<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?> <rss xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" version="2.0"> <channel> <title>Stream Entry</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_category?p_l_id=&amp;mbCategoryId=89550</link> <description>Everything about how to attain stream entry that is specific to that goal can go here regardless of tradition.</description> <pubDate>Sun, 19 Oct 2014 00:30:58 GMT</pubDate> <dc:date>2014-10-19T00:30:58Z</dc:date> <item> <title>RE: Can a Vow be a Barrier to First Path?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5599490</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Eva M Nie:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;I don&amp;#039;t really understand vows.  If you want to do something than just do it.  If you are not already doing it, then parts of you must not be fully on board with doing it, and you should probably be looking at that issue first to see what the issues are.  If parts of you are not fully on board with doing it, then can you even trust yourself to keep the vow forever?  If you break the vow even once, then aren&amp;#039;t you instantly a liar?  And how many people never ever break their vows?  And as mentioned already, what if you change your mind later with hopefully improved insight and knowledge of self? &lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Eva,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Vows operate at the level of intention. Intention is the power behind karma. The idea behind vows is to harness the power of intention to achieve some positive result, positive karma in effect. Wanting to do something is kind of like a small version of a vow, the intention is generated but perhaps without the power of commiting to it that a vow has. With a vow, you say not only that you want to do it but that you intend to do it and put the full power of your effort behind it. Sometimes you even state the vow publically. So it is easier to not follow through or break the intention if the vow isn&amp;#039;t there. Of course, if you don&amp;#039;t follow through or break the vow, then you need to apply some mindfulness to figure out why. This often in and of itself leads to important insights. And it is often the case, as you say, that people put vows aside after the effect has been achieved. That effect can be a learning from the inability to achieve the vow or it can be from having deeply achieved it and having the vow no longer relevant. That&amp;#039;s been my experience of vows anyway.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There&amp;#039;s a couple of short essays that talk about vows, in a recent book &amp;#034;Seeds of Viritue, Seeds of Change&amp;#034; by Jikyo Cheryl Wolfer. The book is all by Zen priests who are women. I particularly recommend the essays &amp;#034;The Birth of Vow&amp;#034; by Jion Susan Postal (who died of cancer earlier this year) and &amp;#034;Notes from the Frontier&amp;#034; by Etsudo Patty Krahl. Patty is a good friend of mine, and I met Susan a couple of times over the years too.</description> <pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2014 02:53:11 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5599490</guid> <dc:creator>svmonk</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-06T02:53:11Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: What I do in EQ</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5598643</link> <description>Still sitting.  Still in Equanimity.  But I&amp;#039;ve been getting some interesting off-the-cushion effects:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;- I can usually at will shift into a kind of no-self mode where I am just watching my body doing things.  There is still a sense of self in my head, but it isn&amp;#039;t the doer.  It&amp;#039;s amazing to watch how skilled my body is at doing things like driving or making coffee.  I don&amp;#039;t even know when it&amp;#039;s going to shift gears, or how it&amp;#039;s going to move its hands in order to make a turn.  It also happens sometimes when I&amp;#039;m speaking and not in control of what&amp;#039;s being said.  This mode is pleasant.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;- I can also usually at will, shift into a panoramic vision mode, where my sense of being in a body disappears and I&amp;#039;m just a little node of consciousness floating through space as I go about my day.  This isn&amp;#039;t an infinite consciousness mode, because it stills feels like there is a center-point.  I can&amp;#039;t imagine what it would be like if the center-point vanished.  Sounds cool.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;- As I mentioned in another thread, I&amp;#039;ve figured out how to relax my cranial muscles with a little effort, but also at will.  I have to be doing something that&amp;#039;s not overly engaging, like reading or driving.  I&amp;#039;ve been experimenting with it, seeing if I can relax the muscles and try to keep them relaxed for as long as possible.  One interesting thing is that once I&amp;#039;ve relaxed them, I can&amp;#039;t re-tense them just by will; something has to grab my attention in such a way that they re-tense on their own.  This makes me think that my ability to relax them is actually an ability to relax the mind, which in turn relaxes the muscles.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;-T&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;-T</description> <pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2014 15:10:55 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5598643</guid> <dc:creator>Teague</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-05T15:10:55Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Can a Vow be a Barrier to First Path?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5597521</link> <description>I don&amp;#039;t really understand vows.  If you want to do something than just do it.  If you are not already doing it, then parts of you must not be fully on board with doing it, and you should probably be looking at that issue first to see what the issues are.  If parts of you are not fully on board with doing it, then can you even trust yourself to keep the vow forever?  If you break the vow even once, then aren&amp;#039;t you instantly a liar?  And how many people never ever break their vows?  And as mentioned already, what if you change your mind later with hopefully improved insight and knowledge of self? </description> <pubDate>Sat, 04 Oct 2014 05:29:54 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5597521</guid> <dc:creator>Eva M Nie</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-04T05:29:54Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Can a Vow be a Barrier to First Path?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5597469</link> <description>Thanx for the reference, I will check it out. Sounds interesting.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I was actually wondering if anyone subscribed to DhO and reading this who has achieved First Path or tried to and ran into the vow obstacle had such an experience, i.e. someone more contemporary?</description> <pubDate>Sat, 04 Oct 2014 04:26:23 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5597469</guid> <dc:creator>svmonk</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-04T04:26:23Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Can a Vow be a Barrier to First Path?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5597066</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Piers M:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I seem to remember reading something along the lines that because the vow had not been too strong, he was able to let go of it. Or rather he decided that he wanted liberation in that very life and to not continue with his previous aspiration (same thing I suppose). &lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It&amp;#039;s supposed to be a freebie but it is for sale on Amazon or you can read it online &lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;buddhanet&amp;#x2e;net&amp;#x2f;pdf_file&amp;#x2f;acariya-mun-bio&amp;#x2e;pdf"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;~Piers&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;buddhanet&amp;#x2e;net&amp;#x2f;pdf_file&amp;#x2f;acariya-mun-bio&amp;#x2e;pdf"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Umm if memory serves me it was a vow to gain enlightenment with his long term companion, who was not incarnated at that time. He got it then went and had the companion incarnate in some kind of deva realm where he taught them what was needed to get it.&lt;br /&gt;It is a fun read....lots of cool stuff I&amp;#039;ve never been exposed to mythologically. Probably should read it again....got me wondering.&lt;br /&gt;~D</description> <pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2014 18:57:06 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5597066</guid> <dc:creator>Dream Walker</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-03T18:57:06Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Can a Vow be a Barrier to First Path?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5597058</link> <description>Formal resolutions like that actually do have power, and even the belief that you might have made a vow has similar power, so your resolution as stated above sounds like a great plan.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Settle into this moment, as it is here, now, all throughout that the thing is found, as this is it.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Daniel</description> <pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2014 18:40:40 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5597058</guid> <dc:creator>Daniel M. Ingram</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-03T18:40:40Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Can a Vow be a Barrier to First Path?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5596551</link> <description>Haha.  That&amp;#039;s an interesting concept.  In light of that:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Let it be known that I hereby renounce any such vows I have made that would hinder my progress towards first path!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Now I shall go meditate.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;-T</description> <pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2014 23:41:09 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5596551</guid> <dc:creator>Teague</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-02T23:41:09Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Can a Vow be a Barrier to First Path?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5596524</link> <description>You might like to read the book &amp;#034;&lt;span style="color: #333333"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;Venerable Acariya Mun Bhuridatta Thera, A Spiritual Biography &lt;span style="color: #333333"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;by Acariya Maha Boowa Nanasampanno&amp;#034;. It&amp;#039;s a classic of its kind about the life of an extraordinarily gifted Thai monk in the last century and there is a passage written in there that at some point during his meditation he realized he had made a vow in a previous life to become a Buddha which was blocking his progress towards arahantship in that life. &lt;br /&gt;I seem to remember reading something along the lines that because the vow had not been too strong, he was able to let go of it. Or rather he decided that he wanted liberation in that very life and to not continue with his previous aspiration (same thing I suppose). &lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It&amp;#039;s supposed to be a freebie but it is for sale on Amazon or you can read it online &lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;buddhanet&amp;#x2e;net&amp;#x2f;pdf_file&amp;#x2f;acariya-mun-bio&amp;#x2e;pdf"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;~Piers&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;buddhanet&amp;#x2e;net&amp;#x2f;pdf_file&amp;#x2f;acariya-mun-bio&amp;#x2e;pdf"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;</description> <pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2014 22:34:21 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5596524</guid> <dc:creator>Piers M</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-02T22:34:21Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Can a Vow be a Barrier to First Path?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5596361</link> <description>don&amp;#039;t worry about it. It does not make sense to have this kind of vow but if you have then you can always brake it by wanting to attain Buddhahood as fast as possible.</description> <pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2014 17:23:04 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5596361</guid> <dc:creator>Rist Ei</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-02T17:23:04Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>Can a Vow be a Barrier to First Path?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5595957</link> <description>I posted this in another thread that petered out, so I&amp;#039;m hoping maybe I can get some opinions from others here. I guess most people view barriers to First Path as being the usual sorts of psychological baggage like the hinderances, but I&amp;#039;m interested in something different. Specifically, whether a vow can be a barrier. Mahasi Saydaw says something to that effect in his book &amp;#034;The Seven Stages of Purification and The Insight Knowledges&amp;#034;. This book goes through a traditional treatment of the stages of insight, which Daniel  updates with a more modern treatment in MCTB. But on pg. 52 he says:&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;Some meditators are unable to go beyond the Knowledge of Equanimity about &lt;br /&gt;Formations due to some powerful aspirations they have made in the past, &lt;br /&gt;such as for Buddhahood, or Paccekabuddhahood, Chief Discipleship, etc. &lt;br /&gt;In fact, it is at this stage that one can ascertain whether one has made&lt;br /&gt; any such aspiration in the past. Sometimes when he has reached this &lt;br /&gt;stage the meditator himself comes to feel that he is cherishing a &lt;br /&gt;powerful aspiration. However, even for an aspirant to Buddhahood or &lt;br /&gt;Paccekabuddahood, the Knowledge of Equanimity about Formations will be &lt;br /&gt;an asset towards his fulfilment of the perfection of wisdom &lt;br /&gt;(panna-parami). This Equanimity of Formations is of no small &lt;br /&gt;significance when one takes into account the high degree of development &lt;br /&gt;in knowledge at this stage&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;What Mahasi Saydaw seems to be saying here is that if one has an aspiration, either taken in this life or a previous one, to become a buddha in a future life, one cannot get beyond High Equanimity and First Path is blocked. In fact, the last sentence seems to imply that such a person doesn&amp;#039;t cycle back to the A&amp;amp;P and thorough the Dark Night and Reobservation again, but remains in High Equanimity. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Has anyone heard any cases where this has happened to someone? Or is this a set of beliefs, like the traditional &amp;#034;elimination of defilements&amp;#034; at each path which Daniel in MCTB indicates from his experience and that of lots of others is more a kind  of wishful thinking? &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;One aspect of this statement is that it is framed in a belief structure which affirms physical rebirth. After all, whether or not one made an aspiration for Buddhahood and the rest is kind of moot if one doesn&amp;#039;t believe in rebirth (the Secular/Natural Buddhism viewpoint). Maybe like Brahmavihara practice, such an aspiration in the absence of rebirth is just a technique to improve one&amp;#039;s character/psychological state? Within the &lt;br /&gt;belief structure of rebirth over a hundred thousand  lifetimes, stopping short of elimination of the self sort of makes sense. If you are trying to save all beings (the Mahayana Bodhisattva Vow), a sense of agency might come in handy. But, on the other hand, it also might get in the way if &lt;br /&gt;it gets too strong.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Any thoughts?</description> <pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2014 03:01:48 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5595957</guid> <dc:creator>svmonk</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-02T03:01:48Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: How do you experience stream entry?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5594450</link> <description>Awareness.&lt;br /&gt; Directing your practice to awareness. Realizing that you have awareness and its not just concept but you also can sense it. &amp;#034;I am&amp;#034;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;When you are doing noting practice its like extra effort what you really don&amp;#039;t need to do, its like a degradation from awareness. You just need to stop noting and just notice your own self.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Meditation is working with your self, if its mechanical sensless doing like riding a bike then you could also note your whole life and still not get it even if you have some weird experiences.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;and what level enlightenment is it depends what stage your self energies are at.</description> <pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2014 10:54:10 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5594450</guid> <dc:creator>Rist Ei</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-30T10:54:10Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>How do you experience stream entry?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5594344</link> <description>When you meditate, what is the process you experience in which delivers you to experience stream entry?</description> <pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2014 05:58:10 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5594344</guid> <dc:creator>old dried leaf</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-30T05:58:10Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: What I do in EQ</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5590967</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Arial"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;Can you elaborate on what you mean by exterior objects?  By that, do you mean opening your eyes (cause I know you do that)?  Would you not get the sense of self from focusing on your foot, say, because it&amp;#039;s part of &amp;#034;you&amp;#034;?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Arial"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Yes, I did open my eyes softly (in a candlelit room) and gaze at the carpet. But it works with that &amp;#034;nada&amp;#034; sound too--the layers of different pitches, tones, and frequency you can &amp;#034;hear.&amp;#034; And, by the way, I could look at my foot or leg in High EQ and have the peculiar sense that it was something &lt;em&gt;other&lt;/em&gt;, object, and this sense would produce this bounce back to a sense of self. Something very odd is going on with the subject-object split! Pretty wild stuff!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Enjoy,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Jenny&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description> <pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2014 05:47:48 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5590967</guid> <dc:creator>_</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-24T05:47:48Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: What I do in EQ</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5590910</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Zendo Calrissian:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;This thread has been very useful to me.  Keep posting!&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Glad to hear it.  Enlightenment is a team sport, after all.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Droll Dedekind:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;When I was in this territory I threw nearly every technique I had at it. I experimented constantly with tuning the effort up or down. Though, sticking with my practice was probably the hardest lesson at this stage, and still is when I&amp;#039;m in EQ.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I agree with Jen on not underestimating the power of resolutions. Notice the subtle difference between desire/craving and resolve/will. Try making a strong resolve that resonates with you at the start of every sit. Become absolutely convinced that you&amp;#039;ll get SE soon. Then, during your sit, act on that resolve by not wondering about progress. If you&amp;#039;re truly convinced SE isn&amp;#039;t far away, then there&amp;#039;s no need to wonder.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;That&amp;#039;s basically been my MO.  It&amp;#039;s kinda like a craftsman working in his shop; he&amp;#039;ll grab and use this tool for a little bit, set it down and pick up that tool, then step back and contemplate for a minute.  Some of the tools I&amp;#039;ve been using, in no particular order: body scanning, noting, direct inquiry (who am I?), doing nothing, following the breath, searching for hidden processes, disolving chunky sensations, letting go, and probably some others.  