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Is this the way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness?

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Is this the way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness? Fusions op 5/10/14 3:48 PM
RE: Is this the way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness? Daniel M. Ingram 5/10/14 3:55 PM
RE: Is this the way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness? Fusions op 5/11/14 6:46 AM
RE: Is this the way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness? tom moylan 5/11/14 8:20 AM
RE: Is this the way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness? Fusions op 5/11/14 8:30 AM
RE: Is this the way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness? tom moylan 5/11/14 9:17 AM
RE: Is this the way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness? Not Tao 5/11/14 9:54 AM
RE: Is this the way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness? Fusions op 5/24/14 9:51 AM
RE: Is this the way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness? Fusions op 6/7/14 7:53 AM
RE: Is this the way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness? sawfoot _ 6/7/14 11:44 AM
RE: Is this the way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness? Dream Walker 6/7/14 11:45 AM
RE: Is this the way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness? Fusions op 6/8/14 5:48 AM
RE: Is this the way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness? Derek Cameron 6/8/14 12:12 PM
RE: Is this the way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness? J J 6/8/14 1:23 PM
RE: Is this the way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness? Fusions op 6/8/14 3:35 PM
RE: Is this the way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness? Eric G 6/12/14 7:09 AM
RE: Is this the way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness? Dream Walker 6/8/14 6:26 PM
RE: Is this the way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness? Paweł K 6/11/14 6:59 PM
RE: Is this the way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness? Fusions op 6/12/14 4:55 AM
RE: Is this the way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness? Paweł K 6/12/14 6:15 AM
RE: Is this the way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness? Psi Phi 6/8/14 1:20 PM
RE: Is this the way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness? B B 5/10/14 6:35 PM
RE: Is this the way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness? Perceptual Bliss 6/27/14 11:50 PM
So I got out of this depression, and now I am feeling neutral with life. But still seeking joy, in everday activities.

Are you all doing this path for the reasons in the title aswell? How is it working out for you?

Side question: I saw Daniel's vids on the Jhanas, it is interesting, but it also seems restless in a way because they repeat over and over again. I thought there was a point where you have it and it's done so to speak.

I meditate twice a day for around  20-35min btw, never done any retreats.

RE: Is this the way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness?
Answer
5/10/14 3:55 PM as a reply to Fusions op.
What gets done is not something related to the specifics, it is something generic to everything, something much more fundamental and the normal cycles of wake/eat/sleep/repeat, jhanas and ñanas, birth/aging/sickness/death, happy/sad, gain/loss, health/illness, etc.

Until you have seen that, what you can see is the cycles of life in all their varieties. Those are good things to see. Start with those, and with much finer cycles, the cycles of the breath, the cycles of physical sensations oscillating with mental impressions, the cycles of intentions oscillating with actions, the cycles of thoughs and physical sensations oscillating to produce feelings, all those cycles: notice them as they are, in fine detail, and see if that helps.

I must say, I am very, very much happier now in general terms than I was before, but the cycles of life and all the rest still occur, as is their nature.

RE: Is this the way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness?
Answer
5/10/14 6:35 PM as a reply to Fusions op.
Are you all doing this path for the reasons in the title aswell? 
How about being a better person? You might want to contemplate the interdependence of our lives embedded in family, community, society, etc. My understanding is you can't do something purely for your own happiness without disregarding the ongoing suffering of those around you and sending out ripples of selfishness that others pick up on in your appearance, behaviour, etc., and are unconsciously influenced by (not to mention leaving harmful imprints on your own mind). I think at some point you just need to recognise that our ego-centric nature has probably been the biggest source of misery in human history, and then the question becomes: are you going to be a part of the problem or the solution? You might just snatch SE on a lengthy retreat with that outlook, but it's basically running contrary to the whole process of awakening.

RE: Is this the way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness?
Answer
5/11/14 6:46 AM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
Yes, life is a circle, I got that on mushrooms once. Nice to be reminded of it.

