Jason Snyder:
I have been listening to a lot of the Buddha at the Gas Pump Interviews (after finding out about it through Daniel's interview), and a lot of people report that after becoming enlightened they never really fall asleep, that the witnessing consciousness always just continues.
Does anybody else have this experience? Is it associated with any of the Progress of Insight paths? If not, are we missing something or what?
These people are at the I AM realization phase, but Daniel's path does not go through that phase but goes straight to anatta. See: http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com.au/2007/03/thusnesss-six-stages-of-experience.html
I used to experience witnessing in sleep a few times when I went through I AM and found that it disturbs sleep. Thusness have also told me that it is very problematic and caused a decade of insomnia for him. Fortunately, due to advice from Thusness, I did not try to sustain that witnessing, instead focused on refining my experience and insights.
Thusness in 2006:
(12:03 PM) John: certain experiences should is considered quite dangerous and can cause a lot of harm.
(12:04 PM) John: only very qualified masters can teach these methods.
(12:04 PM) John: because the experience is considered a form of altered state of consciousness, it can be dangerous....
(12:04 PM) AEN: oic...
(12:05 PM) AEN: like wat kind of experience
(12:05 PM) John: i think experiencing presence in dreamless and dream stage should not be taught....rather only emptiness nature of manifestation...
(12:06 PM) John: and then should only focus on compassion, wisdom, equanimity, patience
(12:06 PM) John: just these...don't long for experiences...it will come naturally...when the time is right.
(12:06 PM) AEN: icic
(12:06 PM) John: wisdom is not the stages of meditation...
(12:08 PM) John: when our attachments diminishes and wisdom (the bond of the symbols dissolve) grows, we will experience our radiance presence naturally and propel to all relevant phases of the dream and dreamless state.
(12:12 PM) AEN: about the dream stage one yesterday i ask nai min (the friend who wrote the essay) whether he knows of which book which my master wrote about the 'shi shui fei shui'... he say yes its in one of the kai shi lu, but i cant find it.. but anyway he sent me his own.. i tink experience written down in computer?
(12:12 PM) AEN: hold on
(12:13 PM) AEN: ???????????? (I know 'like-sleeping-but-not-sleeping' is not something one can rush into)
??????????????????????,??????????? (First we must be able to maintain Awareness of our thoughts in our everyday life in every moment, in ordinary life never leaving the illumination of Awareness)
???????????????? (The power of Awareness's illumination will increase until when entering into sleep one does not lose that Awareness)
???????? (In sleep one will then have that illumination of Awareness)
?????????????,?????? (But having achieved this level, is that the 'like-sleeping-but-not-sleeping', I am not too sure)
??????,???????,?????????????? (What I can say for certain is that to achieve 'like-sleeping-but-not-sleeping', we need to practice in everyday life with both feet on the ground)
(12:14 PM) John: who wrote this?
(12:14 PM) AEN: the friend who wrote the essay
(12:14 PM) John: what did ur teachers say?
(12:14 PM) AEN: never say anything i tink?
(12:14 PM) AEN: cos he say ?????????????,??????
(12:14 PM) AEN: lol
(12:14 PM) John: that is not the way...
(12:14 PM) AEN: icic
(12:15 PM) John: because he cannot cope with his experience of consciousness, unable to let go of that experience that created this illusion...it is no good for his health
(12:15 PM) John: and ur teacher too...
(12:15 PM) AEN: oic
(12:15 PM) AEN: but my teacher say she is very awake leh
(12:15 PM) AEN: lol
(12:15 PM) John: yeah....i am too... but she must dare to die
(12:16 PM) John: totally subsides
(12:16 PM) John: nothing at all
(12:16 PM) John: it is a problem
(12:16 PM) AEN: oic
(12:16 PM) John: she must not misunderstand
(12:16 PM) AEN: n...it is no good for his health --> i mean she doesnt feel tired
(12:16 PM) AEN: even though she 'shi shui fei shui'
(12:16 PM) AEN: tats wat i remember her saying
(12:16 PM) John: coz she is not attached to the tiredness
(12:16 PM) AEN: isit
(12:17 PM) AEN: haha
(12:17 PM) John: the Presence experience requires one to know how to feel the great death then one can understand emptiness
(12:18 PM) AEN: oic
(12:18 PM) John: and the subsiding of presence in deep sleep is important because it revitalizes
(12:18 PM) John: it is not that nothing is known
(12:18 PM) John: it is just it is another form of manifestation
(12:18 PM) AEN: icic
(12:19 PM) John: when one say that someone drinks in new york, the one is singapore get drunk
(12:19 PM) John: it is non local...
(12:19 PM) John: not letting one completely dissolved, one will not experience that.
(12:20 PM) John: and the understanding is always centered.
(12:20 PM) AEN: oic..
(12:20 PM) John: i told u that i have gone through 10 years of insomnia right?
(12:20 PM) AEN: yea
(12:21 PM) John: i do not treat that as a stage, i treat that as a problem
(12:21 PM) John: i am totally clear
(12:21 PM) AEN: oic
(12:21 PM) John: throughout