Though it sounds eclectic and all over the place, my sits have actually felt pretty productive, and so I&amp;#039;m not super angsty about not getting SE right away... though it would be nice.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As for resolutions, I&amp;#039;ve taken and used this advice, but it always feels ingenuine when I make them.  Like I hear the thoughts making the resolution and have a no-self moment of thinking who the hell is making that and who the hell is listening.  I feel like the best resolutions are made in a desire-for-deliverance-like moment where you&amp;#039;ve just had enough, which I&amp;#039;ve also had in EQ.  Today in fact I had a good long sit, and at one point near the end I had a thorough feeling of &amp;#034;fuck it&amp;#034;, and with it a feeling of striving dropped away that I didn&amp;#039;t know was there until it dropped.  My immidiate awareness of it&amp;#039;s absense brought it back within about a second, but now I know about it &amp;#x2013; the jig is up for that feeling of striving! &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Dream Walker:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;From nother thread - &lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;dharmaoverground&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;discussion&amp;#x2f;-&amp;#x2f;message_boards&amp;#x2f;message&amp;#x2f;1978584&amp;#x23;_19_message_1973107"&gt;http://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/message/1978584#_19_message_1973107&lt;/a&gt;&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Daniel M. Ingram:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;Or, one might be high up in Equanimity and yet not be able to land a Fruition. One might ask oneself, &amp;#034;What core process, subtle background or foreground sensations, or other patterns of experience are not yet brought into the clear light in the way I have done for so many objects?&amp;#034; In this way, one sees what one is missing and, having learned to see those objects naturally also, lands it.&lt;br /&gt;I hope this is helpful,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Daniel&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;DW, you&amp;#039;re like the archivist of the Dho, always trotting out the pertinent threads for someone.&lt;br /&gt;Thank you, this is a good one, I had forgot about it.  I did some of that investigating today and uncovered some such sensations.  We can certainly get lulled into patters of feeling.  The trickiest feelings for me (and I think others) are in the head which localize our sense of self.  They are so tricky that it almost seems like a waste of time to untangle them at this point.  What do you think?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Jen Pearly:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;Yes, again. For me it was all the sensations that I normally think of as &amp;#034;me&amp;#034; that I wasn&amp;#039;t seeing. And then, when I tried to, I grew weary of searching for a self. But as soon as I focused again on exterior objects--BAM, I had a sense of self! This was a key realization for me, and XX put it so well, subsequently--that subject and object create each other.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So good advice to remember--ask yourself what you aren&amp;#039;t seeing clearly.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Best to you, Teague. So great to see how well your practice is going!&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I actually had some success in rooting out some self sensations today.  I used to try the direct inquiry method of asking &amp;#034;who am I&amp;#034; and I would get some Teaguey feelings in the chest and head and then I could vipassanate (yes, I just verbed that noun) those.  But up in EQ, things are quieter and when I ask &amp;#034;who am I&amp;#034;, I get crickets.  They don&amp;#039;t respond to being called to in EQ, it seems; you have to go in search of them.  I wish I could remember the successful example I had from my sit today, but I can&amp;#039;t.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Can you elaborate on what you mean by exterior objects?  By that, do you mean opening your eyes (cause I know you do that)?  Would you not get the sense of self from focusing on your foot, say, because it&amp;#039;s part of &amp;#034;you&amp;#034;?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thanks everyone,&lt;br /&gt;T</description> <pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2014 03:10:08 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5590910</guid> <dc:creator>Teague</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-24T03:10:08Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: What I do in EQ</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5590780</link> <description>Yes, again. For me it was all the sensations that I normally think of as &amp;#034;me&amp;#034; that I wasn&amp;#039;t seeing. And then, when I tried to, I grew weary of searching for a self. But as soon as I focused again on exterior objects--BAM, I had a sense of self! This was a key realization for me, and XX put it so well, subsequently--that subject and object create each other.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So good advice to remember--ask yourself what you aren&amp;#039;t seeing clearly.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Best to you, Teague. So great to see how well your practice is going!</description> <pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2014 00:06:02 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5590780</guid> <dc:creator>_</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-24T00:06:02Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: What I do in EQ</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5590768</link> <description>&lt;strong&gt;Droll Dedekind:&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Arial"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;Notice the subtle difference between desire/craving and resolve/will. Try making a strong resolve that resonates with you at the start of every sit. Become absolutely convinced that you&amp;#039;ll get SE soon. Then, during your sit, act on that resolve by not wondering about progress. If you&amp;#039;re truly convinced SE isn&amp;#039;t far away, then there&amp;#039;s no need to wonder.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Arial"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Well said. Perfect. This is exactly how it worked for me, too. I really did just absolutely believe it would come, because I was clearly in High EQ. So craving it was anathema--although I do think during one sit I experienced a near miss because I tensed up around what was coming. Later, I knew it was coming and I didn&amp;#039;t worry about when. That is key. I enjoyed just prolonging EQ, staying with it, day after day. I also experienced those periods of boredom in it. But, hey, even those at least aren&amp;#039;t the Knowledge of Suffering, so EQ in itself is such a relief--why strain after anything else?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description> <pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2014 00:00:37 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5590768</guid> <dc:creator>_</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-24T00:00:37Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: What I do in EQ</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5590674</link> <description>From nother thread - &lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;dharmaoverground&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;discussion&amp;#x2f;-&amp;#x2f;message_boards&amp;#x2f;message&amp;#x2f;1978584&amp;#x23;_19_message_1973107"&gt;http://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/message/1978584#_19_message_1973107&lt;/a&gt;&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Daniel M. Ingram:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;Or, one might be high up in Equanimity and yet not be able to land a Fruition. One might ask oneself, &amp;#034;What core process, subtle background or foreground sensations, or other patterns of experience are not yet brought into the clear light in the way I have done for so many objects?&amp;#034; In this way, one sees what one is missing and, having learned to see those objects naturally also, lands it.&lt;br /&gt;I hope this is helpful,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Daniel&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description> <pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2014 23:28:52 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5590674</guid> <dc:creator>Dream Walker</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-23T23:28:52Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: What I do in EQ</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5590473</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Droll Dedekind:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;I agree with Jen on not underestimating the power of resolutions. Try making a strong resolve that resonates with you at the start of every sit. &lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;Yep, good advice Droll. Set your intention then fuggitabout it and practice like normal. &lt;br /&gt;Tell your sub-conscious this is what you want. Ask for help from your higher self, buddhas, spirit guides/helpers, whatever has meaning to you. Do some magic. Do some hypnosis. Whatever has the most meaning to you.....then let it go and just practice diligently and with skill, and then let even that go.</description> <pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2014 21:17:00 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5590473</guid> <dc:creator>Dream Walker</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-23T21:17:00Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: What I do in EQ</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5590310</link> <description>When I was in this territory I threw nearly every technique I had at it. I experimented constantly with tuning the effort up or down. Though, sticking with my practice was probably the hardest lesson at this stage, and still is when I&amp;#039;m in EQ.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I agree with Jen on not underestimating the power of resolutions. Notice the subtle difference between desire/craving and resolve/will. Try making a strong resolve that resonates with you at the start of every sit. Become absolutely convinced that you&amp;#039;ll get SE soon. Then, during your sit, act on that resolve by not wondering about progress. If you&amp;#039;re truly convinced SE isn&amp;#039;t far away, then there&amp;#039;s no need to wonder.</description> <pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2014 19:24:57 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5590310</guid> <dc:creator>Droll Dedekind</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-23T19:24:57Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: What I do in EQ</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5590131</link> <description>This thread has been very useful to me.  Keep posting!</description> <pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2014 16:14:09 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5590131</guid> <dc:creator>Zendo Calrissian</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-23T16:14:09Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: What I do in EQ</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5590017</link> <description>Totally awesome breakdown...you got me laughing. Yep yep and yep.&lt;br /&gt;You&amp;#039;re lining up the nails and whacking them.&lt;br /&gt;&amp;#034;equanimous to equanimity&amp;#034;...yes exactly....this is where the feeling of just drifting comes in for me...like I don&amp;#039;t even care about my EQ anymore. You give up trying to control it and just finally let it do you.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The feeling of sit done totally sux....I still fall for it today....got mine...ho hum now what.....oh wait, I was gonna actually do something while meditating....what was it? oh ya get path...&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Keep up the diligence and skill&lt;br /&gt;~D</description> <pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2014 07:58:34 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5590017</guid> <dc:creator>Dream Walker</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-23T07:58:34Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: What I do in EQ</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5589035</link> <description>Motivation is getting slightly harder to maintain &amp;#x2013; just slightly, but still noticeable. Practicing the dhamma is currently still my priority numero uno, but I have to put in some effort to keep my mind interested. On the cushion, this manifests as my mind wandering more frequently and having to be more diligent about noting it and bringing it back. I think I should read fewer of the debate-oriented posts on here.&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;Having worked my way up to and through EQ so many times now (basically every day for a month or more), I’m beginning to see patterns in EQ that I think must be the sub-ñanas.  I have a hard time describing them, because they’re so ridiculously subtle, but here’s a shot at the broad arc of it.&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;&lt;ul style="list-style: disc outside;"&gt;&lt;li&gt;The initial shift into EQ ranges from pretty apparent to rather subtle.  Sometimes I’ll have a split mind where one half is attending to sensations and doing vipassana, and the other half is just screwing off.  From what I’ve read this shouldn’t really be possible, but I’ve definitely noticed progressing through the insight stages with a pretty wandery mind.  Sometimes when I notice the split mind and note it to an end, I’ll also note that it seems like I’m in EQ.  At this point I’ll practice vigorously to see if it breaks up into something else or if it refines into more EQ.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;After some time my mind will get more settled with less wandering, and I let up on vipassana, but still try to control focus to some degree.  I’ll usually fall into a pretty sharp mind state while watching something specific like the breath or my head/chest.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;This sharp mind state then dissolves and things become really ordinary.  The sense of everything vibrating becomes less pronounced, and feels like experience off the cushion.  It has a very strong feeling of “okay, this sit feels over; time to get up,” and at this point I usually do get up because it’s been an hour or more.  I thought this feeling was just from slacking off on the concentration I just had, but it’s a distinct feeling that comes almost every time, which makes me think it’s symptomatic of some sub-ñana.  &lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Today I kept sitting past that and the mind plunged back down into the vibrating stew of experience, which had a slightly different flavor than before.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul style="list-style: disc outside;"&gt; &lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;I used to feel things like anticipation and excitement if some batch of sensations gave the impression of something big about to happen.  Those feelings are totally gone now.  It’s almost like you have to become equanimous to equanimity.&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;-T</description> <pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2014 01:18:13 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5589035</guid> <dc:creator>Teague</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-23T01:18:13Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: What I do in EQ</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5583528</link> <description>Progressing by small degrees.  I still get into EQ in my sits every day, and what I think of as &amp;#034;high EQ&amp;#034; keeps getting refined and pushed further.  I had an interesting experience yesterday that would be well described as boundless space/consciousness, but I&amp;#039;m not claiming a formless jhana because I still had some subtle analytical thoughts as well as awareness of my body (therefore not formless), but if felt very much as though my sense of self became totally un-localized within my head or body.  It lasted for about 15 minutes.  I observed the state with curiosity but without noticable attachment.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&amp;#039;ve been reading material from the Awakening to reality blog, and find Thusness&amp;#039;s vipassana instructions of just trying to feel things as clearly as possible without trying to control attention to be helpful in the latter stages of EQ.  I&amp;#039;m finding that bare attention is a learnable skill, and each sit I&amp;#039;m able to &amp;#034;do nothing&amp;#034; more and more, as paradoxical as that statement sounds.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I know that this stage of practice can go on for an indefinite amount of time, but I do feel like I&amp;#039;m pushing my cutting edge a little further each day, so I&amp;#039;m trying to keep myself motivated and patient.  I&amp;#039;m signed up to sit a 30-day in January, but I only want to do it if I haven&amp;#039;t gotten SE by then.  </description> <pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2014 15:51:17 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5583528</guid> <dc:creator>Teague</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-14T15:51:17Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: What I do in EQ</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5583509</link> <description>How are things now ?</description> <pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2014 14:51:58 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5583509</guid> <dc:creator>Sweet Nothing</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-14T14:51:58Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: What I do in EQ</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5575490</link> <description>Because equanimity is relatively pleasant, my life has been relatively pleasant lately.  I remember years ago when I used to go on a hike with my journal, sit on a rock, and write about all my woes and the sufferings of life.  Not anymore.  I can go for a walk in the woods and just sort of flow; not worrying (much) or trying to force myself to enjoy it a certain way.&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;But no matter how much less suffering is present in my life now, it’s not less enough.  And no matter how much equanimity I have, it’s not enough to smother the subtle feeling of “COME ON ALREADY!”&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;Practice is my number one thing in life right now.  I’m fortunate that everything else is going well enough that life is sort of on auto-pilot, leaving my mind to be focused completely on getting stream entry (except for watching the occasional episode of Battlestar Galactica).&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;EQ is certainly a tricky little ñana.  Every other one I how to just power through, but there seems to be no powering-through EQ.  It’s like a coaxing or charming of the mind.  Tricking it into wanting something it doesn’t yet want and hasn’t yet sampled.&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;I use the doing nothing approach, but when nothing begets nothing, I wonder if I’m doing nothing ENOUGH.  Or maybe it’s that I’m DOING nothing, and the DOING is too much.&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;I’ll also wonder if I’ve strived to the point to stop striving, or if a little more striving is necessary, so I’ll occasionally strive some more before doing nothing.&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;It’s like jiggling a key in a sticky lock.  You know it’s the right key and that it’s opened this door before.  All you have to do is just jiggle it in the right way.</description> <pubDate>Sun, 31 Aug 2014 01:58:56 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5575490</guid> <dc:creator>Teague</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-31T01:58:56Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Taking a year off to attain stream entry</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5574054</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Richard Zen:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt; I do remember when my self-referencing was massively attenuated.  I was walking down the street and thinking about difficult life stuff and I noticed that the self-referencing was completely gone.  The brain finally clued in that self-judgment and bashing is useless and discarded it.  I&amp;#039;m sure it was memorable for you as well.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This was one of the biggest benefits to come out of practice for me. Self-judgment feels like it&amp;#039;s largely a thing of the past. It took me a while to notice this, but it was one hell of a revelation, given how things have been for a large part of life. External judgments continue though, so it&amp;#039;s a daily reminder of how much work is left to do.