I guess I should do more research but I am going to ask anyways. What is stream entry? Why would I want to snatch that and does it bring me the things I mentioned in the title? (or is this too much mind talk/desire lol)

Also, what you said goes together with what the Guru of Ram Dass said, I forgot his name, when Ram asked him how to get enlightened, he said: 'Feed people, serve people' ^^

RE: Is this the way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness?
Answer
5/11/14 8:20 AM as a reply to Fusions op.
howdy,
as  a start try reading "Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha" written by the gent who responded to your post.  Its available as a pdf online.

As to what Stream Entry is: there are a few different interpretations and measures of that.  The most common one used here is a change one experiences after seeing through some of the basic illusions we take for granted.

In the theravada model there are four stages, or paths, of enlightenment.  Stream entry is the name given to achieving the first of these four paths.  It is usually marked by no longer believing in the separate illusory independent self, no longer believing in ceremonial acts and ritual being enlightening in and of themselves and the removal of doubt about the possibility of enlightenment being achievable.  Something like that.

have fun.

tom

RE: Is this the way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness?
Answer
5/11/14 8:30 AM as a reply to tom moylan.
tom moylan:
howdy,
as  a start try reading "Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha" written by the gent who responded to your post.  Its available as a pdf online.

As to what Stream Entry is: there are a few different interpretations and measures of that.  The most common one used here is a change one experiences after seeing through some of the basic illusions we take for granted.

In the theravada model there are four stages, or paths, of enlightenment.  Stream entry is the name given to achieving the first of these four paths.  It is usually marked by no longer believing in the separate illusory independent self, no longer believing in ceremonial acts and ritual being enlightening in and of themselves and the removal of doubt about the possibility of enlightenment being achievable.  Something like that.

have fun.

tom
Thank you. SE sounds like a great stage (and almost looks like a life cure for most problems and depression/sadness, because it is the indepent self that causes these problems right). Maybe I am exaggerating.

I take a look at his book for sure, but just to be clear. How big of a chance, of a probability do I have to experience true peace, joy and bliss? For ever?

RE: Is this the way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness?
Answer
5/11/14 9:17 AM as a reply to Fusions op.
Hi,
big questions to which you will get lots of different answers. i have never met anyone who is completely happy all of the time, living in constant unbroken bliss and the prospect of the rest of their days being like that.

one thing that is not often mentioned in most meditation / spiritual traditions is that the path of contemplation is not a linear one from disssatisfaction to perfect satisfaction.  ones affective sense changes all of the time.  some of the reasons have to do with false impressions about the way things are.  as we see through these illusions we let go of them and they have less to say about our moods and reactions.

so while a meditator usually goes through peaks and valleys of emotion the tendency is towards peace and ease.  stream entry is generally acknowleged by those who have experienced it as a great relief. a setting down of an unnecessary load.  i have seen reports too of people who have experienced very deep dark night (negative emotional) symptoms after first path (stream entry).

go ahead and read MCTB.  you will understand much more about this place and maybe more about yourself and the possibilities available to you.

good luck

tom

RE: Is this the way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness?
Answer
5/11/14 9:54 AM as a reply to Fusions op.
I'll step in and make everyone groan.  What you're probably looking for, OP, is Actualism (Actual Freedom).  The goal of Theravada is to accept emotions and cycles as they are.  If you want to eliminate negative emotions/passions, you'll need to investigate them directly.  If you haven't staked a claim to any traditions yet, though, why not just call yourself a "contemplative" and try a bunch of different stuff and mix the parts you like best?  Then tell us all how it works out!  I like your goal, ignore anyone who says it's impractical. emoticon

RE: Is this the way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness?
Answer
5/24/14 9:51 AM as a reply to Not Tao.
bump

RE: Is this the way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness?
Answer
6/7/14 7:53 AM as a reply to Fusions op.
last bump

RE: Is this the way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness?
Answer
6/7/14 11:44 AM as a reply to Fusions op.
Fusions op:
last bump

another last bumpemoticon

RE: Is this the way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness?
Answer
6/8/14 5:48 AM as a reply to Dream Walker.
The perceptual bliss model article was nice thank you, I don't think I want to read all that as I am not even sure persuing this path is worth is, I will meditate for about half an hour a day to calm down but I can't see atm why I would take it more seriously.
I am hoping for more reactions from people that can take themselves as example like Daniel did, or lay out the benefits more clearly for me (even though you just did that but it's so much text)

Thanks for the responses btw.

