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Working on "stuff"
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Working on "stuff"
12/17/08 12:33 AM
Forum: Practical Dharma

I'd like to hear thoughts about whether or not it is possible to work on issues on a subconscious, sensate level. Sometimes when I'm sitting an emotion or feeling will pop up (i.e. guilt, sorrow, etc.), but with no event attached to it that I am conscious of. I examine it as I would any other object, and watch it's A&P.

Does it make sense that issues which we may have hidden in the recesses of our minds in self-defense could manifest during meditation at a subconscious level, but with the associated feelings at a conscious level and be dealt with just by observing in this manner?
Or is it more likely that issues can only be dealt with in the light of focused awareness?
RE: Working on "stuff"
12/17/08 1:24 AM as a reply to John Finley.
Just my experience: looking at the A&P of emotions, especially out of context during meditation, will de-charge the strong, unconscious, cause-effect nature of our stuff -- at a minimum.

From there it seems like a bit of grace and a fair amount of work to really deal with deep-seated issues. It takes a gestalt kind of understanding to really break the circle. It seems like what makes our stuff rigid and dead is that our premises include our conclusions in a way that props up our self. Finding some room to really question premises is the trick and it never seems possible until after it happens and then it's kinda a "duh, of course" situation.

My experience is that deep seated stuff doesn't get touched by mearly watching the A&P of the tell-tale emotions or feelings -- there's an endless source that can keep producing those feelings. But watching it does eventually reduce the flow (usually after it seems like the flow increases!) to where it can be more consciously investigated.

Hope that helps!
RE: Working on "stuff"
12/18/08 8:28 AM as a reply to John Finley.
- sounds like you are conscious to me! We are conditioned to think that to 'work' on something we have to struggle with it on a 'content' (story) level - to create a stream of meaning from phenomena (then we label it 'reality' and dive into it).

“I examine it as I would any other object, and watch it's A&P.“ That sounds right. Then you don't solidify it by giving it a bunch of stories (content) to justify its existence. It may seem kind of pointless to do this but it is actually a very powerful practice. Remember to keep the whole body in the picture and watch the A&P closely.
RE: Working on "stuff"
12/18/08 9:13 AM as a reply to John Finley.
I'm realizing that it was important to say that my reply was from a pre-stream-entry viewpoint. So it's gotta be taken on that level. Sorry.
RE: Working on "stuff"
12/18/08 9:54 AM as a reply to John Finley.
I thought every thing you said was right on target. Just thought it might help to add a couple of pointers on working with it.
RE: Working on "stuff"
12/19/08 9:58 PM as a reply to John Finley.
I would agree, though I am not sure that this is necessarily only pre-stream entry advice. Seeing sensations come and go works at many levels and is generically good advice whenever one is working on fundamental insight or even just trying to deal with the emotions and our issues. I think that this is all good advice in general terms.