</description> <pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2014 16:58:32 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5574054</guid> <dc:creator>Small Steps</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-26T16:58:32Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Taking a year off to attain stream entry</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5574028</link> <description>I haven&amp;#039;t read the book.  For stream-entry look at the first 3 fetters:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetter_(Buddhism)]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetter_(Buddhism)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Sorry the link is a fucked up. &lt;img alt="emoticon" src="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dho-theme/images/emoticons/smile.gif" &gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;ol style="list-style: decimal outside;"&gt;&lt;span style="color: #252525"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: sans-serif"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;li&gt;belief in a self (Pali: &lt;em&gt;sakkāya-diṭṭhi&lt;/em&gt;)&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;doubt or uncertainty, especially about the &lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;en&amp;#x2e;wikipedia&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;wiki&amp;#x2f;Dhamma"&gt;teachings&lt;/a&gt; (&lt;em&gt;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;en&amp;#x2e;wikipedia&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;wiki&amp;#x2f;Vicikicch&amp;#x25;C4&amp;#x25;81"&gt;vicikicchā&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;)&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;attachment to rites and rituals (&lt;em&gt;sīlabbata-parāmāso&lt;/em&gt;)&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ol&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description> <pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2014 16:43:35 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5574028</guid> <dc:creator>Richard Zen</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-26T16:43:35Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Taking a year off to attain stream entry</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5574020</link> <description>Awesome thanks! I ll have a look at that! I really resonated with  Chogyam Trungpa in his book &amp;#034;Cutting though spiritual materialism&amp;#034;, he speaks of the narrow path and of the open path, what do you think about these? &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The delusions have diminished tremendously and there is a kind of loving-kindness lightness feel to most experience. Not seeing thoughts as &amp;#034;bad&amp;#034; but as a side effects of being alive was a major breakthrough and I feel like this understanding is getting more and more integrated. As of believing in the Buddha, I don&amp;#039;t really know what that means, I surely believe in this moment as it is and the peace that comes from surrendering to the whole experience of each moment.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I plane tickets for Asia are bought but not I don&amp;#039;t feel like noting like crazy. I feel like integrating this new perspective to my life situation and learning to open to each moment. So, I was thinking of trying to enjoy my self in Asia and maybe stop by at Pa-Auk to do some concentration work.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thanks,&lt;br /&gt;Nicolas</description> <pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2014 16:33:26 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5574020</guid> <dc:creator>Nicolas</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-26T16:33:26Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Taking a year off to attain stream entry</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5573960</link> <description>Congrats! If it&amp;#039;s not stream entry it&amp;#039;s probably equanimity.  I do remember when my self-referencing was massively attenuated.  I was walking down the street and thinking about difficult life stuff and I noticed that the self-referencing was completely gone.  The brain finally clued in that self-judgment and bashing is useless and discarded it.  I&amp;#039;m sure it was memorable for you as well.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The problem with stream-entry is that some people don&amp;#039;t notice it but do notice large improvements.  The focus should be on whether greed, hatred and delusion are reduced.  The classic prescription is if you don&amp;#039;t believe in rites and rituals, you don&amp;#039;t doubt the Buddha, and you don&amp;#039;t believe in a permanent self anymore.  This has to be convincing to you in actual experience.  If it is then it is stream-entry.  It&amp;#039;s very important that you don&amp;#039;t cling to a consciousness in some &amp;#034;location&amp;#034; and develop aversion to thoughts.  Thoughts should be integrated.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;You&amp;#039;ll still have old habits but now you can continue to decondition them.  Keep relaxing the push and pull of desire and aversion and enjoy the relief.  A lot of advice I gave you is more along the direct path method.  To continue forward I think you&amp;#039;ll like the book review I did recently.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;dharmaoverground&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;web&amp;#x2f;guest&amp;#x2f;discussion&amp;#x2f;-&amp;#x2f;message_boards&amp;#x2f;message&amp;#x2f;5572057"&gt;http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/5572057&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;I especially like the reminder that everything is letting go already.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Keep refining the views and learning more about the middle path with Nagarjuna.  As long as you hold to extreme views like a permanent &amp;#034;is&amp;#034; for &amp;#034;things&amp;#034; or a &amp;#034;is not&amp;#034; (nihilism) there will still be lots of clinging.  Any measurement can have some subtle self-referencing.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Good luck for your future practice!</description> <pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2014 15:51:04 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5573960</guid> <dc:creator>Richard Zen</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-26T15:51:04Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Taking a year off to attain stream entry</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5573929</link> <description>Thank you again Richard, I kept practicing what you told me, went to serve on a 10-day Goenka course and I am pretty sure I got stream entry &lt;img alt="emoticon" src="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dho-theme/images/emoticons/happy.gif" &gt;&lt;br /&gt;It&amp;#039;s been a week now since I suddendly started seeing things &amp;#034;as they are&amp;#034; with a background of sympathatic joy and humor. Effortless awareness most of the time. Pain, sorrow, neurotic stuff etc. are still there, but somewhere deep down a big part of my &amp;#034;judment mechanism&amp;#034; is gone so I naturally accept things as they are for what there are. Don&amp;#039;t know if it was stream entry, not exciting as I was expecting it to be, way more real and practical than I thought. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Anyhow, thanks for your help!&lt;br /&gt;Nicolas</description> <pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2014 14:48:05 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5573929</guid> <dc:creator>Nicolas</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-26T14:48:05Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Can Stream Entry Knock One Out of Equanimity and Formations?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5573590</link> <description>Great! Best wishes, Alex. I was quite surprised that it happened, even though I had been in EQ for a couple of months, finally getting to High EQ for the first time (instead of slipping back down after Low EQ). It is true what people say: the SE even happens during moments when you aren&amp;#039;t looking for it, though resolutions to get it the night beforehand obviously seemed to help.</description> <pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2014 02:52:52 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5573590</guid> <dc:creator>_</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-26T02:52:52Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Can Stream Entry Knock One Out of Equanimity and Formations?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5573536</link> <description>Really great descriptions in here. Fascinating and motivational stuff. Congrats on having it happen. I feel like I keep inching closer and closer and reading this thread further normalizes stream entry for me. Especially since it took you a year. Its been three for me and Im clearly reaching EQ each day and am enjoying investigation more and more, sometimes when im in the DN even. Fun thread!</description> <pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2014 23:00:17 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5573536</guid> <dc:creator>Alex E</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-25T23:00:17Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: What I do in EQ</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5573187</link> <description>oh, just make sure you are in high EQ..otherwise this is totally crappy advice...strive to the spot you stop striving.&lt;br /&gt;~D</description> <pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2014 04:28:37 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5573187</guid> <dc:creator>Dream Walker</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-25T04:28:37Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: What I do in EQ</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5573179</link> <description>Hey&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;I sat for several hours today and spent most of it doing nothing... or at least trying ;-) .  There were certainly times when I wasn’t drowsy, yet my mind would be kinda dreamy.  As you said Jen, it can seem as though I wasn’t meditating all that well, but I tried to just keep surrendering, yet with awareness.  Definitely feels like a paradoxical zone of practice.&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;In this state I periodically get little rushes of energy in the top of my head or feelings like my mind is contracting.  They have a faint aroma of A&amp;amp;P, but according to the explanation [url=]&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;alohadharma&amp;#x2e;wordpress&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;the-map&amp;#x2f;equanimity-2&amp;#x2f;"&gt;in this link&lt;/a&gt;[url=] they are normal.&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;I sat for quite a while today, and I admit that I was a little bored toward the end.  Or maybe a more accurate statement is that there was boredom present, but I observed it and could remain mostly equanimous toward it.&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;I think I’m on the right track and just need to keep doing more of the same.&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;Thanks for the help,&lt;br /&gt;Teague</description> <pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2014 04:03:33 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5573179</guid> <dc:creator>Teague</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-25T04:03:33Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: What I do in EQ</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5572999</link> <description>Just be, &lt;br /&gt;keep watching,&lt;br /&gt; chill, &lt;br /&gt;dont intellectualize so much!</description> <pubDate>Sun, 24 Aug 2014 17:43:56 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5572999</guid> <dc:creator>Sweet Nothing</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-24T17:43:56Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: What I do in EQ</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5572848</link> <description>I agree with DreamWalker. I just went through EQ recently to what I (and others) suspect was SE, as you know. EQ was really a trickster. I did have to figure out that it was not only okay to &amp;#034;do nothing,&amp;#034; but was actually required. So no noting. I just relaxed and let it show up. I often felt like I was slipping into daydream and not meditating well. I had to learn that it wasn&amp;#039;t that I needed to change the meditation, but that I had to let the meditation do its inclusive thing to change me. Then I synced up with it.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Also, someone (DW?) gave me the suggestion of making a formal resolution to reach stream entry. The one and only time I did so was the night before SE happened. But I forgot about the resolution during the actual sit that led to cessation. And I think the forgetting is essential, helpful. The SE comes out of left field while you are focused on just watching in the here and now for the here and now--expecially passings away. I was watching those with fixed curiosity, not even remembering stream as a goal, when the discontinuity hit.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Best to you,&lt;br /&gt;Jenny</description> <pubDate>Sun, 24 Aug 2014 07:59:26 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5572848</guid> <dc:creator>_</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-24T07:59:26Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: What I do in EQ</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5572346</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Teague:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;It seems like there are two modes to operate in during EQ: &lt;br /&gt;Hard scrutiny&lt;br /&gt;Open Awareness&lt;br /&gt;These both feel effective and I use them.  Is one better than the other?&lt;br /&gt;-T&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If you are getting to high EQ I would do choiceless awareness and let the sensations present themselves to you with little noting as possible. Try doing nothing at all and let thoughts/mind get a bit dreamy and take the back seat...they will still operate on their own but there is a different quality that you are looking for that is not identifying with the mind at all. Let stuff just happen and gently notice a different state of deep relaxation...it&amp;#039;s impossible to describe the state quality besides kinda just before sleep...if you are used to surfing the awake/sleep border it&amp;#039;s kinda like that a bit. Any &amp;#034;doing&amp;#034; does not help. You can only &amp;#034;do&amp;#034; to get to high EQ then let go. See what happens. You might even try reclining a couple times and see if you can relax deeper into it without falling asleep. &lt;br /&gt;Don&amp;#039;t underestimate making resolutions to SE before a sit.&lt;br /&gt;Good luck,&lt;br /&gt;~D</description> <pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2014 08:45:48 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5572346</guid> <dc:creator>Dream Walker</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-23T08:45:48Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: What I do in EQ</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5572250</link> <description>&lt;span style="font-family: Helvetica"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 12px"&gt;Yup, I’ve read them all, but they’re always good to read again.    &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Reading Kenneth’s descriptions of low/med/high, I have to say that high sounds familiar.  I think I go through low and mid each time though, which makes sense.  But I certainly get to a point (maybe not every time) where thoughts really settle down, my whole sensory experience is opened up, and sitting becomes totally effortless.  All that stops me is that I’ve only carved out an hour for meditating and I have to go have dinner with my wife or something.  I’m going to start doing mini day-long retreats on the weekend, I think. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt; &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Helvetica"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 12px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Helvetica"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 12px"&gt;It seems like there are two modes to operate in during EQ:  &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;ol style="list-style: decimal outside;"&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Helvetica"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 12px"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 12px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;Hard scrutiny, where I closely examine how the 3Cs apply to sensations, and root out any traces of clinging or aversion.  This feels active and usually involves noting.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Helvetica"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 12px"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 12px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;Open Awareness, where I merely keep my attention in the framework of my body, keeping one of the 3Cs in mind, but letting things unfold on their own.  This feels passive and might involve some gentle notes, such as “wandering” when my mind wanders.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ol&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Helvetica"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 12px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Helvetica"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 12px"&gt;These both feel effective and I use them.  Is one better than the other?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Helvetica"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 12px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Helvetica"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 12px"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;-T&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description> <pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2014 01:30:06 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5572250</guid> <dc:creator>Teague</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-23T01:30:06Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: What I do in EQ</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5572117</link> <description>Well if you are in EQ then it&amp;#039;s time to become more familiar about it. Have you reread MCTB about it? Read this too - &lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;contemplativefitnessbook&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;book-two-theory&amp;#x2f;the-progress-of-insight-map&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x23;Knowledge_of_Equanimity_Stage_11"&gt;Knowledge_of_Equanimity_Stage_11&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There is quite a bit of territory all wrapped up in EQ. It kinda seems in a way that you have to figure out how to meditate all over again in it sometimes.&lt;br /&gt;Are you in low medium or high EQ? &lt;br /&gt;~D</description> <pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2014 19:05:04 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5572117</guid> <dc:creator>Dream Walker</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-22T19:05:04Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: What I do in EQ</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5571913</link> <description>Try Nick&amp;#039;s blog:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;thehamiltonproject&amp;#x2e;blogspot&amp;#x2e;ca&amp;#x2f;2014&amp;#x2f;07&amp;#x2f;the-yogi-toolbox-specific-neutrality&amp;#x2e;html"&gt;http://thehamiltonproject.blogspot.ca/2014/07/the-yogi-toolbox-specific-neutrality.html&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;Specific neutrality</description> <pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2014 13:51:06 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5571913</guid> <dc:creator>Richard Zen</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-22T13:51:06Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>What I do in EQ</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5571895</link> <description>&lt;span style="font-family: Helvetica"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 12px"&gt;Hey Dho,&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Helvetica"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 12px"&gt; &lt;br /&gt;  I’m starting a thread to record my experiences in equanimity, to help my navigating of it toward stream entry.  I’ve been getting into EQ in my daily sits regularly and I feel like I’m edging close toward the unknown.  I’ve been in this situation before about two and a half years ago, but it slipped away as other things in life overwhelmed my mind.  For over a year, I’ve been “meditating” every day, but sometimes all it amounts to is sitting on the cushion and thinking  Which is not altogether a waste of time, but certainly not conducive toward enlightenment.  Now life has settled down and I have a renewed ferver toward finally getting this dang thing done.