<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?> <rss xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" version="2.0"> <channel> <title>Vipassana: Noting/Mahasi Style</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_category?p_l_id=&amp;mbCategoryId=12377</link> <description>For discussion of Mahasi style noting and related vipassana practices</description> <pubDate>Sun, 19 Oct 2014 00:31:31 GMT</pubDate> <dc:date>2014-10-19T00:31:31Z</dc:date> <item> <title>RE: Buddha Pong: Report from the field</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5605068</link> <description>This is excellent, Derek. Feeling grateful for the effort you put into this. It will really help new users get up to speed.</description> <pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2014 23:21:42 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5605068</guid> <dc:creator>Kenneth Folk</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-14T23:21:42Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Buddha Pong: Report from the field</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5605065</link> <description>Thanks for bug report and suggestions, Simon. And thanks for noting with me on the app! I&amp;#039;ve enjoyed our sessions.</description> <pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2014 23:20:04 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5605065</guid> <dc:creator>Kenneth Folk</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-14T23:20:04Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Buddha Pong: Report from the field</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604150</link> <description>It&amp;#039;s fun, and it helps build a sense of a real community.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It must have been a lot of work for your developer. Are you still taking feature requests? It would be nice if it displayed sideways on an iPad. Also, I have my iPad connected to speakers that go to sleep and take five seconds to wake up after first hearing a sound. Not sure what/if anyone can do anything about that LOL.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Let&amp;#039;s see if I&amp;#039;ve got this right:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 24px"&gt;&lt;strong&gt;BUDDHA PONG CHEAT SHEET&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;img src="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;i&amp;#x2e;imgur&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;puaZOI7&amp;#x2e;jpg" /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 18px"&gt;To set up your community photo&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Go to the ME tab and tap the default photo. Buddha Pong will take a new photo for you.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 18px"&gt;&lt;strong&gt;To get noting instructions&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Go to the CONNECT tab and tap HOW? Tap Back when you&amp;#039;re done reading.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 18px"&gt;&lt;strong&gt;To initiate a connection&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Go to the CONNECT tab and tap CONNECT. This will send a notification to everyone who is Available. The solid CONNECT button turns into a spinning circle. Wait a few minutes until someone answers your request (or press Cancel if you don&amp;#039;t want to wait). When someone answers, you will hear their voice.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 18px"&gt;To make yourself available for others to connect to&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Go to the ME tab and toggle Available to ON. You will now get a notification whenever anyone is looking for a connection. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 18px"&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;To respond to incoming connection requests&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Go to the CONNECT tab and press CONNECT.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 18px"&gt;&lt;strong&gt;To see who is available&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Go to the LOBBY tab to see who has marked themselves as Available.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 18px"&gt;&lt;strong&gt;To see recent community activity&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The NEWS tab builds a sense of support and community by showing you how active other people have been recently.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 18px"&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;To see how many people are in Buddha Pong right now&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Before you open the app, the number in the red circle shows you how many people have the app open right at this moment. In my screenshot, that number is 1. It is not be necessary for anyone else to have the app open for you to initiate a connection. All available people will be alerted when you tap CONNECT.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;img src="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;i&amp;#x2e;imgur&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;jKFLX4w&amp;#x2e;jpg" /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 18px"&gt;&lt;strong&gt;If you get a crash in iOS 8&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The message at the top of the CONNECT tab concerns crashes in iOS 8. Tapping it takes you to a help text on how to adjust your Settings for Buddha Pong. Tap the Back link to return to the CONNECT tab.</description> <pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2014 16:46:19 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5604150</guid> <dc:creator>Derek Cameron</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-13T16:46:19Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Buddha Pong: Report from the field</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603585</link> <description>As we discussed before, there is definitely an issue with alerts as I never get a vibration or hear a sound. A few other bugs I noted:&lt;br /&gt;-Sometimes, to number of people available go into negative. I think it&amp;#039;s happen when we try to connect and there is no one online, but someone is disconnecting from the app while we are waiting (or something similar).&lt;br /&gt;-Once, the app tried to connect with myself. &lt;br /&gt;-Maybe not a bug but a delibarate choice of implementation, but there was an instance when I attempting a connection and someone else was doing the same (we would both be shown as &amp;#034;waiting to meditate&amp;#034; in the lobby) but the app insisted that there was nobody online instead of connecting us to each other.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Beside that, it works great. Some other suggestions:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;-The possibility of putting comments on our profile or contact infos.&lt;br /&gt;-The possibility of extending the 10 minutes if both users agree to do so. But that might goes against the spirit so I&amp;#039;m not sure it&amp;#039;s a good idea. The forced 10 minutes as the advantage of making the interaction more impersonal, and having people hook randomly with others, eliminating some social awkwardness.</description> <pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2014 18:28:50 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603585</guid> <dc:creator>Simon T.</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-12T18:28:50Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Buddha Pong: Report from the field</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603460</link> <description>Hi Derek,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;When &amp;#034;available&amp;#034; is toggled to the on position on your profile page (recommended), you&amp;#039;ll get a push notification anytime someone taps the &amp;#034;Connect&amp;#034; button on the home screen. It will say the name of the person who wants to connect. For example, if I tap the connect button, everyone who is available will see &amp;#034;Kenneth wants to meditate with you.&amp;#034; I almost always have my phone on silent, so my phone vibrates whenever a push notification shows up. I think there is a tone if your phone is not on silent, but it vibrates either way, so you know when someone sends out the broadcast invitation.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The little red badge with a number is telling you that someone is currently in the Buddha Pong app on their iPhone or iPad. If the number is one, there is one person there, if it is two, there are two people with the app open at this very moment, etc. This is a realtime notification; as soon as they leave the app, the number will disappear.</description> <pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2014 12:33:35 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603460</guid> <dc:creator>Kenneth Folk</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-12T12:33:35Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Buddha Pong: Report from the field</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603049</link> <description>I am quite new to iPad. Am I supposed to hear a sound when someone wants to connect with me? Also, what does the red circle with a &amp;#034;1&amp;#034; in it mean, and what do I do about it?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;img src="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;i&amp;#x2e;imgur&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;jKFLX4w&amp;#x2e;jpg" /&gt;</description> <pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2014 20:07:15 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5603049</guid> <dc:creator>Derek Cameron</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-11T20:07:15Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Buddha Pong: Report from the field</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5602097</link> <description>Update: Someone posted about Buddha Pong on Reddit a few days ago and we got a nice influx of new users.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;reddit&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;r&amp;#x2f;Meditation&amp;#x2f;comments&amp;#x2f;2i8let&amp;#x2f;buddha_pong_an_iphone_app_to_connect_with_people&amp;#x2f;"&gt;http://www.reddit.com/r/Meditation/comments/2i8let/buddha_pong_an_iphone_app_to_connect_with_people/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Still haven&amp;#039;t worked a lot of the bugs out, and even so, people are using the app, so I&amp;#039;m very encouraged. User base is growing steadily, and our Daily Average User/Monthly Average User ratio is steadily averaging between 30% and 35% for months now. Anything over 20% is considered healthy for a social app, so we&amp;#039;re in good shape for user engagement. Most of all, I keep seeing how much people are benefitting from the experience of noting with others around the world. This is one of the most fulfilling projects I&amp;#039;ve ever worked on. And I personally use it many times a day, especially looking out for new users I can connect with and give a quick orientation if they need it.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If you haven&amp;#039;t tried it yet, please download Buddha Pong and give it a go. Then tell me what you think so we can continue to make it better.</description> <pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2014 01:24:44 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5602097</guid> <dc:creator>Kenneth Folk</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-10T01:24:44Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Some questions about noting.</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601609</link> <description>Hey,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;To me, it sounds like a noting related practice. I&amp;#039;ve read a couple of books by Theravada teachers, and often they describe it as &amp;#034;noticing&amp;#034; practice. Essentially, the goal is to try to see everything happening on its own and take your hands off the wheel. The whole thing is actually a lot messier than it might seem and techniques kind of blend into each other. That said, when I was meditating regularly, I didn&amp;#039;t really love noting out loud either, but I found that it keeps you honest and it can help you discover things you might be ignoring or identifying with.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;heath:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;I have noted my &amp;#039;inner voice&amp;#039; or &amp;#039;noting voice&amp;#039; in the past, but recently a couple months ago I had a very distinct experience of my &amp;#039;noting voice&amp;#039; becoming a distinct thing &amp;#039;exactly where it was&amp;#039; in a hard sense, and it wasn&amp;#039;t me or mine in that instant. [Edit: In that moment it seemed to be just a part of the whole field of experience. All the sensations I was experiencing/noting during that time and the &amp;#039;noting voice&amp;#039; itself all became the same thing for an instant.] Am I on to something? At the time I felt that I had just had a breakthrough, but wasn&amp;#039;t sure how to proceed except to continue looking at the &amp;#039;noting&amp;#039; itself each time it came up.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This sounds like the first insight - mind and body. I&amp;#039;m not an expert on insight by any means, though. Mainly I want to bump your thread for you - maybe someone else can give you some better answers. &lt;img alt="emoticon" src="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dho-theme/images/emoticons/closed_eyes.gif" &gt;</description> <pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2014 13:26:55 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601609</guid> <dc:creator>Not Tao</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-09T13:26:55Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Buddha Pong: Report from the field</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5600830</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Simon T.:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Kenneth Folk:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;Hi Simon,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Yes, there is a sound along with the push notification, and when the phone is on silent it vibrates if you have it configured that way in Settings.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Yes, a timeout on the available toggle could be a cool feature. Thanks!&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Is there supposed to be a Settings section for Buddha Pong in the iPhone Settings app? I don&amp;#039;t have one. I run IOS 7.1 on an iPhone. I read that you are supposed to have at least 1 setting when running IOS 8 (for the mic/camera issue), but I don&amp;#039;t have anything at all. I removed and installed it again and still no settings.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;In iOS 7 the only settings for Buddha Pong are on the Profile (Me) page in the app itself. Otherwise, just use the generic settings in your Settings app to configure your phone to vibrate when silent, etc. You&amp;#039;ve probably already done this.</description> <pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2014 01:15:24 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5600830</guid> <dc:creator>Kenneth Folk</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-08T01:15:24Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Buddha Pong: Report from the field</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5600607</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Kenneth Folk:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;Hi Simon,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Yes, there is a sound along with the push notification, and when the phone is on silent it vibrates if you have it configured that way in Settings.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Yes, a timeout on the available toggle could be a cool feature. Thanks!&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Is there supposed to be a Settings section for Buddha Pong in the iPhone Settings app? I don&amp;#039;t have one. I run IOS 7.1 on an iPhone. I read that you are supposed to have at least 1 setting when running IOS 8 (for the mic/camera issue), but I don&amp;#039;t have anything at all. I removed and installed it again and still no settings.</description> <pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2014 16:44:46 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5600607</guid> <dc:creator>Simon T.</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-07T16:44:46Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Buddha Pong: Report from the field</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5600095</link> <description>Hi Simon,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Yes, there is a sound along with the push notification, and when the phone is on silent it vibrates if you have it configured that way in Settings.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Yes, a timeout on the available toggle could be a cool feature. Thanks!</description> <pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2014 22:46:35 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5600095</guid> <dc:creator>Kenneth Folk</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-06T22:46:35Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>Some questions about noting.</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5599936</link> <description>First, thank you to anyone who happens to answer my questions and for everyone who contributes to making this a cool place. Second, thank you to Daniel for writing a book that is helping me greatly and has inspired me tremendously. I have never had a formal sitting practice until recently, but have always been on my &amp;#039;path&amp;#039;. I am not sure where I am path-wise in the MCTB model and am tired of trying to figure it out because I always think I am more advanced than I am. My practice has picked up significantly over the past few months. I now sit 1-1.5 hours per day each morning and have been doing this for about 5 weeks. I also practice throughout the day as much as possible. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&amp;#039;Noting&amp;#039; has always seemed forced to me until recently when I realized it is probably not a hugely different technique to what I have done throughout my life (on and off) which is full body awareness of sensations, usually starting at my toes and moving up until I can feel my entire body at once. The next three paragraphs describe what I am currently considering my &amp;#034;noting practice&amp;#034; and I am trying to confirm that I am in line with what others here would consider an adequate noting practice.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It is not possible for me to note sublingually or &amp;#039;mentally&amp;#039; at a rate of 40 notes per second, but I can certainly experience 40 distinct sensations per second. I have a spatial awareness of where these sensations occur in my body, what their particular intensity is, and so forth. I can sense pricks, tingles, pressures, waves, and more as all distinct without giving a name to them. When I am resting in that state, experiencing distinct sensations moment to moment, I count that as &amp;#039;noting&amp;#039; and that is how I have been doing noting practice for the most part. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As my mind begins to settle and the experience of these sensations in and on my body becomes the predominant experience (meaning verbal chatter, emotions, etc have mostly subsided and I have a calm mind), I can begin to notice my awareness of sensations encompassing a larger portion of my body. Perhaps it was just my legs and hands at first. Then it is my arms and shoulders, hands, legs, and now my feet, and now my throat, and so on. Awareness of sensations in these body regions is more or less predominant in any given moment, but I attempt to subtly include other regions as things become more stable. Eventually I aim to include basically my entire body at once, including smaller and smaller regions of my body once I am able to sense my entire body in a broad sense all at once consistently. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Now, I DO do verbal/mental noting interspersed with the practice I described above, but it is not the predominant effort that I am making. I note &amp;#039;thinking&amp;#039; of course, as well as &amp;#039;curiosity&amp;#039;, &amp;#039;investigation&amp;#039;, &amp;#039;feel-in&amp;#039;, &amp;#039;see-in&amp;#039;, &amp;#039;image&amp;#039;, &amp;#039;talking&amp;#039;, &amp;#039;moving&amp;#039; (meaning I notice my attention moving toward something), and other things. If there is a particularly sharp prick in a finger or leg, I will note that with whatever word seems appropriate at the moment. Sometimes if an arm becomes predominant, I will note &amp;#039;arm&amp;#039;, and then back to noticing my whole body.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Questions: &lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;1. Am I basically doing the practice correctly? Does MCTB consider &amp;#039;noting&amp;#039; to be primarily/only the sublingual/mental designation of a single sensation one after another or can MCTB noting encompass what I&amp;#039;ve mentioned above about simply &amp;#039;sensing&amp;#039; each of the 40-something sensations arising each second without verbal designation? To clarify: there is a &amp;#039;knowing&amp;#039; involved in sensing the sensations, but as I expand my awareness over the body, it obviously loses the specificity I would get from narrowing in and identifying each one individually. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;2. How do I deal with the compulsion to note &amp;#039;noting&amp;#039; whenever it arises? I can&amp;#039;t help but notice that the most prominent thing about my experience in those moments is that my attention is going &amp;#039;at&amp;#039; sensations, there is mild pressure in the attention areas of the head associated with the looking and seeing aspect of noting, and certainly a mild guttural pressure when my &amp;#039;inner voice&amp;#039; arises and designates something or conceives of something. I want to note that &amp;#034;I am&amp;#034; noting and I associate these sensations as being the sensations that I am, in that moment, noting. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I have noted my &amp;#039;inner voice&amp;#039; or &amp;#039;noting voice&amp;#039; in the past, but recently a couple months ago I had a very distinct experience of my &amp;#039;noting voice&amp;#039; becoming a distinct thing &amp;#039;exactly where it was&amp;#039; in a hard sense, and it wasn&amp;#039;t me or mine in that instant. [Edit: In that moment it seemed to be just a part of the whole field of experience. All the sensations I was experiencing/noting during that time and the &amp;#039;noting voice&amp;#039; itself all became the same thing for an instant.] Am I on to something? At the time I felt that I had just had a breakthrough, but wasn&amp;#039;t sure how to proceed except to continue looking at the &amp;#039;noting&amp;#039; itself each time it came up.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thank you for reading.</description> <pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2014 19:58:46 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5599936</guid> <dc:creator>heath</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-06T19:58:46Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Buddha Pong: Report from the field</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5599438</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Kenneth Folk:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Simon T.:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;If I leave the toggle &amp;#034;Available&amp;#034;, does it mean I get a notification if someone try to connect even if my phone screen is off?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I suggest another feature: planned sessions. It might take a while before we reach a critical mass that make is so that there is always someone available. A planned session would be nothing else than an alarm. Let&amp;#039;s say I set the alarm at 9pm. In tab, we can see a list of everyone alarms. The person can reserve a session. Then, at the planned time both users will receive an alarm and be connected. &lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thanks for the feedback, Simon! Yes, the &amp;#034;available&amp;#034; toggle means you get push notifications when the phone is in lock mode.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I love the planned sessions idea and also the way you&amp;#039;ve fleshed it out. Lemme ponder that for a minute, talk it over with David and see what we can do...&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Does the push notification make a sound? I always leave my phone on vibration so it would be nice to get a vibration when we are being notified. I came back to the app more than once to see that I had received a notification but didn&amp;#039;t hear anything nor had any vibration.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;On the other hand, if there is a sound or vibration when we get a notification, people might get annoyed eventually and put themselves unavailable. A nice feature then would be to be able to set an expiration time for our available status. </description> <pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2014 00:53:39 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5599438</guid> <dc:creator>Simon T.