RE: Is this the way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness?
Answer
6/8/14 12:12 PM as a reply to Fusions op.
I'm not sure anyone sets out on this path because they've been sold on the future benefits. It's more like something you're either drawn to or you're not. In my case, it was a kind of curiosity, even a philosophical curiosity, about the true nature of reality. That being said, there are benefits, though perhaps not the ones you imagine in the beginning. BTW your earlier post (May 11) is correct. It is the fiction of an independent self that gives uncomfortable feelings something to stick to. Seeing through that fiction, along with the other factors Tom mentions, is the definition of "stream entry."

RE: Is this the way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness?
Answer
6/8/14 1:20 PM as a reply to Not Tao.
Not Tao:
  The goal of Theravada is to accept emotions and cycles as they are.  

The above statement is false, Right Effort is just one example that contradicts your statement., also known as four right exertions, four right strivings.  Where did you get this mis-understanding?  If one is to just accept emotions and cycles as they are they would never make any progress, the mass of the population accepts emotions and cycles as they are, that's why people are on the emotional merry-go-round, up and down round and round.  They don't know they can get off, much less how.  Maybe my understanding of your statement or of Theraveda is different.

Right Effort:


First , to abandon an unwholesome state that has already arisen.

Second, to not let unwholesome state arise that has not yet arisen.

Third, to arouse a wholesome state that has not yet arisen.

Fourth, to maintain a wholesome state that has already arisen

Psi Phi

RE: Is this the way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness?
Answer
6/8/14 1:23 PM as a reply to Derek Cameron.
Derek Cameron:
I'm not sure anyone sets out on this path because they've been sold on the future benefits. It's more like something you're either drawn to or you're not. In my case, it was a kind of curiosity, even a philosophical curiosity, about the true nature of reality. That being said, there are benefits, though perhaps not the ones you imagine in the beginning. BTW your earlier post (May 11) is correct. It is the fiction of an independent self that gives uncomfortable feelings something to stick to. Seeing through that fiction, along with the other factors Tom mentions, is the definition of "stream entry."
Exactly, I started on this path because it was an imperative, I
had too. It was do or die.

I like to use the metaphor of a poison or vaccine, the bitter toxic venom is injected into your body, it is samvega, it urges you to act, if you don't act you die. But there is a catch, the poison is a vaccine, it is not harmful. No one dies. Rather it makes a man out of you.

After the body has digested the poison and alchemised it, it continues to remain in your system. However you only keep the positive beneifts of the poison, as the toxin is now harmless!

This is the definition of the dark night, transmutation and alchemy.

RE: Is this the way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness?
Answer
6/8/14 3:35 PM as a reply to Derek Cameron.
Derek Cameron:
I'm not sure anyone sets out on this path because they've been sold on the future benefits. It's more like something you're either drawn to or you're not. In my case, it was a kind of curiosity, even a philosophical curiosity, about the true nature of reality. That being said, there are benefits, though perhaps not the ones you imagine in the beginning. BTW your earlier post (May 11) is correct. It is the fiction of an independent self that gives uncomfortable feelings something to stick to. Seeing through that fiction, along with the other factors Tom mentions, is the definition of "stream entry."


Could someone line these up for me ?  Or is there some article on this?
Because my question is that basically, what benefits will gain I from reading these spiritual books, going to retraits, doing a lot of meditation etc.
(bonus points if the benefits that you tell me are what happened to you).