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Helvetica"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 12px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Helvetica"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 12px"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;For this first post, I’ll outline what a normal hour-long sit might look like:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;ul style="list-style: disc outside;"&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Helvetica"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 12px"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 12px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;Usually within the first few minutes I’ll start noticing A&amp;amp;P like experiences without any sign of the first three ñanas.  There will be light phantoms in the minds eye, pressure in the forehead/third eye, energy rods up the spine, bright tingling throughout the body.  There is usually no single dramatic A&amp;amp;P event.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Helvetica"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 12px"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 12px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;The A&amp;amp;P stuff settles down 15 or so minutes into the sit and I enter a sort of foggy area.  Concentration is a little more difficult.  Body sensations are still apparent, but it’s a bit harder to focus closely.  There isn’t any strong dark-nighty stuff, except for maybe some tensions and knots in the chest/abdomen.  I can feel, hear and see vibrations, but they are a little inconstant during this phase.  I’m able to stay fairly equanimous through it all, but I do tend to get drowsy.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Helvetica"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 12px"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 12px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;Somewhere between 20 and 45 minutes, there will be a subtle but noticeable shift into equanimity.  Everything becomes very clear and ordinary.  It’s like waves settling on an ocean, or like biking to the top of a hill and then reaching some easy coasting with a nice view, or like sitting down in a comfy chair after finishing all the dishes from a great dinner.  At first my mind is prone to wandering, but I’m able to catch it fairly quickly.  As this state matures, my concentration increases and my mind wanders little.  Steady, rapid vibrations are noticeable as sight, sound, and touch, and these vibrations hum along together.  I am also very wakeful.  I can sit very easily, and if I don’t have anything else to do in my day I’ll extend the sit past an hour.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul style="list-style: disc outside;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Helvetica"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 12px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Helvetica"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 12px"&gt;Although the ñanas are apparent in my descriptions, I have to say that the symptoms are pretty subtle.   It would be hard for me to pick the stuff out If it weren’t for sitting retreats and having mind blowing A&amp;amp;Ps, horrible DNs and everything in between.  Overall my sits right now are kind of homogenous, with equanimity being the prevailing feeling tone.  A Teague from 3 years ago, would probably just think I was in EQ in the first few minutes of the sit, but current Teague knows better, I think.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Helvetica"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 12px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Helvetica"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 12px"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I always regard my own diagnoses with a degree of skepticism.  When I’m in EQ, I’ll wonder if I’m not just in something pre-dark night, but when I try to practice my way forward, I don’t get an A&amp;amp;P event or fall into dissolution, I just get more equanimity. &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Helvetica"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 12px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Helvetica"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 12px"&gt;Any questions, comments, and advice are quite welcome.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As for technique, I&amp;#039;ve sat a bunch of Goenka courses, so body scanning has been my foundation, but I use noting a fair amount as well.  In EQ I sometimes do choiceless awareness too.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Helvetica"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 12px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Helvetica"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 12px"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;-T&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description> <pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2014 12:47:29 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5571895</guid> <dc:creator>Teague</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-22T12:47:29Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Can Stream Entry Knock One Out of Equanimity and Formations?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5570233</link> <description>X X,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I agree that I need to loosen up. Last night I had a sit in which I was turbulent and wound up. I&amp;#039;m looking too hard for &amp;#034;signs&amp;#034; of fruition. Tom Tom advised me to look for the fruitions in an unobsessed way. I&amp;#039;m trying to figure out how that works! &lt;img alt="emoticon" src="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dho-theme/images/emoticons/huh.gif" &gt;</description> <pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2014 18:40:02 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5570233</guid> <dc:creator>_</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-17T18:40:02Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Can Stream Entry Knock One Out of Equanimity and Formations?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5569565</link> <description>I mean, wow! A little &amp;#034;blip&amp;#034; and then a bit of bliss is a &lt;em&gt;fruition&lt;/em&gt;? Really? That sort of incident seems like it could be anything, or nothing at all, so this news is anticlimatic, to say the least. What I experienced a week ago on reboot was being and yet being gone, radically dislocated, no body, no centralized &amp;#034;mind,&amp;#034; no &amp;#034;this side&amp;#034;--way, way, way more dramatic than a little blip out and nice bliss rise! And this was &lt;em&gt;after&lt;/em&gt; the cessation, not before, when reality was kicking back in. No wonder I&amp;#039;ve miss these so-called ensie-weensie fruitions!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I guess I won&amp;#039;t worry about looking for those little things, if that is all they present as. I have the baseline shift for sure, so I guess that is what matters.</description> <pubDate>Sat, 16 Aug 2014 02:04:35 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5569565</guid> <dc:creator>_</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-16T02:04:35Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Can Stream Entry Knock One Out of Equanimity and Formations?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5569560</link> <description>Hey, Richard, thanks. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Everyone, I&amp;#039;m a little confused about something: In this big table of Daniel&amp;#039;s, it looks like &amp;#034;fruition&amp;#034; is the cessation (&amp;#034;Nirvana&amp;#034; in the table). And MCTB decribes in detail the experience of the possible &amp;#034;doors&amp;#034; leading up to the cessation. Okay, well, my experience wasn&amp;#039;t like any of that: The weird experience was &lt;em&gt;after&lt;/em&gt; the cessation, not &lt;em&gt;before&lt;/em&gt; it (ie, &amp;#034;three doors&amp;#034;). It was when reality was starting back up, not when cessation was being approached. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The sequence was (1) realization during formations, (2) cessation, and then (3) bizarre experience of zoom and radical dislocation of center/self, which never fully resolved. If I&amp;#039;m looking for subsequent &amp;#034;fruitions,&amp;#034; then I guess I ought to understand what I&amp;#039;m looking for, huh? So am I looking for the &amp;#034;three doors&amp;#034; experience, followed by cessation, followed by just a little bliss wave?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Maybe the reason that I&amp;#039;m not picking up on subsequent fruitions is because I&amp;#039;ve been looking for that wild startup &lt;em&gt;after&lt;/em&gt; the cessation. By the way, I do not recall any &amp;#034;bliss wave&amp;#034; after the first experience, either. It was just rad, not blissfull.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Momentary little blip-outs and bliss recoveries seem like little things that can and do happen during any pre-path sit. So help me understand how to know.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;static&amp;#x2e;squarespace&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;static&amp;#x2f;5037f52d84ae1e87f694cfda&amp;#x2f;t&amp;#x2f;5055922624acbaa64592c1c3&amp;#x2f;1347785254496&amp;#x2f;"&gt;http://static.squarespace.com/static/5037f52d84ae1e87f694cfda/t/5055922624acbaa64592c1c3/1347785254496/&lt;/a&gt;</description> <pubDate>Sat, 16 Aug 2014 01:26:30 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5569560</guid> <dc:creator>_</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-16T01:26:30Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Can Stream Entry Knock One Out of Equanimity and Formations?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5569555</link> <description>Thanks! I sent the sample of this book to my Kindle. </description> <pubDate>Sat, 16 Aug 2014 00:58:24 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5569555</guid> <dc:creator>_</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-16T00:58:24Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Can Stream Entry Knock One Out of Equanimity and Formations?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5569548</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Jen Pearly:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;li&gt;As of last night&amp;#039;s sit, &lt;u&gt;incredible concentration states&lt;/u&gt;--like nothing I&amp;#039;ve ever experienced. No discursive thoughts arise at all. The clarity is amazing. Normally I find it difficult or impossible to really stabilize these states because I have a tendency to see the 3Cs and am drawn to them. But last night, when I tried to do insight practice, it was as if I was pulled into these jhana states instead, regardless of what I intended. Something is telling me to explore these states right now, but MCTB advises waiting until after mastery of the insight stages per Review. Any thoughts/advice?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In short, I still do not believe that last Friday was near miss--it was just too clearly a cessation and fruition, with a mind shift that followed and so far hasn&amp;#039;t reversed or waned one iota. Maybe I&amp;#039;m a outlier to Daniel&amp;#039;s assertion in MCTB that SE must be followed within one week by another fruition. Anyway, I have another sit today at lunchtime, so the week isn&amp;#039;t quite over yet!&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Jen, I agree, likely SE. The incredible increase in access to jhanas is a tell-tale sign. That&amp;#039;s what happened to me to, big increase in jhana but no noticeable post SE fruitions. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;At this point, you might want to explore &amp;#034;meditation doing you instead of you doing meditation&amp;#034;. Let your mind go where it wants to. Loosen up the reins and let the horse run and enjoy. You might begin to notice how one jhana flows into the other, how the eyes and sense of space change as the jhanas change. It&amp;#039;s interesting. And you don&amp;#039;t need to do anything, just let your mind/body adjust as it wants to.</description> <pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2014 23:36:04 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5569548</guid> <dc:creator>x x</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-15T23:36:04Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Can Stream Entry Knock One Out of Equanimity and Formations?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5569466</link> <description>Welcome home, Jen!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Does the following Adyashanti quote make sense to you?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;em&gt;&amp;#039;Make no mistake about it- enlightenment is a destructive process. It has nothing to do with becoming happier. Enlightenment is the crumbling away of untruth. It&amp;#039;s seeing through the facade of pretense. It&amp;#039;s the complete eradication of everything we imagined to be true&amp;#039;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If so, consider reading his &amp;#034;The End Of Your World&amp;#034; sooner rather than later. It&amp;#039;s useful for orienting yourself to your new baseline, and what you might expect in the days, months, and years ahead of you. </description> <pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2014 19:25:06 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5569466</guid> <dc:creator>Andy R</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-15T19:25:06Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Can Stream Entry Knock One Out of Equanimity and Formations?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5569396</link> <description>To me it sounds like you got it.  People often feel like the brain goes into over-drive because of the lack of aversion.  I would still continue practicing as you did before without goal orientation (other than the goal of being aware of what is) and keep developing other areas of your practice.  If jhanas are easy access then I would continue developing them because they are useful in blocking hindrances.  Some people like to go as far as they can with the jhanas and then let go all efforting and have a fruition.  By accessing all jhanas you can become disenchanted with all of them and gain deeper equanimity. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Keep playing and if you can get another fruition hopefully you can develop the skill to call them up whenever you want to.  Fruitions wean you further and that&amp;#039;s the value of them.  3rd path will be to get rid of desire and ill-will which sounds like a difficult area because you would have to be completely honest about your desires and aversions as you continue on.  Then there&amp;#039;s Daniel&amp;#039;s book and his opinions on emotional perfection models.  Use right effort to guide your choices which will be as important as anything else you do in life because even monks with high attainments make huge blunders.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;integrateddaniel&amp;#x2e;info&amp;#x2f;podcasts-and-videos&amp;#x2f;"&gt;http://integrateddaniel.info/podcasts-and-videos/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Hurricane Ranch talks includes Hokai Sobol&amp;#039;s description of developing concentration then adding a watcher and watch all of that vibrating.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Good luck!</description> <pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2014 15:02:31 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5569396</guid> <dc:creator>Richard Zen</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-15T15:02:31Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Can Stream Entry Knock One Out of Equanimity and Formations?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5569384</link> <description>Hi, X X, thank you for following me through this phase and advising.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Here is what I am noticing:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;ol style="list-style: decimal outside;"&gt;&lt;li&gt;Feeling &amp;#034;different&amp;#034; from the way I felt before the event--this is constant, so far &amp;#034;permanent&amp;#034;; specifically, my former &amp;#034;boundaries&amp;#034; seem diffused and extended into the environment, with none of the former frequent sensations of chest/heart contraction around emotional responses formerly identified with as &amp;#034;myself.&amp;#034; &lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;99% of the time I no longer feel the need to convince others of my views, but when I do feel the need to discuss then the right words flow out of me as if I&amp;#039;m channeling a prepackaged perfected message. &lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;I&amp;#039;m no longer ruminating and worrying continually--and I&amp;#039;m normally a very anxious worrywort. &lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;I completely stopped posting on Facebook, which formerly was an addiction. I have no draw whatsoever to idle chatter.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;I&amp;#039;m very aware of an acute sense of hearing--this is very weird, especially considering that I&amp;#039;m a bit hard of hearing normally. I think that maybe this is just the auditory dimension of Number 1. In any crowd--restaurant, cafe at lunch--I can hear each voice of other people distinctly, such that it seems I&amp;#039;m more located in the surround-sound than I am in my body. This is not subtle.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;At a macro level of cycling, I&amp;#039;m defininitely back in the A&amp;amp;P; I&amp;#039;m exuberant in that almost hypomanic way that A&amp;amp;P was last year, with intense faith in the dharma, need for very little sleep (3 or 4 hours!), feeling like I can sit all night, and seeing/hearing/feeling fine fast vibration with a few lights. My A&amp;amp;P last year was characterized in part by frequent lucid dreaming that stopped after the A&amp;amp;P Event. Last night--lucid dreaming involving flying through space. Also trembling and twitching during sits.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;As of last night&amp;#039;s sit, &lt;u&gt;incredible concentration states&lt;/u&gt;--like nothing I&amp;#039;ve ever experienced. No discursive thoughts arise at all. The clarity is amazing. Normally I find it difficult or impossible to really stabilize these states because I have a tendency to see the 3Cs and am drawn to them. But last night, when I tried to do insight practice, it was as if I was pulled into these jhana states instead, regardless of what I intended. Something is telling me to explore these states right now, but MCTB advises waiting until after mastery of the insight stages per Review. Any thoughts/advice?&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ol&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In short, I still do not believe that last Friday was near miss--it was just too clearly a cessation and fruition, with a mind shift that followed and so far hasn&amp;#039;t reversed or waned one iota. Maybe I&amp;#039;m a outlier to Daniel&amp;#039;s assertion in MCTB that SE must be followed within one week by another fruition. Anyway, I have another sit today at lunchtime, so the week isn&amp;#039;t quite over yet!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;[EDITED for a few typos and to add that lucid dreaming has returned after a year--A&amp;amp;P.]&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;[EDITED again to add in the trembling during meditation--just read on one of Daniel&amp;#039;s tables that this is A&amp;amp;P]</description> <pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2014 14:35:21 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5569384</guid> <dc:creator>_</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-15T14:35:21Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Can Stream Entry Knock One Out of Equanimity and Formations?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5569316</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Jen Pearly:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;Okay, well, still no sign yet of another fruition.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It&amp;#039;s possible that you had a near miss. These can really seem like SE, but there isn&amp;#039;t the sense of cycling, the instant access to A&amp;amp;P, the clearer and easier jhanas. One of those things should be more noticeable, but not necessarily all of them. My &amp;#034;review&amp;#034; period post stream entry didn&amp;#039;t have clear fruitions as a part of the cycling. What stood out for me was the super easy access to A&amp;amp;P like vibrations and lights and then snapshots of the dukka nanas which flew by almost in the background, covered by a thick third jhana cool bliss. Fruition was barely noticible, what was more noticeable was being back in the A&amp;amp;P. &lt;br /&gt;At a certain point, I felt like a beginner again (what had I achieved? wasn&amp;#039;t this the same as before? maybe there is more access to pleasurable sensations and concentration states, but so what?). That was the beginning of second path. Second path is just doing it again... but it can be confusing because jhanas start arising more easily, which makes perception weird, which makes mapping weird... unless you are one of the folks that has very clear jhanas, in which case those can be use as a centerpiece of practice.