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Bhante Vimalaramsi
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9/14/10 2:47 PM
I begin this post because I seen there was another thread about Bhante Vimalaramsi. ( BV )

I wish to talk about my personal experience of BV, perhaps I am worrying about nothing but after contemplating this issue I dont think I am worrying about nothing.

I am concerned for the welfare of vulnerable people who may go to BV for spiritual guidance.

I was a monk for 2 years in Thailand, Malaysia and Singapore. For most of those 2 years BV and I were close friends.

We lived in various temples together. There was a little gang of Western monks who practised together. BV was on the outskirts of our little free lance group. I even attended some of his meditation retreats he led in Malaysia after he returned from Burma.

Why I am concerned about the welfare of vulnerable people who may look to BV for spiritual guidance is that over the years on various serious topics I have witnessed fist hand BV radically change his story about his meditation experiences and alleged attainments.

I have challenged BV about his various contradictory stories he used and uses now about what happened to him in Burma. His response to my first challenge was to say that when he first arrived back in Thailand-Malaysia after Burma he was confused about what had happened to him so the things he said may not have been very accurate.

Of course his story sounds feasible until I say that I talked to a Korean monk who was in the same temple as BV in Burma and that the Korean monk alleges BV hardly done any meditation at all in Burma.

Of course Korean monks often are hard core meditators, especially the ones who visit Theravada countries, ( I met a few of them in Thailand ) and perhaps his standard of " hardly done any meditation" may mean that BV only done 15 hours daily?

So perhaps BV really did do lots of meditation?

BV swore me to secrecy but he told me the angels/devas visit him in his meditation and have informed him that what he is teaching is identical to what Buddha taught.

Does BV swear many of his students to secrecy?

Has he told many other people they must keep his secret meditation attainments confidential?

And in the meantime of course his confidant students are V V E E R R Y Y loyal to him.

Knowing BV for some years and having seen him change his story about his attainments and also witnessing what looked like a compulsion to be revered it is my feeling that BV is a disqualified monk.

In my view, judging by the monks four parajika vinaya rules he is disqualified as he has broken one of the rules of disqualification.

In my view if you listen to what BV says on Youtube he has many extreme views e.g. he says all babies who are born dead or die very early were butchers in their last lives and they died as a result of their negative kamma-vipaka.

In my view we all have opinions and we are entitled to them, but BV does not say it is his opinion that children who die young were nasty butchers etc. He says the children were butchers e.g. he knows first hand their karminc conditioning.

Considering my personal experience of BV over the years I am very concerned that he may damage vulnerable people.

Shendy.

RE: Bhante Vimalaramsi
Answer
9/14/10 3:33 PM as a reply to stephen hendry.
stephen hendry:

BV swore me to secrecy but he told me the angels/devas visit him in his meditation and have informed him that what he is teaching is identical to what Buddha taught.


Dude that is one typical case of a guy who believed what the depths of his fear-full (or bliss-full) mind wanted to believe. If only he had known that it was possible to fall into such delusions as a result of meditation practice, maybe he wouldn't have.

I have myself during practice come across such whisperings. I had a few months of my first-path A&P during which it felt I understood "The Truth," which is something like "the whole universe is a permanent act of lovemaking between shiva and shakti," or something to that effect. I have some embarrassing posts here on DhO juggling with a slightly less lavish version of the ideas I had at that time, I won't bother to point it out (and I will feel really silly if you do Daniel and Tarin).

Looking in retrospect, it seems very foolish, and I can clearly see that the core of "knowing The Truth," was simply feeling that way (in this case, feeling that life was a constant act of lovemaking), without any objective content or thesis at all. I can easily imagine me getting stuck into such a delusion if I didn't have enough critical thinking to backtrack why and how I came to those beliefs.

The ensuing dark night helped a lot also emoticon. However, during my first dark night, I also came to the conclusion that life was pointless and worthless, and that other people didn't see that because of being idiots. Now every time I walk in the park I can clearly see who was the idiot then emoticon

Rapture and pain can both feel like understanding. But every "conceptual construction" which derives from such "understanding" is usually incredibly biased! And in fact, the act of delusion can easily be changed into an act of understanding by only a slight change of perspective: it is clear that BV clearly "feels as if" angels/devas visit him in his meditation and have informed him that what he is teaching is identical to what Buddha taught, and if he could see it that way (instead of buying into the content), he would have a great insight into the tricky nature of belief and his own mind. Instead, he has become a poor silly, lost dude, liable to drag others into the same shit-hole.

Anyone else here has stories of silly stuff they came to believe because of their practice?

RE: Bhante Vimalaramsi
Answer
9/14/10 4:33 PM as a reply to Bruno Loff.
Bruno.

I love your response.

It made me laugh so much.

I take my hat off to you.

Shendy.

RE: Bhante Vimalaramsi
Answer
9/16/10 5:57 PM as a reply to stephen hendry.
When I first started reading your post I thought you were going to say BV was a child molester or a mass murderer. So you've heard from someone else that maybe he didn't practice as much as he claims to and he speaks openly about attainments. I'm relieved!

As to his violation of the vinaya, I am guessing that you mean #4 "Boasting that one has realised a high spiritual attainment, knowing that one is lying" (my emphasis).

Not being a mind reader, I have no idea what attainments he has attained nor do I know if he was boasting about them - keep in mind that you are on a site dedicated to creating a space where people can speak openly about practices and attainments.

BV makes some odd statements at times - can't argue with that. But if we don't allow quirky teachers then there will be no place for me. Generally, I find BVs teaching a hands on - you can do it and this is how I did it - approach. You say you have taken some retreats with him. I am curious what your experience with the practices were. For those unfamiliar with him he teaches the jhanas as a cultivation of tranquillity, happiness, and insight using the Suttas as a guide. Is there something in his approach that you feel is in error?

-Chuck

RE: Bhante Vimalaramsi
Answer
9/16/10 6:25 PM as a reply to Bruno Loff.
Bruno Loff:
Anyone else here has stories of silly stuff they came to believe because of their practice?


Hi Bruno,
Do hell realms and past lives qualify as silly?

RE: Bhante Vimalaramsi
Answer
9/17/10 2:58 AM as a reply to Chuck Kasmire.
You believe they exist anywhere beyond your (meditation induced super-powered) imagination? And if so, why? And if you have a reason, can you give experimental evidence? Such as "writing a note" in this hell realm, and getting another equally skilled meditator to read it?

RE: Bhante Vimalaramsi
Answer
9/17/10 9:49 AM as a reply to Bruno Loff.
I guess the answer is yes :-) Well, best of luck to you Bruno.