</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-06T00:53:39Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Buddha Pong: Report from the field</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5599427</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Simon T.:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;If I leave the toggle &amp;#034;Available&amp;#034;, does it mean I get a notification if someone try to connect even if my phone screen is off?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I suggest another feature: planned sessions. It might take a while before we reach a critical mass that make is so that there is always someone available. A planned session would be nothing else than an alarm. Let&amp;#039;s say I set the alarm at 9pm. In tab, we can see a list of everyone alarms. The person can reserve a session. Then, at the planned time both users will receive an alarm and be connected. &lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thanks for the feedback, Simon! Yes, the &amp;#034;available&amp;#034; toggle means you get push notifications when the phone is in lock mode.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I love the planned sessions idea and also the way you&amp;#039;ve fleshed it out. Lemme ponder that for a minute, talk it over with David and see what we can do...</description> <pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2014 23:29:18 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5599427</guid> <dc:creator>Kenneth Folk</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-05T23:29:18Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: New Mahasi translation--Manual of Insight</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5598094</link> <description>Hi! &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Is this the Manual of Insight your looking for?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;http://www.saraniya.com/books/mahasi-sayadaw/pdf/mahasi_sayadaw-vipassana_treatise_volume_i_part_i.pdf&lt;br /&gt;http://www.saraniya.com/books/mahasi-sayadaw/pdf/mahasi_sayadaw-vipassana_treatise_volume_i_part_ii.pdf&lt;br /&gt;http://www.saraniya.com/books/mahasi-sayadaw/pdf/mahasi_sayadaw-vipassana_treatise_volume_ii_part_i.pdf&lt;br /&gt;http://www.saraniya.com/books/mahasi-sayadaw/pdf/mahasi_sayadaw-vipassana_treatise_volume_ii_part_ii.pdf&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Peace&lt;br /&gt;Gunnar</description> <pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2014 01:35:28 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5598094</guid> <dc:creator>Gunnar Johansson</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-05T01:35:28Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Buddha Pong: Report from the field</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5597407</link> <description>Try it for the first time yesterday and found it effective. There is not enough user right now so it would be nice to get more visibility for this app. If I leave the toggle &amp;#034;Available&amp;#034;, does it mean I get a notification if someone try to connect even if my phone screen is off?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I suggest another feature: planned sessions. It might take a while before we reach a critical mass that make is so that there is always someone available. A planned session would be nothing else than an alarm. Let&amp;#039;s say I set the alarm at 9pm. In tab, we can see a list of everyone alarms. The person can reserve a session. Then, at the planned time both users will receive an alarm and be connected. </description> <pubDate>Sat, 04 Oct 2014 01:19:24 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5597407</guid> <dc:creator>Simon T.</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-04T01:19:24Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Buddha Pong: Report from the field</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5583901</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Eric M W:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I have an Android tablet around here somewhere, I&amp;#039;d love to hear when the app is out of Android.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Just talked to friend and collaborator Greg Little, a man with mad coding skills. He mentioned that porting Buddha Pong for Android might be a fun project.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;!!!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Stay tuned... &lt;img alt="emoticon" src="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dho-theme/images/emoticons/happy.gif" &gt;</description> <pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2014 00:58:35 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5583901</guid> <dc:creator>Kenneth Folk</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-15T00:58:35Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Buddha Pong: Report from the field</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5583790</link> <description>Buddha pong sounds like an awesome idea. Meditation can be so subtle and complex, and communication skills vary, so I can only imagine what a pain in the ass it is for teachers to sort out what their students are telling them. In the Visudimaggha, the author recommends that teachers develop the ability to read minds... which is kind of creepy but makes sense.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I have an Android tablet around here somewhere, I&amp;#039;d love to hear when the app is out of Android.</description> <pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2014 22:43:47 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5583790</guid> <dc:creator>Eric M W</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-14T22:43:47Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Buddha Pong: Report from the field</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5583582</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;ftw:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;I downloaded the app. Would use it if there wasn&amp;#039;t a facebook sing in.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Right! So glad you mentioned it. We went with Facebook login because we want people to use their real names. We are creating a culture of accountability, which we hope will keep people from spamming, sexting, pranking, etc., so that serious practitioners can feel safe and focus on practice. But some people don&amp;#039;t want to log in with Facebook, for some very good reasons. So...&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There is a secret backdoor!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Email me at kennethfolkdharma at gmail dot com and I will send you the instructions for email login. Also more than happy to personally walk new users through the signup process and/or first noting session, so don&amp;#039;t hestitate to reach out to me. Looking forward to it...</description> <pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2014 17:52:53 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5583582</guid> <dc:creator>Kenneth Folk</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-14T17:52:53Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Buddha Pong: Report from the field</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5583398</link> <description>I downloaded the app. Would use it if there wasn&amp;#039;t a facebook sing in.</description> <pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2014 06:36:27 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5583398</guid> <dc:creator>ftw</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-14T06:36:27Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Buddha Pong: Report from the field</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5583382</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Kenneth Folk:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Jason Snyder:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;Just as a personal testimony. I have used this app to connect with a few people including Kenneth. It&amp;#039;s great. I was nervous at first, noting with people I don&amp;#039;t know, but that was quickly dispelled because I just noted &amp;#034;nervous&amp;#034; and it was fine. Strangely enough, despite (and because) of its social constraints (no chit chat, 10 minute limit) I find it very intimate - sharing moment to moment experience with somebody I probably don&amp;#039;t know - much more so than most social interactions that I have on a daily basis. I often end the sessions feeling exhilerated. Highly recommended!&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thanks so much for saying so, Jason! I see on the Buddha Pong news feed that you and Aniseh noted together for ten minutes about a half hour ago. So happy to see it. Are you still available? I&amp;#039;ll meet you there now if you want to go another round...&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;I&amp;#039;m glad we were able to catch each other, that was great!</description> <pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2014 05:14:56 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5583382</guid> <dc:creator>Jason Snyder</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-14T05:14:56Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Buddha Pong: Report from the field</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5583285</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Jason Snyder:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;Just as a personal testimony. I have used this app to connect with a few people including Kenneth. It&amp;#039;s great. I was nervous at first, noting with people I don&amp;#039;t know, but that was quickly dispelled because I just noted &amp;#034;nervous&amp;#034; and it was fine. Strangely enough, despite (and because) of its social constraints (no chit chat, 10 minute limit) I find it very intimate - sharing moment to moment experience with somebody I probably don&amp;#039;t know - much more so than most social interactions that I have on a daily basis. I often end the sessions feeling exhilerated. Highly recommended!&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thanks so much for saying so, Jason! I see on the Buddha Pong news feed that you and Aniseh noted together for ten minutes about a half hour ago. So happy to see it. Are you still available? I&amp;#039;ll meet you there now if you want to go another round...</description> <pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2014 02:30:05 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5583285</guid> <dc:creator>Kenneth Folk</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-14T02:30:05Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Buddha Pong: Report from the field</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5583257</link> <description>Just as a personal testimony. I have used this app to connect with a few people including Kenneth. It&amp;#039;s great. I was nervous at first, noting with people I don&amp;#039;t know, but that was quickly dispelled because I just noted &amp;#034;nervous&amp;#034; and it was fine. Strangely enough, despite (and because) of its social constraints (no chit chat, 10 minute limit) I find it very intimate - sharing moment to moment experience with somebody I probably don&amp;#039;t know - much more so than most social interactions that I have on a daily basis. I often end the sessions feeling exhilerated. Highly recommended!</description> <pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2014 01:13:07 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5583257</guid> <dc:creator>Jason Snyder</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-14T01:13:07Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>Buddha Pong: Report from the field</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5583036</link> <description>&lt;strong&gt;Short version: come beta test this super cool app for social noting and help us build community around it. (Sorry, Android users, it&amp;#039;s only iOS for now.)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/id897707690?mt=8&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Instructions: download the free app from the link above or search for Buddha Pong in the app store. Buddha Pong works on iPhone or iPad, but for the App Store search, be sure to search for &amp;#034;iPhone apps only.&amp;#034; This happens by default on your iPhone, but your iPad will search for iPad apps and give you a blank search result until you change it to &amp;#034;search for iPhone apps&amp;#034; in the upper left of your screen.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Once you have it up and running and have signed in with Facebook, hit the &amp;#034;Connect&amp;#034; button on the Connect tab. This will send a push notification to anyone who has enabled &amp;#034;I&amp;#039;m available&amp;#034; on their Me tab.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;When someone else shows up, you&amp;#039;ll hear a chime. Begin noting immediately. No chit-chat or nervous giggling necessary. Most people who are using the app at this stage already know the ping pong noting technique. If you don&amp;#039;t know how to do it, tap the word &amp;#034;LEARN&amp;#034; in the middle of the connect screen.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Have fun!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Post your questions and suggestions on this thread. Very excited to hear from you. For a more detailed understanding of the evolution of the technique and the Buddha Pong app, please read on...&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;The setup: what is ping pong noting and why is it important?&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A few years ago while teaching Mahasi-style mental noting vipassana during a Skype session, I had an epiphany. For some years, I had been in the habit of asking a student to note aloud for a few minutes during a coaching session so I could hear exactly what they were noting and offer suggestions in real time. I would also demonstrate the technique for students by noting aloud in a continuous, real time stream of my own experience, noting once every couple of seconds. On this particular day in &amp;#039;07 or &amp;#039;08, it occured to me that we could this one step further; I suggested to the student, &amp;#034;You do one, I&amp;#039;ll do one. Ping pong style.&amp;#034;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So we did. It was easy. I monitored my experience in real time, and reported with a one-word label. &amp;#034;Itching,&amp;#034; I said.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&amp;#034;Hearing,&amp;#034; said the student.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&amp;#034;Interest,&amp;#034; I said.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&amp;#034;Curiosity,&amp;#034; she replied. We bounced this back and forth, about one note every two or three seconds.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Ping pong noting was a hit. I started teaching it to all my students. They loved it and so did I. To get a real time window into the experience of another human is a precious gift because&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;1) It normalizes human behavior. (To hear someone else report fear, shame, self-loathing, envy, guilt, or anxiety, is such a relief. &amp;#034;Oh, you mean I&amp;#039;m not the only one? Phew!&amp;#034;)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;2) It gives the noter an outlet for feelings that might otherwise go unexpressed forever, all in real time.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;3) It&amp;#039;s the most powerful tool I&amp;#039;ve ever encountered for teaching the Mahasi noting technique of vipassana meditation, as it allows the teacher to hear the student&amp;#039;s technique &lt;em&gt;as it&amp;#039;s happening&lt;/em&gt; and offer immediate feedback on how to improve the technique. Compare this to the less efficient but more commonly used method of asking a student to report what happened during his or her last meditation session and asking whether he or she remembered to note it.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;4) The feedback loop is very tight. Both meditators stay on task because the act of verbalizing what you are noticing as you are noticing it &lt;em&gt;proves&lt;/em&gt; that you are doing it. The ping pong-style interaction makes it impossible to drift very far or for very long; you are accountable to the other person to say something within two or three seconds in order to pass the baton back to them. Compare this to silent noting, where it&amp;#039;s easy to forget to note for long periods of time, often resulting in daydreaming or the dreaded &amp;#034;pleasant hypnogogic state&amp;#034; (aka dull, drifty dozing) that my teacher used to warn about.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;5) It builds community. It&amp;#039;s really sweet to hear the voices of your friends, loved ones, and community members. Humans are said to be the most social of animals on Earth (other than insects); we need to be with each other and we get emotionally and physically sick without lots of human interaction. Solo mediation, while well known to be valuable in so many ways, can be socially isolating. I know this first hand, having spent many years in self-imposed exile while meditating. Social meditation is a natural antidote to meditation-induced loneliness.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;6) It&amp;#039;s a way to be safe and intimate at the same time. You share your most intimate experience, one word at at time, but you don&amp;#039;t have to share anything you don&amp;#039;t want to share.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;7) Ping pong noting provides a container that allows you to stay in touch with people you care about but wouldn&amp;#039;t otherwise talk to regularly because of time constraints. I have a dear friend in L.A. who I&amp;#039;ve been meaning to catch up with. But I know catching up will take a couple of hours. I never seem to have so much time in a chunk. So I postpone the call. For years. The more I kick the can down the road, the less likely I am to call, because the volume of stuff we have to catch up on keeps growing. Sad, but true. But if we agree in advance on a ten-minute social noting session on a countdown timer, I can hear her voice, connect with her emotionally, and not feel any obligation to go beyond ten minutes. I don&amp;#039;t get to hear the content of her thoughts, but sometimes that&amp;#039;s OK, and it&amp;#039;s more about the sharing and intimate connection without all the content. Super cool!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;8) Last on this list, but most important of all from a Buddhist perspective, is that social noting is an extremely efficient way to practice Mahasi noting. Solo Mahasi noting, as originally taught in Burma beginning in the 1950s and now all over the world, is a powerful way to &lt;em&gt;objectify&lt;/em&gt; experience. (To objectify something is to take it as the object of attention.) Anything taken as object is intuitively understood to be &amp;#034;not me&amp;#034; or &amp;#034;not I.&amp;#034; This seems to be an observable law of human experience; I can never be what I am looking at, because if there is an &amp;#034;I&amp;#034;, it must always the be one who is looking. And since everything in experience can be objectified, it turns out that this &amp;#034;I&amp;#034; can never be found. Seeing this again and again and letting the implications of this unfindable &amp;#034;I&amp;#034; sink in over a lifetime, are the very essence of the understandings targeted by Buddism. &lt;em&gt;Objectification of experience leads to Buddhist awakening &lt;/em&gt;and Mahasi noting is a great leap forward in the technology of objectification compared to silent meditation without noting, which does not come with a built-in feedback loop.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In my observation, social noting is Mahasi noting turbo-charged. Speaking the note aloud ensures that you are objectifying your experience one phenomenon at a time, and being accountable to another human being keeps you on task throughout the entire session. Ten minutes of ping pong noting is ten minutes of nearly 100% efficient noting. Compare this to silent noting, where it is not unusual for an hourlong session to have so many periods of drifting and wool-gathering that you might be lucky to get five or ten minutes of clear noting during the entire hour.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Buddha Pong, the app&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So, social noting is da bomb, but there haven&amp;#039;t been many opportunities to do it. No way to find other people who want to do it, and no structured way to make the connection. Until now! I&amp;#039;ve spent about three years working with some really smart and creative folks to research, design, and build a mobile app that finds someone around the world who wants to note with you. Then it facilitates the audio connection and gives you a container for the session, automatically starting a ten-minute countdown timer. When the timer hits zero, it automatically ends the connection. You can do as many for as few ten minute sessions as you want to, but there is no expectation to do more than one, and no way to do a session longer than ten minutes.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Scroll back up to the top of this page for the link to the mobile app (sorry, iOS only), and brief instructions.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Can&amp;#039;t wait to note with you on Buddha Pong! We (the team of developers, designers, advisors, and funders who all worked very hard together to build the Buddha Pong app) are committed to improving the experience and building a community of people who want to note together, so please post your questions, comments, testimonials, and suggestions on this thread.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;On a personal note, I love this app. I use it almost every day, often multiple times a day. I would use it even more often if I could. &lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;This post is one of the first public announcements of the launch. &lt;/span&gt;So far there aren&amp;#039;t enough people using Buddha Pong for me to find a partner every time I open it. I&amp;#039;m hoping to eventually have enough users for critical mass, so there will be someone on the other end for everyone to note with a partner any time of the day or night, covering all the time zones. Super excited about that. We already have regular users in Australia, Italy, Canada, England, and the US, and occasional users from many other countries around the world. More coming every day.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Buddha Pong is still in beta testing mode, so please forgive us as we work out the bugs. It works pretty well, but there are still crashes and glitches from time to time, and it will take us some time to track them all down and fix them.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Tips and Tricks:&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Be bold. Tap the Connect button to invite others to note with you. This will send out a push notification to a bunch of people. Don&amp;#039;t just lurk and hope something will happen; no one will know you are there unless you tap the Connect button. It&amp;#039;s especially important in these early stages that you take the initiative to hook up with people rather than just lurking. Once you have a couple of sessions under your belt, you&amp;#039;ll see how easy and non-threatening it is and your confidence will grow.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Be patient once you tap the Connect button. It takes a half-minute or so to hook people up, so don&amp;#039;t back out too soon thinking the connection has failed. If you do, you and your potential partner will just end up chasing each other around the app without every hooking up.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Be available. Go to your Me tab and make sure your &amp;#034;Available&amp;#034; button is toggled on. Otherwise, you won&amp;#039;t get the push notifications when other people want to note, and you won&amp;#039;t hook up with anyone. Later, when we have critical mass, this won&amp;#039;t matter so much because there will always be someone somewhere in the world who wants to note. For now, we keep the network alive with push notifications.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Ask for help. If you hook up with me, Scott, Abre, or Vincent, you can ask for help at the beginning of the session. Just say &amp;#034;I&amp;#039;m new, can you please teach me the technique?&amp;#034; We&amp;#039;ll be happy to get you up to speed. You&amp;#039;ll be surprised at how easy it is to learn and how powerful it is for both beginners and advanced meditators.</description> <pubDate>Sat, 13 Sep 2014 19:53:11 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5583036</guid> <dc:creator>Kenneth Folk</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-13T19:53:11Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: A bit of trouble getting started</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5580136</link> <description>Thank you all so much for the very helpful replies.  It occurred to me after posting that, &amp;#034;Oh, I could just stand up if I start to drift off.&amp;#034;  Obviously I need longer sessions, and if my meditation turns out to be a nap instead, then I need to try again.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;And I am reassured that investigation into 3C&amp;#039;s won&amp;#039;t always be &amp;#034;just more thinking.