Sadalsuud Beta Aquarii:
Hey Mattias,
I enjoyed reading your post about your experiences, found them exciting!
Like people say, you have had a big A&P or 2, and an "I AM" on the Thusness map.
Thanks for reading it, and for your reply. I'm impressed that people got through it.
Sadalsuud Beta Aquarii:
Also, as a side note, I agree with you on the notion that searching for enlightenment is unquestionably a good thing, a 'natural' thing to do.
Frankly I'm absolutely AMAZED that people aren't all over this. I mean really... what could possibly be more interesting?
Me: “So... do you guys want to explore ULTIMATE REALITY and really get into the NATURE OF CONSCIOUSNESS tonight or do you want to watch TV?”
Everyone: “We want to watch TV.”
Me: “Eh... that was actually supposed to be a rhetorical question... are you guys serious?”
Everyone: “Yeah we want to watch TV.”
Me: “Ok... But did I mention the part about this being the “Ultimate Reality” and how we could explore the nature of consciousness? I mean like really getting into the ideas of who we are, what awareness is... you know, the “meaning of life” stuff?”
Everyone: “Yeah we heard you. We're watching TV”
Me: “Ok... Well I guess I'll just be over here... reading and meditating. If you change your mind...”
Everyone: “Yeah yeah, we'll let you know if we change our minds. Just try to keep the noise down, American Idol is on.”
That's pretty much how I really feel about it.
Sadalsuud Beta Aquarii:
Anyway, you are clearly a very intellectually able person and your mind is evidently creatively open to handling different ideas and frameworks. You have a mind which is inclined to Truth, as evidenced from the fact that you have sort of been doing a lot of spiritual practice which has led you to these experiences, without knowing hardly anything about spiritual/meditative techniques. So my only advice is now, as a lot of new information, paths, methods, etc,come into your attention is to have a lot of faith in yourself and your own processes to free your mind. Take what you need from each source, tradition, and be patient, keep synthesizing it all. Key thing - you may not need to jump down a particular path just because it looks like a well signposted one... your own non-existent mind took you here, and it will take you all the way if you let it!

Thanks for the perspective. I haven't really had any 'faith' in myself or the 'method' that I used to get here so your perspective was fresh to me. I've viewed myself as a newbie that accidentally stumbled onto something, but I guess that's not really true, I just didn't know what the experiential results of what I was doing was going to be.
At this stage I'm trying to get a framework to put everything in so that I can analyze it properly and learn as much as possible from it. So far there hasn't been one solitary concept, tradition or framework that has been completely fitting so I may in the end have to create one for myself. For example the “Thusness Stages” in some ways do a better job of describing some experiences, whereas the MCTB is very spot on for others. I also find Alan Watts lectures to be very helpful in creating an inclusive and very positive intellectual understanding of it that allows it to be integrated in my scientifically based world view.
Sadalsuud Beta Aquarii:
re: the stages of insight - they may not appear so detailed as they do in MCTB unless you are doing the exact noting Mahasi noting practice. Otherwise they might generally appear in life like this:
1st vipassana jhana - Interesting - "How are things?"
2nd vipassana jhana - Amazing - "Wow, things are like that!!!!!"
3rd vipassana jhana - Wonky - "Things being like that seems hard to deal with..."
4th vipassana jhana - Chilled - "OK fine, things are like that. So?"
It makes absolutely no sense for me that the “Enlightenment Area” no matter how we decide to frame it should be anything but universal. That's because I managed to have a personal experience that matched what is described in various places extremely precisely, without me having any idea about it beforehand. Thus I also think that a “true” model must be theoretically possible and that all major contradictions must be solvable. It also makes me very sympathetic to dr. Ingrams and DhO's objective to present the “path” with no frivolous bullshit, religious ornamentation or trappings. And what I am really looking for is the nuts and bolts, as in the fastest and most efficient way to get from A to Z, or rather from here to “full Enlightenment”.
Right now I'm trying to map myself within the MCTB framework. The problem with that mainly concerns the second event. It seems pretty clear that the first one was a strong A&P happening, but the second one is more unclear and I am now leaning towards Equanimity fitting the bill better.
The period between the events fit Dark Night very well and just before the second event I had a period that I described in my first post as “the least spiritual hour of my existence”. This was basically a period of doubt where I was both questioning everything that had happened to that point but also finding all my sensations to be extremely “dry” or devoid of life. This would seem to fit the “Re-observation” part pretty well.
