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Arahattamagga Arahattaphala - The Path to Arahantship

Hello, everyone!

Are any of you familiar with this book, Arahattamagga Arahattaphala - The Path to Arahantship, by Ven. Ajahn Maha Boowa? If so, what is your opinion of it?

Also, because this is the books and websites category of discussion, I thought I'd mention that I'm currently reading Daniel Ingram's Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha (familiar to most here, of course) intermittently with Suzuki Roshi's Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind.

I'm finding that these two books work very nicely together as a goal-oriented, maps-heavy resource on the one hand, and (not sure how to characterize it) non-goal-oriented, non-maps heavy resource, on the other hand. The difference between the two is especially helpful for maintaining balance in how I relate to the matter of attainments.

Happy practicing!

Ryan

RE: Arahattamagga Arahattaphala - The Path to Arahantship
Answer
1/23/10 5:15 PM as a reply to Ryan Pirtle-McVeigh.
For anyone who would like to read this book I've mentioned, here's a link to the book and one to the page where I found the link, below. It's in PDF form, fyi.

http://www.luangta.com/English/site/books/book10_arahatta/Arahattamagga.pdf

http://www.luangta.com/English/site/book10_arahatta.html

RE: Arahattamagga Arahattaphala - The Path to Arahantship
Answer
1/23/10 5:45 PM as a reply to Ryan Pirtle-McVeigh.
Having browsed this book, I have a few early comments.

One, he uses the "no-dog" analogy. Like those of us familiar with that term in the DhO and KFDh context, he's talking about an ability to look at life situations with strong impartiality, but he brings up the analogy in order to discuss compassionate action, which I found interesting.

(page 80-82)

Also, he talks about seeing four types of beings, each classified according to their abilities to realize the Dharma (Dhamma). What do people make of this? I'm familiar with this kind of knowledge in the story of the Buddha's awakening, but I haven't heard any living beings discuss the matter.

It's mostly strange to me in terms of the padaparama, those who are 'lowest and most common" according to Maha Boowa. The other three make sense, but I don't understand what he's talking about in this lowest category. I suppose I just don't buy it. I'm a little bit reluctant to discuss the matter, because some people might fret that they fall into that category, and give up practiving at all. But that compassionate fear is overwhelmed by the likewise compassionate reason I'm compelled to mention the issue: that I don't believe that there are beings beyond hope in terms of the Dharma, and that this is an extremely dangerous view. I believe it should be vigorously challenged as erroneous, most especially when it is propagated by an Arahant. Am I misunderstanding Maha Boowa's point? Anyone care to weigh in?

Thanks.

Ryan

RE: Arahattamagga Arahattaphala - The Path to Arahantship
Answer
1/23/10 8:02 PM as a reply to Ryan Pirtle-McVeigh.
Ryan Pirtle-McVeigh:
Hello, everyone!

Are any of you familiar with this book, Arahattamagga Arahattaphala - The Path to Arahantship, by Ven. Ajahn Maha Boowa? If so, what is your opinion of it?

Also, because this is the books and websites category of discussion, I thought I'd mention that I'm currently reading Daniel Ingram's Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha (familiar to most here, of course) intermittently with Suzuki Roshi's Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind.

I'm finding that these two books work very nicely together as a goal-oriented, maps-heavy resource on the one hand, and (not sure how to characterize it) non-goal-oriented, non-maps heavy resource, on the other hand. The difference between the two is especially helpful for maintaining balance in how I relate to the matter of attainments.

Happy practicing!

Ryan


hi ryan,

i read 'the path of arahantship' several times a couple years ago and found it, along with other writings of ajahn maha boowa's, motivating. while not as map-oriented as 'mastering the core teachings', in it he does map his view of progress (which i presume is drawn from his own experience as it does not indicate whether the experiences of any others has been considered) to the 4 path, 10 fetter model. he is renowned in thailand for exhorting his students to relentless, unwavering effort in practice, which he also does in the book. as far as books coming from thai forest monks go, this is a very straight-forward and revealing piece, with much frank discussion of the features of his own practice and how it was shaped, what he recommends to his students, and pitfalls to watch out for.

i disagree with your characterisation of the book as being non-goal-oriented, as maha-boowa both indicates future goals which are practically attainable (the paths) as well as prescribes total-effort continuous mindfulness as the present goal. i quote from page 16:

'Once I understood the correct method for this initial stage of meditation, I applied myself to the task with such earnest commitment that I refused to allow mindfulness to lapse for even a single moment. Beginning in the morning, when I awoke, and continuing until night, when I fell asleep, I was consciously aware of my meditation at each and every moment of my waking hours. It was a difficult ordeal, requiring the utmost concentration and perseverance. I couldn’t afford to let down my guard and relax even for a moment.'

he does indicate that this way of practice is the means to path attainment.

tarin

RE: Arahattamagga Arahattaphala - The Path to Arahantship
Answer
1/24/10 2:25 PM as a reply to tarin greco.
Hi, Tarin

Sorry if my earlier post was unclear. It was Suzuki Roshi's Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind (ZMBM) that I meant to characterize as non-goal oriented. Also, perhaps I should say explicitly that I don't see "non-goal oriented" as an uncomplimentary or derisive term. The fact that he's not interested in talking about attainments and maps is precisely what I value about ZMBM, most of all as I read it alongside MCTB.