&amp;#034;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Appreciation to all &lt;img alt="emoticon" src="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dho-theme/images/emoticons/happy.gif" &gt;</description> <pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2014 12:02:03 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5580136</guid> <dc:creator>Sax Ma'am</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-12T12:02:03Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: A bit of trouble getting started</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5580104</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;So that&amp;#039;s my second question.  What to do about drifting off?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;That&amp;#039;s very common. It&amp;#039;s called &amp;#034;sloth and torpor&amp;#034; in the old texts and the Buddha laid out an entire protocol for dealing with it. You can read more here:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;homepage&amp;#x2e;ntlworld&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;pesala&amp;#x2f;Pandita&amp;#x2f;html&amp;#x2f;mara&amp;#x2e;html&amp;#x23;Sloth"&gt;http://homepage.ntlworld.com/pesala/Pandita/html/mara.html#Sloth&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;As long as you can note consistently and pay attention, it doesn&amp;#039;t matter if you are drifting off, since the 3C&amp;#039;s manifest in every state of consciousness.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description> <pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2014 11:26:42 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5580104</guid> <dc:creator>Eric M W</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-12T11:26:42Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: A bit of trouble getting started</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5579871</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Sax Ma&amp;#039;am:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;Hoping for some tips here.&lt;br /&gt;I find that coming up with words is cumbersome &lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt; Try using 6 words at first - Thinking, Feeling, Seeing, Hearing, Tasting, Smelling. actually just the first 4 are the usual ones but if you smell and taste include them. Add more as you find useful...or not. when you are in a state that your super fast, then go for the da da da.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Sax Ma&amp;#039;am:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;So that&amp;#039;s my second question.  What to do about drifting off?&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Don&amp;#039;t worry about it too much at first, no sense to beat yourself up about anything as you start out. I did most of my &amp;#034;meditation&amp;#034; in a recliner starting out and I would often drift and often sleep. I personally think that good work can happen at this subconscious level. often I would come back from these refreshed and would meditate really well. Find a balance that works. (funky cool stuff can happen on the borderline of sleep...enjoy)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Sax Ma&amp;#039;am:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;Then there is the matter of investigating the three characteristics of my raw experiences.  It seems to me that this investigation requires thinking, such as &amp;#034;Oh, that breath will never happen again...  I wanted more out of that moment... That thought wasn&amp;#039;t me.&amp;#034;  Am I mistaken about this?  What is this investigation really supposed to be like?&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt; It&amp;#039;s fine to start out thinking about it and noticing opportunities to apply the 3C&amp;#039;s I still do that but then when the habit is formed you&amp;#039;ll find that you don&amp;#039;t have to intellectualize it as much as discern it as it occurs. &lt;br /&gt;Good luck&lt;br /&gt;~D</description> <pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2014 04:19:26 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5579871</guid> <dc:creator>Dream Walker</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-12T04:19:26Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: A bit of trouble getting started</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5579714</link> <description>Hi and welcome to the forum,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt; In addition to the other reply, drowsiness despite a good night&amp;#039;s sleep is so common it is designated as one of five mental hindrances. When one stops to think of all the nutty stuff one&amp;#039;s mind can do and yet there are only five mental hindrances (in this paradigm) and &lt;em&gt;sleepiness is one of them&lt;/em&gt;, then one can know: It&amp;#039;s very common terrain. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So you&amp;#039;re dealing with, if I read you correctly, the mental &amp;#034;sloth&amp;#034; not physical &amp;#034;torpor&amp;#034;. This is about attention. Just like when one is absorbed in a loved hobby and time flies and one stays up for hours and hours without concern for food or sleep, there is a state that is it&amp;#039;s opposite: I guess that&amp;#039;s sort of a laxity-boredom combination. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Over time, a person can be aware of the dreams coming up, going away, the lurching body, then waking up. If it&amp;#039;s just mental dullness, I think this usually only lasts about 15 minutes. If it lasts longer and I cannot shake it-- I take a nap.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Best wishes.</description> <pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2014 01:24:32 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5579714</guid> <dc:creator>katy steger</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-12T01:24:32Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: A bit of trouble getting started</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5579656</link> <description>Hi Sam, &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Many people on this board have recommended abbreviating noting in the past, as you mentioned, particularly as the frequency of noting increases.  It may be useful to shorten the verbal discursive thought note to simple syllables as your noticing speeds up (e.g. &amp;#034;ta, ta, ta&amp;#034; &amp;#034;da, da, da&amp;#034;) I find it useful to note the sense door I am attending to and then notice the vibratory quality (impermanance) of that particular sense door (e.g. touching/feeling, smelling, tasting, seeing, hearing, thinking.) Another thing I&amp;#039;ve found usefull in my own practice is noting particularly salient habitual patterns that tend to come up alot such as &amp;#034;judging/evaluating&amp;#034;, &amp;#034;craving&amp;#034;, &amp;#034;controlling.&amp;#034; I&amp;#039;ve also found it interesting to note as a sort of mantra or calling up a particular phenomena such as &amp;#034;releasing&amp;#034;, &amp;#034;ease&amp;#034;,&amp;#034;resting&amp;#034;, &amp;#034;disenchantment.&amp;#034; I find that these qualities are often present and noting them brings them to the forefront of attention. As far as sleepiness, I tend to get sleepy too and have come to accept that if I fall asleep, then it was probably the perfect thing to happen in that I probably needed sleep. Also, I do alot of reclining meditation when on retreat, alternating between sitting, and reclining, and have found that when I fall asleep during these times there is an interesting lucidity to the sleeping that I don&amp;#039;t often get when not immersed in retreats.  Many have mentioned dream yoga in previous posts on this board and I am beginning to see how this is possible and useful. I have found that these dreams are an opportunity to continue the practice while asleep and interestingly some of the content/metaphors within the dreams have been helpful for my practice as well.  If you wish to remain awake and not fall asleep, maybe alternative postures and or energetic practices (e.g. tai chi, yoga, walking, standing etc..) would be helpful to counteract sloth/torpor.  Also, simply noting &amp;#034;tired&amp;#034; &amp;#034;heavy&amp;#034; &amp;#034;sleepy&amp;#034; may be helpful, just notice it and move on without identification. Regarding the awareness of the 3 characteristics I generally find impermanence as the primary characteristic that presents itself in all sense doors and the disatisfaction and no separate selfness of phenomena seem to present themselves naturally as sensations become increasingly subtley impermanent. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I hope this helps.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Metta,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Drew</description> <pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2014 23:02:44 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5579656</guid> <dc:creator>Drew Miller</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-11T23:02:44Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>A bit of trouble getting started</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5579641</link> <description>Hoping for some tips here.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt; I&amp;#039;m rereading MCTB and trying to start an insight meditation practice.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt; Today I sat for a modest 15 minutes and practiced noting.  I was in draft from swamp cooler, in a room with finches, so I noted air on my right knee, air on face, chirp, breathing in, out, etcetera, and of course there was an endless supply of these things.  I find that coming up with words is cumbersome and I think maybe a quick syllable like &amp;#034;ah&amp;#034; to acknowledge sensations might be better.  (First question: Does that sound right to compress notes down to one syllable for everything?  I see from other logs that this isn&amp;#039;t a novel idea, so maybe I&amp;#039;ve answered that question.)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt; I have a couple more problems/questions.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt; I hadn&amp;#039;t sat for long before I found myself dreaming.  I don&amp;#039;t think I was fully asleep, but my mind was drifting off into the nonsensical sensations and scenarios that I associate with falling asleep.  Once that starts, the noting becomes infrequent.  My attempt to notice anything about those sensations didn&amp;#039;t go so well, either, as I just drifted off into la-la land.  It&amp;#039;s not an active process like day-dreaming or thinking which I know how to interrupt.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt; At night, I&amp;#039;m sleeping as well as I ever do and I don&amp;#039;t think I&amp;#039;m in a state of sleep deficit.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt; So that&amp;#039;s my second question.  What to do about drifting off?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt; Then there is the matter of investigating the three characteristics of my raw experiences.  It seems to me that this investigation requires thinking, such as &amp;#034;Oh, that breath will never happen again...  I wanted more out of that moment... That thought wasn&amp;#039;t me.&amp;#034;  Am I mistaken about this?  What is this investigation really supposed to be like?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt; Would appreciate feedback.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt; Thank you</description> <pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2014 22:23:10 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5579641</guid> <dc:creator>Sax Ma'am</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-11T22:23:10Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Noting background noise</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5578192</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;However I can always hear the ambient noise of the room I am in, my question regards how much I should pay attention to it. Should I try to note ever time I notice it and constantly switch between my breath and the background noise of the room? Or should I try to ignore it unless a sudden noise distracts me from the vibrations of my breath?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;Hi Fox,&lt;br /&gt;I think basically up to you. There is always some noise in the background. &lt;br /&gt;- If the nois is not so strong so it is easy to ignore it then I would ignore it and come back to the breath and let other sensations come naturally into my field of awareness. &lt;br /&gt;- If the nois is strong after noting it and hard to ignore it then I found it beneficial to keep focus on the vibrations that make up the nois for a while.&lt;br /&gt;- If you stucked to long what to do then just note the &amp;#039;confusion&amp;#039; in your mind and come back to the breath. You can&amp;#039;t go wrong making the habit after noting coming back to the breath.   &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Breaking sensations down to vibrations or cutting them off and move the awareness away from them are two ways to get insight into their true nature (impermanent, suffering, no-self) and this is what we looking for. Which one you use can change up to the conditions.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;hope it helps&lt;br /&gt;NM&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description> <pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2014 06:28:35 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5578192</guid> <dc:creator>Noting Monkey</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-08T06:28:35Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>Noting background noise</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5577794</link> <description>I&amp;#039;ve been trying to improve my mental noting but I have a few questions. I&amp;#039;m frustrated with my slow rate of progress and I think noting is the root of the problem.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In meditation the object of my attention is usually my breath. I concentrate on the breath and note any and all mental sensations that occur, lately I&amp;#039;ve been able to perceive subtler and subtler thoughts and associations.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;However I can always hear the ambient noise of the room I am in, my question regards how much I should pay attention to it. Should I try to note ever time I notice it and constantly switch between my breath and the background noise of the room? Or should I try to ignore it unless a sudden noise distracts me from the vibrations of my breath?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I think it is probably the former, even if such rapid switches are &amp;#039;jarring&amp;#039; and interfere with my ability to focus on vibrations. I would like some confirmation though.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thanks!</description> <pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2014 04:34:02 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5577794</guid> <dc:creator>Fox</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-07T04:34:02Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: perceived loss of stability</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5576154</link> <description>howdy hugh,&lt;br /&gt;instability is associated with different phases along the progress of insight and tends to stand out if you&amp;#039;re used to the very stabilizing sensations and mind states of concentration. i always try to see it as progress.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;to see whether its practice related or not requires a longer view than just a sit or two.  a practice log can help see the long term trends and a retreat will compress those swings into a tighter timeframe possibly unveiling certain patterns.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;tom</description> <pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2014 09:55:02 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5576154</guid> <dc:creator>tom moylan</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-02T09:55:02Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: perceived loss of stability</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5576142</link> <description>thank you for the answer, and for the link.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;With regards to needing to be &amp;#039;more consistent&amp;#039; with noting, do you mean maintaining the practice off the cushion, or just being regular with it or more applying it to each experience which arises?  EG to use my own recent experience, just note things like anger, despondency, giddyness etc??</description> <pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2014 08:09:49 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5576142</guid> <dc:creator>Hugh Fox</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-02T08:09:49Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: perceived loss of stability</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5575897</link> <description>Concentration just blocks thinking.  When you allow thoughts in you&amp;#039;ll see what your conditioning is.  With noting you&amp;#039;ll have to be more consistent to get much out of it.  When there&amp;#039;s awareness of experiences there&amp;#039;s no clinging but if you let go of that awareness then the old conditioning can arise and affect your actions quite easily.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;When the practice is done right there should be withdrawal symptoms because we are addicted to the neurotransmitters released based on our thinking.  The main thing to notice is if there&amp;#039;s greed, hatred or delusion present.  When they aren&amp;#039;t there then that&amp;#039;s some success right there. Build off of that.  It&amp;#039;s important to learn about dependent origination and to see it in your practice.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;dharmaseed&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;teacher&amp;#x2f;210&amp;#x2f;talk&amp;#x2f;9553&amp;#x2f;"&gt;http://www.dharmaseed.org/teacher/210/talk/9553/&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;</description> <pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2014 17:51:08 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5575897</guid> <dc:creator>Richard Zen</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-01T17:51:08Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>perceived loss of stability</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5575713</link> <description>Hi again,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&amp;#039;ve recently swtiched to mahasi noting style practice after 5-6 years concentration based practices, (with couple of years yoga before that to give full history).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Whether it is coincidental or an effect of the change in practice, I have noticed a loss of the kind of the mental/emotional stability I had been accustomed to over recent years.  My moods have been fairly up and down, and a higher level of impulsiveness has been observed.  This manifests itself in anger, appetite, &amp;#039;lustfulness&amp;#039;, (to use an archaic term!) but also energy to do more constructive projects too.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Any ideas??  Just normal human life or a common experience from the practice?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thanks in advance</description> <pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2014 07:34:33 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5575713</guid> <dc:creator>Hugh Fox</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-01T07:34:33Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Practice Thread: Novice</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5571812</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;&amp;#40;D Z&amp;#41; Dhru Val:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Think I have figured out the motivation puzzle. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There is a sort of inertia that we have when doing one thing, to avoid doing another. Some might call this laziness. In my observation laziness or inertia is actually caused by subtle anxieties about making the wrong choice.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Usually are motivation to do stuff in spite of this inertia comes from contact craving / aversion.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I think for me the craving / aversion has been dealt with to a greater extent than the anxiety of change.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I think the next step is trying to improve my speed of implementation. Get an idea and then put it into action, reasonable physical speed and with minimal mental procrastination.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Perhaps this is what avoiding sloth and topor mean in the training of morality.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I have made a lot of progress on this front. But it is not a direct meditative attainment. Mostly realizing that &amp;#039;willpower&amp;#039; does not exactly exist as an independent entity. More important is building strong intentionality. To overcome obstacles a goal.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I have found it effective to modify my environment and build habits to propell me in the direction I want to go in. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There are techniques to build stronger intentionality, and embed it into the subconsious. I tend not to use them too much though. Becuase there can be unintended consequences. (for eg. lifting too much weight at the gym can get me injured. sleeping too little can make me prone to illness etc.)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;And sometimes it is better to just let things play themselves out rather than trying to struggle against the grain.</description> <pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2014 05:12:25 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5571812</guid> <dc:creator>(D Z) Dhru Val</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-22T05:12:25Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Practice Thread: Novice</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5571806</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;&amp;#40;D Z&amp;#41; Dhru Val:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;I go through periods of increased and decreased sensory clarity throughout the day, not &amp;#039;AF&amp;#039; yet, but somewhere on the spectrum.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Still not AF (still feel adreneline at times), it isn&amp;#039;t really my goal to get AF either.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;My sensory clarity has continued to increase, except I have come to realize that it isn&amp;#039;t an increase in sensory clarity, but rather a decrease in some sort of bodily tension / sensations.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;At times when my sensory clarity is very high, it almost feels like my eyes aren&amp;#039;t really even inside my head. Almost like my head is just one giant eye.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;1.5 years later...&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The resolution of this sort of increase in sensory clarity. Is to not consider of the eyes as doing the seeing (though of course that is the case from an 3rd person point of view). &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Subjectively there is only the seen.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The problem is the overlay of &amp;#039;objective&amp;#039; imputations onto 1st person subjective reality.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So there is some sort of energetic movement that is associated with the eye seeing and the appearance of visual phenomenon. Via imputation these two get linked together. And we loose discernment of the seeing that is happening on its own.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So there is not longer as if one giant eye. The seeing and the sight are the same thing.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;From a purely subjective POV visual appearances are not there becuase the eye sees them. They are appearant becasue they are appearant.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;(notions of subjectivity and objectivity are also just notions)</description> <pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2014 05:04:51 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5571806</guid> <dc:creator>(D Z) Dhru Val</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-22T05:04:51Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Practice Thread: Novice</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5571801</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;&amp;#40;D Z&amp;#41; Dhru Val:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;The same mechanism of the brain that grasps at and blames wealth, beauty, age, etc as sources of meaning, now grasps at enlightenment in the same manner.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Becoming aware of this process. That these mental states still persist in my mind, in-spite of all sorts of &amp;#039;progress&amp;#039; and &amp;#039;attainment&amp;#039; is humbling.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Even as I type this pseudonymous post on some little corner of the internet is a faint but unpleasant tendency to contrive the writing in a way that projects &amp;#039;me&amp;#039; as being good. Rather than just being.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It is difficult to express exactly what I am talking about here, but roughly it corresponds to the layman&amp;#039;s conception of an ego,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I find the way to deal with this is not via contemplative practice, but through honesty and authenticity.