RE: Is this the way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness?
Answer
6/8/14 6:26 PM as a reply to Fusions op.
Fusions op:
The perceptual bliss model article was nice thank you, I don't think I want to read all that as I am not even sure persuing this path is worth is, I will meditate for about half an hour a day to calm down but I can't see atm why I would take it more seriously.
I am hoping for more reactions from people that can take themselves as example like Daniel did, or lay out the benefits more clearly for me (even though you just did that but it's so much text)

Thanks for the responses btw.
Sorry for so much text.
Good luck in your meditations, however you do that.
May you find the calm that you are seeking.
May you experience first hand bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness, be it permanent, or temporary.
~D

RE: Is this the way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness?
Answer
6/11/14 6:59 PM as a reply to Fusions op.
I feel like I need to clarify this falseness of perpetual bliss model cause its written in a tone that might suggest that there won't be any bliss or that bliss is in finite quantities. What Daniel wrote have good reason (like not making people rise too much hope that will get in the way later) to it but lets not repeat mushroom factor and be more accurate and to the point.

I can make bliss out of nothing in my body, in world around me, colors can glow with colors at almost no effort at all, one catch though: even single selfing sensation in mind I do not stop in time and its bliss is gone. As they say easier it come easier it go. And clinging to such sensations is directly causing suffering and bliss not arising. Its best that any sensation of being worried about it to not arise at all, that way its the best as dwelling in impermanence can make subtle clinging or idiotic thought of rationing it... this ocean is infinite, no need to ration it!. Single thought about permanence of those sensations or that they will always be there and its gone. Single thought about actually satisfying myself with them and they are gone, single thought that they are me and they are gone. Without clear seeing 3C there all the time won't be any bliss, none at all.

and in reality there is not satisfaction from those bliss sensations. Not now, not after some time, not ever, nor they are me and they will definitely not last forever. It can be treated as momentary gift from God or as result of clear enough mind. Whichever one likes. But never as something permanent never-ending bliss, never as way to satisfaction and never as something that comes from you or is you.

in second paragraph I wrote 'I can make bliss' by which I meant that it happen indirectly. I do not make any bliss but merely allow it to flow by opening valves of mind. Each process of selfing, clinging, aversion, emotions, etc is something that stop mind bliss fluids from flowing.

I am not finished in training in knowledge enough to know how precisely this work after this call for closing moment. There are various unskillful selves to stop and one that only interpret things but this one is not that unskilful, its tool to use, just interpreter that give sensations of doing something and not try to do anything. Its feeling differently in non confusing way so I keep it cause it helps me, its easier with it. So 'I' stop any unskillful self by blocking them but actually its no-self/anatta doing work, and its only interpreted as me doing anything. Unskillful selves (the ones that do think they are selves) have to be stopped in kinda recursive loop, like one sensation is injecting stop order to its children. Such self will exhaust itself in no time. This interpreter thing can be stopped too and it change state to more no-self like, without interpreter feedback informations. I actually prefer myself with it even if it is not very buddhist. Here I will go with Advaita Vedanta's True Self to be nicer than no-self. I do not see reason why non-confused version of 'self' should not be used if brain have that functionality built in. That is imho the difference between no-self and True Self. Some people claim there is none but I won't argue with them on this topic

anyway, its all tricky and slippery stuff which need years of practice to get right. Kinda like riding one wheel bike on a line and juggling. Not because its hard in itself to feel overabundance of bliss but because there is too much self in the way. Each closed chakra is a self. Each emotional blockade is self. It will all get in a way. One self disappears another appears. One have to program intentions of arising intentions in advance... Only once mind is pure enough which mean mind know how to do this it can be analyzed. Its not something that *you* do, just like you do not really drive your car. If *you*, your self was to drive a car you would even do as much as move single finger as selves do not do squat, they are interpreters but during human mind development they start to pretend they do stuff and somehow get confused to think they actually are in control which is false and not-true. Self trying to move your hand is like clenched phantom self-limb, just pointless suffering.

it is my way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness so I guess its on topic
I crossed fulfillment cause there is no such thing. You can be only not unfulfilled and while it might seem the same there is actually very big difference.

helpful?