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;No worries Jen, you have a good practice, keep enjoying, keep going.</description> <pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2014 11:16:59 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5569316</guid> <dc:creator>x x</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-15T11:16:59Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Can Stream Entry Knock One Out of Equanimity and Formations?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5568878</link> <description>Okay, well, still no sign yet of another fruition. I&amp;#039;ve been tired in the evening so doing short sits, but sleeping little (kind of wired) and seeing flashing images in my minds eye when I try to sleep, which is why I&amp;#039;m still up. I do see fine vibrations when I sit and just a few sparkles during here and there (not nearly as dramatic as last year&amp;#039;s A&amp;amp;P), followed by mild nausea, oddly enough. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The really standout thing in the past few sits, though, has been twitching and trembling--also a bit of swaying, but I had that swaying thing first emerge in low EQ, too. Tonight my left elbow and upper arm muscles twitched involuntarily (fasiculations) pretty much the whole sit, which was very distracting. It also feels like my eyelids are not so much twitching as just prone to fluttering. Really weird. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Return of high sex drive and heady exuberance and excitement too high to sleep suggests to me that I am generally hanging out in A&amp;amp;P currently. The nausea thing is like Disgust. The rest, if there, is vague.</description> <pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2014 08:24:42 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5568878</guid> <dc:creator>_</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-14T08:24:42Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Can Stream Entry Knock One Out of Equanimity and Formations?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5568693</link> <description>So a couple of times I&amp;#039;ve had momentary feelings of spinning and falling out a split second, but there was no discernible bliss wave or anything dramatic like the event from Friday. I&amp;#039;ll keep looking. I need a longer sit, I think--so I need to stop spending all night on the DhO!</description> <pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2014 00:10:42 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5568693</guid> <dc:creator>_</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-14T00:10:42Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Can Stream Entry Knock One Out of Equanimity and Formations?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5568690</link> <description>Yes, last night again I did too short of a sit, but I did have the vibrations, a few sparkles, and then nausea and fear. So maybe this is a bit of cycling. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;That is a really helpful way of describing the jhanas! I will have to remember that.</description> <pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2014 00:07:58 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5568690</guid> <dc:creator>_</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-14T00:07:58Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Can Stream Entry Knock One Out of Equanimity and Formations?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5568684</link> <description>Good--you can do it! Or something can if you just stay with it. I read what seemed like contradictory advice: to make strong resolutions, and to let whatever happens happen without obsessing. I did both in the end. I made the resolution the night before, a strong welling up of verbalized intent and faith, but after that, in meditation itself, I relaxed and didn&amp;#039;t strain toward SE--in fact, it seems that it won&amp;#039;t occur unless you are really geniunely focused on the formations/equanimity and not on anticipating SE. Or--that&amp;#039;s how it seemed to be for me, anyway. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;May you reach SE soon!</description> <pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2014 00:02:21 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5568684</guid> <dc:creator>_</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-14T00:02:21Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Can Stream Entry Knock One Out of Equanimity and Formations?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5568677</link> <description>I too have been feeling like an imposter--particularly since I really put in very little total time on the cushion. I think I just have leaky boundaries, openness to alterned states and weird happenings, for whatever reason. But I also feel that my Dark Nights were particularly horrific. I guess there is no correlation between horror of DN and speed to SE, though. </description> <pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2014 23:57:25 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5568677</guid> <dc:creator>_</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-13T23:57:25Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Can Stream Entry Knock One Out of Equanimity and Formations?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5568670</link> <description>Thanks--will do. I think it was your idea to make a formal resolution to meet SE--which I read on someone else&amp;#039;s thread and then tried. Wow, that worked quickly! I guess I need to resolve more often!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Cheers,&lt;br /&gt;Jenny</description> <pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2014 23:53:03 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5568670</guid> <dc:creator>_</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-13T23:53:03Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Can Stream Entry Knock One Out of Equanimity and Formations?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5568051</link> <description>Congats! (claps with one hand)&lt;br /&gt;Sounds pretty textbook....you did read the textbook though...&lt;br /&gt;May I reccomend making a new strong resolution to move thru the Nanas and get to cessasion again....They are amazingly fun for quite a while...until the newness fades.&lt;br /&gt;This is something I recommend doing....Panoramic Awareness; unfocused awareness of the entire visual field...add a little awe feeling to it. I wish I had practiced the Panoramic Awareness more because when it &lt;br /&gt;faded I really missed it a bunch. At second path it came back and I &lt;br /&gt;could with sustained effort reside in it. At third path it is your &lt;br /&gt;baseline state until you add thinking layers to it which obscures it, &lt;br /&gt;until you let go of thinking again. &lt;br /&gt;You are in the honeymoon phase now and it lasts for most people about month or so and then the energetic intensity wears off and you get so used to the new state that everything calms down to your new baseline &amp;#034;normal&amp;#034;. Enjoy the intensity now. &lt;br /&gt;Play around while the intensity lasts and maybe explore the jhanas a bit....resolutions/intentions have much power to them right now too.&lt;br /&gt;Have fun!&lt;br /&gt;~D</description> <pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2014 16:28:20 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5568051</guid> <dc:creator>Dream Walker</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-13T16:28:20Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Can Stream Entry Knock One Out of Equanimity and Formations?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5567969</link> <description>Congradulations! Being around equanimity myself, hearing your story is very encouraging!</description> <pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2014 15:10:54 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5567969</guid> <dc:creator>Jason Snyder</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-13T15:10:54Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Can Stream Entry Knock One Out of Equanimity and Formations?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5567950</link> <description>Also look for A&amp;amp;P. Sometimes it is more noticable than the fruition/cessation. You might see flashes of lights or get energetic tingles.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Also see if you have better access to the jhanas. Intend to cultivate manic pleasure, then sunbathing tranquility, then cool bliss, then spaciousness. The cool bliss sensations may come easiest, since cycling takes you back to the A&amp;amp;P --- which coorrelates to the third jhana.</description> <pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2014 11:20:46 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5567950</guid> <dc:creator>x x</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-13T11:20:46Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Can Stream Entry Knock One Out of Equanimity and Formations?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5567862</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;If this was not SE, it was a stunningly convincing imitation--especially given that my &amp;#034;progress&amp;#034; through the stages to that point was &amp;#034;by the book&amp;#034; and I have zero doubt that I was in High EQ.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It looks like you&amp;#039;ve probably gotten stream-entry. See if you can call up a fruition when you&amp;#039;re meditating.  If you can&amp;#039;t call one up, then watch out for ones that might happen spontaneously  Don&amp;#039;t get too obsessed about this if you can&amp;#039;t get one or one doesn&amp;#039;t come up.  See if you can call them up in a relaxed un-obsessed way.     </description> <pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2014 06:11:41 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5567862</guid> <dc:creator>Tom Tom</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-13T06:11:41Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Can Stream Entry Knock One Out of Equanimity and Formations?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5567776</link> <description>&lt;strong&gt;Brief Background&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Okay, quick version of history is as follows: I&amp;#039;ve been meditating for 3 years, never been on retreat, and rarely sit more than 30 minutes a day. I experienced A&amp;amp;P phenomena during the second or third time I ever sat. I do not practice &amp;#034;noting,&amp;#034; but rather just &amp;#034;noticing,&amp;#034; without labeling, as labeling has always been too slow. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;From April through July 2013 I was in a clear A&amp;amp;P phase, with lucid dreaming many nights, culminating in the A&amp;amp;P Event during one of these dreams, in which I meditated. I had all the zealot post-A&amp;amp;P clarity that is classic, and from that point on intense faith in my eventual awakening. Exactly a week later, and almost a year to the day before this possible SE event I&amp;#039;ll describe, I entered DN and cycled around in that twice at the macro level until the second week of June 2014, when it broke and low EQ began. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;From second the week in June, I steadily climbed to High EQ, all the while seeing/hearing/feeling (but mainly seeing) formations, although without being able to clearly see the beginnings and endings . . . until this past Friday. I saw formations at every single sit for 2 months and experienced all the other characteristics of EQ, but assumed that I would fall back down the through the earlier stages again because, honestly, I&amp;#039;ve put very little total time into my formal practice (yeah, I&amp;#039;m a lazy Buddhist).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;My longer and weirder history is here, in case you are mobidly curious:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;[url=]http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/4542709?_19_redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dharmaoverground.org%2Fweb%2Fguest%2Fdiscussion%2F-%2Fmessage_boards%2Fsearch%3F_19_keywords%3Dlet%2Bme%2Boff%2Bthis%2Bride%26_19_searchCategoryId%3D0%26_19_breadcrumbsCategoryId%3D0%26_19_redirect%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.dharmaoverground.org%252Fweb%252Fguest%252Fdiscussion%252F-%252Fmessage_boards%252Fmessage-boards-home%26_19_formDate%3D1407898323199&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;(How do I make links shorter?)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Night Before Event: My Sit and My One and Only Resolution to Meet Stream Entry&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thursday night, the night before the event I&amp;#039;ll try to describe, I logged my sit with just the following words to show the sequence of what I noticed:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;1.      Fast vibrations (seeing, feeling)&lt;br /&gt;2.      Intense multilayered hearing of &amp;#034;silence&amp;#034; as particles&lt;br /&gt;3.      Flows in the carpet arise, flows in the walls, flows wherever I look (formations)&lt;br /&gt;4.      Trying to locate sense of self watching, failing&lt;br /&gt;5.      Several feelings of rapid, momentary dislocation&lt;br /&gt;6.      Intimacy with the flowing arises&lt;br /&gt;7.      Fear arises&lt;br /&gt;8.      Remembering to investigate fear&lt;br /&gt;9.      Fear alternates with strange rapture&lt;br /&gt;10.    Thought arises that I want and expect stream entry but am afraid of cessation&lt;br /&gt;11.    Mild nausea arises (physical)&lt;br /&gt;12.    Expansive feeling of love arises, nausea vanishes&lt;br /&gt;13.    Surprise, wonder blooms&lt;br /&gt;14.    Resolve formally to reach stream entry as soon as possible [this was the first and only time I&amp;#039;ve resolved this.]&lt;br /&gt;15.    Bell and stop&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Friday, August 8, at a Lunchtime Group Sit at Work (30 Minutes)&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The event happened unexpectedly, right after the moment that an intensely clear realization arose about the now slowed-down, almost rhythmic formations I was watching arise and pass away clearly, from beginning to gone. What I call formations are like 3D &amp;#034;blooms.&amp;#034; And their passing away is like a concave, inverted bloom that is blank at center--even black, to tell the truth. They are big and constantly fluxing and flowing. Normally they are moving so constantly that I cannot catch the instant of arising or the instant of &amp;#034;gone.&amp;#034; Moreover, one tend to overlap another, so this fact makes seeing specific beginnings and endings hard (impossible till this day).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The realization was pre-verbal, but the way I would put it now is that&lt;em&gt; the &amp;#034;gone&amp;#034; I could suddenly watch is actually still a kind of arising, and the reason that it is so is that there is, or was, the frame of reference that was the &amp;#034;real&amp;#034; arising. &lt;/em&gt;As far as I can tell, this crystal clear realization ushered me into a kind of collapse of duality.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As soon as I realized that &amp;#034;gone&amp;#034; wasn&amp;#039;t actually &lt;em&gt;GONE&lt;/em&gt; gone, absolute discontinuity! So I remember up to that moment, and then I remember back to what it was like when reality was coming back online. And that was really the most earth-shattering moment--the rebooting of the world: During those few moments, &amp;#034;I&amp;#034; was dislocated into everything around me, with nothing on &amp;#034;my&amp;#034; side, no center, no sense of within-body or location-grounding. &amp;#034;I&amp;#034; was gone!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I knew something transformative was happening, or had happend. I remembered to try to see clearly.There was this hard-to-describe quality that was visual, I think (but I&amp;#039;m not absolutely sure I was physically seeing), and the closest I can come to describing it is to point to what happens in planetarium shows or movies when they are trying to convey warp speed through the stars, and the stars turn into whiteness bleared out into bright white lines. The difference in this case was that there was no contrasting darkness or outer space background, so I&amp;#039;m not even positive it was visual apprehension of white lines at all. If so, my sense was of white-on-white/clear. I guess sometimes experiences are so unusual that all we can do is grab onto metaphors for them. At any rate, there was a quality of &lt;em&gt;ZOOM! &lt;/em&gt;and radical dislocation, or diffusion, of center and ground--no &amp;#034;this&amp;#034; side. I now understand, &amp;#034;In the seeing, only the seen. . . .&amp;#034;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Immediately, and to my confusion, the meditation bell rang. And the oddest thing then was that I was almost paralyzed. I couldn&amp;#039;t stop meditating, even when I finally rose, stunned, and we walked upstairs to the cafe and ate! &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The &amp;#034;door&amp;#034; was emptiness, with impermance secondary. I&amp;#039;m not sure why I think this; maybe it was the other way around.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Afterglow&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thereafter, I felt different--and not subtlely different, but &lt;em&gt;very different&lt;/em&gt;. Specifically, I feel noticeably less concentrated/localized within the boundaries of my body and immediate reach. I flow out further into the far off. Saturday I experienced cycling sensations of being diffused into all that surrounds me, feeling intense gratitude and weepy love for everyone (and telling them), and feeling a little bit scared/queasy at the sheer intensity of whatever has happened. At the restaurant I ate in Saturday, I could distinctly hear all the voices and conversations at once, individually, hearing each so acutely that &amp;#034;I&amp;#034; was there in the sound, not where I usually am, in me. It is hard to describe, but something is very, very different now.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I had a migraine headache all Saturday and most of Sunday. I sat only about 25 minutes Sunday night and again Monday night--but was itching, restless, aching, and unable to see even vibrations that I always do, both times. So I started to feel doubt. I guess I assumed one stayed in EQ for a bit after SE. Whatever the event was, after 2 days of afterglow, it kicked me out of EQ. However, the diffused sense of &amp;#034;me&amp;#034; remains. If this was not SE, it was a stunningly convincing imitation--especially given that my &amp;#034;progress&amp;#034; through the stages to that point was &amp;#034;by the book&amp;#034; and I have zero doubt that I was in High EQ.</description> <pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2014 03:42:53 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5567776</guid> <dc:creator>_</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-13T03:42:53Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Can Stream Entry Knock One Out of Equanimity and Formations?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5567725</link> <description>I &lt;em&gt;did&lt;/em&gt; have three of those and then an absolute discontinuity, and then reality &amp;#034;rebooted.&amp;#034; And the rebooting was very interesting, to say the least.</description> <pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2014 02:20:45 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5567725</guid> <dc:creator>_</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-13T02:20:45Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Can Stream Entry Knock One Out of Equanimity and Formations?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5567696</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;and then after SE afterglow to find oneself knocked completely out of Equanimity and off of the ability to sense formations? Can a dramatic cessation event actually usher in a falling back down the stages instead of SE?&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In short, no.  If you had attained path there should have been three little blips (or something resembling three blips) and then a cessation event (a bigger blip) followed by the A&amp;amp;P which then automatically cycles through the dark night and back up into equanimity (with formations) and then it starts over again.  It&amp;#039;s true that it&amp;#039;s possible for someone to miss all 4 blips.   &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I suppose starting over at the A&amp;amp;P could be mistaken for &amp;#034;falling back down,&amp;#034; but if you find this experience being more like re-observation then you didn&amp;#039;t hit stream-entry and instead fell back to re-observation which isn&amp;#039;t really a big deal.  Just meditate to go back into equanimity and try again.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The inability to meditate could be symptoms of being back in the dark night (re-observation).</description> <pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2014 01:33:10 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5567696</guid> <dc:creator>Tom Tom</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-13T01:33:10Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Can Stream Entry Knock One Out of Equanimity and Formations?