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;Actually contemplative practice does seem to eventually deal with this. Not the actions directly. But the grasping for sure. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Still it is hard to let go of deep set old energetic patterns and blockages. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Sometimes these energetic blockages still manifest. And can be kind of painful. But certainly I have made a lot of progress on this front.</description> <pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2014 04:58:12 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5571801</guid> <dc:creator>(D Z) Dhru Val</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-22T04:58:12Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Practice Thread: Novice</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5571797</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;&amp;#40;D Z&amp;#41; Dhru Val:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;Was going to make this a separate post, but I am not yet very confident about buddhist philosophical stuff and the thing I have noticed may just be a quirk in the development of my own practice rather than applicable to Burmese style Vipassana in general, so will throw it here... &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Recent developments in my practice have led me to believe that Burmese style Vipassana as is prominent on DhO is lacking in emphasis on the non-dual aspects. This leads followers on missing out on important aspects of reality.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;First lets define some terms, for the purposes of this post:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Insight= Permanent change in the intuitive (i.e. not intellectual) perception of reality. Note: Using differently from common usage on DhO / MCTB.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Annata= Centreless MCTB-style annata insight in everyday life. There is seeing but no seer. Hearing but no hearer. Sensations but no one sensing them etc. The sense of self is made up of the 6 senses that arise on their own.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Non-duality= A separate insight that shows that reality &lt;em&gt;is&lt;/em&gt; awareness, rather than merely happening &lt;em&gt; within&lt;/em&gt; awareness. There is the insight that the &amp;#039;outside world&amp;#039; is itself made up of the senses.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;These are both valid insights, and when taken together they hint at emptiness / &lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;youtube&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;watch&amp;#x3f;v&amp;#x3d;FN1vhgGpfDY"&gt;dependent origination&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Just feel the non-dual aspect needs to be emphasized more than it tends to be around these parts, in order to get more out of the practice. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So if anyone is still notices dissatisfaction with annata, they should look into non-duality.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This is slightly non-sense, and a bit on the right track.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The problem here is that I as confused, about associating non-duality with the collapse of the attention wave. And annata as sort of regular realization from noting. This isn&amp;#039;t common usage of the term at all.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This becuse Noting does not result in the attention wave collapse on its own AFAIK. So this a flaw in a purely noting based system.</description> <pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2014 04:54:51 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5571797</guid> <dc:creator>(D Z) Dhru Val</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-22T04:54:51Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: noting vocabulary</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5571416</link> <description>thank you all for the replies - very informative and much appreciated.</description> <pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2014 17:17:37 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5571416</guid> <dc:creator>Hugh Fox</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-20T17:17:37Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: A Few Questions about Noting</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5571344</link> <description>Hi Fox,&lt;br /&gt;Welcome to the Dho&lt;br /&gt;Try this link - &lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;dharmaoverground&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;discussion&amp;#x2f;-&amp;#x2f;message_boards&amp;#x2f;message&amp;#x2f;1191517"&gt;A General, All Purpose Jhana Thread&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;And here- &lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;dharmaoverground&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;web&amp;#x2f;guest&amp;#x2f;dharma-wiki&amp;#x2f;-&amp;#x2f;wiki&amp;#x2f;Main&amp;#x2f;MCTB&amp;#x2b;Concentration&amp;#x2b;vs&amp;#x2e;&amp;#x2b;Insight"&gt;MCTB Concentration vs. Insight&lt;/a&gt; and the following chapters&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Google this ---&amp;gt; site:www.dharmaoverground.org jhana concentration&lt;br /&gt;Lots of good stuff around...&lt;br /&gt;Good luck,&lt;br /&gt;~D</description> <pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2014 15:06:35 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5571344</guid> <dc:creator>Dream Walker</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-20T15:06:35Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: A Few Questions about Noting</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5570968</link> <description>From my experience, Jhana is a type of karmic ability that will arise according to need. I don&amp;#039;t have it any more, but I don&amp;#039;t miss it either.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;You can concentrate on almost anything, so just go with what feels good, if you are comfortable with that. There are all kinds of things that come up.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;What I have been working on lately is noticing the distinction between jhanic bliss (I don&amp;#039;t really think of it as a jhana though) and pain, versus self idealization. More specifically the way these are felt in the body. So you might notice during the day if there are times when you might want to slip into momentary concentration if a problem or somethiing arises that you can&amp;#039;t seem to decide on. That&amp;#039;s what I do, at least.</description> <pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2014 03:02:22 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5570968</guid> <dc:creator>Adam Dietrich Ringle</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-20T03:02:22Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>A Few Questions about Noting</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5570957</link> <description>Hello Dharma Overground, I hope this is the right forum. I&amp;#039;ve been lurking around here for some time and I had a few questions. I discovered this website after being inspired by &lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;lesswrong&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;lw&amp;#x2f;5jj&amp;#x2f;meditation_insight_and_rationality_part_2_of_3&amp;#x2f;"&gt;a post on LessWrong&lt;/a&gt; about meditating towards enlightenment. Since then I&amp;#039;ve been following that guide and practicing insight meditation for an hour a day every day for the past four months, trying not to miss any sessions. I&amp;#039;ve also read MCTB in that time. So far I&amp;#039;ve reached access concentration and just recently the first insight jhana, although I have trouble getting back to the jhana at times.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I have a few questions about noting practice. The breath on my upper lips is my object of perception. Normally when I meditate I note my breath in and out as well as the &amp;#039;edges&amp;#039; of my breath when I exhale or inhale fully. When I have thoughts or feelings I note them, but normally I don&amp;#039;t note outside sounds or physical sensations unless they become a distraction. By the time I reach access concentration I have perceived vibrations for a while and I normally drop noting and focusing on perceiving vibrations in my breath.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Is this a mistake? Should I continue noting throughout my entire session, even past access concentration and into the jhana? I can hear subtle noises in the room when focusing on vibrations, but I normally only note them when my focus &amp;#039;switches&amp;#039; to them in a noticeable way. Is this a mistake? Should I note every sensation I perceive as fast as I can, even when I am trying to focus on vibrations? The latter seems rather difficult as I will constantly be trying to switch between all my senses.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;What about noting practices outside of meditation? Is this something worth doing a few hours every day during my normal routine or is it mostly only useful when on retreat? How worthwhile are these practices?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;And lastly I&amp;#039;ve only been following the form of insight meditation I&amp;#039;ve mentioned in the guide above, I haven&amp;#039;t worked on concentration meditation at all, although I am curious about the pleasurable states of consciousness it produces. Strangely I haven&amp;#039;t found any really specific guides on the same level as the LessWrong page for concentration meditation. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Does anyone have any recommendations for concentration meditation tutorials?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thanks for reading,&lt;br /&gt;Fox.</description> <pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2014 02:46:44 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5570957</guid> <dc:creator>Fox</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-20T02:46:44Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: noting vocabulary</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5570787</link> <description>Some people don&amp;#039;t like methodical practice but using the 4 foundations of mindfulness can help you catch the &amp;#034;analyzing&amp;#034;, &amp;#034;strategizing&amp;#034;, &amp;#034;doubt&amp;#034;, &amp;#034;catastrophizing&amp;#034;, that gets missed in typical practice.  Note moods and hindrances like &amp;#034;angry&amp;#034;, &amp;#034;sad&amp;#034;, &amp;#034;melancholy&amp;#034;, &amp;#034;happy&amp;#034;, &amp;#034;bliss&amp;#034;, &amp;#034;equanimity&amp;#034;, &amp;#034;lust&amp;#034;, &amp;#034;greed&amp;#034;, &amp;#034;envy&amp;#034;, &amp;#034;sloth&amp;#034;, &amp;#034;restlessness&amp;#034;.  Pick a foundation of mindfulness and keep practicing in that window and then when you feel the habit is sinking in then move on to the next and get good at it.  Eventually you&amp;#039;ll have habits of mindfulness in all 4 foundations.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The other thing is to let attention go where it goes so there&amp;#039;s less of a feeling of a controller that&amp;#039;s aversive to what&amp;#039;s there and then nudge your concentration to skillful things while noting &amp;#034;intention&amp;#034; so that intention isn&amp;#039;t a self.  Welcome the habit formations and let them drop, then note &amp;#034;gone&amp;#034;.  This way you can develop control without an aversion to what&amp;#039;s happening, since the aversion feels like a self.  When aversion does show up as it inevitably will you can note that too because you&amp;#039;ve practiced the vedana foundation of mindfulness you should be good at noticing that.</description> <pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2014 16:47:42 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5570787</guid> <dc:creator>Richard Zen</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-19T16:47:42Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: noting vocabulary</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5570763</link> <description>My take on the noting practice is that being aware of the moment is the key, secondarily the &amp;#034;note&amp;#034; is nothing more than keeping content from arising that would pull you out of the moment and back into thoughts. So I hear a noise in the moment and then note it to stop the mind from making a story about the noise. The note should be simple and easy at first so you don&amp;#039;t spend all your time looking for the right word when all you are trying to do is stop thinking about sensations....just noticing them in the now. I use 4 words and on the very rare times I smell and taste I&amp;#039;ll use them too but mostly its - Hearing, Thinking, Seeing, Feeling. When you master the four words and content starts to creep in anyway speed it up or add a secondary note of internal vs external, feeling tone, etc....again to stop the content and stay in the moment....I just usually speed up to the fastest noting I can and bear down to stop content....sometimes I can just notice without noting at all....do this if/when you can (usually in EQ).&lt;br /&gt;Anyway...thats my take on things,&lt;br /&gt;Good luck,&lt;br /&gt;~D</description> <pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2014 15:36:24 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5570763</guid> <dc:creator>Dream Walker</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-19T15:36:24Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: noting vocabulary</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5570758</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Hugh Fox:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;Apologies if this has been discussed before, (can&amp;#039;t find it).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I currently practice noting in accordance with some guidance I read from Stephen Heyes, a clin psych and a Buddhist.  I use a farly short list of words to describe experiential phenomena:&lt;br /&gt;-sensations&lt;br /&gt;-sounds&lt;br /&gt;-thoughts&lt;br /&gt;-memories&lt;br /&gt;-fantasy&lt;br /&gt;-judgements&lt;br /&gt;-urges&lt;br /&gt;Thanks in advance...  Newbie doubts and worries, I know!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Try google ---&amp;gt; site:www.dharmaoverground.org noting words&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;dharmaoverground&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;discussion&amp;#x2f;-&amp;#x2f;message_boards&amp;#x2f;message&amp;#x2f;5539985"&gt;http://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/message/5539985&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;dharmaoverground&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;discussion&amp;#x2f;-&amp;#x2f;message_boards&amp;#x2f;message&amp;#x2f;4216786"&gt;http://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/view_message/81495/fr&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;dharmaoverground&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;discussion&amp;#x2f;-&amp;#x2f;message_boards&amp;#x2f;message&amp;#x2f;4216786"&gt;http://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/message/4216786&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;dharmaoverground&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;discussion&amp;#x2f;-&amp;#x2f;message_boards&amp;#x2f;message&amp;#x2f;4695538"&gt;http://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/message/4695538&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Tons more.....these links have some good stuff to them.&lt;br /&gt;Good luck&lt;br /&gt;~D</description> <pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2014 15:22:50 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5570758</guid> <dc:creator>Dream Walker</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-19T15:22:50Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: noting vocabulary</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5570740</link> <description>There are a lot of different schema that you can use.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;For example Shinzen Young suggests stuff like &amp;#034;feel-in&amp;#034; for emotional body sensations, &amp;#034;feel-out&amp;#034; for normal physical body sensations, &amp;#034;see-in&amp;#034; for internal images, &amp;#034;see-out&amp;#034; for external sites, &amp;#034;hear-in&amp;#034; for internal dialogue, &amp;#034;hear-out for external sound, &amp;#034;gone&amp;#034; for the passing of a sensation, and stuff like &amp;#034;feel rest&amp;#034; for the absense of a sensation (if you notice it):&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;shinzen&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;Retreat&amp;#x25;20Reading&amp;#x2f;FiveWays&amp;#x2e;pdf"&gt;http://www.shinzen.org/Retreat%20Reading/FiveWays.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Another thing that I have started doing is to limit to around 10 notes, all oriented around the 3C&amp;#039;s directly. So for example, I will give notes like &amp;#034;aversion&amp;#034;, &amp;#034;craving&amp;#034;, or &amp;#034;clinging&amp;#034; for the suffering C, notes like &amp;#034;arising&amp;#034; and &amp;#034;passing&amp;#034; for the impermanence C, and notes like &amp;#034;empty&amp;#034;, &amp;#034;not mine&amp;#034;, or asking stuff like &amp;#034;who feels&amp;#034; for the not-self C. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Another option, continue with the list of words that you already have, and then during the course of meditation, if sensations come up that feel like they need more clarification, reflect afterwords (not during) what additional note(s) you would use. So during the meditation if you felt something like &amp;#034;vulnerability&amp;#034;, note it as &amp;#034;sensations&amp;#034; and then decide afterwords that you will use the new words whenever that same feeling comes up again. In this way you can develop a specific vocabulary naturally and over time that is yours. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I hope this helps</description> <pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2014 12:53:54 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5570740</guid> <dc:creator>Jason Snyder</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-19T12:53:54Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>noting vocabulary</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5570700</link> <description>Apologies if this has been discussed before, (can&amp;#039;t find it).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I currently practice noting in accordance with some guidance I read from Stephen Heyes, a clin psych and a Buddhist.  I use a farly short list of words to describe experiential phenomena:&lt;br /&gt;-sensations&lt;br /&gt;-sounds&lt;br /&gt;-thoughts&lt;br /&gt;-memories&lt;br /&gt;-fantasy&lt;br /&gt;-judgements&lt;br /&gt;-urges&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This was really useful in minimising &amp;#039;thinking&amp;#039; time before each note came up, but reading about other people&amp;#039;s practices I am wondering if I am limiting myself with such narrow labels.  I know the note is not the same as the thing, but in terms of developing insight into the 3 C&amp;#039;s etc, is a wider range of notes advisable?? I&amp;#039;m specifically wondering about things like &amp;#039;feeling tone&amp;#039; or further refining the content of &amp;#039;thoughts&amp;#039;.  On the one hand I don&amp;#039;t want to get way-laid in content, but on the other &amp;#039;thought&amp;#039; can note a passing day-dream about a girl at work or a profound commentary on the practice itself. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thanks in advance...  Newbie doubts and worries, I know!</description> <pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2014 06:36:43 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5570700</guid> <dc:creator>Hugh Fox</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-19T06:36:43Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Noting Questions</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5564352</link> <description>Is this occurring in any particular spot or is it an all-over kinda thing?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Energetic arousal / agitation is pretty common for meditators, in particular during the A&amp;amp;P (though it will likely persist and continue to shift afterward as well). This can be pretty bizarre and unsettling at first, but one can acclimate rather quickly, especially when adopting an open-minded attitude toward such sensations. Fascination with them isn&amp;#039;t helpful, nor is the tendency to feel tormented by them -- try to land somewhere in the middle, if you can manage it.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If it is subtle energy, this is a pretty sure sign of progress and 100% normal. The reason you&amp;#039;re hitting these sensations with noting and not breath meditation is that you&amp;#039;re breaking into territory that you hadn&amp;#039;t managed prior. Which, of course, is awesome!</description> <pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2014 17:56:58 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5564352</guid> <dc:creator>John M.</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-04T17:56:58Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Noting Questions</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5564339</link> <description>Hey Florian,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I am afraid that&amp;#039;s not exactly what I am feeling..&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Even now when practicing noting the itching feelings arise all over my body, and follows me also outside practice for a while..&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This only happens when doing noting practice, when I just do breathing meditation, this does not happen..&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Anyone have any ideas why this is only happening in noting practice? my concentration is quite good, I don&amp;#039;t get lost in thoughts, nor do I really get bored during practice..</description> <pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2014 17:20:25 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5564339</guid> <dc:creator>Julian Aureliano</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-04T17:20:25Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Noting falls away??</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5563394</link> <description>flippin&amp;#039; &amp;#039;eck Richard, that was one hell of a post!!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thank you to both of you for your response, and for the links.  Much appreciated.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I will log back on and write a more intelligent reply when I have a sec....</description> <pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2014 19:04:50 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5563394</guid> <dc:creator>Hugh Fox</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-01T19:04:50Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Noting falls away??</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5563287</link> <description>In my experience that is perfectly fine as long as you are still attentive. Noting is meant as an aid to mindfullness, not the other way around. If one is locked in I think eventually noting *should* be dropped, as it tends to filter raw experience. </description> <pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2014 13:47:37 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5563287</guid> <dc:creator>Jason Snyder</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-01T13:47:37Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Noting falls away??</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5563282</link> <description>Noting is just a feedback loop to keep you noticing.  The old habits always slip in when there isn&amp;#039;t mindfulness.  To avoid it being mechanical you need to use &lt;strong&gt;bare awareness&lt;/strong&gt; to notice what&amp;#039;s going on and then use the verbal label afterwards to keep the mind doing it.  &lt;strong&gt;The actual experience must precede the conceptual note.&lt;/strong&gt;  It&amp;#039;s easy for the brain to space out into old habits when you stop verbally noting, because these habits of clinging are developed over years and decades.  The mind also slips into old habits when we stop noting because we haven&amp;#039;t developed enough disenchantment because we haven&amp;#039;t noted enough detail.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;You ultimately want to note without verbal labels but at the beginning this isn&amp;#039;t as wise.  As you get better you can note more detail you haven&amp;#039;t noticed before and drop the noting for the easy to notice experiences.  When you haven&amp;#039;t really experienced perception/recognition of objects in a meditative way it helps to keep noting until the next level of detail is noticed.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The most important thing beyond consistency is to label objects that go through the &lt;strong&gt;3 characteristics&lt;/strong&gt; (impermanence/stress/not-self) and see more and more into &lt;strong&gt;dependent arising &lt;/strong&gt;(your entire experience)&lt;em&gt;&lt;/em&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I would try and detect one experience at a time and watch it&amp;#039;s impermanence, unsatisfactoriness, and how anything that is impermanent cannot be a self or owned by a self.  Use the &lt;strong&gt;4 foundations of mindfulness&lt;/strong&gt; for examples of what to target for investigation. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;arrowriver&amp;#x2e;ca&amp;#x2f;dhamma&amp;#x2f;founMind&amp;#x2e;html"&gt;http://www.arrowriver.ca/dhamma/founMind.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;These are different angles to prove to the brain that what it thinks is a self is really just those experiences and aggregates.  The &lt;strong&gt;7 factors of awakening&lt;/strong&gt; are a guide in how to balance the mind while it&amp;#039;s doing this investigation.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;You need to look at &lt;strong&gt;dependent arising &lt;/strong&gt;and see how stress appears in the mind by cause and effect.  These are a lot of lists but they are there to simplify the practice and at the same time not to sacrifice detail.  Anything you are noting you&amp;#039;re not ruminating/clinging over.  That&amp;#039;s a small sample of freedom each time you don&amp;#039;t cling.  Clinging is a habit you want to decondition.  As you see impermanence you develop &lt;strong&gt;disenchantment&lt;/strong&gt; which helps you to let go of clinging permanently.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The anatta/not-self realization happens when you keep looking for a self but all you find is &amp;#034;thinking&amp;#034;, &amp;#034;strategizing&amp;#034;, &amp;#034;unpleasant feeling&amp;#034;, &amp;#034;wanting&amp;#034;, &amp;#034;body sensation&amp;#034; etc.  Everything breaks down into smaller experiences and with modern physics we are now at a Higgs Boson and it may breakdown further.  That is what is meant by no-self.  It&amp;#039;s not that you don&amp;#039;t have an personality but that it breaks down in to habits, and cause and effect.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;What also helped me a lot was trying to notice how a lot of my problems in life were shared by so many people and how I wasn&amp;#039;t so hyper individual that I couldn&amp;#039;t relate.  A lot of mental patterns and behaviours are shared by many people.  We&amp;#039;re all stuck ruminating on how we can make the conceptual self feel permanently happy but the brain cannot release all those pleasant neurotransmitters all the time (boredom) and life cannot give us all we want (stress).  Ultimately this body will die and all that we attached to were just memories.  The self concept is only that, a concept.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;By seeing how we make ourselves into objects that are separate from the world and react to this concept by releasing pleasant or unpleasant chemicals based on our status in life it can become clear that this process is extremely draining and exhausting.  Coritsol is released in excess amounts if you&amp;#039;re depressed and have constant negative thinking habits.  So much of this clinging is not necessary but simply a very strong habit from prior conditioning.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The likeable and unlikeable chemicals &lt;strong&gt;(vedana/feeling tone of pleasantness, neutral or unpleasantness)&lt;/strong&gt; condition our habits (which are simply addictions/operant conditioning) so that we often repeat the same behaviours over and over again.  &lt;strong&gt;Dependent arising&lt;/strong&gt; is a list of how each bit of stress is conditioned by other conditions that allow it to happen.  The &lt;strong&gt;dependent arising&lt;/strong&gt; list looks like a bunch of separate &amp;#034;things&amp;#034; but that is more because of communication being conceptual.  Concepts always have to reduce (reductionism) complex material into something simple like &amp;#034;seeing&amp;#034;, &amp;#034;legs&amp;#034;, &amp;#034;chair&amp;#034;.    These conditions are already leaning on each other and pushing in that direction.  Ultimately all &amp;#034;things&amp;#034; are interdependent so that thingness becomes less accurate.  Things appear to be inherently real meaning that they don&amp;#039;t have a cause and effect and are completely separate like a cookie-cutter result.  In reality it&amp;#039;s more like waves and ripples of experience that move extremely quickly affecting everything in an unfathomable speed.  Everything is interdependent.  Eventually you can see this in your thinking patterns and even down into consciousness which should eventually eliminate all places for a permanent &amp;#034;self&amp;#034; to exist in.  The &lt;strong&gt;consciousness/knowing/awareness&lt;/strong&gt; is already leaning on old habits as we speak.  The enlightenment is eventually seeing how interdependent your consciousness is to objects and how consciousness can only be conscious towards an object (including thinking objects).  If you are interdependent towards other objects which go through the &lt;strong&gt;3 characteristics&lt;/strong&gt; then all of you goes through the &lt;strong&gt;3 characteristics.&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So as I listed above there&amp;#039;s tons of places to investigate and lots of things to note and the more things you get disenchanted with the less stress hormones will be released when those things show their impermanence.  People get stuck in noting when they run out of detail to note so I would note &amp;#034;confusion&amp;#034; when you&amp;#039;re stuck for a label.  The more experiences you can label and disidentify from the more freedom you have.  Another tip, don&amp;#039;t cling to the concept of Buddhism or make the &amp;#034;self&amp;#034; into a &amp;#034;meditator&amp;#034;.  Strategizing or analyzing in Buddhism is just more thinking. &lt;img alt="emoticon" src="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dho-theme/images/emoticons/happy.gif" &gt; Start simple and as you get better with simple things to note then add more and more detail.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Some tips on good noting:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;insightmeditationcenter&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;books-articles&amp;#x2f;articles&amp;#x2f;mental-noting&amp;#x2f;"&gt;http://www.insightmeditationcenter.org/books-articles/articles/mental-noting/&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="https&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;youtube&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;watch&amp;#x3f;v&amp;#x3d;BgBAIHoc69s"&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;a href="https&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;youtube&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;watch&amp;#x3f;v&amp;#x3d;YrpGNjggB1U"&gt;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrpGNjggB1U&lt;/a&gt;&lt;a href="https&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;youtube&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;watch&amp;#x3f;v&amp;#x3d;BgBAIHoc69s"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgBAIHoc69s&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="https&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;youtube&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;watch&amp;#x3f;v&amp;#x3d;Jib-fuJOvYo"&gt;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-44VxPiQtVg&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="https&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;youtube&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;watch&amp;#x3f;v&amp;#x3d;0B_Jdu8k-OE"&gt;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B_Jdu8k-OE&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="https&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;youtube&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;watch&amp;#x3f;v&amp;#x3d;TvXij9B5xoQ"&gt;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvXij9B5xoQ&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="https&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;youtube&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;watch&amp;#x3f;v&amp;#x3d;0-58IoZMNss"&gt;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-58IoZMNss&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Once noting becomes a habit then freedom is a habit.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This is a lot of detail but read it slowly and practice it methodically.  When you react less to &amp;#034;thingness&amp;#034; and &amp;#034;things&amp;#034; because objects aren&amp;#039;t really that separate as they appear then life should be normal as before but with a great reduction of stress.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Richard</description> <pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2014 13:28:18 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5563282</guid> <dc:creator>Richard Zen</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-01T13:28:18Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>Noting falls away??</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5563242</link> <description>I&amp;#039;ve scanned the threads and have seen topics related to this but can&amp;#039;t find the direct answer, so please forgive the newb question.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Am new to noting, and am experiencing periods in practice where the verbal notes seem to &amp;#039;naturally&amp;#039; subside.  The attentiveness to the experience remains, but the mind just stops the using words to accompany them.  It feels pleasant, FWIW, and the noting generally then starts up again some time later as the mind starts getting more active again.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Is this a natural/common phenomenon? Or is it just a sign of getting lazy during practice?  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thanks in advance.</description> <pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2014 10:05:57 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5563242</guid> <dc:creator>Hugh Fox</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-01T10:05:57Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Noting and the Three Characteristics (in MCTB)</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5559408</link> <description>Thanks. Great help (and the book too).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I still don&amp;#039;t get how I &amp;#034;use them as a filter&amp;#034;. Do I...&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;1 ...keep them in mind while meditating? Maybe reminding myself from time to time: &amp;#034;Everything is impermanent&amp;#034; etc. I easily start philosophizing...&lt;br /&gt;2 ...sort of &amp;#034;prime&amp;#034; my mind on one of the concepts by trying to get an intuitive feel for it?&lt;br /&gt;3 ...just focus on noting as much as possible, trusting the process, waiting for the moment to say: &amp;#034;See! Unsatisfactoriness!&amp;#034;?&lt;br /&gt;4 ...wait for one of the three C&amp;#039;s to become obvious for the first time in one or two sensations and then try to see it in all of them?&lt;br /&gt;5 ...do something else entirely?&lt;br /&gt;6 ...experiment with all of the above?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;    &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt; </description> <pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2014 06:42:02 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5559408</guid> <dc:creator>Michael Oliver Holmes</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-07-23T06:42:02Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Noting and the Three Characteristics (in MCTB)</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5559178</link> <description>When sensations get fast, consider dropping to monosyllabic blips or dats or something like that or just dropping the noting entirely and staying with rapidly arising and vanishing sensations.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Definitely use the Three Characteristics as a filter once you get fast and consistent enough.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Start by identifying your objects, then break them down into their component sensations and see their true nature whenever possible.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The book you mentioned in your email, Practical Insight Meditation: Basic and Progressive Stages, is the book I mentioned. You can find it in the wiki noted above and many other places.</description> <pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2014 05:59:24 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5559178</guid> <dc:creator>Daniel M. Ingram</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-07-22T05:59:24Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Noting the same thing</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5558210</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;Eric M W&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I personally think your first approach sounds more promising, because fast noting is incredibly powerful if done correctly. If you want to get to stream entry quickly, note fast! &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It doesn&amp;#039;t matter what you note as long as you are accurate, diligent, and quick. If you can note all that background stuff without getting lost, keep it up. Some practitioners are better at more choiceless awareness type practice, and some are better with more restricted practice, such as noting the sensations that make up the breath.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I see, thanks!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;To speed up noting even more by willfully placing attention on different body parts such as my hand (feeling) my ankle (feeling) back of the head (feeling) in a very fast pase but willfully, can that count as genuine noting as well?</description> <pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2014 13:41:13 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5558210</guid> <dc:creator>Julian Aureliano</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-07-17T13:41:13Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Noting the same thing</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5557553</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Julian Aureliano:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Thanks for the replies all! very informative!&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There are 2 approaches I can take on noting, I am not so sure if they should be considered the same or one should bring more progress/results than the other.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;1. On the background I can &amp;#034;sense&amp;#034; many sensations, thoughts/images, sounds at once, at this point I jump/put closer attention and note in a fast pace everything that&amp;#039;s &amp;#034;available&amp;#034; to me on the background, do I hear 5 different sounds in the background? I jump one by one and note them WITHOUT staying on them until they dissolve or my mind bounches automaticly to the other sounds. I simply note 1 sound and jump to the next which is available on the background instantly.&lt;br /&gt;in this approach usually I note quite fast, sometimes to the point I feel intense vibrations building up in my body.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;2. When my attention is on a thought, I note &amp;#034;thinking&amp;#034; I stay on the thought until it goes away or something else popups/or my attention automaticly jumps on another sensation or thought, this approach in noting is a little bit slower usually as my mind staying on the thought without anything else poping up can take time..&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Any opinions? what approach should bring to stream entry faster?&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I personally think your first approach sounds more promising, because fast noting is incredibly powerful if done correctly. If you want to get to stream entry quickly, note fast! &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It doesn&amp;#039;t matter what you note as long as you are accurate, diligent, and quick. If you can note all that background stuff without getting lost, keep it up. Some practitioners are better at more choiceless awareness type practice, and some are better with more restricted practice, such as noting the sensations that make up the breath.</description> <pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2014 19:24:30 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5557553</guid> <dc:creator>Eric M W</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-07-16T19:24:30Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Noting the same thing</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5557499</link> <description>&lt;strong&gt;Thanks for the replies all! very informative!&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There are 2 approaches I can take on noting, I am not so sure if they should be considered the same or one should bring more progress/results than the other.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;1. On the background I can &amp;#034;sense&amp;#034; many sensations, thoughts/images, sounds at once, at this point I jump/put closer attention and note in a fast pace everything that&amp;#039;s &amp;#034;available&amp;#034; to me on the background, do I hear 5 different sounds in the background? I jump one by one and note them WITHOUT staying on them until they dissolve or my mind bounches automaticly to the other sounds. I simply note 1 sound and jump to the next which is available on the background instantly.&lt;br /&gt;in this approach usually I note quite fast, sometimes to the point I feel intense vibrations building up in my body.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;2. When my attention is on a thought, I note &amp;#034;thinking&amp;#034; I stay on the thought until it goes away or something else popups/or my attention automaticly jumps on another sensation or thought, this approach in noting is a little bit slower usually as my mind staying on the thought without anything else poping up can take time..&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Any opinions? what approach should bring to stream entry faster?</description> <pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2014 12:19:51 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5557499</guid> <dc:creator>Julian Aureliano</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-07-16T12:19:51Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Noting the same thing</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5557375</link> <description>Hello Julian,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I would like to add that sometimes is not clear for people that noting mind and mental labeling is not the same. &lt;br /&gt;Noting mind arise when you are present with the experience (noting mind=present=mindful etc.).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Labeling is a technique which helps you to be aware of the object. (and as you do labeling that time noting mind arise on your labeling voice...)&lt;br /&gt;In this way it also helps to &amp;#034;cut off&amp;#034; from the object (as Dru Val sad it helps not to get lost in the content, so it is doesn&amp;#039;t matter how-what you label)&lt;br /&gt;So you can be mindful without labeling only labeling makes things easier. It helps to make your action-mind-speech and get concentration.&lt;br /&gt;It is not important to label but it can help a lot when mind get crazy (and it also produce energy (effort)).&lt;br /&gt;(but with to much labeling you can get also crazy). You have to try what works you better and find the balance. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Every phenomena is build up from smaller parts. As your mindfulness gets stronger noting mind can arise on more subtle sensations.&lt;br /&gt;This is the whole technique about. In this way mind can realise that no &amp;#034;I&amp;#034; in the process only sensations and the mental note. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Noting mind can arise more higher then 5/sec...but you can hardly label 2-3 times in a sec (if you label like &amp;#034;hearing, feeling etc.). &lt;br /&gt;You don&amp;#039;t need to get crazy with this and start to count. It will arise naturaly from the mindfulness practice. &lt;br /&gt;Sometime you perceive more sometimes less phenomena. It is also stage related. More on this you can find clear in MCTB.</description> <pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2014 00:22:01 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5557375</guid> <dc:creator>Noting Monkey</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-07-16T00:22:01Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Noting the same thing</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5557355</link> <description>There is no same thing, as everything is already gone by the time you note it, so while you might be noting a recurrence of something like the now-vanished previous object, it is a fresh new sensation that is gone by the time you note that general category of sensations again.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thus, anything you note is already gone. Anything you note is a valid thing to note, as that is what just happened, and what is happening is what you note, regardless of what it is. Very simple. Very straightforward.</description> <pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2014 23:41:33 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5557355</guid> <dc:creator>Daniel M. Ingram</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-07-15T23:41:33Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Noting the same thing</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5557334</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Julian Aureliano:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;Hello,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If I am not wrong, according to the MCTB, you can note 5 times per second, does that mean noting 5 different things like, thinking, smelling, feeling, vibration, hearing.. or is noting the same thing considered 5 times noting per second as well? thinking, thinking, thinking, thinking, thinking (same though or image)?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Noting the same thing counts. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Also it is not important to label the thing verbally.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So for eg. instead of noting  &amp;#039;thinking thinking sound&amp;#039;. You can make single syllable notes like &amp;#039;tha tha tha&amp;#039; etc.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The important thing is that you are renewing your atttention on the sensations rather than getting lost in discursive thoughts and fellings.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This sort of bare attention is the more subtle form mindfulness. And what you need to get stream entry.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;Another question,&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;When I note I note everytime, so many times there is a lot of hearing and thinking, but sometimes I direct my attention more to the body so I have more vibrations, sensations to note, is that more important that brings more result?&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;Paying attention to sensations that make up the sense of &amp;#039;self&amp;#039; or &amp;#039;body&amp;#039; will be more fruitful IMO, than noting thoughts and their content. Though if you have thoughts, you should note them so you don&amp;#039;t get caught up in them.</description> <pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2014 22:53:49 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5557334</guid> <dc:creator>(D Z) Dhru Val</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-07-15T22:53:49Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>Noting the same thing</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5557180</link> <description>Hello,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If I am not wrong, according to the MCTB, you can note 5 times per second, does that mean noting 5 different things like, thinking, smelling, feeling, vibration, hearing.. or is noting the same thing considered 5 times noting per second as well? thinking, thinking, thinking, thinking, thinking (same though or image)?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Another question,&lt;br /&gt;When I note I note everytime, so many times there is a lot of hearing and thinking, but sometimes I direct my attention more to the body so I have more vibrations, sensations to note, is that more important that brings more result?</description> <pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2014 13:16:03 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5557180</guid> <dc:creator>Julian Aureliano</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-07-15T13:16:03Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Noting Questions</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5554404</link> <description>Hi Julian&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Maybe it&amp;#039;s the &lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;shinzen&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;Articles&amp;#x2f;artIcky&amp;#x2e;htm"&gt;The Icky-Sticky Creepy-Crawly It-Doesn&amp;#039;t-Really-Hurt-But-I-Can&amp;#039;t-Stand-It Feeling&lt;/a&gt;?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Cheers,&lt;br /&gt;Florian</description> <pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2014 15:04:25 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5554404</guid> <dc:creator>Florian Weps</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-07-08T15:04:25Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>Noting Questions</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5554377</link> <description>Hello,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I have started noting for about a week,&lt;br /&gt;When I itch or a though popups, I label them, so I am aware of the itch and of the though that popped up.. however, do I need to give the itch or though any more effort? like &amp;#034;zooming&amp;#034; in to really feel the itch or see the though content in more details? in that case, won&amp;#039;t it make noting very slow? some people note 5 times a second so I don&amp;#039;t understand how one can put &amp;#034;full effort&amp;#034; in the arising of something that way..