The other reason that I am leaning towards the second event being Equanimity is the after effects. After the first event ended I was basically back in base-line mode. Now it's been more than a month since the second event happened and everything seems to point to the new situation just becoming more and more stable. As I've said previously I don't have any real “problems” anymore, I just view everything as different thoughts, feelings and experiences that it's really not healthy to take too seriously.
I've also found that I can make most feelings that I used to find painful or uncomfortable become not just easy to handle but pleasurable. For example I quit a nicotine addiction that I've had for 20 years just by intentionally starting to experience the withdrawal symptoms as something pleasurable. I simply investigated the feelings, found them to be vibrations of heat and contractions in the chest area, and decided to associate them with pleasure. So quitting nicotine wasn't really an accomplishment since I enjoyed it very much, to the extent that I've actually considered re-acquiring the addiction just so I can quit again!
This coupled with the fact that, and I know this will sound bad to a lot of people so I probably shouldn't say it, but I kind of look forward to death. Not that I feel I need to rush it (I'm not suicidal, I've got plenty of things I want to do before I die), but I sincerely think it's going to be freaking awesome. I also feel like all these things are obvious and that I've been a bit of an idiot not to figure them out earlier (I mean I'm almost 40 and I'm supposed to be intelligent, how could it take me this long?!). In a way I think it's really inevitable to figure most of the things I now understand out, if you just think logically and keep following every idea about existence to its' very end. Anyway, I digress...
The arguments for the second event not being Equanimity is that it hasn't led to actual Enlightenment (yet) and that I'm unable to get higher than 2:nd Jhana in my concentration meditation, I can barely get past 1:st most of the time. Basically I feel like I'm much too crap at the whole meditating business to be at one of the later stages.
I'm often (but not always) able to perceive reality in a very clear and direct way that is also very pleasurable (everything is just kind of nice and beautiful when I do this). The days following the second event this was almost permanent, or my “natural” state, but now it takes effort (ranging from a little to a lot) and is sometimes not doable at all.
Both when I try for the 1:st Jhana in concentration meditation and when I try to view reality in this very direct and nice way, I have a problem with what I think of as “spasm”. Basically my body will react to the increasing sense of pleasure by having a muscle spasm, which will break the concentration and bring me out of the meditative state most of the time. Very annoying.
In the month after the second event there was also a lot of something similar to “cycling” that doesn't seem to fit. It was basically similar to a sinus wave, my mood or well being continuously dropping for a period of a few days, then me experiencing some sort of “revelation” when it hit its' lowest point, accompanied by a complete switch in mood to borderline euphoria. This happened a few times, fairly predictably, but hasn't really happened for about two weeks now as it seems my situation has stabilized.
But whether the second event was another A&P or Equanimity doesn't really matter I guess, because if it was another A&P I must have breezed through Dark Night which would put me in Equanimity now anyway. Or is it possible to just keep having A&P experiences over and over...? That would be pretty neat...
Actually I think your 1-4: Interesting - Amazing - Wonky - Chilled progression fits the bill pretty well.
Sadalsuud Beta Aquarii:
And yes keep an eye on your mental health. If you say you are mentally healthwise sound and you can handle it, then I don't have any reason to doubt you.
good luck and all the best.
I've used all these insights, techniques, mind-states etc to really work on my “issues” and to increase my mental status way beyond what I would say is normal. I've handled all my phobias and hangups etc to an extent that is almost ridiculous. This was partly because I reasoned that A&P event, if that is what it was, might be re-producible by removing all “blockage” psychoanalytically. It was part of a model of explanation I created myself after the event, and perhaps I should go back to that model and explore it.
It has also become so easy and second-nature for me to handle thoughts/emotions or “issues” that I am actually hoping that I'm going to find hangups or problems in my sub-conscious just so I can take care of them. Just as how I have trained myself to enjoy housework to the extent that I am often hurrying to start the dishes just so nobody else will do it (perhaps a bit greedy, why should I get to have all the fun?).
Anyway, thanks for your informative post and the well wishes. I'd be curious to know what you think about my efforts to map my progress. And more tips on what to do in order to progress would be appreciated since I feel a bit stuck,