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5567633</link> <description>Hey Jen, I am not a stream-enterer so I unfortunately can&amp;#039;t speak from personal experience (yet!), but I do have some points of interest.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;First there is the possibility that you fell back into Re-Obs, but the &amp;#034;contracted sense of self&amp;#034; you describe is certainly interesting, and indicates that something else may be going on.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Stream entry isn&amp;#039;t always light and bunnies. For some it is quite unsettling or confusing, at least at first. I&amp;#039;ve read numerous threads about &amp;#034;post-path headaches&amp;#034; that are apparently common. It is quite possible that the shockwaves of stream-entry are just giving you a difficult time. Fruitions are not always obvious, especially after first path. For some they don&amp;#039;t become obvious until later paths (I hear third path can be a doozy). &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Something you might try-- &amp;#034;just sitting&amp;#034; and seeing what the mind does by itself.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Also, you already know this, but believing one has attained a path, when one in fact hasn&amp;#039;t, can really screw up your practice. Keep meditating as usual to be on the safe side.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;On a different note, could you shoot me a PM or email?  I have a question I would like to ask you. It pertains to my practice and I think you may have some insight (ha ha). My email is ayearhasgone@gmail.com. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Mark your calender for a year and a day so we can plan a celebration. &lt;img alt="emoticon" src="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dho-theme/images/emoticons/happy.gif" &gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Eric</description> <pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2014 22:30:56 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5567633</guid> <dc:creator>Eric M W</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-12T22:30:56Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Can Stream Entry Knock One Out of Equanimity and Formations?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5567626</link> <description>Daniel&amp;#039;s nana and jhana &lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;vimeo&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;69475208"&gt;mind map walkthrough&lt;/a&gt; is pretty much essential viewing. Something that really caught me off guard / I had completely misunderstood was the trip back to mind &amp;amp; body after review, which had me feeling like something of a total impostor. Four days seems like a rather short time to spend in review, but this is just my own experience -- I&amp;#039;m sure others can weigh in. Keep in mind that an inability to sense cycling doesn&amp;#039;t mean it&amp;#039;s not happening anyway.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;That video also addresses the re-observation &amp;lt;--&amp;gt; EQ chin-ups, including a funky little detour / near miss that can trigger from the EQ mini dark night, punting the practitioner back to desire for deliverance. Not saying this is necessarily the case, just some food for thought.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If anything kept me from enjoying SE, it was worrying over whether or not I had actually landed SE. Which is silly, and more than a little counter-productive. In short: don&amp;#039;t worry, be equanimous.</description> <pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2014 22:05:23 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5567626</guid> <dc:creator>John M.</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-12T22:05:23Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Can Stream Entry Knock One Out of Equanimity and Formations?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5567623</link> <description>This is an apt expression of the shift. So maybe it is so. Time will tell.</description> <pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2014 21:34:56 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5567623</guid> <dc:creator>_</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-12T21:34:56Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Can Stream Entry Knock One Out of Equanimity and Formations?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5567620</link> <description>&lt;strong&gt;Yes!&lt;/strong&gt; I totally have that loss of contracted &amp;#034;self&amp;#034; and center--and it is not subtle! It started right after the event. I feel very, very different.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It is just weird that I&amp;#039;m not experiencing further fruitions or noticing cycling. Maybe it is too soon. Maybe I&amp;#039;m just not good at noticing the cycling. And maybe I&amp;#039;ve not had another full cycling and  fruition because I have not had a chance to sit for longer than 25 minutes since Friday.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I will detail what happened Friday when I am home from the office.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Jenny</description> <pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2014 21:33:34 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5567620</guid> <dc:creator>_</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-12T21:33:34Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Can Stream Entry Knock One Out of Equanimity and Formations?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5567607</link> <description>Sensations that implied self are still intact, but the weight/gravity/contraction around them should greatly loosen. Like seeing a reflection on the water and realizing that it has no substance/has no actual matter. </description> <pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2014 20:27:18 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5567607</guid> <dc:creator>Mind over easy</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-12T20:27:18Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Can Stream Entry Knock One Out of Equanimity and Formations?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5567601</link> <description>Without really knowing anything about the suspected SE event, maybe you dropped back into re-ob? It is pretty crummy to drop from EQ down to re-ob, but they are right next to each other. My last retreat was mostly tottering from EQ to re-ob daily. It feels like being above the clouds with a vast and panoramic awareness, then dipping below them and finding yourself beneath a storm of neurotic obsessive thoughts, reactivity, itching, pains, and chaotic sensations to me. Stream entry ought to do some sort of damage to your sense of center point though- possibly physically, with a feeling of space where a sense of observer was contracted, but most definitely with a perceptible change in your relationship to experience, like sensations are no longer being fed through a vantage point, like observation is occuring without some undefined point which observations happen to. That&amp;#039;s my take on it, at least.</description> <pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2014 20:19:56 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5567601</guid> <dc:creator>Mind over easy</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-12T20:19:56Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>Can Stream Entry Knock One Out of Equanimity and Formations?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5567583</link> <description>Hi, all. Last Friday, August 8, during a lunchtime group sit, something staggering happened that may have been stream entry. I don&amp;#039;t have time at the moment to detail what happened, but I will elsewhere later, when I have more time, perhaps tonight.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I know people can easily be fooled by imposter states and stages, so I&amp;#039;m following Daniel&amp;#039;s advice to let what happened settle and just continue to practice with curiosity and wait to see what happens. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;However, here is my question: &lt;/strong&gt;Is it possible to&lt;strong&gt; &lt;/strong&gt;have stream entry fruition after 2 months of Equanimity and experiencing formations--and then after SE afterglow to find oneself knocked completely out of Equanimity and off of the ability to sense formations? Can a dramatic cessation event actually usher in a falling back down the stages instead of SE?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;After 2 days of really impressive afterglow despite my having a migraine for almost the whole 2 days, my sits are now shit. I can&amp;#039;t sense vibrations or any cycling at all, certanly not formations. I now don&amp;#039;t even have the EQ I enjoyed for 2 months straight. I&amp;#039;ve done only 2 sits since that Friday event, because of migraine, but those two sits were like I was a beginner at mediation--lots of obtrusive discursive thought, itching, aching, restlessness, and the like!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Any idea what could be going on and whether the sudden knock off EQ is a sign for or against SE?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I know I&amp;#039;m being impatient and need to keep practicing, regardless, but I&amp;#039;d still like to know what is possibly going on with the sudden inability to meditate after stunning High EQ and an SE-type cessation event.. Again, I&amp;#039;ll post the whole event in diagnostic clinic when I have time.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Love and thanks,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Jenny</description> <pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2014 19:38:12 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5567583</guid> <dc:creator>_</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-12T19:38:12Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Formations - clarification / confirmation / question</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5565860</link> <description>Hi, all. I&amp;#039;ve been in EQ for weeks. Today something extraordinary happened, and this description is very like it. My apprehension of formations is usually visual, but until today I wasn&amp;#039;t seeing the beginnings and endings clearly. Today they became crystal clear, very regular, much more slowed down than usual, and I effortlessly stayed with each arising and each passing away. These are visual for me--though it can occur in the dimension of sound and even tactile feeling, too. In a kind of pre-verbal way, today I saw the arisings almost as blooms. And then I watched the passings-away, and the passings-away seemed like black, inverted blooms. So I had the sense that &lt;em&gt;the &amp;#034;gone!&amp;#034; was also, still, a kind of arising&lt;/em&gt;, and I had the sense that &lt;em&gt;this was so precisely because of the contextual frame that was the &amp;#034;real&amp;#034; arising, now known to be &amp;#034;gone&lt;/em&gt;.&amp;#034; So, several more of these arisings and passings and then--what the hell was that? I don&amp;#039;t know if I can even find words. But &amp;#034;I&amp;#034; was just gone as sense recognition returned from . . . where? And that &amp;#034;nothing in the seeing but the seen&amp;#034; now makes perfect sense!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Now, this said, I don&amp;#039;t recall a &amp;#034;bliss wave.&amp;#034; But something was very strange after all this. I was in a group setting, and right when sensory experience was kicking back in, the mediation bell rang, and I had the strangest feeling of not being able to come out of meditation. I even walked up to the cafe with my meditation friends, totally in a diffuse meditative way. . . . This strangeness lasted about 10 minutes, and then I felt normal.</description> <pubDate>Sat, 09 Aug 2014 07:38:09 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5565860</guid> <dc:creator>_</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-09T07:38:09Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: High EG -- Focus and intensity question</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5562375</link> <description>&lt;strong&gt;X X:&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Arial"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;There&amp;#039;s no need to look for anything special, just keep sensing how we create a sense of &amp;#034;position&amp;#034; in every moment. We create this by momentarily and very subtly identifying with something. We &amp;#034;are&amp;#034; our thoughts, our sense of calm, the sense of space in which objects occur, as a sense of knowing, or even just a body sensation. We&amp;#039;re we are &amp;#034;located&amp;#034; or &amp;#034;identified&amp;#034; or &amp;#034;posititoned&amp;#034; keeps changing. No need to try and follow it or go somewhere to look for it. It&amp;#039;s always there as a kind of sense of self/center/subject. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Arial"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;Aha! These words resonate! This is it--yes, it keeps shifting, like continually reshuffling strategy of creating this self! I have sensed this but didn&amp;#039;t know it until these words for it! How strange!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;X X:&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Arial"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;Spend some time getting use to that. Maybe 15 or 20 minutes or so. Then spend about 5 or 10 minutes gently wondering, how can this be seen if &amp;#034;I&amp;#034; am the self/center/subject? . . . &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Arial"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;This is higher-energy stuff than plain old follow the breath meditation or noting, so it&amp;#039;s better to have several short sits than one long sit. &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Arial"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;Brilliant! Also--you are absolutely right about short sits. I actually intinctively have shortened them and found them more productive that way. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thank you for your helpful words--this really, really clicks! &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Jenny</description> <pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2014 04:43:55 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5562375</guid> <dc:creator>_</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-07-30T04:43:55Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: High EG -- Focus and intensity question</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5562360</link> <description>You got it Jen. Over there and self are sort of mutually created. To have an over there, it seems like we need an over here observing it. But, curiously, how we have an over here keeps changing. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There&amp;#039;s no need to look for anything special, just keep sensing how we create a sense of &amp;#034;position&amp;#034; in every moment. We create this by momentarily and very subtly identifying with something. We &amp;#034;are&amp;#034; our thoughts, our sense of calm, the sense of space in which objects occur, as a sense of knowing, or even just a body sensation. We&amp;#039;re we are &amp;#034;located&amp;#034; or &amp;#034;identified&amp;#034; or &amp;#034;posititoned&amp;#034; keeps changing. No need to try and follow it or go somewhere to look for it. It&amp;#039;s always there as a kind of sense of self/center/subject. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Spend some time getting use to that. Maybe 15 or 20 minutes or so. Then spend about 5 or 10 minutes gently wondering, how can this be seen if &amp;#034;I&amp;#034; am the self/center/subject? &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This is higher-energy stuff than plain old follow the breath meditation or noting, so it&amp;#039;s better to have several short sits than one long sit. It&amp;#039;s like letting an iron get hot and then hitting it for a few minutes. Don&amp;#039;t leave it too long in the fire. Don&amp;#039;t hit it too long either. Just do the experiment a few times a day. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt; </description> <pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2014 02:30:48 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5562360</guid> <dc:creator>x x</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-07-30T02:30:48Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: High EG -- Focus and intensity question</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5562357</link> <description>X X:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Arial"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;Your meditation will take you where you need to go, to what you need to experience. If you are spending time in earlier stages, there is a reason for that. Those are the stages you need to become intimate with. You can&amp;#039;t force progress. The stage of EQ requires a foundation of an EQ-like acceptance of all those earlier stages. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Arial"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;Second week in June I finally pulled out of a DN/depression so horrific that I was not able to practice during the months that it reigned, except for 30-minute sits on Fridays with my meditation group at work. I wouldn&amp;#039;t say at all that I arrived at any acceptance of what I went through. It was quite intolerable. I went on antidepressants, in fact, for the first time in 15 years. So during low EQ I really expected, almost, to fall back pretty rapidly. Instead I seemed to go up to middle-to-high EQ. Maybe my lack of expectation that I could stay in EQ helped me stay this long? Who knows.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Last night I stayed up late reading as many threads as I could find here giving advice about EQ stage. Besides the paradoxes you speak of, I realized from reading that, oddly, I&amp;#039;ve been avoiding looking at what I&amp;#039;m most supposed to look at during this stage: what I think of as myself, thought, peace, ease, resistence, and even death--all these broader abstract &amp;#034;objects.&amp;#034; When I meditate now, it is pretty strange in retrospect, though it feels ordinary while ongoing. I don&amp;#039;t know at all, or don&amp;#039;t remember, what I should be attending to, often. I am noticing what I think are formations. Even though what I see/sense is really rather dramatic, I nonetheless feel almost bored after sitting with them night after night. I&amp;#039;m not noticing bliss. It is more just an emotionless watching. I have tried a few times to find &amp;#034;myself,&amp;#034; but as soon as I try, it feels like a strangely exhausting struggle and I go right back to focussing out or over there. Even though I&amp;#039;ve not been successful at turning on myself as an object, as soon as I turn back to focussing &amp;#034;over there&amp;#034; I sense a self/center/subject! That in itself is pretty interesting, now that I articulate it here.</description> <pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2014 01:49:38 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5562357</guid> <dc:creator>_</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-07-30T01:49:38Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Stagnating in EQ?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5562340</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Daniel M. Ingram:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;as a dissenting opinion&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;physical pain during sits that leads to easier sits with buzzy engetic stuff and a gunning for stream entry vibe with a sense that you are now stagnating all makes me think Three Characteristics to A&amp;amp;P to Dark Night something, not Equanimity&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;real equanimity has a very different feel, is wider, concerned with core truths, is generally not buzzy or vibratory, is broad, cool, easy, perhaps not even noticeable as it may be such a non-dramatic thing&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Still, there is a period of predomninant vibration late into equanimity, just to had to the confusion. This confusion of diagnostic between pre-A&amp;amp;P and the desire for deliverance to equanimity little cycle is something we desperatly need to sort out on this forum. It seems that 1 post out of 3 is &amp;#034;Been in equanimity for a while, await Enlightenement&amp;#034;. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;By the way, the world still wait for your video on equanimity pitfalls. </description> <pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2014 23:52:17 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5562340</guid> <dc:creator>Simon T.</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-07-29T23:52:17Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: High EG -- Focus and intensity question</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5562172</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;tom moylan:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt; the solution for me is a &amp;#034;calming&amp;#034; practice.  