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Calmly going forward- Andrew's practice notes

4 July 2012

Before reading this thread you should know that nothing i say in it is what it seems. I have since realised that 'i' as a felt being 'climbed into my head' sometime before I was 6, (certainly I have no memory of being other that I am now), and because of that my main sources of pleasure have been mental and creative. what does this have to do with what follows? basically this; All of my demands, my objections, my points and logic all circle back to me gaining some sort of mental reassurance of my existence. In other words, I just like to hear to the sound of my own thoughts as they are the only 'subtle feelings' i ever had.

I sincerely suggest you skip this thread or read it clearly remembering the above, as it is likely to sully your thinking and otherwise put you off the Actual Freedom Trust which is actually a very sensible and down to earth method of becoming happy and enjoying ones all too brief life.

i will not edit the posts apart from this one, though I am not proud or pleased with many things I say in it. It should stand as yet another example of why one must do what one can while one has the opportunity to be free of ignorance and I highly recommend giving the Actual Freedom Trust an unbiased reading to the best of ones ability, and feel free to question me if that will help as to why I have changed my tune.

Being influenced by online opinions to otherwise object to things one hasn't even comprehended properly is an on going danger of reading material like what follows.

Andrew Jones







Instead of continuing on my hijack of Florian's psychopath thread, which was quickly turning into my defacto practice thread- it really is something that is hitting home hard right now.

More stories form the 'real' world today.

Standing at the sushi bar counter, man comes up reaches across infront of me (there was no one else waiting) and put's his sushi in front of me and the lady serving me. I stand my ground and note the discomfort that this created. alarms going.

instead of moving back or to a more comfortable distance, I stand my ground. I reach accross him to get my chop sticks as if he doesn't exist. i don't move, i pay for my food over the top of his, I behave as if he doesn't exist. Though he unfortunately does.

I get my sushi with chilli flakes and sit down. I can feel the conditioning squirming like I imagine a tapeworm might.

I want to buy a phone for my new 'right livelihood' venture. I go to the phone shop. Nice shop, service is great. Older possibly southern europian bloke walks in and takes immediate 'playfully sarcastic yet with malice' offence at the asian lady behind the counter's question 'are you alright?' (I considered leaving the races out of this, but it struck me as significant)

he rants in a very familiar way. Playful yet biting. Confident and without yelling, but loud. He doesn't stop, just keeps going on about how where he comes from it is 'how can I help you, sir'.

He is 2 metres from me and there are 4 of us total in the shop- 2 behind the counter. he calls across to the man serving me. 'Kevin, I can't find what I want' kevins says, I'll be with you soon'. Man doesn't stop. he starts again on the woman (pregnant wife of Kevin, a well spoken perhaps Malaysian man)

He tries Kevin again. I turn to him and say something like 'he will be with you soon...sir" with sarcastism. he immediately tries it on me saying something along the lines of 'always with the sarcasm, stabbing, needling' making gestures as if he is talking about some group I belong too. . I look at him and say 'there is more than one' Implying i'm not actually sure what, except there was a strange meaning in it something like 'I too am part psycho, but I know it, you don't. There is more than one of us in this shop'. sort of something like that and a mix of the ordinary meaning of 'there are other people in the world too , you rude fuck.'

He shuts up. I'm surprised. i think perhaps his disease is something more benign. Maybe he is just a traumatised old extremely rude man. I can't tell the difference, how would I? but rude is still rude. It could be anything, but his malice was real.

The tension is palpable in me.

I'm immensely impressed with Kevin the salesman serving me. This man had been hassling them for a while I picked up while this was going on. Kevin is ignoring him somehow and is calmly going on explaining the phone contract and features. 'Well done Kevin', I think. I don't give a shit about the phone at this stage. He could have sold me solid gold and mortgaged me till kingdom come, I'm just happy to remember to be calm of sorts. Real calm, hard fought calm. Calm in the face of this prick of a man.

I'm just happy psycho man shuts up, because I'm tired of the world of fucked up people and the fear that produces in me. or vice versa. (solipistic conditioning showing through). The whole time I'm wondering, if he wasn't old and smaller than me, would psycho have backed off? Perhaps now he just preys on pregnant asian shop keepers. i note there no wedding band on his finger. I'm not surprised.