And thanks for your accounting of The Path to Arahantship! Sounds you liked it quite a bit.

Peace,
Ryan

RE: Arahattamagga Arahattaphala - The Path to Arahantship
Answer
1/24/10 2:36 PM as a reply to tarin greco.
the prisoner greco:


as far as books coming from thai forest monks go, this is a very straight-forward and revealing piece, with much frank discussion of the features of his own practice and how it was shaped, what he recommends to his students, and pitfalls to watch out for.

tarin


Yeah, I was expecting something very different, given his training in the Thai Forest school. Interesting to note the similarities and differences among those folks. Ajahn Chah, for instance, has a very different (warmer) personality, but a similar frankness.

I'm glad Ajahn Maha Boowa mentioned that moment when he realized "this isn't working!" and then went and corrected his mistake. I find that way of telling the story very helpful.

RE: Arahattamagga Arahattaphala - The Path to Arahantship
Answer
1/24/10 3:47 PM as a reply to Ryan Pirtle-McVeigh.
Ryan Pirtle-McVeigh:
Hi, Tarin

Sorry if my earlier post was unclear. It was Suzuki Roshi's Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind (ZMBM) that I meant to characterize as non-goal oriented. Also, perhaps I should say explicitly that I don't see "non-goal oriented" as an uncomplimentary or derisive term. The fact that he's not interested in talking about attainments and maps is precisely what I value about ZMBM, most of all as I read it alongside MCTB.

And thanks for your accounting of The Path to Arahantship! Sounds you liked it quite a bit.

Peace,
Ryan


hi ryan,

re-reading your initial post, it is crystal clear that you were referring to suzuki's book, which reference i had somehow missed completely. that, and re-reading my typo-peppered reply, makes me wonder if perhaps i shouldn't post so late at night.

regarding ajahn maha boowa's relationship to the thai forest tradition, i think he might be the only remaining living student of ajahn mun (who is sort of the big daddy of thai forest teachers - pretty much everyone in the thai forest tradition today was either his student - such as ajahns chah, lee, tate, or his student's student - such as ajahns fuang, sumedho, brahm). ajahn mun was known for being exceptionally fierce and that probably comes through maha boowa a fair bit, as he was quite close to mun (remaining with him until his death).

tarin

RE: Arahattamagga Arahattaphala - The Path to Arahantship
Answer
1/25/10 12:12 PM as a reply to tarin greco.
the prisoner greco:


hi ryan,

re-reading your initial post, it is crystal clear that you were referring to suzuki's book, which reference i had somehow missed completely. that, and re-reading my typo-peppered reply, makes me wonder if perhaps i shouldn't post so late at night.

regarding ajahn maha boowa's relationship to the thai forest tradition, i think he might be the only remaining living student of ajahn mun (who is sort of the big daddy of thai forest teachers - pretty much everyone in the thai forest tradition today was either his student - such as ajahns chah, lee, tate, or his student's student - such as ajahns fuang, sumedho, brahm). ajahn mun was known for being exceptionally fierce and that probably comes through maha boowa a fair bit, as he was quite close to mun (remaining with him until his death).

tarin


No worries, Tarin. Late-night posting can be an adventure, indeed! : )

Ryan

RE: Arahattamagga Arahattaphala - The Path to Arahantship
Answer
2/2/10 6:33 PM as a reply to Ryan Pirtle-McVeigh.
Hey, so does anyone have any thoughts about Ajahn Maha Boowa's description of four types of people in the world, including one that is most common and not capable of making progress in the Dharma? (Please correct me, if you think I don't understand his view?)

I'm mentioning this again because it's not something I hear anyone in these forums discussing, and I wonder why that is. It seems pretty radical to me, that is to say - against the common view prevalent these days that everyone can understand, achieve enlightenment, or even that we're all already enlightened. I'm not so interested in which of those you personally buy into, but more what you make of the "four types" view, presented by an Arahant in his book linked above.

Thanks.

Ryan

RE: Arahattamagga Arahattaphala - The Path to Arahantship
Answer
2/3/10 11:45 PM as a reply to Ryan Pirtle-McVeigh.
In theory, the truth of sensations being the way there is available to everyone who can perceive reality.

In practice, very few will practice, very few can understand dharma teachings, very few will make enough effort, very few will look closely, very few will achieve sufficient concentration, etc.

Helpful?

D

RE: Arahattamagga Arahattaphala - The Path to Arahantship
Answer
2/4/10 12:02 AM as a reply to Ryan Pirtle-McVeigh.
"Hey, so does anyone have any thoughts about Ajahn Maha Boowa's description of four types of people in the world, including one that is most common and not capable of making progress in the Dharma?"

I recently read this book, and thought the same thing about it not being brought out much.

This view reminded me of the many individuals who I've seen in recovery circles and in treatment who were given nutritional support, financial support, educational support, emotional support, spiritual support and community support and went right back to using and creating a huge mess in a whole bunch of ways.

Where, when and how someone opens to the dharma is someone who is ready, and capable.