldn't be taken as fact without rigorously testing it for yourself, but one thing I can tell you for certain is that these times when you've overestimated things, or have just made an arse of diagnosing your current level of attainment, teach you so much more in the long run than speeding ahead and missing out on the fine details of the scenery. Yeah, it sucks for a while but, like everything else, it'll pass and it's worth looking at those sensations too.

It's not uncommon for 3rd ñana to be fairly difficult in itself which may explain your being "miserable", and given that you've spent six months working with concentration it's not unlikely that you'd experience hallucinatory stuff when hitting the A&P. It sounds like you might just need to refine your approach a bit, you seem to be able to observe things quite well and at a subtle enough level to move on. What is it that you're doing when you're noting? How do you go about it? Do you note aloud or silently? What are you noting?

Remember that anything you can observe is notable, everything from hearing a noise to the tension in your calf muscle to the mental aversion arising when you get distracted, just note it.

Edited to add: When it comes to Dark Night, it doesn't necessarily need to be as unpleasant and crippling as you might think. Approach it in the right way, see things clearly and learn to accept things as they are while getting your concentration chops together and it's likely to be much easier, don't fight with it and don't try to change things 'cause that kicks up more tension and unpleasantness that's really not required. Take it easy and keep us updated.

RE: Jason's Practice Journal
Answer
2/19/12 11:48 AM as a reply to Tommy M.
What is it that you're doing when you're noting? How do you go about it? Do you note aloud or silently? What are you noting?


I note silently whatever is most prominent in my awareness. That may include physical sensations, pleasantness or unpleasantness, thoughts and emotions. I try to use labels that are most fundamental, basic, accurate, and preferably a noun form. More than that though, I try not to get too distracted by noting, and just use it as a reminder to apprehend the sensation.

Thanks again for following and for the feedback.

Today's sit was a little different. I counted 10 breaths 7 times before feeling concentrated. Then, buzzing at root, heart, 3rd eye, and crown, but with a little bit harsher edge. Still comfortable, but not so placid. More thoughts intruding: I noted anger, argument, loneliness, disappointment. I noted some faint impressions of light, like afterimages fading and appearing. For a minute, there was an energetic sensation of gyroscopic movement. I noted my pulse in my whole body. All of which sounds more dramatic than it was. Still a pretty comfortable sit.

RE: Jason's Practice Journal
Answer
2/20/12 9:16 AM as a reply to Some Guy.
I note silently whatever is most prominent in my awareness. That may include physical sensations, pleasantness or unpleasantness, thoughts and emotions. I try to use labels that are most fundamental, basic, accurate, and preferably a noun form. More than that though, I try not to get too distracted by noting, and just use it as a reminder to apprehend the sensation.

Trying noting things using adjectives too, still keeping it simple but paying closer attention to what those sensations are like as they change in real-time. You already know what your breath is so look a bit deeper and examine the individual patterns of sensation that make it up e.g. shallow, deep, shaky, staggered, warm, cool, get right into the details of the sensations themselves. If noting is done properly then there shouldn't be any room for distraction, it's a case of constantly bringing the attention back to what's going on right now. If you're not able to come up with a suitable word to note with then just acknowledge the sensation as it is, don't get caught up in trying to find the perfect word but always, always, always stay present and attentive.

Thanks again for following and for the feedback.

You're welcome. Anytime. Remember though that the best you're likely to get is an educated opinion, it's difficult to say specifically where someone is based on forum posts so take my advice with reasonable skepticism until you've verified it for yourself.

Today's sit was a little different. I counted 10 breaths 7 times before feeling concentrated. Then, buzzing at root, heart, 3rd eye, and crown, but with a little bit harsher edge. Still comfortable, but not so placid. More thoughts intruding: I noted anger, argument, loneliness, disappointment. I noted some faint impressions of light, like afterimages fading and appearing. For a minute, there was an energetic sensation of gyroscopic movement. I noted my pulse in my whole body. All of which sounds more dramatic than it was. Still a pretty comfortable sit
.
The feeling of a "gyroscopic movement", would it be accurate to describe it as being like a shifting sensation? Subtle but noticeable? See if you can catch what happens or what changes after you notice that sort of sensation, some things might be easier or more difficult to perceive depending on where you're at.