RE: Is this the way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness?
Answer
6/12/14 4:55 AM as a reply to Paweł K.
Yes, but I don't see how just a thought arising can remove all sensations of bliss?

RE: Is this the way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness?
Answer
6/12/14 6:15 AM as a reply to Fusions op.
imagine dynamic volume control that make signal level eg. -12dB
if you have few sinuses then strongest will be scaled to -12dB and noise floor very very weak
if you have nothing then noise floor will be amplified to -12dB, bliss is being this in noise floor
that is one theory, maybe simplistic but in almost a year I wasn't able to think anything that was more fitting to what happens in mind when it comes to sensation strength with relation with each other.

When mind is empty it is possible to imagine sensations and feel them cause they will get amplified. Or imagine this: if you would not feel own body skin tension you would literally be able to imagine any sensation on the body or even better: by seeing someone touching his ankle you would feel yourself touching your ankle by amplifying mirror neuron response. But raise your own skin signal and you won't be able to feel those things and I do mean all of this as literally and directly as possible. I have those abilities.

it appear to be possible to amplify sensations on will, its what we do to amplify 'self' to proportions we use. We can amplify in this way bliss (actually its something else, more like using negative potential that make strong unpleasant sensations lower for a while and feel relief) too and its what we usually do. We take some pleasure and use it till it dry out. Its called using good karma. It always dry out and trap us in our creations of clinging we usually make when we feel anything pleasurable so they appear as something that makes us only suffer more. All for using something that is for free to take in reality that our selves are too *big* to enter this reality. Loose self, loose body, loose 'just a thought' and you will enter have enough of the good thing to never feel to have anymore of anything. You could also say that in Kingdom of God the less you have the more God gives you.

I know its hard to believe. So hard that I have myself thoughts of 'what if this all is bullshit?' quality but they immediately make all the bliss disappear and prove point of my theory. It would be ignorant thing to do to take this disappearance of bliss as proof of it being bad theory or defending theory that rely on non action by trying to raise bliss or think that somehow I imagined this bliss or can make this bliss with 'self'. By such thinking patterns we get to where we are: unenlightened and miserable. So instead we should see cause->effect chain and take is as a proof that thoughts, especially selfing and unskillful (desire, clinging, aversion, emotions, etc) are what deprive us from our happiness, deprive us of experiencing our Buddha nature. Besides, wasn't Lord Gautama advocating emptiness too as way of our liberation from suffering?

makes more sense now?

RE: Is this the way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness?
Answer
6/12/14 7:09 AM as a reply to Fusions op.
Fusions op:
Derek Cameron:
That being said, there are benefits, though perhaps not the ones you imagine in the beginning.

Could someone line these up for me ?

For me the most direct benefits are a relatively permanent tranquility and contentedness that either wasn't there before or wasn't noticed before, however you want to look at it.  The mind is free and relatively detached from thoughts.

To a degree, I for one did seek this stuff out, worked at it, there was curiousity about whatever "enlightened" people were talking about.  It's definitely not what I thought it was going to be.

RE: Is this the way to bliss, peace, fullfillment and happiness?
Answer
6/27/14 11:50 PM as a reply to B B.


What amazes me are the masses trying to define a concept that they cannot see. I received the gift of the knowledge of Perceptual Bliss in 1976 before perceptual was in the dictionary as an adverb. If you bother to google it, you will see, there is only one me.
Perceptual Bliss does exist, it is a matter of how and where you expect to attain it.
In living bodies, it is not a constant, yet a pursuit of it will generate positive energy that will have an influence on our own life as well as others. That is the purpose.
To manifest more positive energy in the world than there is negative. This is about all existence, not just our own.
Currently we are not manifesting more positive energy than there is negative.
If you truly seek Perceptual Bliss in the living, don't just focus on the self. Mend the self by being positive and share that positive energy with others to create the wave.
pb