<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?> <rss xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" version="2.0"> <channel> <title>More on the "suicide reflex"</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_thread?p_l_id=&amp;threadId=5431005</link> <description>More on the "suicide reflex"</description> <pubDate>Sun, 19 Oct 2014 01:33:14 GMT</pubDate> <dc:date>2014-10-19T01:33:14Z</dc:date> <item> <title>RE: More on the "suicide reflex"</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5572984</link> <description>Thanks...I see a psychiatrist and psychologist regularly.</description> <pubDate>Sun, 24 Aug 2014 15:48:06 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5572984</guid> <dc:creator>Adam Dietrich Ringle</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-24T15:48:06Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: More on the "suicide reflex"</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5572247</link> <description>Hey, I have that problem too. Picked it up in the Dark Night two years ago and it hasn&amp;#039;t really gone away, even though I generally have good days. I have suicidal thoughts multiple times a day, even when I&amp;#039;m in a good mood, it&amp;#039;s just like a weird Desire for Deliverance thing I think.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;You need to be careful with this. Do you have a plan for committing suicide? Have you thought about method, aftermath, etc? If so, it&amp;#039;s probably more than just a reflex and it&amp;#039;s time to see a psychologist. </description> <pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2014 01:21:10 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5572247</guid> <dc:creator>Eric M W</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-23T01:21:10Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: More on the "suicide reflex"</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5572132</link> <description>I tried this kind of practice mentioned above...it has a way of spiraling into meaninglessness. </description> <pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2014 20:44:00 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5572132</guid> <dc:creator>Adam Dietrich Ringle</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-22T20:44:00Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: More on the "suicide reflex"</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5571724</link> <description>Wiki link - &lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;en&amp;#x2e;wikipedia&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;wiki&amp;#x2f;Ta&amp;#x25;E1&amp;#x25;B9&amp;#x25;87h&amp;#x25;C4&amp;#x25;81"&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ta%E1%B9%87h%C4%81&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Buddha identified three types of &lt;em&gt;taṇhā&lt;/em&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;ul style="list-style: disc outside;"&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;em&gt;Kama-tanha&lt;/em&gt; (sense-craving): craving for sense objects which provide pleasant feeling, or craving for sensory pleasures.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;em&gt;Bhava-tanha&lt;/em&gt; (craving to be): craving to be something, to &lt;br /&gt;unite with an experience. This includes craving to be solid and ongoing,&lt;br /&gt; to be a being that has a past and a future,&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;en&amp;#x2e;wikipedia&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;wiki&amp;#x2f;Ta&amp;#x25;E1&amp;#x25;B9&amp;#x25;87h&amp;#x25;C4&amp;#x25;81&amp;#x23;cite_note-FOOTNOTEAjahn_Sucitto2010Kindle_loc&amp;#x2e;_966-979-9"&gt;[8]&lt;/a&gt; and craving to prevail and dominate over others.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;em&gt;Vibhava-tanha&lt;/em&gt; (craving not to be): craving to not experience the world, and to be nothing; a wish to be separated from painful feelings.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul style="list-style: disc outside;"&gt;&lt;em&gt;Vibhava-tanha&lt;/em&gt; is described as follows:&lt;ul style="list-style: disc outside;"&gt;&lt;li&gt;Pali: &lt;em&gt;vibhava-taṇhā&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Also referred to as craving for &amp;#034;no becoming&amp;#034; or &amp;#034;non-existence&amp;#034; or &amp;#034;extermination&amp;#034;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;en&amp;#x2e;wikipedia&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;wiki&amp;#x2f;Ta&amp;#x25;E1&amp;#x25;B9&amp;#x25;87h&amp;#x25;C4&amp;#x25;81&amp;#x23;cite_note-12"&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;This is craving to not experience the world, and to be nothing.&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;en&amp;#x2e;wikipedia&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;wiki&amp;#x2f;Ta&amp;#x25;E1&amp;#x25;B9&amp;#x25;87h&amp;#x25;C4&amp;#x25;81&amp;#x23;cite_note-sucitto1-4"&gt;[4]&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;The Dalai Lama states that craving for &amp;#034;destruction is a wish to be separated from painful feelings&amp;#034;.&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;en&amp;#x2e;wikipedia&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;wiki&amp;#x2f;Ta&amp;#x25;E1&amp;#x25;B9&amp;#x25;87h&amp;#x25;C4&amp;#x25;81&amp;#x23;cite_note-13"&gt;[11]&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Ron Leifer states: &amp;#034;As the desire for life is based on the desire &lt;br /&gt;for pleasure and happiness, the desire for death is based on the desire &lt;br /&gt;to escape pain and ... The desire for death is the yearning &lt;br /&gt;for relief from pain, from anxiety, from disappointment, despair, and &lt;br /&gt;negativity.