this entails noticing the energetic sensations and deliberately broadening my scope of attention to the entire physical spectrum while thinkig &amp;#034;calm&amp;#034; and directing my attention to the more sublte sensations.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;i have no idea whether this will be helpful to you but its has had good effects for me in weaning me away from being a bliss junkie.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;High EQ advice is really paradoxical, most advice seems like a contradiction... It&amp;#039;s because fruition isn&amp;#039;t caused by anything, so really there is nothing you can &amp;#034;do&amp;#034;. And remember the EQ state has to happen on it&amp;#039;s own during a sit, you can&amp;#039;t jump to it, even though you may have been &amp;#034;there&amp;#034; in previous sits. Your meditation will take you where you need to go, to what you need to experience. If you are spending time in earlier stages, there is a reason for that. Those are the stages you need to become intimate with. You can&amp;#039;t force progress. The stage of EQ requires a foundation of an EQ-like acceptance of all those earlier stages. Even the dark night nanas can be experienced fully, yet with EQ. Fear is scary but also slightly thrilling despite being scary, for example. Misery is sad and awful but also kinda heartfelt despite being miserable. Etc.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;But here&amp;#039;s advice anyway, for what it is worth:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It&amp;#039;s good not to pursue bliss, although it helps to have spent enough time drenched in it that bliss so it is understood, appreciated, but also seen as not &amp;#034;it&amp;#034; yet not a problem either. For people who tend to be adverse, the best advice is to really drench yourself in the bliss rather than being puritanical about it. You don&amp;#039;t get any bonus points from denying naturally arising bliss. Plus, bliss sorta works behind the scenes to soften the kind of petty ambitions and control mechanisms that are still running. It would be ideal, but not necessary, to be able to get into a fairly calm, mildly blissful state where you don&amp;#039;t care what will happen, yet you are very interested and intimate with the actual body sensations and mindstream that are appearing. Just letting the groovy field of experience do it&amp;#039;s thing, wonderous all by itself. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In High EQ it&amp;#039;s sometimes good to spend sometime looking at the mindstream -- thoughts coming and going, even noticing how there are proto-thinking-urges that are sort of subtle incomplete thoughts and assessments of your experience that are very subtle and very elusive. This is a weird no-man&amp;#039;s land state that is hard to describe, but it is very interesting. You can &amp;#034;see&amp;#034; thoughts before they become complete thoughts. You can &amp;#034;feel&amp;#034; sensations before they become a discrete, definable sensation.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It&amp;#039;s especially interesting to get so close to all these half-formed thoughts and barely registering sensations, so subtle, so difficult to pin down, kinda timeless, kinda positionless, even seeing little piece of experience that have the flavor of &amp;#034;my body&amp;#034; &amp;#034;my mind&amp;#034; but it&amp;#039;s more like looking in the mirror and seeing it &amp;#034;over there&amp;#034;.... and you have to wonder, what is noticing all of this?</description> <pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2014 14:59:23 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5562172</guid> <dc:creator>x x</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-07-29T14:59:23Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: High EG -- Focus and intensity question</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5562097</link> <description>wow...tom is also where tom was ;-)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;hi jen,  for me, my practice has moved in the direction of noticing the energetic phenomena, especially the pleasant ones, as being an effect of &amp;#034;clinging&amp;#034;.  ie: i like the way it feels.  the solution for me is a &amp;#034;calming&amp;#034; practice.  this entails noticing the energetic sensations and deliberately broadening my scope of attention to the entire physical spectrum while thinkig &amp;#034;calm&amp;#034; and directing my attention to the more sublte sensations.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;i have no idea whether this will be helpful to you but its has had good effects for me in weaning me away from being a bliss junkie.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;bon chance&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;tom</description> <pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2014 10:19:40 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5562097</guid> <dc:creator>tom moylan</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-07-29T10:19:40Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Stagnating in EQ?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5561982</link> <description>Daniel,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In MCTB, the Eqanimity chapter, right at the end, barely murmurs something about getting lost in a reverie and then, bam, conformity of knowledge. On this thread and elsewhere your (and Tommy&amp;#039;s and Nick&amp;#039;s) more detailed explanations are so helpful--do consider expanding on EQ in MCTB2 this way. I now have a much, much better notion of how I need to adjust the way I&amp;#039;m practicing now that I&amp;#039;m in EQ. Thank you!</description> <pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2014 05:48:14 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5561982</guid> <dc:creator>_</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-07-29T05:48:14Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: High EG -- Focus and intensity question</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5561930</link> <description>I&amp;#039;m where Tom was. Very helpful hints on this thread. Thank you!</description> <pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2014 05:00:24 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5561930</guid> <dc:creator>_</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-07-29T05:00:24Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: EQ &gt; ReOb &gt; EQ &gt; ReOb &gt; EQ... Forever?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5558466</link> <description>Thank you, Jehanne. That was intriguing. &lt;img alt="emoticon" src="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dho-theme/images/emoticons/happy.gif" &gt;</description> <pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2014 04:17:38 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5558466</guid> <dc:creator>_</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-07-19T04:17:38Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: EQ &gt; ReOb &gt; EQ &gt; ReOb &gt; EQ... Forever?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5558311</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Jen Pearly:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Of the 3Cs, the one that I don&amp;#039;t see clearly, or that I retreat from, is the self/not-self. Impermanance is very easy to see; so is dukka, even in and around sensations that are ostensibly pleasure. But I &amp;#034;forget&amp;#034; to investigate what I think of as myself. I guess I don&amp;#039;t know where to start because, um, I don&amp;#039;t know where &amp;#034;I&amp;#034; really am (is?). Or maybe it is an evasion, a blind spot I&amp;#039;m subtending. So this that you say below makes me consider anew what I&amp;#039;m &lt;strong&gt;not&lt;/strong&gt; looking at and need to now:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Arial"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt; I would just notice everything arise and vanish on its own, &lt;strong&gt;including everything you think of as you&lt;/strong&gt;. &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Hi Jen Pearly!&lt;br /&gt;I struggled with the same issue, no-self. Then I found a blog post that I personally found extremely helpful. I want to share it in case it might also resonate with your thoughts. Here you go: &lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;nemonavigator&amp;#x2e;blogspot&amp;#x2e;fi&amp;#x2f;2012&amp;#x2f;04&amp;#x2f;jump-in-water-is-lovely&amp;#x2e;html"&gt;http://nemonavigator.blogspot.fi/2012/04/jump-in-water-is-lovely.html&lt;/a&gt;</description> <pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2014 08:56:40 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5558311</guid> <dc:creator>Jehanne S Peacock</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-07-18T08:56:40Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: EQ &gt; ReOb &gt; EQ &gt; ReOb &gt; EQ... Forever?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5558286</link> <description>Mind over easy said:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&amp;#034;I&amp;#039;m disoriented, lost in life, literally terrified of the prospect of living half my life in this carefree, pseudo-enlightened equanimous state, and half in a state of utter unsureness, a feeling of extremely blatant lack of closure…&amp;#034;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The feeling of the absolute is one of never having begun.  Entry into the inconceivable entails a a vague feeling of lack.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Do you feel like you miss you~ or some aspect of your personality?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I would hasten to take advantage of this situation while you still have the opportunity, Moe.  You may be overlooking something by your thinking it&amp;#039;s about you.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If this is not affecting your ability to adapt in ordinary situations, is it your own inability to accept the inner situation as it is?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Perhaps something wants to open up and as long as you &amp;#034;obsess&amp;#034; on yourself, this opportunity may be lost for no good reason?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Just a thought…  I think you might just be afraid of openning up in an impersonal way, perhaps?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Just a thought…</description> <pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2014 02:57:59 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5558286</guid> <dc:creator>deci belle</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-07-18T02:57:59Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: EQ &gt; ReOb &gt; EQ &gt; ReOb &gt; EQ... Forever?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5558106</link> <description>Hi, Daniel. I guess you are saying that straining to stop straining doesn&amp;#039;t work (ie, focusing on whether I am &amp;#034;clinging&amp;#034;). The perceptual shift undoes the clinging. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Of the 3Cs, the one that I don&amp;#039;t see clearly, or that I retreat from, is the self/not-self. Impermanance is very easy to see; so is dukka, even in and around sensations that are ostensibly pleasure. But I &amp;#034;forget&amp;#034; to investigate what I think of as myself. I guess I don&amp;#039;t know where to start because, um, I don&amp;#039;t know where &amp;#034;I&amp;#034; really am (is?). Or maybe it is an evasion, a blind spot I&amp;#039;m subtending. So this that you say below makes me consider anew what I&amp;#039;m &lt;strong&gt;not&lt;/strong&gt; looking at and need to now:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Arial"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt; I would just notice everything arise and vanish on its own, &lt;strong&gt;including everything you think of as you&lt;/strong&gt;. &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description> <pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2014 04:51:45 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5558106</guid> <dc:creator>_</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-07-17T04:51:45Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: EQ &gt; ReOb &gt; EQ &gt; ReOb &gt; EQ... Forever?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5557394</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I wouldn&amp;#039;t focus on whether or not you are Clinging, whatever that is. I would just notice everything arise and vanish on its own, including everything you think of as you. That really gets to the point and bypasses all sorts of complexity and side-tracks. It is the straightforward path.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Could be wrong, but I&amp;#039;m guessing she means clinging to old ways of thought and habit.  It&amp;#039;s hard to see in a new way when you are stilll clinging/attached to the old ways that one has become used to since childhood.  But another way to look at it is to focus more on the new way.  In the end, I think you will have to do both if you want to change.    </description> <pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2014 00:38:11 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5557394</guid> <dc:creator>Eva M Nie</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-07-16T00:38:11Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: EQ &gt; ReOb &gt; EQ &gt; ReOb &gt; EQ... Forever?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5557390</link> <description>Thanks for the tips!</description> <pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2014 00:35:41 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5557390</guid> <dc:creator>Richard Zen</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-07-16T00:35:41Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: EQ &gt; ReOb &gt; EQ &gt; ReOb &gt; EQ... Forever?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5557369</link> <description>Perceive everything come and go, again and again and again, and direct knowledge that there nothing stable enough to cling to and nothing stable enough to cling to it arises on its own.</description> <pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2014 23:52:26 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5557369</guid> <dc:creator>Daniel M. Ingram</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-07-15T23:52:26Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: EQ &gt; ReOb &gt; EQ &gt; ReOb &gt; EQ... Forever?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5557365</link> <description>You definitely don&amp;#039;t need 8 jhanas to get stream entry.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;You definitely don&amp;#039;t even need any samatha jhanas to get stream entry, speaking in a black and white dichotomy between samatha and vipassana jhanas that doesn&amp;#039;t actually exist in practice.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;You do need four vipassana jhanas to get stream entry, but this simply is another way of saying the stages of insight. You do need insight into the Three Characteristics of your whole sense field, as happens at Conformity Knowledge. Plenty will get to that without ever having had anything that really felt samatha-jhanic. I had basically no samatha jhanic ability when I got stream entry, but I could identify the sensations that made up my experience and perceive them come and go fast again and again and again.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I wouldn&amp;#039;t focus on whether or not you are Clinging, whatever that is. I would just notice everything arise and vanish on its own, including everything you think of as you. That really gets to the point and bypasses all sorts of complexity and side-tracks. It is the straightforward path.</description> <pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2014 23:50:49 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5557365</guid> <dc:creator>Daniel M. Ingram</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-07-15T23:50:49Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: EQ &gt; ReOb &gt; EQ &gt; ReOb &gt; EQ... Forever?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5557198</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Jen Pearly:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;I had assumed that you were way past stream entry--because your words consistently resonate with understanding, from where I currently sit. I started out in a Gelug center, where I took book-based classes and attended some profound discussions of dependant origination, karma, and emptiness of inherent existence. Because I came out of deconstruction in a PhD program and actually researched Zen for my dissertation, I think I came from some intellectual understanding but a propensity not to sit with myself and directly apprehend.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;But I agree: experiencing blips or shifts in perceptual thresholds requires framework--a knowledge base, mindfulness, and understanding.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Yeah, I think I will have to cycle some more. Clinging is my MO. &lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;Well I&amp;#039;m not sure if I&amp;#039;m confused or there are different opinions on this but according to Beth Folk-Resnick you don&amp;#039;t need all 8 jhanas to get to stream entry.  She said it was more to do with 2nd path.  According to Hokai Sobel some individuals only need the 1st jhana to see dependent arising.  Seeing dependent arising in real &amp;#034;time&amp;#034; and seeing how the brain is simplifying and building up experience over and over again is how the brain releases clinging.  When I look at intentions and attention as sensations any clinging tends to stop.  Now I do feel clinging when I&amp;#039;m not doing this so I may need to see this more and more times to decling further.  When I notice details of nama-rupa (especially nama) and the clinging releases the personality feeling feels like it drops and the sense of a core in side the head disappears.  I think I&amp;#039;m on the right track.  I&amp;#039;m sure some one will chime in with a different opinion.  It&amp;#039;s definitely a difficult process because of it&amp;#039;s subtlety.</description> <pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2014 14:04:36 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5557198</guid> <dc:creator>Richard Zen</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-07-15T14:04:36Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: EQ &gt; ReOb &gt; EQ &gt; ReOb &gt; EQ... Forever?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5557064</link> <description>Thank you for reminding me to keep noticing mind states during the day. Some days that are hectic and require absorption in work, I do lose track. I start saving practice for the cushion, when the idea is to extend practice into the rest of life.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I also feel lately that I could use a morality booster shot, that I&amp;#039;ve started taking that training too much for granted lately, which is really dangerous--really.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I had assumed that you were way past stream entry--because your words consistently resonate with understanding, from where I currently sit. I started out in a Gelug center, where I took book-based classes and attended some profound discussions of dependant origination, karma, and emptiness of inherent existence. Because I came out of deconstruction in a PhD program and actually researched Zen for my dissertation, I think I came from some intellectual understanding but a propensity not to sit with myself and directly apprehend.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;But I agree: experiencing blips or shifts in perceptual thresholds requires framework--a knowledge base, mindfulness, and understanding.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Yeah, I think I will have to cycle some more. Clinging is my MO. </description> <pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2014 03:25:15 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5557064</guid> <dc:creator>_</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-07-15T03:25:15Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Taking a year off to attain stream entry</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5556455</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Nicolas:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;stream entry will take that away right? &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thanks again!&lt;br /&gt;Nicolas&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;From the point of view of classical Stream Entry, no.  If you let go of clinging to anything (including anything like thinking or evaluating of meditative progress) over long sits and over days the senses should start fading until you get a cessation event when all experience collapses.  The sense of self is always there when there&amp;#039;s measurement in experience.  In resting in consciousness, like a mirror reflecting reality, that mirror seems unaffected by thinking so the small self is replaced by a Big Self.  Then seeing the Big Self as a bunch of vibrations and collapse over and over again you get disenchanted with clinging even to consciousness.  