Times like these i know there is something organising my path. It's not 'all good' but I'm smiling somehow anyway and trying like all get out to calm this burning feeling as best my skill allows.

Calm like a bomb, but getting far better at the internal diffusing. Untie! you damn knot! Now was it red wire, or blue wire?...

RE: Calmly going forward- Andrew's practice notes
Answer
3/20/12 8:43 AM as a reply to Andrew ..
hello,

what in this post of yours pertains to a practice that's 'calmly going forward' or a practice inspired by actualism?

RE: Calmly going forward- Andrew's practice notes
Answer
3/20/12 10:13 AM as a reply to Trent ..
Hi Trent,

What in the above is practice? Just about all of it in a messy kind of way.

My practice as a whole turned a corner last year coming into contact with the AFT. Some things came into sharp focus, and some things went off track, but when I considered all the evidence, my practice is still 'inspired by actualism'.

It is all rubber hits the road as I look around and realise 'no matter how I cut this, these things have to be confronted in me, and by extension in my interactions with others. It can't be one without the other.'

I could have kept going with another thread I started titled 'Get me out of here', but decided to start fresh. And as I alluded to in the first sentence, I felt I had better go with the inspiration to explore what Florian had brought up without hijacking his thread.

I don't keep up with who moderates around here these days, but by the tone of your questions I have assumed it is you. Is it not OK to post, in my own words, how I dealt with some situations which I felt relevant today?

I can explain further if i have otherwise misinterpreted genuine questions.

How do you see it not 'pertaining to practice' and 'inspired by actualism'? did i not use the approved words? what in particular makes you regard the interactions as irrelevant to my practice and how actualism has inspired me?

Would you mind letting me know how my practice and my inspiration should sound to you so I can be more careful to make it sound like your practice and your inspiration.

RE: Calmly going forward- Andrew's practice notes
Answer
3/20/12 1:11 PM as a reply to Andrew ..
Andrew Jones:
I don't keep up with who moderates around here these days, but by the tone of your questions I have assumed it is you. Is it not OK to post, in my own words, how I dealt with some situations which I felt relevant today?


i have been actively reading and occasionally moderating when appropriate, but that was not the explicit reason for my response. although, i do understand how it could be read that way. here is why i asked…

Andrew Jones:
How do you see it not 'pertaining to practice' and 'inspired by actualism'?


when i read your post, i see very little that indicates that you are exploring, investigating or trying to understanding yourself / your feelings / ‘me’. i see numerous hints at presumptions and generalizations that do not sound naive at all. your post itself as well as the story you told smacks of passive aggression and resentment, not of harmlessness and happiness. you specifically mention being sarcastic, which couldn’t be further from sincerity. i see no mention of the terms, or allusions to: attentiveness, sensuousness, or apperception. you make no note of lessons learned or of ongoing investigations, and you ask no questions which aren't rhetorical. in general, it sounds to me like you are ranting and venting rather than caring and contemplating. with all that said, and to reiterate: i do not see how your post pertains to practice at all, let alone how it was inspired by actualism.

are you currently putting the actualism method (‘HAIETMOBA’) into action?

RE: Calmly going forward- Andrew's practice notes
Answer
3/20/12 1:52 PM as a reply to Andrew ..
Hi Andrew,

I read your report as your own becoming aware of malice/fear/stress in yourself and in others.

What I´ve observed is that as soon as I become aware of a certain type of 'fault' or misconduct according to my values, I usually tend to not only resent this behaviour in myself but also other people. That´s the starting point for various problematic thought patterns:

- I know what I´m doing wrong, they don´t
- I´m actively trying to resolve my own 'faults', they don´t
etc.

Problematic in so far as it is actually identity-reinforcing, i.e. it´s me (for the right cause and reasons) against them (ignorant and 'psychopathic').
Now it´s not that your observations are neccessarily wrong or inappropriate but what are the benefits in creating that duality?
Not only do I not know (and usually never can know) the actual intentions and motivations for someone elses behaviour but by turning them into an enemy (whom I need to teach proper behaviour) I win nothing but unneccessary (inner) conflict.