&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;One other thing is, the first day I started noting at some point I could note incredibly fast and then intense vibration started arising through my whole body.. is this the A &amp;amp; P? I mean it was really intense it covered myself like a planket, and I felt very light like something big was about to happen, I just continued noting..&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;After about 3 days of noting my whole body started to itch, in practice and outside practice.. it doesn&amp;#039;t stop, there is no reason for me to itch that way, I read a little bit about the 9th Nana and I though that it might have something to do with that, it&amp;#039;s not even really my skin that&amp;#039;s itching, it&amp;#039;s more like feeling something crawling on my skin, I don&amp;#039;t see anything on the skin not even redness.. it has been a couple of days since then and I still itch all the time.. if it has something to do with the 9th Nana, does it mean I already passes the previous nana inside practice without realizing it?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thanks..</description> <pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2014 13:14:28 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5554377</guid> <dc:creator>Julian Aureliano</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-07-08T13:14:28Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Noting and the 3Cs</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5552175</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;tdiggy t diggy:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;I see suffering or unsatisfaction as well.  But frankly not as clearly as impermanence.  Suffering/unsatisfactoriness arises in view at times in tandem or close to impermance (&amp;#034;ahh, that nice visual/state is gone, that&amp;#039;s too bad.&amp;#034;  &amp;#034;Good things come to end, that sucks.&amp;#034;)  So I suppose I can kind of see to some degree in my practice how impermanence and suffering go hand and hand. but again, I&amp;#039;d say duhka is not as clear at all as impermanence in my noting.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Try this-&lt;br /&gt;Sensations do not observe other sensations; sensations observed are not you - No-self&lt;br /&gt;Sensations do not last - Impermanence&lt;br /&gt;Sensations do not satisfy and sometimes the stress is clearly visible - Dhukka &lt;br /&gt;Just see these as they arise....is it me? did it last? did it satisfy?&lt;br /&gt;Good luck,&lt;br /&gt;~D</description> <pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2014 16:14:04 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5552175</guid> <dc:creator>Dream Walker</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-06-30T16:14:04Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Noting and the 3Cs</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5552130</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;tdiggy t diggy:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;So I suppose I can kind of see to some degree in my practice how impermanence and suffering go hand and hand. but again, I&amp;#039;d say duhka is not as clear at all as impermanence in my noting.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If it&amp;#039;s not clear, do yourself a favour and don&amp;#039;t strain for it like I did. Deliberately steering your inquiry toward dukkha is just another layer of fabrication, and an unpleasant one at that -- no sense engendering suffering over a perceived inability to discern suffering.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If you can&amp;#039;t discern any dukkha -- great! Use those calmer waters to deepen your concentration and cultivate stillness to the point where subtler aspects of dukkha &lt;em&gt;do&lt;/em&gt; present.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;Non-self remains somewhat of a mystery to me in my practice.  I&amp;#039;ve read the descriptions in various contexts, and can understand to some extent rationally what non-self points to, but I don&amp;#039;t &amp;#034;see&amp;#034; it in my experience yet.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The 3Cs form a line of inquiry meant to disabuse us of the habitual notion of an independent, separate, abiding self. So, don&amp;#039;t look to it as a view to be adopted so much as an exercise to be performed. Rational thought and intellectual gymnastics are of little help where this is concerned. Keep looking toward meditative experience as the real acid test and you&amp;#039;re bound to be on the right track.</description> <pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2014 06:25:53 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5552130</guid> <dc:creator>John M.</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-06-30T06:25:53Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Noting and the 3Cs</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5552022</link> <description>Thank you.  In my own sitting practice, I can clearly see impermanence as well.  Its the &amp;#034;in your face&amp;#034; of the 3Cs for me too.  Things come and go non-stop.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I see suffering or unsatisfaction as well.  But frankly not as clearly as impermanence.  Suffering/unsatisfactoriness arises in view at times in tandem or close to impermance (&amp;#034;ahh, that nice visual/state is gone, that&amp;#039;s too bad.&amp;#034;  &amp;#034;Good things come to end, that sucks.&amp;#034;)  So I suppose I can kind of see to some degree in my practice how impermanence and suffering go hand and hand. but again, I&amp;#039;d say duhka is not as clear at all as impermanence in my noting.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Non-self remains somewhat of a mystery to me in my practice.  I&amp;#039;ve read the descriptions in various contexts, and can understand to some extent rationally what non-self points to, but I don&amp;#039;t &amp;#034;see&amp;#034; it in my experience yet.</description> <pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2014 00:36:15 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5552022</guid> <dc:creator>tdiggy t diggy</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-06-30T00:36:15Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Noting and the 3Cs</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5552017</link> <description>Just in speaking to my own practice, I&amp;#039;ve found impermanence to be the absolute linchpin. While unsatisfactoriness and non-self are subject to degrees of subjectivity and interpretation (at increasingly subtle levels), impermanence just completely, irrefutably &lt;em&gt;is&lt;/em&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Impermanence is often framed as dukkha, but in experience can be absolutely delightful. I&amp;#039;ve spent more time than I care to own up to observing impermanence and imagining it to be a source of stress in a misguided attempt to follow the Buddha&amp;#039;s line of reasoning. Truth is, there&amp;#039;s something completely awesome about seeing sensate reality melt like ice cream on a hot day. Eventually it dawned that I had managed to miss the larger point: that imputing qualities onto phenomena that they do not possess was itself the source of stress. You can feel dejected that a particularly blissful state of absorption has ended, or you can feel delighted in witnessing sensate reality spontaneously arise and expire: same lesson, different perspective.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Likewise for non-self. Sometimes the hedonic experience of impermanence -- no matter where it&amp;#039;s landed on the spectrum -- can really seem to inform a totally concrete, separate sense of self. Better to note this honestly than to diligently pretend it hasn&amp;#039;t happened. Better yet, note when this sensation subsides. Impermanence is to selfing as the tide is to sand castles. On grosser levels this tends to have a sinusoidal and gradual in-and-out quality. At finer levels, self really flickers and strobes.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;One last point: it&amp;#039;s often helpful to turn the 3Cs around from &amp;#034;external&amp;#034; phenomena and apply them to awareness itself. In this way one can really get the center rocking, too.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Some of this is a bit tangential I&amp;#039;m sure, but it&amp;#039;s what sprung to mind based on my own explorations along the 3Cs. </description> <pubDate>Sun, 29 Jun 2014 23:54:57 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5552017</guid> <dc:creator>John M.</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-06-29T23:54:57Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Noting and the 3Cs</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5551988</link> <description>Thank you very much for both comments.  They are both helpful.  Would love to hear if others have any insights here.  </description> <pubDate>Sun, 29 Jun 2014 21:07:57 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5551988</guid> <dc:creator>tdiggy t diggy</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-06-29T21:07:57Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Noting and the 3Cs</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5551904</link> <description>There seem to be different takes on that.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;My take:&lt;br /&gt;I have never noted &amp;#039;impermanence&amp;#039; or &amp;#039;suffering&amp;#039; or &amp;#039;no-self-.&lt;br /&gt;Just noting what&amp;#039;s there creates the conditions for insight to arise, which is probably enough.&lt;br /&gt;When I notice some characteristic or really anything about it (which you seem to describe, too), and it&amp;#039;s really obvious, I will note &amp;#039;knowing&amp;#039; or whatever comes up in response to it.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Very often, I only noticed that the 3 characteristics were there in great abundance after the meditation session.&lt;br /&gt;Often I noticed them, but didn&amp;#039;t realize that this was what is referred to by dukkha, anatta, anicca.</description> <pubDate>Sun, 29 Jun 2014 13:57:54 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5551904</guid> <dc:creator>bernd the broter</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-06-29T13:57:54Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Noting and the 3Cs</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5551884</link> <description>yes you can note, &amp;#034;anicca&amp;#034;, for example when you notice the impermanant nature of anything.  in fact, i have found that dedicating a part of your sit to looking for &amp;#034;permanance&amp;#034; helpful.  that is, look for something that does not have the nature of impermanance.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;noting progresses naturally from the obvious to the subtle.  things like itching, pulsing, pressure generally give way eventually to things like &amp;#034;feeling tone&amp;#034;, and &amp;#034;mind states&amp;#034;, &amp;#034;space&amp;#034; ...&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;the satipatthana (sp) sutta is a good example of how ever more subtle things should be noticed as you refine your skills.  it suggests that one moves from investigation of the body to feeling tone, to &amp;#034;mind&amp;#034; and then to the &amp;#034;contents of mind&amp;#034;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;each person generally finds one of the three C&amp;#039;s more attractive than the other two to investigate.  that doesn&amp;#039;t mean you shouldn&amp;#039;t investigate the other two as practice makes perfect but don&amp;#039;t feel obliged to.   all of those things you mention are worthy of investigation.  good luck and keep at it.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;tom</description> <pubDate>Sun, 29 Jun 2014 08:42:16 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5551884</guid> <dc:creator>tom moylan</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-06-29T08:42:16Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>Noting and the 3Cs</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5551866</link> <description>Hi Good People,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So I&amp;#039;ve been practicing Mahasi style noting for the past month as my main practice, both on the mat and off (while driving, waiting in line, walking, cleaning the house, etc.)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&amp;#039;ve been enjoying the practice and feel I&amp;#039;m making progress.  However, one question has come up in reading various threads about Noting and the 3Cs.  I&amp;#039;ve read in a bunch of contexts folks saying how important it is to see the 3Cs while noting.  Can someone explain what this means during the actual practice?   ie. does this mean people are actually noting &amp;#034;seeing, walking, suffering, hearing, no-self, impermance, seeing, smelling, etc.&amp;#034;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;When I note, I do notice often how impermanent things are (ie. the quick flux of my perception/attention, the arising and quick passing of various emotions, thoughts, senses, etc)  I also note dissatisfaction as well from time to time.  As for no-self, that really hasn&amp;#039;t come up.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Cheers,&lt;br /&gt;Tom</description> <pubDate>Sun, 29 Jun 2014 04:57:49 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5551866</guid> <dc:creator>tdiggy t diggy</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-06-29T04:57:49Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: New to noting...some questions</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5546131</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Derya:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I am still feeling uncertain about noting because with body scanning I am able to systematically move through the body, so I feel that I am observing sensations throughout the body, but with noting I feel like I am just jumping to whatever arises, which I am afraid will make me miss the subtler sensations on other parts of the body. Do you feel that this is not the case?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Check &lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;dharmaoverground&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;web&amp;#x2f;guest&amp;#x2f;discussion&amp;#x2f;-&amp;#x2f;message_boards&amp;#x2f;message&amp;#x2f;5414029&amp;#x23;_19_message_5415839"&gt;out this advice&lt;/a&gt;</description> <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2014 09:37:14 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5546131</guid> <dc:creator>J C</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-06-16T09:37:14Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: New to noting...some questions</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5542247</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Derya:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;After some practice though I do think that noting is more of a &amp;#034;fast track&amp;#034; to attainment (stream entry is my goal right now) because the three characteristics are much more apparent when I note vs when I body scan.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;I look at this way, you are hacking your brain and when you do only body scanning you are limiting the centers in the brain that are being rewired. Being inclusive of the 6 senses allows the whole enchilada to be rewired. Working on the awareness center of the brain with concentration works to make it bigger and more predominate connections.&lt;br /&gt;Reread MCTB and check out &lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;contemplativefitnessbook&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;"&gt;http://contemplativefitnessbook.com/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Good luck,&lt;br /&gt;~D</description> <pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2014 06:16:31 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5542247</guid> <dc:creator>Dream Walker</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-06-04T06:16:31Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: New to noting...some questions</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5542232</link> <description>The approach of practicing different methods and then figuring out what works best is indeed pragmatic, and I will try to trust my intuition a little more from now on. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I think I have been getting caught up with trying to find the &amp;#034;one right way&amp;#034; to meditate but I am finding that it doesn&amp;#039;t matter so much where the focus is but it does matter that I have faith in my practice; I think I was losing some faith, but it is an important tool! Now I am practicing noting but if I am really tired I default back to body-scanning since I already have that down pretty well. After some practice though I do think that noting is more of a &amp;#034;fast track&amp;#034; to attainment (stream entry is my goal right now) because the three characteristics are much more apparent when I note vs when I body scan. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thanks again for the responses and watch out for those nails. &lt;img alt="emoticon" src="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dho-theme/images/emoticons/happy.gif" &gt;</description> <pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2014 04:56:58 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5542232</guid> <dc:creator>Derya</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-06-04T04:56:58Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: New to noting...some questions</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5540772</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;Thanks for the detailed response. Just to clarify, when you say &amp;#034;try it both ways,&amp;#034; the 2 ways you are referring to are &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;1.noting whatever is predominant&lt;br /&gt;2. Noting the sensations of the breath.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I have been doing a combo of the 2: noticing the breath sensations until something else pops up, and when that other thing (or things) pass away I return to the breath. Is that correct?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I have done all three over time. I like to do your combo approach to increase concentration and insite at the same time. Once concentrated enough I usually move to what is predominate, then stop noting with words and just notice whatever I can. This took me some practice to do each one. It also depends on which stage of insite I am on too. Sometimes I can not stay on target and content/thinking arises so much I just stay with the combo approach and never get past that. There are so many options on how to do this stuff and different things work at different stages and during the dark night nothing seems to be working. I am pragmatic in my approach and try to find the tool that works for the moment....but you have to spend time on each tool to get familiar enough to apply it well when needed. It&amp;#039;s like a rock, a hammer and a nail gun will do the same job, but sometimes you have no air from the compressor, your hammer seems broken and the rock is too heavy....then I use my forehead....&lt;img alt="emoticon" src="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dho-theme/images/emoticons/smile.gif" &gt;&lt;br /&gt;Good luck,&lt;br /&gt;~D</description> <pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2014 06:56:13 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5540772</guid> <dc:creator>Dream Walker</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-06-02T06:56:13Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: New to noting...some questions</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5540721</link> <description>[quote=&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;Dream Walker&lt;/span&gt;]&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Arial"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;ol style="list-style: decimal outside;"&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;Keep noting whatever arises next whatever it is. Sometimes thoughts are the predominate thing. Other times it is noises. Play around. Keep noting fast enough to capture whatever it is. Going back to the sensations that make up the  breath each time is also a popular way to do it. Try it both ways for a week and see what result you get and then choose.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ol&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thanks for the detailed response. Just to clarify, when you say &amp;#034;try it both ways,&amp;#034; the 2 ways you are referring to are &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;1.noting whatever is predominant&lt;br /&gt;2. Noting the sensations of the breath.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I have been doing a combo of the 2: noticing the breath sensations until something else pops up, and when that other thing (or things) pass away I return to the breath. Is that correct?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thanks again,&lt;br /&gt;Derya</description> <pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2014 01:47:38 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5540721</guid> <dc:creator>Derya</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-06-02T01:47:38Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: New to noting...some questions</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5540718</link> <description>Hi again,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Maybe my noting isn&amp;#039;t quite precise enough, but I find that emotions are a combination of physical bodily sensations with thoughts, so for example I would note, &amp;#034;chest tightness, thoughts about worrying, shoulders tensing,&amp;#034; and all those notes would be what I describe as the emotion, &amp;#034;anxiety.&amp;#034;  This kind of goes a long with what is described above with using just the 4 notes, feeling thinking seeing hearing.</description> <pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2014 01:33:41 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5540718</guid> <dc:creator>Derya</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-06-02T01:33:41Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: New to noting...some questions</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5540715</link> <description>[quote=&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;J C&lt;/span&gt;]&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I had the same problem as far as simultaneous sensations. If you practice and watch closely, you&amp;#039;ll see that they&amp;#039;re not actually simultaneous, but your attention bounces from one to the other. Try to catch the bouncing if you can. There are a couple good exercises in MCTB about this: one involves putting your index fingers on your knees and watching your attention bounce back and forth between left and right index finger. Just note quickly, whatever you can, and pay close attention- pretty soon it will seem less &amp;#034;foggy.&amp;#034; Remember to note the Three Characteristics in everything.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thanks for the response, all very helpful! I especially liked the way you described the sensations as &amp;#034;bouncing back and forth,&amp;#034; which resonates with me more than trying to observe each individual sensation.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;When noting the three characteristics, I mainly notice that things are arising and passing quickly (impermanence) on their own, and I seem to have no control over them (no self), and I don&amp;#039;t always directly note suffering but it seems like it pops up here and there. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I am still feeling uncertain about noting because with body scanning I am able to systematically move through the body, so I feel that I am observing sensations throughout the body, but with noting I feel like I am just jumping to whatever arises, which I am afraid will make me miss the subtler sensations on other parts of the body. Do you feel that this is not the case?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description> <pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2014 01:27:02 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5540715</guid> <dc:creator>Derya</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-06-02T01:27:02Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: New to noting...some questions</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5540706</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Dream Walker:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;J C:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;How do you note touching or tactile sensations?&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;I note Feeling.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Oh cool, I was thinking Feeling was for emotions. Do you use Feeling for both?