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Phase Problem Graphs

Phase Problem Graphs
Answer
6/2/14 12:54 PM




Threw these together real quick. I'm thinking the first one is Reobservation and the second one is Dissolution. Perhaps it's switched. The first graph is sin^2x and cos^2x. Notice that at any value of x the y values add to 1. I don't know if this is profound dharma or merely plain mathematical fact (Pythagorean identity). 'Phenomena' is used loosely

Hope these help someone out there

RE: Phase Problem Graphs
Answer
6/2/14 1:18 PM as a reply to Droll Dedekind.
I have spent a lot of time thinking about those graphs and what the equations would look like.

My thoughts: you have to do this at least 2D with amplitude (which is sort of 3D), but really, to get at the thing well, you have to do it 3D with amplitude also.

Consider: Dissolution is actually like the first image, fear like the second, and reobservation like the third image if it were curling around like it was pasted on the inside of a hemisphere opening towards you, at least attention-wise:

RE: Phase Problem Graphs
Answer
6/2/14 1:21 PM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
Not sure why I can't get the images into the post... Thoughts?

RE: Phase Problem Graphs
Answer
6/2/14 1:37 PM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
Err, I'm gonna need some explanation about what your graphs represent. Admittedly, mine were under-labelled and loosey-goosey. Yours look out of this world.
My thoughts: you have to do this at least 2D with amplitude (which is sort
of 3D), but really, to get at the thing well, you have to do it 3D with
amplitude also.

Could you elaborate on this? If you specify some criteria for the most complete model you can conceive I'll likely end up making it (or at least trying). I'm a budding math major so I plan to continue geeking out with technical meditation models.

(to include images hit the image button and paste the link after hosting it on something like imgur)

RE: Phase Problem Graphs
Answer
6/3/14 1:29 PM as a reply to Droll Dedekind.
Take the center of attention and imagine it is the center of the drawing image.

Imagine that the lines show up where things are in phase and there is blackness where things are out of phase.

Fear is actually pretty regular from a phase point of view, though the center is out of phase, as with the rest of the Dark Night stages.

Re-observation is really chaotic but dense with lots of harmonics and richness of the chaos, but is is nearly all peripheral, and the center is out of phase.

Dissolution has very little about the whole field that is in phase at all, being the most out of phase of the Dark Night stages, and perhaps the most out except for things like ñ11.j4.j7 and 11.4.8, which are way out there.

RE: Phase Problem Graphs
Answer
6/3/14 6:27 PM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
Ah, that seriously demystified your drawings.

I got the persistent sense that I had seen the second drawing before. It reminds me of the synthetic geometry Frieda Harris included in the Thoth tarot. I proceeded to check a textbook on projective geometry, and sure enough


Very neat.

What are the highest standards you can think of for a complete DN phase model?

RE: Phase Problem Graphs
Answer
6/3/14 11:52 PM as a reply to Droll Dedekind.
I actually think I have seen it while doing candle flame practices that lead to these spirograph-like presentations that showed me the phase problems in glorious detail.

Those graphs are similar to what I was looking at, which is why I chose them.

Mathematically? It would be hard to come up with the equations. Any serious math geeks here? I could tell them what it looked like and they could try to model it...

Daniel

RE: Phase Problem Graphs
Answer
6/4/14 12:11 PM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
I don't have Mathematica at the moment, but maybe this could help

http://demonstrations.wolfram.com/CircleChordEnvelope/

RE: Phase Problem Graphs
Answer
6/22/14 8:20 AM as a reply to Droll Dedekind.
analyzed this relation of phenomena and attention and imho all of DN is attention lagging phenomena but not fully like in first graph. Actually it would be more proper to talk about not sinusoids but sensation and attention would be impulses of whatever shape and attention trying to fit sensation. DN would be when we kinda hover with attention around phenomena but rather lag compared to it and do not have possibility to actually change anything significant in it, not to mention end of sensations are not that nice. Its unpleasant cause we wanna influence content as its happening and that doesn't quite work and stuff just end despite not wanting that.

When attention is created fully AFTER sensation ended as its shadow then it doesn't interfere with sensation. There is no risk of hitting another sensation cause mind is pipelined and super-scalar so if mind take time on each single sensation it might appear as mind actually did samatha meditation on each single sensation and still notice every single one of them. Cool, right? Instead of wanting sensations to give something you can just be in samadhi and have bliss from experiencing anything =)

Every mode of 'anticipating' sensations are illusions and its rather better to not use them at all as no matter how they are cut they lead to confusion and in effect to suffering. Being attentive to this feedback informations of attention is all that is needed to make good decission and take proper action in time. No 'I control stuff' will ever make you react more proper or faster, especially if will itself is taking most of brain resources that could be assigned to analysis.

There is also other mode of not dwelling and letting stuff through kinda like phenomena was attention. This mode of phase operation is rather *quiet* compared to others and much more enlightened technically speaking. During A&P it also appear that attention is very close to phenomena almost being it but its illusion. This other quiet mode is something different, there is no mind noise associated with attention and noticing at all but still attention is present, as phenomena themselves, not something separate from it. This mode appear as much more fluid (movement wise) and clean and direct compared to any other modes that have duality and hence phase issues. Bliss from it is rather subtle but much more refined.

This quiet one and that delayed attention thing is what I personally can recommend to practice and be in all day long. If you notice being too close to sensations just make your attention lag even more instead of trying to be faster and anticipate it. Not only that will make noticing sensations easier and less stressful but also they will be just better and you will feel like you took a time to appreciate each moment instead of rushing with wanting this or that that is not there. It will also ultimately help with this last quiet mode by quietening mind and not making it such a big deal it would otherwise be. Mind have to experience highest heights of being to give it up to experience bliss of non-being.

RE: Phase Problem Graphs
Answer
6/22/14 4:37 PM as a reply to Droll Dedekind.
I tend to ask these dumb questions a lot, but that's only because I want to understand.

According to one view it is said that Dark Night is there because during that phase you get to know the suffering aspect of reality.

The phase problem approach implies to me that Dark Night is there because your attention is out of phase with reality.

Is it overly simplistic to present these two views this way? If it is not, how do they reconcile?

If it is, what is a better way to present and reconcile them?

RE: Phase Problem Graphs
Answer
6/23/14 4:34 PM as a reply to Trial And Error.
Its not like there are some fixed 'real' sensations to be seen but more like there is potential for sensation building up in brain which have to go somewhere eg. bringing it to attention center which will create consciousness of sensation and merge it into illusion of our consciousness (or not if one can see own consciousness as aggregate)

DN phase mismatch is configuration in which this potential start hitting awareness when it already build up so awareness is bombarded with a lot of impulses which it cannot process. Then potential fall down and awareness instance get no information at all but expect them. All that create typical to DN feeling that there is both too much stimuli and not enough of it. Also during this phase mismatch we end of sensations as its what hits awareness during its peak activity.

A&P starts when awareness is activated slightly earlier than potential rise up so that we see arising of sensations but also large portion of sensation itself without its end as awareness end earlier than sensation. Then awareness is slightly over time activated later and later making experience better and better, then there is peak experience and soon after peak dissolution nana starts because attention shifted even more. It is not all that bad but sooner or later attention will shift even more and it will start to suck. Mind learned how make awareness be triggered by higher and higher potential and because till now it was giving such good results it cling to the method and spiral down in DN cause of it.

This model is just a model. True reality of mind quite simple in comparison to models we tend to give create to describe it =)