The option, to point out someone´s misconduct is still open but there´s a difference between doing it self-invested in order to feel better myself or doing it simply because it is of practical use to me/them or someone else.

Avoiding this duality is of huge benefit for myself because as soon as I start to see a problem without (moral) judgement, it´s much easier to accept as being still a part of myself. With that acceptance, there´s no blame, no guilt and the whole thing is quicker resolved.
No need for all that drama, imho.

RE: Calmly going forward- Andrew's practice notes
Answer
3/20/12 5:02 PM as a reply to Andrew ..
speaking of actualism practices... i have started reading the aft website more frequently again, re-visiting the topic of actual intimacy. what it comes down to is equality, basically.

do you notice with yourself a back-forth that seems similar to how competitiveness is projected on others? as in a duality of dominance and submissiveness? it can play out very subtly, but in my own investigations i have found that when it is projected on others it is a tension of - i'm better than this person or this person is better than me.

RE: Calmly going forward- Andrew's practice notes
Answer
3/20/12 7:10 PM as a reply to Trent ..
Andrew Jones:

I can explain further if i have otherwise misinterpreted genuine questions.

How do you see it not 'pertaining to practice' and 'inspired by actualism'? did i not use the approved words? what in particular makes you regard the interactions as irrelevant to my practice and how actualism has inspired me?



I didn't misinterpret the reasons you questioned my post, so I leave it with you to decide what to do with it.

RE: Calmly going forward- Andrew's practice notes
Answer
3/20/12 8:13 PM as a reply to Martin M.
Thanks for the reply Martin,

Yes I very much think you are correct, becoming aware (again) of why this needs to be done. There is some sort of sickness going around.

Remaining calm in the face of both my own particular conditioning and and the manifestations of others is not easy though. Learning a certain assertiveness without the sarcasm taking over, standing my ground without aggression. Not easy.

I walked away from the events yesterday wondering what happened...more determined to remain truly calm without bypassing the issue.

I guess there is a duality being created, or simply being stirred up. I have plenty of us versus them conditioning.

Martin M:

The option, to point out someone´s misconduct is still open but there´s a difference between doing it self-invested in order to feel better myself or doing it simply because it is of practical use to me/them or someone else.


This is my intention, but as I recorded, not the outcome. But avoiding the tension, and inevitable falling short of my better judgement doesn't seem to be any healthier. It seemed good practice not to slink away as I might ordinarily into resentment and 'I should have' but to rather do what seems right, no matter how uncomfortable it is to do it.

I won't stand by and watch kids at the pool, pregnant ladies, or even me, be pushed around. I don't see than benefiting anyone, or my practice.

Avoiding the duality? sounds great, and I agree in principle, though as I candidly posted, I'm generally avoiding my own internal conflict by not making a stand, which is hardly avoiding duality, more like avoiding reality. again i agree in principle and will remember to have a look at how that plays out today.

thanks

RE: Calmly going forward- Andrew's practice notes
Answer
3/20/12 8:11 PM as a reply to Steph S.
Hi Steph,

Steph S:

do you notice with yourself a back-forth that seems similar to how competitiveness is projected on others?


definitely there is internal back and forth. Though I have to revert to my previous solipsism to say that the man standing and nearly pushing me out of the way at the sushi bar was projection, or the domineering man at the phone shop was interrupting and talking over me and Kevin was all in my head. It seemed entirely real.

it could be more that normally I would slink back and choose not to. i don't know where that is filed under in practice.

perhaps it is like when one buys an item and from then on in can't help but see it everywhere. There is more than one explanation for that as well. (perhaps htc phones did get popular right when I bought one?, perhaps I have been dancing to the tune of psychos and just didn't notice, one of the psychos being 'me')

it didn't cross my mind that I was better than anyone in the situations, more so that I certainly felt I did not play the part expected by the antagonist. Again there are more than one explanation of why any of it happens, so I value your take on it.