&amp;#034;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;en&amp;#x2e;wikipedia&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;wiki&amp;#x2f;Ta&amp;#x25;E1&amp;#x25;B9&amp;#x25;87h&amp;#x25;C4&amp;#x25;81&amp;#x23;cite_note-leifer2-14"&gt;[12]&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&amp;#034;The motive for the desire for death is most transparent in cases of&lt;br /&gt; suicide. Clearly, people with terminal illnesses who commit suicide are&lt;br /&gt; motivated by the desire to escape from physical pain and suffering. In &lt;br /&gt;so-called &amp;#034;altruistic&amp;#034; suicide, such as &lt;em&gt;hari-kari&lt;/em&gt;, &lt;em&gt;kamakazi&lt;/em&gt;, and other forms of socially conditioned suicide, the motive is to avoid mental suffering&amp;#x2013;shame, humiliation, and disgrace.&amp;#034;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul style="list-style: disc outside;"&gt;</description> <pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2014 22:45:36 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5571724</guid> <dc:creator>Dream Walker</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-21T22:45:36Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: More on the "suicide reflex"</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5571715</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Adam Dietrich Ringle:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;I think that such types of &amp;#034;suicide reflexes&amp;#034; (that is, the feeling of acting out such an action without actually killing oneself) are unpleasant because they expose our attachment to pleasurable objects that we may have been meditating on.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;And if your mind is really messed up you may even reach meditative absorption on the wish to be annhilated</description> <pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2014 22:02:56 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5571715</guid> <dc:creator>Adam Dietrich Ringle</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-21T22:02:56Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: More on the "suicide reflex"</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5570176</link> <description>I think that such types of &amp;#034;suicide reflexes&amp;#034; (that is, the feeling of acting out such an action without actually killing oneself) are unpleasant because they expose our attachment to pleasurable objects that we may have been meditating on.</description> <pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2014 17:33:30 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5570176</guid> <dc:creator>Adam Dietrich Ringle</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-17T17:33:30Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: More on the "suicide reflex"</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5436485</link> <description>I had similar sensations going on during the worst of my Dark night period this winter. It was the thoughts of suicide accompanied by a rising, rushing feeling from my feet up through my chest and then to the crown, like something was trying desperately to escape. Perhaps an exorcism would&amp;#039;ve saved some time, but I just kept practicing through it. I began to notice funny things, like that my suicidal thoughts were accompanied by the smell of cooking french fries ( this was in a park, at night, with the wind blowing). I interpreted this as the insight practice burning off the unhealthy brain matter that habitual negativity had shored up. It worked for me, and looking back I can say I was definitely in the Disgust or Desire for Deliverance stage. All kinds of weird body things were happening, especially in the head region, don&amp;#039;t be too alarmed, they pass and won&amp;#039;t hurt you. I ended up going back on anti depressants, which felt like failure at the time but they bought me some breathing room and helped me focus enough to organize my practice in a way that gets me to low Equanimity fairly reliably. I can go on if anyone is interested.</description> <pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2014 19:33:18 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5436485</guid> <dc:creator>Hazard J Gibbons</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-04-18T19:33:18Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>More on the "suicide reflex"</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5431004</link> <description>Hi everyone,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A few weeks ago, I posted a thread on here describing what I call the suicide reflex...kind of a helpless and hopeless desire for salvation that springs forth from the root up to the head and crown area.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Such sensations are generally not fun. This kind of thing is about as dark as it gets in the dharma world.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Now, while part of me would have liked to come on here and report that I am happier and have a brighter vision on the world, thus no longer getting such impulses for ending my own life. This is only partially true. I still get the suicide reflex, however.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Last night I was meditating during a evening group centering prayer exercise at a local church. At one point I kind of got lost in thought. I kept noticing how my mind was giving me the sense of unifying and then reproducing, unifying and reproducing. It was a rather restful state of mind.&lt;br /&gt;Well, something happened and my mind got desperate...the suicide reflex kicked in. What happened next shocked me, however. I noticed that the act of wanting to end my life was in fact a coming together of my mind in a very complete sense (as complete as it can get in the dharma world, that is), and that this union (which happened at the crown, I think) produced its own little dharma offspring.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It was indeed a moment for silently rejoicing.</description> <pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2014 13:53:03 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5431004</guid> <dc:creator>Adam Dietrich Ringle</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-04-16T13:53:03Z</dc:date> </item> </channel> </rss> 