As you progress (wean yourself) through the paths the sense of a self should become less and less.  You still experience reality and perceptions but you see how built up it is and how it can breakdown because of how impermanent and empty experience is.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There are so many models of these stages that one has to ultimately see for themselves.  Having an aversion to a sense of self is just another aversion so I would avoid that subtle trap.  Sometimes acting as a self can be used in daily life in skillful ways.  Personally I would just look at what you react to and learn to relax the reactivity again and again so your equanimity increases because even if you don&amp;#039;t get stream-entry you&amp;#039;ll benefit a lot by tolerating more and more.  Many meditators take for granted how much they&amp;#039;ve improved over time and have trouble enjoying their current skills.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;By staying mindful of the mental stories and watch them pass away on their own should help you disidentify with the small self and then identify with the &amp;#034;watcher&amp;#034;.  Noticing how the watcher is dependent on objects over and over again by being mindful of nama-rupa should help to break down the Big Self into it&amp;#039;s components:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;Nama-rupa: depends on consciousness.  Consciousness depends on Nama-rupa.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;Nama-rupa: Nama &amp;#x2013; Perception, vedana, attention, intention, contact.  Rupa &amp;#x2013; ancient 4 elements.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;Attention: The mind’s movement of attention to a perception/object/experience feels similar to the push and pull of craving/aversion.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;Attention: Consciousness + intention directed at this or that whether we are aware of it or not.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;Push and pull depends on object and vice versa.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;The sense of an object for consciousness depends on attention.  It could be deliberate or not deliberate.  Attention needs objects.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Looking at physics should help you understand that everything is broken down into sub-atomic particles (that we know of) and probably can be divided into something smaller, and certainly all of this is smaller than nama-rupa.  It&amp;#039;s all interdependent.  The perception faculties of the brain purposefully simplify experience into cookie-cutter objects that supposedly feel separate and not connected for survival purposes.  We go after objects to like or dislike for evolutionary survival purposes.  To see through that is to see another perspective that reminds us of impermanence of life and to try and make our purposes with that in mind instead of just producing and consuming experiences.  To feel less separate should deal with loneliness better than chasing people or other objects to get temporary satisfaction.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;All objects are conditioned on prior causes and when adding more detail to the analysis it should be hard to notice the separation.  A tree is distinct on the horizon but it needs sun, CO2, water, fertile soil to exist so it&amp;#039;s truely not separate.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Kenneth Folk&amp;#039;s stages of enlightenment:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;jaytek&amp;#x2e;net&amp;#x2f;KFD&amp;#x2f;KFDForum&amp;#x2f;page&amp;#x2f;A&amp;#x25;2B9&amp;#x25;2BStage&amp;#x25;2BMap&amp;#x25;2Bof&amp;#x25;2BDevelopmental&amp;#x25;2BEnlightenmenthtml&amp;#x2e;html"&gt;http://jaytek.net/KFD/KFDForum/page/A%2B9%2BStage%2BMap%2Bof%2BDevelopmental%2BEnlightenmenthtml.html&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;10 fetters&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetter_(Buddhism)#Sutta_Pitaka.27s_list_of_ten_fetters]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetter_(Buddhism)#Sutta_Pitaka.27s_list_of_ten_fetters&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Hurricane Ranch Parts 1-3&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;integrateddaniel&amp;#x2e;info&amp;#x2f;podcasts-and-videos&amp;#x2f;"&gt;http://integrateddaniel.info/podcasts-and-videos/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If you want to look at time further:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;dharmaseed&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;teacher&amp;#x2f;210&amp;#x2f;talk&amp;#x2f;11929&amp;#x2f;"&gt;http://www.dharmaseed.org/teacher/210/talk/11929/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Oh and here&amp;#039;s a timely post today reminding of how time appears when we search for it:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;dharmaoverground&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;discussion&amp;#x2f;-&amp;#x2f;message_boards&amp;#x2f;message&amp;#x2f;5354465&amp;#x23;_19_message_5336055"&gt;http://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/message/5354465#_19_message_5336055&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Good luck!</description> <pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2014 02:50:46 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5556455</guid> <dc:creator>Richard Zen</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-07-13T02:50:46Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Taking a year off to attain stream entry</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5556450</link> <description>That was some REALLY good technical advices! Thank you so much! I just meditated listening to the talk and went way deeper than usual.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;My last insights on retreat were that as soon as sensations of thinking/desiring/wanting arise, suffering (judgement of unpleasant sensations on the body) follow. As soon as my awareness is not 100% with what is right here, right now, it creates a gap in time in which my body is reacting (sankhara) really fast.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I never thought of experiencing time as sensations... very powerfull There is a lot in that talk indeed!&lt;br /&gt;I guess I should also investigate time and its pertaining characteristics ?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;On my last retreat (especially after 4 days of continous, ardant and persistent awareness of the breath), I had big gimples of the causal structure of intentions, thoughts, reactions, desires and also the very fact of becoming aware. That contributed to seeing anatta in real time and increased my equanimity towards subtler sensations (especially mental sensations where I could see emotions arising causally).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I don&amp;#039;t believe in a self anymore (conceptually speaking), but I still experience reality as &amp;#034;me vs external environment&amp;#034;. The suffering brought by that distinction/separation is always in my face and I am quite tired of it, stream entry will take that away right? &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thanks again!&lt;br /&gt;Nicolas</description> <pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2014 01:35:41 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5556450</guid> <dc:creator>Nicolas</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-07-13T01:35:41Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Taking a year off to attain stream entry</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5556436</link> <description>There&amp;#039;s nothing overkill about what your doing when you&amp;#039;re talking about a practice that some have done for years in caves.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Your goal is to understand dependent arising in real time.  If you discover it quickly at home or over a long retreat, what matters is that you find it in your experience.  Stream-entry (whether you get a blip or not) is just losing the belief that there&amp;#039;s an inherent self that is above cause and effect, and you don&amp;#039;t believe in rites and rituals to get you to enlightenment.  After that you have a lot of work to do to decondition bad habits and develop good ones.  If thoughts are treated as sensations (because how you think triggers happy and unhappy chemicals) you can let go of them (including thoughts about Buddhism and any strategizing/analyzing).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A higher level than this is to notice that arising and passing away, or cause and effect is just more sectioning off experience into conceptual chunks.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Concentration practice is just to improve that skill so you can see dependent arising really well.  The big failure that meditators make (on or off retreat) is that they are striving with too much grasping.  You don&amp;#039;t want to be too loose or too tight.  It&amp;#039;s okay to really put effort into noting but it&amp;#039;s more about labeling what you actually experience and to do it consistently and not missing any experience.  When the brain sees that everything is an experience including the attention apparatus that is witnessing then no self can be found.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Read especially about nama-rupa.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This dharma talk will point out exactly what you want to look for in actual meditative experience.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;dharmaseed&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;teacher&amp;#x2f;210&amp;#x2f;talk&amp;#x2f;9553&amp;#x2f;"&gt;http://www.dharmaseed.org/teacher/210/talk/9553/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There&amp;#039;s a lot of detail in that talk so write it down.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;When you label you&amp;#039;re trying to find a self and only finding cause and effect.  Read the following Daniel quote:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;Things happen due to conditions.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Intentions cause actions.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Sensations cause mental impressions.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Start with those. Notice them again and again and again, thousands of times, arising causally, lawfully, with conditions leading to more conditions that lead to more conditions.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It is that simple, but beyond the theory, you have to get good at seeing it in real-time, in your field of experience, in your body, in your mind, and, when you get really good at that, it is clear: intentions arise causally, lawfully, not due to some self. Mental impressions arise lawfully, causally, not due to some self. All is seen as it is, happening naturally, based on the laws of reality, not on the whims of some imagined independent entity that is somehow outside of lawful causality. This is a transformative insight.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Helpful?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Daniel&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description> <pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2014 00:06:19 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5556436</guid> <dc:creator>Richard Zen</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-07-13T00:06:19Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Taking a year off to attain stream entry</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5556429</link> <description>Is it possible to set time tables for these things as if you were constructing a skyscraper?  Is there much commonality in time frames between practicioners? </description> <pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2014 23:44:40 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5556429</guid> <dc:creator>Eva M Nie</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-07-12T23:44:40Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Taking a year off to attain stream entry</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5556424</link> <description>I went through the entire section on retreat centers and I also read a book on the different centers/teaching styles in Asia. What I am wondering is how much should I expect to have to work given my present stage?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I was thinking of doing a 30-45 days Samadhi at Pa Auk forest monastery followed by a 60-90 days of noting practice (at Panditarama?) is that an overkill? &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thanks</description> <pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2014 23:00:12 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5556424</guid> <dc:creator>Nicolas</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-07-12T23:00:12Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Taking a year off to attain stream entry</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5556393</link> <description>Thanks a lot Richard!&lt;br /&gt;I will read that and come back if I have any questions &lt;img alt="emoticon" src="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dho-theme/images/emoticons/happy.gif" &gt;</description> <pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2014 21:00:17 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5556393</guid> <dc:creator>Nicolas</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-07-12T21:00:17Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Taking a year off to attain stream entry</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5556377</link> <description>You might find a place in the retreat centers section of the website:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;dharmaoverground&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;web&amp;#x2f;guest&amp;#x2f;discussion&amp;#x2f;-&amp;#x2f;message_boards&amp;#x2f;category&amp;#x2f;11915"&gt;http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/category/11915&lt;/a&gt;</description> <pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2014 19:41:14 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5556377</guid> <dc:creator>Richard Zen</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-07-12T19:41:14Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>Taking a year off to attain stream entry</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5556348</link> <description>Hi everyone!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;strong&gt;My background : &lt;br /&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;- During the last 10 months I have done 3 intense Goenka Retreats &lt;br /&gt;- I have cycled through a couple of dark nights on and off retreats.&lt;br /&gt;- I believe I am somewhere in the equanimity territories (effortless awareness of sensations and their anicha/anatta nature, wide perception as if I am emptiness/nothingness/awareness altogether, there is not much difference between when I am formaly meditating or and when I am just chilling )&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;My goal/plan :&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;- During my last dark night  (3 months ago) I put my studies on hold to focus on getting my self back together. I am aiming for stream entry.&lt;br /&gt;- I am currently looking at different meditation centers/monasteries in South-East Asia and considering going to Asia until I get it done.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Any advice about :&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;- where to go &lt;br /&gt;- how much I should spend in concentration VS insight&lt;br /&gt;- I think I deeply understood the first and second noble truths during my last retreat and so I think I understand the path but I would like someone else to confirm what I think&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;would be very appreciated! &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thanks a lot! &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Nicolas&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;(PS : pm me if you want to skype &lt;img alt="emoticon" src="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dho-theme/images/emoticons/smile.gif" &gt; )</description> <pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2014 17:55:57 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5556348</guid> <dc:creator>Nicolas</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-07-12T17:55:57Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: EQ &gt; ReOb &gt; EQ &gt; ReOb &gt; EQ... Forever?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5556224</link> <description>I agree with Eva. If you put to much effort to get something you don&amp;#039;t even know what is it will cause you trouble.&lt;br /&gt;Stream Entry will be a result for your effort doing (some kind of) insight practice. May make a wish to get it but don&amp;#039;t worry about it. &lt;br /&gt;If you are hungry you eat but you don&amp;#039;t need to worry about how to get energy from the food. Result will come if you do the technique corretly.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It is easy to get lost in the DN and easy to get lazy in EQ and fall back again but more you fall back more you learn. Also worth to mention the &amp;#034;paramis&amp;#034; (perfections). With good paramis you get it faster. So work on your morality and result will come easier.&lt;br /&gt;(and of course intense retreats make the progress much faster) &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Of course you will cycling after stream entry (even arhats do) but if you get it you will have the feeling &amp;#034;oh, that was what I needed&amp;#034;. &lt;br /&gt;You won&amp;#039;t get what you expect but what you get will satisfy, at least for a while... </description> <pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2014 11:03:06 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5556224</guid> <dc:creator>Noting Monkey</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-07-12T11:03:06Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: EQ &gt; ReOb &gt; EQ &gt; ReOb &gt; EQ... Forever?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5556162</link> <description>IME, if you want something SOOOO bad, typically you either won&amp;#039;t get it or if you do, it will not be good for you.  When someone wants something really really bad, the concepts and ideas and emotions around that thing have a lot of control over your life and self.  What if that thing turns out to be not what you expected?  What if there might be profound disappointment if you get it and find out the real truth of it?  Would it then be better to just not get it at all and be frustrated instead of getting it and being profoundly disappointed?   What if you have a ton of preconceived notions about the thing you want and it is the notions that you cling to and long for, but not the real thing itself?  Would you still get the real thing if you are in fact mostly reaching after assumptions that are not true? &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Reading your post and replies, one might get the impression that you have tried everything and so are sure of your stuckness but that is also a certain kind of mindset that assumes that and partakes in that attitude and batch of assumptions.  Maybe the trick would be to learn how to cut back on obsessing over stream entry of the future.  Stream entry is just one point on a very very large and long map and it probably will be very different than you can imagine right now because these kinds of weird things usually turn out that way.  Your strong desire for stream entry may in fact be part of or a symptom of what is stopping from getting it, especially if you have many inaccurate expectations for it.  It&amp;#039;s a weird kind of catch 22 but IME, life often works like that.  Want something a little and with no special expectations of it, and you will probably get it.  Want something a LOT and have a big fantasy about all the greatness and monster pleasure it will bring you, and you are much less likely to get it, IME. </description> <pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2014 07:41:17 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5556162</guid> <dc:creator>Eva M Nie</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-07-12T07:41:17Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: EQ &gt; ReOb &gt; EQ &gt; ReOb &gt; EQ... Forever?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5554914</link> <description>&amp;gt; &lt;em&gt;Heed the warnings in Daniel&amp;#039;s book well; the cost of trying to get &lt;br /&gt;enlightened could be cycling through utterly painful mind states the &lt;br /&gt;rest of your life and never seeing the shore, despite putting forth a &lt;br /&gt;great effort to complete the task.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So, whether or not it&amp;#039;s the case that some people may never get through EQ..&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Those who have made it through to stream entry, is it worth it?  Are you cycling and dealing with the downsides, and happy that you did the work in practice?</description> <pubDate>Thu, 10 Jul 2014 18:17:46 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5554914</guid> <dc:creator>cmm</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-07-10T18:17:46Z</dc:date> </item> </channel> </rss> 