thanks

RE: Calmly going forward- Andrew's practice notes
Answer
3/20/12 9:08 PM as a reply to Andrew ..
hello,

well, just in case you didn't understand me, please allow me to clarify: i did not post because you 'did not use (some) approved words', nor because i disapprove of your words, or anything of the suchlike. i chose to respond using actualism terminology because it facilitates clear communication appropriate to the context set by the category you created the thread in. that i chose to use those words instead of others in no way removes the meaning those words were meant to convey, which were quite deliberately pointed toward showing you that you don't seem to be practicing anything even remotely similar to what actualism is on about. if you do happen to be practicing well, then my post may simply serve as a helpful guideline as to what sort of themes you might want to consider including in future posts; including those will help others help you, and help you help yourself.

are you currently putting the actualism method (‘HAIETMOBA’) into action?

RE: Calmly going forward- Andrew's practice notes
Answer
3/20/12 10:43 PM as a reply to Trent ..
Now seems like a good time to insert the following from: http://www.actualfreedom.com.au/richard/articles/thismomentofbeingalive.htm

"Note: *asking how one is experiencing this moment of being alive is not the actualism method*; consistently *enjoying and appreciating this moment of being alive is what the actualism method is*. And this is because the actualism method is all about consciously and knowingly imitating life in the actual world. Also, by virtue of proceeding in this manner the means to the end – an ongoing enjoyment and appreciation – are no different to the end itself."

RE: Calmly going forward- Andrew's practice notes
Answer
3/20/12 10:44 PM as a reply to Trent ..
Does Richard consider you to be actually free? Or is it just yourself?

RE: Calmly going forward- Andrew's practice notes
Answer
3/20/12 10:51 PM as a reply to Andrew ..
Hey Andrew, I think you might be going slightly off track in a certain way, I find myself there often, however having realized it clearly as a specific issue has helped me keep it from happening as much.

It seems that you are perhaps idealizing a way of being in the real world, rather than a 'not-being'. You seem to be focused on being 'calm' and you are observing the behavior of others and categorizing them as good/bad i.e. acting calm/not calm.

Something I look for when this happens to me is where my motivation is coming from. Is it coming from imagining situations in which i am acting, speaking, or thinking in a certain way and then feeling good about those imagined situations, or is my motivation coming from and interest in well-being (without boundaries about who this well-being is for or how much of it there is) here and now? It is often the former, in which case I investigate whether being in the former way or the latter way is preferable here and now, and do the sensible thing and be the latter way, as it is preferable.


This is what I'm drawing from mostly:
I'm immensely impressed with Kevin the salesman serving me. This man had been hassling them for a while I picked up while this was going on. Kevin is ignoring him somehow and is calmly going on explaining the phone contract and features. 'Well done Kevin', I think. I don't give a shit about the phone at this stage. He could have sold me solid gold and mortgaged me till kingdom come, I'm just happy to remember to be calm of sorts. Real calm, hard fought calm. Calm in the face of this prick of a man.


Is what you are idealizing a sort of "power" a sort of 'winning-out' of one person over another by not being perturbed by their attempts to perturb? If your intentions are based on this win/lose idea you will not be happy and harmless, you can be very very calm, like those cool spies in action movies, you can show no sign of injury or anger or whatever, but the happiness got from acting calm is nothing to the happiness from being happy and harmless.

RE: Calmly going forward- Andrew's practice notes
Answer
3/20/12 10:53 PM as a reply to Change A..
Does Richard consider you to be actually free? Or is it just yourself?


aman, are you trying to derail this thread to push along an agenda?

RE: Calmly going forward- Andrew's practice notes
Answer
3/20/12 11:56 PM as a reply to Andrew ..
hi andrew,

the way the actualism method works, you keep your hands in your pocket until the initial feeling subsides. looking at what you wrote (your sarcastic response for instance), it looks as if you have failed to do so.

Andrew Jones:
I'm trying like all get out to calm this burning feeling as best my skill allows.

it is basically impossible to practice actualism without first preventing much of the flurry of reactions to the initial feeling.

vineeto wrote about this in How to Investigate Feelings:

vineeto:
The first thing to become aware of and understand was my automatic reaction of suppression or expression in order to be able to experience the feeling fully that I am then able to label and examine.
I began to notice that when I stopped fighting having the feeling or stopped feeding the feeling, its intensity was immediately reduced significantly and then I was be able to take a closer look of what has caused this particular feeling to appear in the first place.

