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The second Jhana vs AF

The second Jhana vs AF
Answer
5/18/14 4:44 AM
If the goal of AF is to be constantly happy, why not just remain in strong second Jhana as it offers " When this state is really cultivated, the intensity of the pleasure of this state can become pretty much as strong as you can stand it." ?

RE: The second Jhana vs AF
Answer
5/18/14 7:36 AM as a reply to Thor Jackson.
2nd jhana is just pleasure not happiness.
You get happiness by not having to worry about self and that you can do within a lot of different traditions or even using own methods.

Sooner or later AF folks will have to increase their mindfulness and perception of all sensations to be 'actually free' just as Theverada folks will have to deal with their emotion side to really get 3rd path not to mention 4th path...

AF promises liberation without horrors of getting enlightened which is imho just stupid idea based on nothing solid really. Richard himself claimed enlightenment (I assume late real 2nd path to early 3rd) so probably his only self that remained was emotional one and his method was intended only for him and people like him who are already pretty much done to use and not normal folks to whom those methods cannot bring results he himself got.

Anyhow, if you had 2nd jhana you would know that deep inside it solves nothing. Its like eating good meal when you are sad. Its better than eating crappy meal or no meal at all but it don't solve your sadness, at least not in a long run, its just momentary distraction. On the other hand being happy doesn't mean you are always blissed out like in 2nd jhana. It only means that some deep issue is no more.

RE: The second Jhana vs AF
Answer
5/20/14 7:20 PM as a reply to Thor Jackson.
Jhana is impermanent and not to mention cruder and less refined than the more transcendental insight into the true nature of phenomena.  It temporarily suppresses the lhindrances of sense desire, ill will, sloth/torpor, restlessness and doubt in addition to giving a nice temporary bliss wave and a temporary peace of mind.

You would also have to keep sitting for several hours each day to keep the bliss up and the hindrances suppressed.  This might be good if you're a monk, but even if you were a monk the primary purpose of meditation is liberation (insight into the three characteristics) and not jhana.  It's much better to have the peace of mind as the default resting place rather than the place you can keep moving into, but are unable to become stabilized within.

RE: The second Jhana vs AF
Answer
5/22/14 4:56 PM as a reply to Thor Jackson.
I think you guys have missed the lessons of jhana.  Thor, you're on the right track with your thinking, here.  If you know how to reach the jhanas, then you have learned what the 5 hindrances are experientially and you can begin working on them during the day.  In my experience, the jhanas will manifest spontaneously during the day if you're practicing mindfulness correctly.  Nikolai (from the Hamilton Project) had some interesting practices post AF he was doing where the arupa jhanas were appearing during the day.  If I'm remembering correctly, he and Tarin posted some interesting discussions on there about how the PCE related to the arupa jhanas. 

Anyway, jhana practice should spill over into daily life!  You can use the techniques you use to get into jhana when you encounter problems during the day and this will bring you back to mindfulness more quickly.