Disenchantment

End in Sight, modified 12 Years ago at 3/13/12 8:31 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 3/13/12 8:31 AM

Disenchantment

Posts: 1251 Join Date: 7/6/11 Recent Posts
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/thig/thig.05.04.than.html:
"Sick, putrid, unclean:
look, Nanda, at this physical heap.
Through contemplation of the foul,
develop your mind,
make it one, well-centered.

As this [your body], so that.
As that, so this.
It gives off a foul stench,
the delight of fools."

Considering it thus,
untiring, both day & night,
I, with my own discernment
dissecting it,
saw.

And as I, heedful,
examined it aptly,
this body — as it actually is —
was seen inside & out.

Then was I disenchanted with the body
& dispassionate within:
Heedful, detached,
calmed was I.

Unbound.


Disenchantment is something that's been important to my own practice for a long time, so I thought that posting some reflections about it might be helpful.

For any experience, it might seem that there are three ways one might regard it:

* Positively: "This is a good experience, it should be cultivated, it should be sustained.
* Negatively: "This is a bad experience, shameful, not worth having: it should be eliminated.
* Equanimously: "Whatever qualities this experience has, no reaction is necessary."

But there is also a fourth way:

* With investigation: "What value is there in this?"

Equanimity can lead to letting go of experiences associated with defilements, but the possibility for deep equanimity is much greaater if one can see the disadvantages of those experiences, and become disenchanted with them.

The basic canonical paradigm for this kind of analysis is jhana; one recognizes the disadvantages to non-jhanic states, and enters the 1st jhana; one recognizes the disadvantages of the grosser factors of the 1st jhana and moves into the 2nd jhana...etc. But, especially for one who doesn't have powerful concentration, an investigatory examination of non-jhanic experiences can do a lot of good.

Generally, I found it helpful to pick experiences that seemed positive, rather than negative. The disadvantages of clearly unpleasant experiences tend to be fairly obvious. The disadvantages of apparently pleasant experiences are much less so. Take something like thinking about a subject that you enjoy. Is this thinking pleasant? What about compared to a state of mild concentration? What about compared to not thinking? What about compared to relaxing quietly in bed? Is it as desirable-seeming when compared to other experiences within your reach? If not, why do you pursue it? Can you easily choose to stop pursuing it? (If you can't easily stop, is the feeling of compulsion pleasant or unpleasant?) When you find an experience within your reach that is better than thinking about a subject you enjoy, the fundamental question may be what, precisely, phenomenologically, experientially, makes it better? Is it some particular quality? Some lack of a particular quality? Both?

If you have moderate concentration abilities, a state of moderate concentration is an excellent comparison to hold apparently-positive experiences to.

There are many other experiences that are worth examining. If you are subject to particular forms of craving in a strong way (say, craving for food, craving for sex, craving for company, etc.) and have resolved that it's more skillful to focus your efforts elsewhere and deal with these things in the future, instead of treating the experience of craving and the states that it encourages you to produce as good, bad, or equanimity-worthy, you can simply ask: "now that I'm experiencing this, now that I'm indulging my craving, is there anything good in this experience, or is it merely desirable, apparently-good, but with no goodness or value beyond the inclination to think of it as good?"

If you are subject to particular forms of craving in a strong way, there may be an advantage to taking some time in your practice to seek out the states you crave so as to see for yourself, as clearly as possible, whatever good or lack of good there is in those states. It is hard to recommend this as a route to go down because there are many disadvantages to it, but depending on your relationship to those forms of craving, there may be a benefit. For example, an alcoholic craving a drink should almost certainly not indulge that with a view towards examining the experience. A person craving dessert might benefit from indulging that. A person craving sex might benefit from indulging in some ways (examining the experience of seeing attractive bodies) but might be wary of other ways (examining the experience of casual or anonymous sex). Keeping in mind that this is an exercise meant to give rise to disenchantment, rather than an excuse to pursue sensual gratification, should help one to evaluate whether this sort of thing is a good idea or not, and evaluate whether it's helping or not.

As a final note, keep in mind that disenchantment is a more profound thing than equanimity, and don't mix the two up. Equanimity can come and go. Disenchantment is a more permanent disinterest in and rejection of a certain range of experiences, not so dependent on the current state of your mind.