It sounds like you're moving through from 1st to 2nd vipassana jhana; thought patterns I'd associate with 2nd and 3rd ñana in particular, with the lightness and pulsation being more early 4th ñana. See what happens if you look more closely at the arising and passing of those afterimages, and mental phenomena in general as you may just be missing something by not investigating things closely enough. Try to stay with an object from the moment it arises until it's replaced by something else, really get in to it and catch as much of it as you can.

Another thing is to use the breath as your anchor, regardless of how concentrated you think you are. Note, come back to the breath, note, back to the breath, just keep everything engaged in your practice and go at it as if your life depended on it. Noting will become faster and more fluid to the point where it's impossible to come up with a verbal tag for each thing, at that point just stay attentive and acknowledge things as they happen.

RE: Jason's Practice Journal
Answer
2/20/12 3:56 PM as a reply to Tommy M.
I tried to note more quickly today. I found more buzzing, tingling, flowing type sensations. I looked into the afterimages more. At one point it seemed to turn into a brighter light. At the time, I was feeling pretty drowsy, and felt I might be falling into a dream. Felt a slight floating sensation at one point, then expanding. Lots of buzzing all over. Less distracting thoughts today.

The feeling of a "gyroscopic movement", would it be accurate to describe it as being like a shifting sensation?


It was almost like a searchlight, like they use when promoting big concerts, swinging around in the sky. But not bright at all. I did have some shifting sensations today. If anything, what I found connected to that was the drowsiness trap. Almost like I just didn't have the juice to go there. Or, it may have been incidental. Dunno.

Thanks!

RE: Jason's Practice Journal
Answer
2/21/12 12:04 PM as a reply to Some Guy.
Last night, lots of itching, sadness and related feelings.

This morning, still some itching, though less. More prominent visual impressions, like inkblots of light. Whole body energetic movement, mostly in an upward direction, leading to strong buzzing and pressure at the crown. At one point had a sensation of energy circulating, up on the right, down on the left, head to toe. Some moderate neck pain and stiffness.

Glad to no longer be mired in placidity. emoticon

RE: Jason's Practice Journal
Answer
2/21/12 2:35 PM as a reply to Some Guy.
I'm adding this just for my own accountability: I'm going to maintain a concentration practice at least 10 minutes a day, and it will be in the form of standing meditation. Sitting for sanity, standing for health. That is all.

RE: Jason's Practice Journal
Answer
2/23/12 1:39 PM as a reply to Some Guy.
Yesterday, I practiced noting while walking and rushing around doing errands. Didn't get to the cushion, but daily noting is a weak point for me so it was a good opportunity.

Today I sat one hour, noted some sadness and related mind states, some anxiety, tightness, constriction in chest and throat. Noted "butterflies" in stomach and chest, warmth in chest. Much less buzzy in the head today. Much less awareness of light and after images. Noted an uncomfortable sinking sensation (like sadness), but also an uncomfortable rising sensation (like anxiety).

I didn't notice any particular body pains today, other than numbness in my foot from sitting cross-legged.

Hmmm... it didn't seem like much at the time, but writing this out it does seem to have a different character than the last few sits. Or am I over-eager for progress? (Note: compulsion to make up for lost time!)

RE: Jason's Practice Journal
Answer
2/23/12 3:17 PM as a reply to Some Guy.
Hmmm... it didn't seem like much at the time, but writing this out it does seem to have a different character than the last few sits. Or am I over-eager for progress?

It's the subtle stuff that's interesting, sometimes you don't think you've gotten any further ahead and then, all of a sudden, you'll notice that things feel quite different from before.

Your sit sounds like mid to late Dark Night, stay with it and relax the focus so that you can see what's going on around the edges and out at the periphery of the sense field.

RE: Jason's Practice Journal
Answer
2/23/12 5:14 PM as a reply to Tommy M.
Am I right in thinking that the relative mildness of my experiences of these nanas may be due to having gone through them before? Or is it a sign of less effective practice? But progress is progress, no?

Part of the reason I got confused before was that I was pretty confident I'd been through A+P in the deep, dark past (actually there was a dream that qualified a couple months ago), and believed that made it unlikely I would get stuck in the early stages.

I know there probably is not a definitive answer to these questions, but it would be nice to understand my history. If today's session was indeed in the dukkha nanas - that has been the prevailing influence in my life for many years. Or, was it just a weak sit on a bad day?

