Bagpuss The Gnome:
Now then...
If you don't think Im in 3rd, or think I'm doing something else entirely here go ahead and talk to me about that. I'd appreciate it. Right now I'm going to continue to assume I'm in a fairly soft 3rd jhana though and talk about how to get to 4th.
How to get to fourth?
I read MCTB that just noticing how noisy the bodily bliss was would do it. Certainly my progress through the other jhanas has been pretty automatic but I don't seem to be able to move beyond 3rd currently.
Tonight I turned the attention in on itself. This proved very interesting. I stopped watching the bodily bliss and focused on "attention" itself. It felt kind of like sinking backward into my own head. The bodily bliss dropped, but it did not feel "profoundly calm". I did feel calm, the mind was quiet, but I didn't get the feeling this was it. Im not sure what it was, other than an interesting samadhi experience.
Can anyone comment on any of this and help me understand these experiences a bit better please?
Many thanks,
What you think is third probably is, but it's just a very soft third jhana. In progressing from 1 through 4, each one going up was softer than the one proceeding it. Repeatedly sitting in a jhana allows you to "stew" in it. With repeated stewing, it moves from the soft end towards the harder end of the scale. The term Kenneth Folk used at the time was "ripening", which sure fits the bill. So if you are in the 3rd, and the 3rd is soft, and you can get to the 4th it will be extremely soft.
As far as the 4th jhana goes, there have only been a few times I've been in that territory and been absorbed to any degree, which would put me at the soft end of the scale...making it less a jhana and more straight up 11th nana/equanimity. So for me to solidify it into a jhana, I guess it will need more stewing and seasoning. What you say about it not feeling "profoundly calm" but the mind being quiet resonates with me.
One thing you can try in the 2nd and 3rd to reach a more absorbed/harder state is turning away from the piti (2nd) or sukha (3rd) and look for a silence. Turn you attention to this silence; the piti/sukha is still there, but just not the main or full object of attention. To me this silence is a palpable thing once the soft jhana has developed a little (Three cheers for soft jhanas!). If you can take this silence as your object, your one-pointedness will develop, leading to more increased ripening/absorption/harder jhana.
When in the 11th nana/4th jhana territory, the silence thing is pretty much right there in your face (with the spaciouness), as opposed to being an alternate primary focus that can be used as I described above. When in that neck of the woods I stay on the 11th nana side trying to do the things mentioned in the equanimity threads to get stream entry.
I think your getting to the 4th will entail additional ripening in the 3rd; my 3rd was very shakey until the 2rd had firmed up. You can try resolutions before hand.
I hope this helps.
Eric