(With that, I'm again taking an indefinitely leave from posting.)

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn35/sn35.028.than.html:
I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was staying in Gaya, at Gaya Head, with 1,000 monks. There he addressed the monks:

"Monks, the All is aflame. What All is aflame? The eye is aflame. Forms are aflame. Consciousness at the eye is aflame. Contact at the eye is aflame. And whatever there is that arises in dependence on contact at the eye — experienced as pleasure, pain or neither-pleasure-nor-pain — that too is aflame. Aflame with what? Aflame with the fire of passion, the fire of aversion, the fire of delusion. Aflame, I tell you, with birth, aging & death, with sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs.

"The ear is aflame. Sounds are aflame...

"The nose is aflame. Aromas are aflame...

"The tongue is aflame. Flavors are aflame...

"The body is aflame. Tactile sensations are aflame...

"The intellect is aflame. Ideas are aflame. Consciousness at the intellect is aflame. Contact at the intellect is aflame. And whatever there is that arises in dependence on contact at the intellect — experienced as pleasure, pain or neither-pleasure-nor-pain — that too is aflame. Aflame with what? Aflame with the fire of passion, the fire of aversion, the fire of delusion. Aflame, I say, with birth, aging & death, with sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs.

"Seeing thus, the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones grows disenchanted with the eye, disenchanted with forms, disenchanted with consciousness at the eye, disenchanted with contact at the eye. And whatever there is that arises in dependence on contact at the eye, experienced as pleasure, pain or neither-pleasure-nor-pain: With that, too, he grows disenchanted.

"He grows disenchanted with the ear...

"He grows disenchanted with the nose...

"He grows disenchanted with the tongue...

"He grows disenchanted with the body...

"He grows disenchanted with the intellect, disenchanted with ideas, disenchanted with consciousness at the intellect, disenchanted with contact at the intellect. And whatever there is that arises in dependence on contact at the intellect, experienced as pleasure, pain or neither-pleasure-nor-pain: He grows disenchanted with that too. Disenchanted, he becomes dispassionate. Through dispassion, he is fully released. With full release, there is the knowledge, 'Fully released.' He discerns that 'Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, the task done. There is nothing further for this world.'"

That is what the Blessed One said. Gratified, the monks delighted at his words. And while this explanation was being given, the hearts of the 1,000 monks, through no clinging (not being sustained), were fully released from fermentation/effluents.
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Bruno Loff, modified 12 Years ago at 3/13/12 9:00 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 3/13/12 9:00 AM

RE: Disenchantment

Posts: 1094 Join Date: 8/30/09 Recent Posts
Right On The Mark, EIS, a very good choice for your 1000th post. Disenchantment, although a highly recurring theme in the sutas, is not talked about nearly as much in western buddhism. I guess it doesn't sell very well emoticon

For me, disenchantment with pleasure is felt as a sort of "meh... not worth pursuing...", and disenchantment with pain is felt as a sort of "bah... not worth worrying about it or wanting it to go away...".

For me, disenchantment towards pleasure was strengthened in the past upon close examination of the rotten fruits of pleasure, such as day dreaming, planning, disregard for others, etc.

For me, disenchantment towards pain was strengthened in the past by disinterest in any alternative. A sort of "meh... it's all the same anyway."

Interestingly enough, despite being more and more disenchanted, I still seem to act towards a decrease of pain and an increase in stability, at least for myself, but I think for others also.

A few main themes of my current practice, and questions I'd love feedback on, are:

Will disenchantment towards pleasure tone down the A&P and euphoria?

Will disenchantment towards pain tone down DN and depression?

Does disenchantment lead naturally to equanimity? Or is there such a thing as disenchantment with equanimity?
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Eric B, modified 12 Years ago at 3/13/12 10:58 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 3/13/12 10:58 AM

RE: Disenchantment

Posts: 187 Join Date: 8/24/09 Recent Posts
Great stuff EIS; good to hear from you.

Eric
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Daniel Johnson, modified 12 Years ago at 3/14/12 5:49 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 3/14/12 5:49 PM

RE: Disenchantment

Posts: 401 Join Date: 12/16/09 Recent Posts
eh... I'm kinda disenchanted with disenchantment right now.

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thanks for the posts