</description> <pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2014 00:31:11 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5540706</guid> <dc:creator>J C</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-06-02T00:31:11Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: New to noting...some questions</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5540694</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;J C:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;How do you note touching or tactile sensations?&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;I note Feeling.</description> <pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2014 23:48:50 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5540694</guid> <dc:creator>Dream Walker</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-06-01T23:48:50Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: New to noting...some questions</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5540683</link> <description>How do you note touching or tactile sensations?</description> <pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2014 20:44:34 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5540683</guid> <dc:creator>J C</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-06-01T20:44:34Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: New to noting...some questions</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5540669</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Derya:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;ol style="list-style: decimal outside;"&gt;&lt;li&gt; My question is, should I let thoughts play out and keep noting the thought? (This seems precarious as I tend to get lost in thought) or as soon as I note, &amp;#034;thinking, planning anticipating&amp;#034; or whatever should I immediately return to the rising and falling of the abdomen until another sensation arises?&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Secondly, as a beginner I find myself noting things after other noting events have occured,  so my question is, is it better to note as many things as possible, even though some may be in retrospect, or to note less total things but to note what is occuring presently?&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Lastly (for now), I find that with noting sometimes it feels like I am noting many sensations simultaneously, but in MCTB Dan mentions that no 2 sensations can be observed simultaneously, but also that he and others experienced success with noting very quickly...so should I try to very distinctly note one sensation at a time or as many as quickly as possible, or a combo of the two?&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ol&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;ol style="list-style: decimal outside;"&gt;&lt;li&gt;Keep noting whatever arises next whatever it is. Sometimes thoughts are the predominate thing. Other times it is noises. Play around. Keep noting fast enough to capture whatever it is. Going back to the sensations that make up the  breath each time is also a popular way to do it. Try it both ways for a week and see what result you get and then choose.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Speed up the noting if you need to keep up. If you can&amp;#039;t get the right word and you&amp;#039;re thinking a lot about what word to use then simplify - Thinking, hearing, feeling seeing, smelling, tasting. I meditate with eyes closed and rarely smell or taste. That leaves 4 - thinking, hearing, feeling seeing the blackness behind my eyes. Try just using those four words as quickly as you can until is becomes second nature and fast...you can go faster by just saying &amp;#034;dat&amp;#034; or some other quick nonsense word for each thing that arises too.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Stay with the one thing that is predominate at a time. Memory plays tricks of trying to combine multiple things together these are usually thoughts of multiple things... note thinking. Play with your speed and accuracy until you find what works for you at each sit and during each sit....modify based off of your results.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ol&gt;You might try ping pong noting with a partner too.&lt;br /&gt;Good luck,&lt;br /&gt;~D</description> <pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2014 18:26:02 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5540669</guid> <dc:creator>Dream Walker</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-06-01T18:26:02Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: New to noting...some questions</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5540416</link> <description>One other thing that might be helpful is finding notes that work for you. I use the following:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Rising: when breathing in&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Falling: when breathing out&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thinking about X: when I catch myself getting lost in thought, I always note what I was thinking about. It helps to sum it all up with a word or two like &amp;#034;Thinking about mapping&amp;#034; or &amp;#034;Thinking about work&amp;#034;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Touching: when I&amp;#039;m aware of my body touching clothes, the bed, or itself&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;also sometimes I use hearing, smelling, wanting, intending&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Keep it simple. So most of the time I&amp;#039;m just noting &amp;#034;rising touching touching rising touching falling touching touching falling rising touching&amp;#034; and so on. The majority of my notes are &amp;#034;touching.&amp;#034;</description> <pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2014 19:54:34 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5540416</guid> <dc:creator>J C</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-05-31T19:54:34Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: New to noting...some questions</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5540023</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Derya:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;When I am body scanning, as soon as I notice that my mind has wandered from breath or bodily sensations, I return to scanning.  However, in the Mahasi book he instructs to note imagining, thinking, reflecting, etc and to note each occurence until it passes away. My question is, should I let thoughts play out and keep noting the thought? (This seems precarious as I tend to get lost in thought) or as soon as I note, &amp;#034;thinking, planning anticipating&amp;#034; or whatever should I immediately return to the rising and falling of the abdomen until another sensation arises?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Secondly, as a beginner I find myself noting things after other noting events have occured,  so my question is, is it better to note as many things as possible, even though some may be in retrospect, or to note less total things but to note what is occuring presently?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Lastly (for now), I find that with noting sometimes it feels like I am noting many sensations simultaneously, but in MCTB Dan mentions that no 2 sensations can be observed simultaneously, but also that he and others experienced success with noting very quickly...so should I try to very distinctly note one sensation at a time or as many as quickly as possible, or a combo of the two?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Am I just being neurotic?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;With metta,&lt;br /&gt;D&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Noting took me a while to get the hang of. I don&amp;#039;t think there is any one right way to do it: you pretty much have to try a few different ways and see what works. At first noting seems impossible but after a little practice you can do it easily.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Getting lost in thought is not very helpful. Once you note &amp;#034;thinking&amp;#034; you can return to whatever the object of meditation is (such as the breath, but it can be anything). Or, you can take the choiceless awareness approach and just let whatever comes up next come up.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I personally found it helpful to note whatever I could, even if it was a few seconds or more ago. As you practice you&amp;#039;ll decrease the recognition time.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I had the same problem as far as simultaneous sensations. If you practice and watch closely, you&amp;#039;ll see that they&amp;#039;re not actually simultaneous, but your attention bounces from one to the other. Try to catch the bouncing if you can. There are a couple good exercises in MCTB about this: one involves putting your index fingers on your knees and watching your attention bounce back and forth between left and right index finger. Just note quickly, whatever you can, and pay close attention- pretty soon it will seem less &amp;#034;foggy.&amp;#034; Remember to note the Three Characteristics in everything.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;All this stuff makes more sense as you practice more. There are some studies on perception time for meditators that show how meditation practice changes the brain so you can notice things that last for shorter intervals of time with more clarity. You have to keep trying until you decrease your perception time enough.</description> <pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2014 03:48:13 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5540023</guid> <dc:creator>J C</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-05-31T03:48:13Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>New to noting...some questions</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5539985</link> <description>&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;Hi all,&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;I have been had a body-scanning practice for about 2.5 years but have recently tried to switch to noting to see if I can progress more by doing so. I also appreciate that I find it a little easier to focus on the reality of the present moment more since I am not putting a lot of effort into the actual process of scanning, which I can&amp;#039;t seem to avoid in my scanning practice. &lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;I have read Mahasi Sayadaw&amp;#039;s &lt;/span&gt;&lt;em&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;Practical Insight Meditation&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt; and have been working according to these instructions, but I still have a couple of questions regarding technique, perhaps someone here can help clarify them for me:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;When I am body scanning, as soon as I notice that my mind has wandered from breath or bodily sensations, I return to scanning.  However, in the Mahasi book he instructs to note imagining, thinking, reflecting, etc and to note each occurence until it passes away. My question is, should I let thoughts play out and keep noting the thought? (This seems precarious as I tend to get lost in thought) or as soon as I note, &amp;#034;thinking, planning anticipating&amp;#034; or whatever should I immediately return to the rising and falling of the abdomen until another sensation arises?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Secondly, as a beginner I find myself noting things after other noting events have occured,  so my question is, is it better to note as many things as possible, even though some may be in retrospect, or to note less total things but to note what is occuring presently?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Lastly (for now), I find that with noting sometimes it feels like I am noting many sensations simultaneously, but in MCTB Dan mentions that no 2 sensations can be observed simultaneously, but also that he and others experienced success with noting very quickly...so should I try to very distinctly note one sensation at a time or as many as quickly as possible, or a combo of the two?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Am I just being neurotic?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;With metta,&lt;br /&gt;D&lt;/span&gt;</description> <pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2014 03:27:45 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5539985</guid> <dc:creator>Derya</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-05-31T03:27:45Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Questions on Goenka-style body scanning vs. noting</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5536633</link> <description>&lt;span style="font-size: 12px"&gt;I have asked several Godenka students how they were taught to deal with feeling tones thought and emotions. They&lt;span style="font-family: arial&amp;#x2c;helvetica&amp;#x2c;sans-serif"&gt;&lt;/span&gt; said they weren&amp;#039;t covered. Disembedding from physical sensations, feeling tones, mental condition/emotions and thoughts are, for me, best accomplished with a noting/noticing practice directly involving all 4 areas.. Does Goenka handle that in advanced courses.&lt;/span&gt;</description> <pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2014 20:15:28 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5536633</guid> <dc:creator>Jack Hatfield</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-05-22T20:15:28Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Questions on Goenka-style body scanning vs. noting</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5536607</link> <description>&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;Hello,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I am very intrigued by this conversation since I have had similar experiences and questions...&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I started out a Goenka &amp;#034;junkie&amp;#034;, after sitting my first course in 2011 I sat and served on and off for about 9 months (which I unfortunately spent a great deal of rolling in thought and mind noise), but it wasn&amp;#039;t until aftter that that I discovered MCTB and this website which has accelerated and focused my practice; although I am still working towards stream entry at least now I know what that is and have it to work towards!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I just sat a 10 day this month and I found noting to be a nice accessory to body scanning, in a sense that when I found my mind to be wandering I would note, &amp;#034;mind wandering&amp;#034; and it helped to keep me on track. I found that during the &amp;#034;break periods&amp;#034; noting was very helpful to keep my mind focused and present, for example if I was walking I would note walking and also try to feel the sensations in my legs. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Jill- do you have any tips for staying present for the times not sitting and meditating? Like do you mainly focus on physical sensations while walking, eating etc as Goenka suggests or are you aware of other sensations such as sound as well? Continuity of awareness is something I find very challenging on courses, and I am especially distracted when making decisions like, &amp;#034;should I go for a walk? should I sit in the hall or in my room? should I turn here or here on the walking path?&amp;#034; I know that seems neurotically nitpicky but those type of small decisions happen often and I struggle to stay present during that type of thinking.... any suggestions?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Dylan- Since it has been some time since this post has been edited I would be curious to see how your practice has grown and if you are still practicing body-scanning, noting, or a combo.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Warmly,&lt;br /&gt;Derya&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description> <pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2014 17:22:00 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5536607</guid> <dc:creator>Derya</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-05-22T17:22:00Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>Mahasi Sayadaw's Fruition training practice [End in Sight] [MIGRATE]</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5527861</link> <description>Mahasi Sayadaw&amp;#039;s Fruition training practice [End in Sight] &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;End in Sight - 2012-08-30 20:56:33 - Mahasi Sayadaw&amp;#039;s Fruition training practice&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This came up in a conversation I had with Yadid.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Mahasi Sayadaw suggests that one who has attained stream entry should practice to lengthen the duration of their fruition attainment, extending fruition to a half hour, an hour, or even more.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;* Has anyone tried this or trained in this way, or known of someone who has? If so...&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;* How was it done, what were the benefits, etc?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;* What is the difference between NS (as explained in MCTB ) and a lengthening of fruition attainment?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;* The Visuddhimagga seems to say that fruition attainment occurs as a form of jhanic attainment; one reaches a path, and on the basis of the jhana involved with that path (depending on how one was practicing), the fruition attainment associated with that path involves the jhana factors of the relevant jhana in some way. (Bhante G has an accessible discussion of this.) What is the relationship between fruition and jhana, however you understand those terms?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Not sure if this will be a productive thread; I suspect not many people here do this kind of thing nowadays. But perhaps I&amp;#039;ll be surprised!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;-------------------&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Nikolai . - 2012-08-30 22:24:42 - RE: Mahasi Sayadaw&amp;#039;s Fruition training practice&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;End in Sight:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;This came up in a conversation I had with Yadid.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Mahasi Sayadaw suggests that one who has attained stream entry should practice to lengthen the duration of their fruition attainment, extending fruition to a half hour, an hour, or even more.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;* Has anyone tried this or trained in this way, or known of someone who has? If so...&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;* How was it done, what were the benefits, etc?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;* What is the difference between NS (as explained in MCTB ) and a lengthening of fruition attainment?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;* The Visuddhimagga seems to say that fruition attainment occurs as a form of jhanic attainment; one reaches a path, and on the basis of the jhana involved with that path (depending on how one was practicing), the fruition attainment associated with that path involves the jhana factors of the relevant jhana in some way. (Bhante G has an accessible discussion of this.) What is the relationship between fruition and jhana, however you understand those terms?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Not sure if this will be a productive thread; I suspect not many people here do this kind of thing nowadays. But perhaps I&amp;#039;ll be surprised!&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Is &amp;#039;fruition&amp;#039; according to Mahasi, conscious or unconcsious (as in the infamous momentary blip/black out/conk out)?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;It has already been stated that phalasamapatti (fruition attainment) first begins to occur when arising from nirodhasamapatti. This phalasamapatti being free from raga (passion), etc., it is also called suÒÒata(the Void). As it is free of rÊga-nimitta (one of the attributes of sentient existence), it is also known as animitta. Moreover, as it is free from passionate desire such as raga, etc., it is also called appanihita. As such, phassa which is also included in this samapatti is also known as suÒÒata, animitta and appanihita. As phassa (contact) takes place by dwelling upon Nibbana, which is known as suÒÒata (the Void), animitta (the Unconditioned), and appanithta (freedom from longing or desire), with attentive consciousness of mind, it is called suÒÒata, etc. The answer, therefore, is that the three kinds of phassa, viz: suÒÒataphassa, animittaphassa and appanihitaphassa first begin to take place. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;For better understanding, it may be stated that when arising from nirodhasamÊpatti,contact takes place with suÒÒata-nibbana, a condition devoid of kilesa-sankhara to which the mind has been directed as its sense-object. Contact is also made with animitta-nibbana which is devoid of or free from any sign of nimitta. Then comes mere awareness of contact with appanihita-nibbana, a condition free from vehement desire, which is the sense object that has been contemplated.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;dhammaweb&amp;#x2e;net&amp;#x2f;mahasi&amp;#x2f;book&amp;#x2f;Mahasi_Sayadaw_Culavedalla_Sutta&amp;#x2e;pdf"&gt;http://www.dhammaweb.net/mahasi/book/Mahasi_Sayadaw_Culavedalla_Sutta.pdf&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Here it seems he is talking of what is occuring directly after nirodha. Is nirodha the cessation of senses? Is phala, i.e. fruition attainment, a conscious experience? Conscious or unconscious? This may influence the answers to your questions.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I did this for awhile: &lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;thehamiltonproject&amp;#x2e;blogspot&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2e;au&amp;#x2f;2011&amp;#x2f;07&amp;#x2f;yogi-toolbox-lengthening-fruition&amp;#x2e;html"&gt;http://thehamiltonproject.blogspot.com.au/2011/07/yogi-toolbox-lengthening-fruition.html&lt;/a&gt;. Is it the same thing?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;-------------------&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Daniel M. Ingram - 2012-08-31 05:35:29 - RE: Mahasi Sayadaw&amp;#039;s Fruition training practice&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Bill used to talk about extended Fruition duration. I chased it for years and totally failed to have Fruitions that I could be certain had any external duration of any appreciable timeframe except this one time long ago (circa 1997) where I thought maybe...&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There seems to be individual variation on how Fruitions happen for people. Some can get multiples, some can only get one/day max, some seem to describe duration by external time measures but the gap for them is the same, meaning there is just the in, the out, and nothing in between beyond the sense on retrospect that there was a discontinuity, like some frames of reality were edited out and the thing was spliced back together. Some can get Fruitions only after long practice on a cushion, others in daily life sometimes, others in daily life easily, others by mere brief inclination, and this may vary by the phase of their practice.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Bill used to really strive for duration, and apparently would spend hours calming and restraining and stabilizing the mind to achieve it. Kenneth Folk would know more about his practice and might be worth asking about it.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I wish I could add more,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Daniel&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;-------------------&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Andy W - 2012-09-04 13:40:51 - RE: Mahasi Sayadaw&amp;#039;s Fruition training practice&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Ah, this is very interesting! This April I went to &lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;vipassana-dhammacari&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;main_eng&amp;#x2e;html"&gt;Dhammacari&lt;/a&gt;, a hardcore Mahasi centre in Germany, where they make you stay awake for 72 hours at the end of a two week retreat. On the penultimate day, you are told to make this resolution before you sit:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;Within this 60 minutes sitting period, may the Phenomena of Arising and Ceasing appear as often as possible.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In other words, may I experience a ton of fruitions. This worked well for me: I had loads, all very clear. On the last day, we were given a harder task, expressed in this resolution:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;Within this hour, may I experience the State of Meditation without consciousness of outside phenomena for 5 minutes&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If we were successful - i.e. if we felt that time was somehow &amp;#034;missing&amp;#034; when the bell went at the end of the sit, we could change the resolution to 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 and 60 mins, incrementally. I didn&amp;#039;t manage this at all, but it sounds a lot like what you might call extended fruitions.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;-------------------&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Eudoxos . - 2014-04-27 20:42:29 - RE: Mahasi Sayadaw&amp;#039;s Fruition training practice&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Joining this thread a bit late, perhaps with some useful information.