RE: Calmly going forward- Andrew's practice notes
Answer
3/20/12 11:59 PM as a reply to Change A..
Hi Aman,

Although not directed at me, such a question does have an agenda. i don't care what Richard or anyone thinks of Trent or anyone else, it seems to be the heart of why I can't get traction sometimes, thinking of who said what and what that means. infact to be honest, I really don't want to know. I would prefer to simply talk with Trent.

Besides, I am more than capable of derailing this thread by myself. That's not a 'go away' just, I posted this in here out of honesty with myself, (that my practice, though perhaps mostly looking like something else to others, is actualism inspired) i may have taken the limits of that inspiration a bit liberally, but i wanted to discuss it and it seemed the place. So, with respect and if you don't mind, please start another thread on that topic.

cheers mate.

RE: Calmly going forward- Andrew's practice notes
Answer
3/21/12 12:11 AM as a reply to Adam . ..
a da m:

This is what I'm drawing from mostly:
I'm immensely impressed with Kevin the salesman serving me. This man had been hassling them for a while I picked up while this was going on. Kevin is ignoring him somehow and is calmly going on explaining the phone contract and features. 'Well done Kevin', I think. I don't give a shit about the phone at this stage. He could have sold me solid gold and mortgaged me till kingdom come, I'm just happy to remember to be calm of sorts. Real calm, hard fought calm. Calm in the face of this prick of a man.


Is what you are idealizing a sort of "power" a sort of 'winning-out' of one person over another by not being perturbed by their attempts to perturb? If your intentions are based on this win/lose idea you will not be happy and harmless, you can be very very calm, like those cool spies in action movies, you can show no sign of injury or anger or whatever, but the happiness got from acting calm is nothing to the happiness from being happy and harmless.


i think you have nailed it a da m. That is what i have been imagining, and letting that picture develop like you have pointed out I can see the fear behind it. that fear came out in what I said to him, "there is more than one" that mix of implying I was somehow 'one' while appealing to the more general 'more than one person here' angle.

I was appealing and threatening in one hit.

so here is a general question, when confronted by injustice, by deliberate threats of intimidation, what do people suggest? i felt i had to stand my ground, (in three seperate situations, one i shared in Forians psycho thread, 2 here) yet the result is not really any sort of calming of the reaction.

more advice?

RE: Calmly going forward- Andrew's practice notes
Answer
3/21/12 12:31 AM as a reply to Andrew ..
So just to follow up that thought, 'happy and harmless' in practice effectively deals with this sort of confrontation and 'no one gets hurt'?

RE: Calmly going forward- Andrew's practice notes
Answer
3/21/12 12:47 AM as a reply to Trent ..
Trent .:


are you currently putting the actualism method (‘HAIETMOBA’) into action?


roughly. without the question. Whatever is happening I seek to calmly observe, coming back to where i am, noticing honestly as much of the detail as possible and coming back to the senses and space around me. Lately I have been having some success with my practice, in that until a few days ago, I was happy. In the face of the evidence though, I'm careful not to avoid feelings such as the ones I started this thread to explore.

RE: Calmly going forward- Andrew's practice notes
Answer
3/21/12 12:53 AM as a reply to Andrew ..
Andrew Jones:

so here is a general question, when confronted by injustice, by deliberate threats of intimidation, what do people suggest? i felt i had to stand my ground, (in three seperate situations, one i shared in Forians psycho thread, 2 here) yet the result is not really any sort of calming of the reaction.


have you heard the phrases "the calm before the storm" or "the quiet storm"? i have mistaken "the quiet storm" for a sort of calmness before. it sits really deep in the stomach and moves slowly, but if you pay really close attention, the slowness is just a building anger. emotions don't start off at peak intensity automatically.

what is it that you perceive as a deliberate threat of intimidation? and has the storm already started brewing at that point?

steph