RE: Jason's Practice Journal
Answer
2/24/12 10:22 AM as a reply to Some Guy.
So, last night I noticed the background field of awareness start to vibrate a little. I thought I might be scripting.

This morning, I started out with lots of buzzing, some strobing... then things got darker, visually, the buzzing went down by about half, and my field of awareness began almost bouncing. It wasn't uncomfortable at all. I didn't notice any particular emotions... although my mind wandered into arguments a couple times. So, I did note anger. After a while of that and the bouncing, things calmed down. I felt very peaceful and comfortable. I was having some difficulty noting. Just, space... pleasant mild vibrations everywhere.

RE: Jason's Practice Journal
Answer
2/27/12 10:18 PM as a reply to Some Guy.
I practiced minimally over the week end, mostly just to de-stress from a family visit. Tonight, it took a full half hour just to settle in and get concentrated and motivated. Actually, it was the first time in a long time that I really didn't want to meditate. Eventually, I tuned in, and found all sorts of unpleasantness, mostly of an emotional nature. It was challenging to break it down phenomenologically. There was anxiety, sadness, despair, loneliness. It was not overwhelming, but strong enough to dominate my attention.

I do have a sense of having been carrying it around the last few days. A lasting sensation like what you might have after being yelled at. Also, I've had some genuinely paranoid thoughts (doesn't mean they're *not* out to get me :b).

Oh, yeah. I had quite a bit of tension and aching in my mid-back, neck, and shoulders. Moderate head tingling. Minimal strobing. So, I'm taking this all as progress.

RE: Jason's Practice Journal
Answer
2/28/12 12:50 PM as a reply to Some Guy.
Today I set my timer for 90 minutes, but really struggled to go on the whole time. I used to sit effortlessly for hours, so this seems to be stage-dependent. Initially, I took a long time getting concentrated. Then I had some strobing, some buzzing, felt good mentally, although I also had a stiff neck. Eventually it got darker, visually and mentally. I was irritated, agitated, having some thoughts of despair. Again, nothing I was overly averse to, but something just made it hard to stick with it. I became very drowsy, and actually dozed a bit. Then I sat a while longer but really couldn't concentrate. That is very unlike me. Weird.

RE: Jason's Practice Journal
Answer
2/29/12 4:17 PM as a reply to Some Guy.
I really didn't want to meditate today, so just set the timer for 30 minutes and noted aloud. I noted gentle tingling through the whole body, some cold and numbness in the fingers. I noted dryness, itching, moisture (eyes), contact, pressure, rising, falling. I noted a couple of times the sense of space changing, expanding. I noted a pulling sensation as if from in front of me, and in urge to relax and "be absorbed," but I stuck with the noting for the duration. When the timer went off, I decided to just sit awhile since it really felt good. I felt like I could observe sensations in my whole body at once. I felt drawn to observe the observer and quickly found a sense of centerlessness that was new to me. I felt like I was watching "it," this body, just do its thing. This sense flickered out a couple times, but was pretty steady over 20-25 minutes. Other than that, I just felt peaceful, calm, not buzzy per se, but pleasantly tingly.

RE: Jason's Practice Journal
Answer
3/2/12 9:48 AM as a reply to Some Guy.
Noted aloud for 45 minutes. Lots of pinpoint itching, mostly at different points on the head. Noted boredom, agitation, thoughts and images. Noted vague impressions of light, that came and went. Noted some tingling in the head. Noted pressure, contact, numbness. Noted mental dullness. Noted searching for things to note.

One area where I have not managed to develop any skill is in noting off the cushion. I'll work on that today. emoticon

RE: Jason's Practice Journal
Answer
3/3/12 10:27 AM as a reply to Some Guy.
This morning I had a lot of itching again to begin with. Noted gross sensations such as pressure, cold, contact, numbness, dryness; as well as light tingling in the head. After a while, I entered a very, very peaceful state, with no prominent gross sensations. That sense of centerlessness returned, and I welled up with gratitude and, for a moment, tears. It was difficult to note in this state, as nothing particular seemed to arise. But I continued to note about once every 3-5 seconds. I thought to look for the sense of self, but it seemed like I would have to generate it to find it, so I let it go. Toward the end I was slipping in and out of this state, reverting to itching, boredom, slight restlessness.

Maybe it was a jhana state, although I was noting, definitely not making an effort to concentrate much, investigating different areas of body and mind. Maybe it is EQ after all?