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Ajahn Tong tradition (Mahasi with noting, with variable session length, from 20/20 up to 60/60) puts a strong emphasis on making wishes before each sitting session. On retreats (after the basic course), one is instructed to make a wish about attaining certain Òana (perhaps without actually knowing what nibbidaÒana actually means, does not matter). The same applies to the last part of the retreat called &amp;#034;determination&amp;#034; (in the sense of resolution or strong wish) coming after equanimity. One practices round the clock with the resolution of (first night) experiencing arising &amp;amp; ceasing as often as possible (manifested as head dropping down or such, a &amp;#034;jerk&amp;#034;, plus consciousness disappearing very shortly); and the resolution (second night) experiencing the state of mind without the consciousness of external phenomena (i.e. without body &amp;amp; mind phenomena; = fruitions) for increasing amount of time (5, 10, ... minutes, up to one hour).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I my own practice I had a clear fruition on the 3rd retreat (I even remember, in hindsight, extremely unpleasant moments preceding it, which seem to fit the description of the Three Doors as Daniel describes it in MCTB; as if suddenly being hit with an axe into the head from behind three times during the walking practice, in three successive moments, going onto the ground during those moments, then losing consciousness for at least 20 minutes, judging by the practice timer I looked at when I woke up again), and then on all the following retreats. It happened always during high equanimity plus sleep deprivation (which seems to be specific to the Thai tradition, and as much as I hate &lt;em&gt;hate&lt;/em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;hate&lt;/strong&gt; being sleep-deprived, I can attest to the efficiency of it in the context of high insight practice); sometimes the fruition felt a bit like falling asleep (body relaxing before entering that state and such), though the thing itself was never sleep-like (perhaps like the very deep, narcosis-like sleep), sometimes it was just time missing (20 minutes away, noticing just by looking at the clock, the body not moving during that time). Once I had a sitting practice that I sat down onto the cushion and the hour was over literally in the next instant, I felt very strange, like back in the misery/disgust/... state; and I did not realize that blackout until a few minutes later when I recalled the sitting session was simply missing!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I was also told by some that the duration of fruitions has become a bit of sport among some practitioners in the Ajahn Tong tradition and was warned to not attach to it too much.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;From what I understood, extended fruitions do &amp;#034;more damage&amp;#034; than non-extended (&amp;#034;instantaneous&amp;#034;) ones, but that is not something I could verify in my own experience (too little empirical material here).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;* What is the difference between NS (as explained in MCTB ) and a lengthening of fruition attainment?&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Just from the text: first, extended fruition is attainable to anyone, NS only to anagami and aranat (according to MCTB, though it is partially disputed in there). Second, fruitions happen in high equanimity where NS happen after samatha jhanas and &amp;#034;Unlike frutions, one exits this attainment in the reverse of the way one came in.&amp;#034; (MCTB, last page) In Chom Tong, there is (allegedly, but I&amp;#039;ve heard it from several people who lived in the monastery there) a nun who does NS for 3 days.</description> <pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2014 10:29:51 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5527861</guid> <dc:creator>Migration 6.2 Daemon</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-05-07T10:29:51Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Moving from concentration practice to noting - how fast to note</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5388438</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;A TACK:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I was in the shower yesterday and had a &amp;#034;reality drop out moment&amp;#034; and then i suppose some insight - the feeling/knowing that i&amp;#039;m really just a bag of sensations experiencing a selection of sensations out of an infinite number of sensations happening at the same time. I guess this is no self stuff?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;You are getting close to no-self. But not quite there. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Here are some stuff to think about...&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;1) How can one sensation &amp;#039;observe&amp;#039; another sensation ? They are just sensations.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;2) Do you have any subset sensations, that you think of as being your &amp;#039;mind&amp;#039; or &amp;#039;observer&amp;#039; ? &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The sense of observer is illustrated in this picture below.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;img src="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;i&amp;#x2e;imgur&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;cLnlvVd&amp;#x2e;png" /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If you investigate the sensations of the &amp;#039;observer&amp;#039;. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Are they different from any other sensations ? &lt;br /&gt;Does it seem like the sense of where the observer is located shifts when doing this sort of investigation ?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If so immediately switch to investing the new location and just be relentless in investigating whatever sensations that seem like they are related to there being an observer.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;A TACK:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;br /&gt; have had the feeling over the last few days of awareness hugely intensifying overall, and especially of mental sensations, and them really being given no more weight than other sensations, noticing how quickly they rise and fall like other sensations. I htink there has been a shift.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This sounds like good progress.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Have courage.</description> <pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2014 14:43:30 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5388438</guid> <dc:creator>(D Z) Dhru Val</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-04-06T14:43:30Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Moving from concentration practice to noting - how fast to note</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5384284</link> <description>[quote=(D Z) Dhru Val]&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;A TACK:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Some q&amp;#039;s - In Dan&amp;#039;s book he mentions tuning in to sensation at a rate of 1 to 10 per second, this i can do with breath in nostrils, in fact it&amp;#039;s harder at this point to perceive breath as solid for concentration practice. However when i try and note each part of the breath sensation as rising/falling it really slows things down. I can easily observe the quick sensations of each part of the breath but to then apply a note them just seems clunky. Surely in applying the note you are not aware of as many sensations because of the time taken to apply the note? or is the fact that i have observed the sensation enough - i.e no further note needs to be applied?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;You can apply a single syllable note like &amp;#039;ba&amp;#039;, &amp;#039;da&amp;#039;, &amp;#039;fa&amp;#039; etc. This keeps your verbal thought processes busy, and also serves as a pace setter for refreshing your observation.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If your concentration is very strong, and you are not distracted by discursive thoughts then it might be less important to note.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;A TACK:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Also - with regards to the 3 characteristics, is the very fact that one is observing/noting every small aspect of breath in itself investigating the 3 characteristics? e.g seeing impermanence in every small aspect of the breath - or am i not getting it and investigation of 3 characteristics needs to be applied in other ways?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Probably best to investigate it one characteristic at a time. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Starting with impermanence. Soon you will get the rapid tingly sensations happening and cross AP. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;AP will lead to the dukkha nanas, so then investigate dukkha and the impermanence of dukkha. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Once you understand the impermanence of dukkha you will develop equanimity. Then stop noting, but continue to be alert. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Start to look for any sensations that your mind has subconsciously associated to be &amp;#039;self&amp;#039; or &amp;#039;observer&amp;#039;. Investigate no-self here.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Be relentless and get stream entry.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thanks Dhru Val - certainly in day to day life i will note some things when concentration lapses or just to keep me focused while i&amp;#039;m doing something. However i can clearly feel things like the wind/air at the same time in many parts of my body at once and i&amp;#039;m mostly clearly aware of this and able to watch how it changes etc, but i can see how in other situations the noting would be useful.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The next part of your post almost knocked me off my chair...&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Over the last few weeks I tingle/urge to itch but not quite, really heavily during practice. I might sit for an hour in the AM and similar in the PM and every time i sit the tingling starts. I have been taking a new medicine around the same time as I practice, and i thought the tingling might have even been a reaction to my new medicine - even went and saw my GP &lt;img alt="emoticon" src="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dho-theme/images/emoticons/happy.gif" &gt; Doing an N1 and practicing at other times independent of the meds i now see that practice is the trigger. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Specifically seems to come on as soon an access concentration comes on line and intensifies with priti.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Over the last few days access concentration is almost instant, tingling and pritti more intense than ever. tonight i sat for an hour and really broke down the sensations of the breath, tons of vibrations/pulses as expected, Priti starting about 5 mins in and became extremely intense as vibrations sped up, or ability to observe them. Then something happened after about 30 mins - almost like the brain had an overload (but it didn&amp;#039;t feel this way) heart rate shot up, my eyes just flew open (although lately they feel like they want to open whenever i sit), was more intense than anything i&amp;#039;ve ever felt before in practice. Then bought myself back by solidifying the breath and doing concentration for the rest of the sit. Jhanic state i got in to then was extremely spacious. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I was in the shower yesterday and had a &amp;#034;reality drop out moment&amp;#034; and then i suppose some insight - the feeling/knowing that i&amp;#039;m really just a bag of sensations experiencing a selection of sensations out of an infinite number of sensations happening at the same time. I guess this is no self stuff? have had the feeling over the last few days of awareness hugely intensifying overall, and especially of mental sensations, and them really being given no more weight than other sensations, noticing how quickly they rise and fall like other sensations. I htink there has been a shift.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Apologies for the rambling post, but feels good to write this stuff down &lt;img alt="emoticon" src="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dho-theme/images/emoticons/happy.gif" &gt; does this experience sound A&amp;amp;P esque? For me i think this is important, because although interesting, the physical intensity of what happened today during practice and seizure like pritti is intense. Be good to know where I might be now on the map before i venture off in to formal insight territory.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thank you&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Aaron</description> <pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2014 21:45:01 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5384284</guid> <dc:creator>A TACK</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-04-04T21:45:01Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Moving from concentration practice to noting - how fast to note</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5384276</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;William Golden Finch:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;Yes, observation is the main thing. If in the observing of it you are seeing it clearly then there is no need to add another filter. The three characteristics became predominant in my experience in an organic way, and I would caution not to &amp;#034;try&amp;#034; to see them, rather keep observing the breath and other sensations that are present, widening out to include more phenomena when that seems useful but approaching it in the same way. Some people have found it useful to mentally note, but I think this is mainly due to a lack of concentration that it seems you have. I even spent a period of time before stream entry noting out loud, which felt clunky when I was first introduced to it, but ended up being very useful. I have found much of Daniel&amp;#039;s more recent writing to be useful, but MCTB did not resonate with me much, even moving through the paths. All that to say, it is not one size fits all. Suggestions are useful, but experiment and find what works for you.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thank you for your reply William.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Your experience resonates with me. I have found really honing concentration helps with overall moment to moment observation/mindfulness - adding the note filter is a layer of doing which i don&amp;#039;t think i need.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I think I understand what you mean re. organic viewing of the 3 characteristics, certainly no self/impermanence have become apparent in practice, almost overwhelmingly so some times, and then also in normal life too.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I have been playing around with noting as I walk around doing to day to day stuff, but in practice it just feels to slow/clunky for me.</description> <pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2014 21:24:07 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5384276</guid> <dc:creator>A TACK</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-04-04T21:24:07Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Moving from concentration practice to noting - how fast to note</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5374294</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;A TACK:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Some q&amp;#039;s - In Dan&amp;#039;s book he mentions tuning in to sensation at a rate of 1 to 10 per second, this i can do with breath in nostrils, in fact it&amp;#039;s harder at this point to perceive breath as solid for concentration practice. However when i try and note each part of the breath sensation as rising/falling it really slows things down. I can easily observe the quick sensations of each part of the breath but to then apply a note them just seems clunky. Surely in applying the note you are not aware of as many sensations because of the time taken to apply the note? or is the fact that i have observed the sensation enough - i.e no further note needs to be applied?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;You can apply a single syllable note like &amp;#039;ba&amp;#039;, &amp;#039;da&amp;#039;, &amp;#039;fa&amp;#039; etc. This keeps your verbal thought processes busy, and also serves as a pace setter for refreshing your observation.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If your concentration is very strong, and you are not distracted by discursive thoughts then it might be less important to note.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;A TACK:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Also - with regards to the 3 characteristics, is the very fact that one is observing/noting every small aspect of breath in itself investigating the 3 characteristics? e.g seeing impermanence in every small aspect of the breath - or am i not getting it and investigation of 3 characteristics needs to be applied in other ways?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Probably best to investigate it one characteristic at a time. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Starting with impermanence. Soon you will get the rapid tingly sensations happening and cross AP. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;AP will lead to the dukkha nanas, so then investigate dukkha and the impermanence of dukkha. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Once you understand the impermanence of dukkha you will develop equanimity. Then stop noting, but continue to be alert. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Start to look for any sensations that your mind has subconsciously associated to be &amp;#039;self&amp;#039; or &amp;#039;observer&amp;#039;. Investigate no-self here.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Be relentless and get stream entry.</description> <pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2014 07:06:32 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5374294</guid> <dc:creator>(D Z) Dhru Val</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-04-03T07:06:32Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Moving from concentration practice to noting - how fast to note</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5373691</link> <description>Yes, observation is the main thing. If in the observing of it you are seeing it clearly then there is no need to add another filter. The three characteristics became predominant in my experience in an organic way, and I would caution not to &amp;#034;try&amp;#034; to see them, rather keep observing the breath and other sensations that are present, widening out to include more phenomena when that seems useful but approaching it in the same way. Some people have found it useful to mentally note, but I think this is mainly due to a lack of concentration that it seems you have. I even spent a period of time before stream entry noting out loud, which felt clunky when I was first introduced to it, but ended up being very useful. I have found much of Daniel&amp;#039;s more recent writing to be useful, but MCTB did not resonate with me much, even moving through the paths. All that to say, it is not one size fits all. Suggestions are useful, but experiment and find what works for you.</description> <pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2014 03:31:39 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5373691</guid> <dc:creator>William Golden Finch</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-04-03T03:31:39Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Moving from concentration practice to noting - how fast to note</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5373587</link> <description>From what I read on your post, I don&amp;#039;t have much I can help you with, because I don&amp;#039;t really understand what you are trying to do.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;My practice is to be happy in the present moment. Sometimes this involves looking deeply, sometimes it involves concentrating. I do what feels natural.</description> <pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2014 01:20:46 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5373587</guid> <dc:creator>Adam Dietrich Ringle</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-04-03T01:20:46Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>Moving from concentration practice to noting - how fast to note</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5373081</link> <description>Would appreciate some thoughts please or direction to relevant posts/reading material, apologies if i have threads which ask the same Q.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I solely do concentration practice (using breath) and can cultivate some nice jhanic states quickly and solidly, so now i feel ready to move to vipassna/noting.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Some q&amp;#039;s - In Dan&amp;#039;s book he mentions tuning in to sensation at a rate of 1 to 10 per second, this i can do with breath in nostrils, in fact it&amp;#039;s harder at this point to perceive breath as solid for concentration practice. However when i try and note each part of the breath sensation as rising/falling it really slows things down. I can easily observe the quick sensations of each part of the breath but to then apply a note them just seems clunky. Surely in applying the note you are not aware of as many sensations because of the time taken to apply the note? or is the fact that i have observed the sensation enough - i.e no further note needs to be applied?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Also - with regards to the 3 characteristics, is the very fact that one is observing/noting every small aspect of breath in itself investigating the 3 characteristics? e.g seeing impermanence in every small aspect of the breath - or am i not getting it and investigation of 3 characteristics needs to be applied in other ways?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;i&amp;#039;ve read Dan&amp;#039;s book twice but not clear on the above.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thanks</description> <pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2014 22:53:06 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5373081</guid> <dc:creator>A TACK</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-04-02T22:53:06Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: The heart/chest area and it´s importance in vipassana</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5328974</link> <description>I agree completely&lt;br /&gt;focusing on this pressure/pain too strongly and for too long is making strange sensations and this overall melancholia and hopelessness for few days. On the other hand to some degree it does help and doing such intense observations I was able to unlock some good vibes from this chakra, to understand it better. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It may as well be that observing this area less intensively but more often, at least at the beginning would yeld better results just as Goenka suggest</description> <pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2014 10:17:13 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5328974</guid> <dc:creator>Paweł K</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-03-20T10:17:13Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: The heart/chest area and it´s importance in vipassana</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5328833</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;And on 30 day courses in the Goenka tradition, there are instructions to observe this area for small periods of time...but not for too long becuase the idea seems to be that huge difilements, sleeping kilesas (bhavo sankharas as Goenka terms them) come out from there. And you can bring up some crazy stuff you aren´t ready for if you focus there for too long.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I didn&amp;#039;t know Goenka discouraged that. But it makes sense. I did it for probably a little too long in my first 10 day Goenka course, both out of curiousity and it was an intuition. Maybe I shouldn&amp;#039;t have done it. I felt tightness in my chest and decided to deal with it. I kept my attention focused there, observing the sensations. In the beginning it was just painful sensations, that I could deal with. As I observed them they did their thing and disappeared. (Looking back now, that might have given me some permanent release from some unresolved emotions.) But &amp;#034;under&amp;#034; them came very strong sensations. Much stronger than I could deal with. Might have been better to not dig too deep and deal with them when time is right. On the other hand, now I know what they are..Maybe that&amp;#039;s a plus. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So I can attest to the idea that you can bring up crazy stuff by focusing there too long. The stuff that comes up can overwhelm your ability observe them equanimously.</description> <pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2014 08:50:26 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5328833</guid> <dc:creator>Trial And Error</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-03-20T08:50:26Z</dc:date> </item> </channel> </rss> 