<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?> <rss xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" version="2.0"> <channel> <title>Retreat Centers</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_category?p_l_id=&amp;mbCategoryId=11915</link> <description>Here is a place to post discussions of places to go on retreat.</description> <pubDate>Sun, 19 Oct 2014 00:42:05 GMT</pubDate> <dc:date>2014-10-19T00:42:05Z</dc:date> <item> <title>RE: Ajahn Tong (Mahasi-like) vipassana center in Prague, Oct-Dec 2014</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5605598</link> <description>As reminder: the center started last Saturday, people are coming, some from abroad. Looking forward to welcome you.</description> <pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2014 20:29:38 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5605598</guid> <dc:creator>Eudoxos .</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-15T20:29:38Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Metta-Retreat 2.-9. Oct 2014, with Visu Teoh, at Pauenhof in West Germa</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5602625</link> <description>Hi bernd the broter,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It&amp;#039;s just too late for you... did you do the retreat? See it finished yesterday.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I met Visu last year (May 2013) in Malaysia. Really genuinely lovely warm guy. His wife is German and I met her whilst on retreat in Malaysia where they live (Penang) half the year (the other half spent in Europe, where he has his teaching schedule).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I finished the retreat a month or so after his wife had already left for Germany. So, didn&amp;#039;t even have a &amp;#034;proper&amp;#034; intro through his wife but after emailing him he was very happy to meet me and indeed took me out 3 or 4 times for dinner/coffee. Very hospitable. And apologetic that they didn&amp;#039;t have the space at the time to put me up for a few days. He had been a monk for 17 years before becoming disillusioned with the whole monastic hierarchy plus the us/them (monastics/lay) thing. Was very much into metta meditation. And you could see genuine warmth coming across.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Glad I spotted this thread because he came to mind whilst I was on retreat in Thailand and now that I&amp;#039;m back in UK I thought, be great to return the compliments sometime. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;~Piers</description> <pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2014 22:38:46 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5602625</guid> <dc:creator>Piers M</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-10T22:38:46Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Accepted onto 60-day Panditarama Retreat But...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5599321</link> <description>[quote=Daniel M. Ingram&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;Violent physical shaking and bright lights are the stage of the A&amp;amp;P, with Fear coming after that, as you describe. &lt;/span&gt;&lt;u&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;Thus, you have insights&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/u&gt;]&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: #000080"&gt;I See. I never considered these phenomena to be insights. &lt;u&gt;As in understanding the workings of the 3Cs.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/u&gt;I just watched your map explanation video: &lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="httphttp&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;vimeo&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;69475208&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;vimeo&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;69475208"&gt;&lt;span style="color: #000080"&gt;&lt;u&gt;http://vimeo.com/69475208&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;span style="color: #000080"&gt;(It&amp;#039;s almost 1/2 hr long and for anyone intersted there&amp;#039;s also a useful map &lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="herehttp&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;static&amp;#x2e;squarespace&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;static&amp;#x2f;5037f52d84ae1e87f694cfda&amp;#x2f;t&amp;#x2f;5055922624acbaa64592c1c3&amp;#x2f;1347785254496&amp;#x2f;"&gt;&lt;span style="color: #000080"&gt;&lt;u&gt;here&lt;/u&gt;)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;span style="color: #000080"&gt;I can relate to quite a lot of stuff mentioned roughly right up to what&amp;#039;s called the &amp;#034;Desire for Deliverance&amp;#034; stage 9, and a few years ago when I first read your book it nearly blew my socks off because I ticked practically every box you mentioned for this stage vis: sorting out your financial and other worldly affairs in order to commit to retreat time, quitting work, fascination with celibacy etc.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I think one of my problems perhaps going right back to my first Goenka retreats is that I&amp;#039;ve been looking for &amp;#034;something else&amp;#034;, maybe &amp;#034;something special&amp;#034; to happen. This is partly because Goenka says what &amp;#034;will&amp;#034; happen for Yogis on their first 10-day retreat or for some maybe 2 or 3 retreats and the way he describes it, it never happened for me after 20+ retreats so, I was a) wondering what&amp;#039;s wrong with me (like as though everyone else is getting it and I&amp;#039;m not) and b) never really content to just be with what is happening (thinking something else should be happening).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;These things do commonly freak people out.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If you were in those stages, the standard advice is to realize that at that point your mind can go much faster than noting, which is slow and clunky, and drop to perceiving anything buzzing, vibrating, pulsing, all the way up and down the breath and in whatever else happens, basically without caring if the body shakes or not.&lt;strong&gt; It is best to practice this alone in your own room during that stage.&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: #000080"&gt;Hopefully I can, it might depend on the center rules &amp;amp; regs vis. sitting along in your room. Maybe if things get too hectic, they&amp;#039;ll realize it&amp;#039;s necessary (for the other yogis too!).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I was just sitting today and for some reason remembered an experience from many years ago whilst on retreat (with a group of around 100 yogis in the main hall):&lt;br /&gt;I was doing anapanasati at the nostrils when suddenly sound just &amp;#034;dropped away&amp;#034; for about 2-3 minutes. What I mean by this is that normally I was quite aware of when others may have coughed or sneezed etc, but for those few moments hearing just dropped to maybe 5 or 10% of normal and this was accompanied by calm feeling and not being disturbed by any sound at that time.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Is this most likely an A&amp;amp;P event?&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: #000080"&gt;Thanks, Piers&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description> <pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2014 20:37:22 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5599321</guid> <dc:creator>Piers M</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-05T20:37:22Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Accepted onto 60-day Panditarama Retreat But...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5597556</link> <description>Violent physical shaking and bright lights are the stage of the A&amp;amp;P, with Fear coming after that, as you describe. Thus, you have insights.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;These things do commonly freak people out.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If you were in those stages, the standard advice is to realize that at that point your mind can go much faster than noting, which is slow and clunky, and drop to perceiving anything buzzing, vibrating, pulsing, all the way up and down the breath and in whatever else happens, basically without caring if the body shakes or not. It is best to practice this alone in your own room during that stage.</description> <pubDate>Sat, 04 Oct 2014 08:22:32 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5597556</guid> <dc:creator>Daniel M. Ingram</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-04T08:22:32Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Accepted onto 60-day Panditarama Retreat But...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5597366</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Daniel M. Ingram:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;That is an impressive resume of retreats to not have the insights that would be expected from that. What did you do on those retreats? &lt;strong&gt;Did you note every second from the time you woke up until the time you went to sleep?&lt;/strong&gt; How rapidly did you try to perceive things changing? How do you conceive of the practice and the results?&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;When I was in Malaysia 2012/13, I certainly attempted to note every waking second. Nothing much happened for the first 3 months and I was almost going to jack it in had a visa run, break for a week, then went back and continued then I had a month or at least 3 weeks with the &amp;#034;best&amp;#034; concentration I&amp;#039;ve ever had, especially when sitting, almost no break in terms of awareness of rising and falling. That&amp;#039;s when some other phenomena such as bright lights and extraordinarily wild physical shaking occurred (discussed this at length here back then) at which I thought I could &amp;#034;note my way out of&amp;#034; by being present and aware and noting every single twist shake jolt tremble etc but it only got worse at which point I became fearful (by this point it had been going on for about a week) and the teacher told me I had to actually stop it. ie not just &amp;#034;ride the wave&amp;#034; and note it which is what I thought I was supposed to do but open eyes or sit up straight or get up. But not continue to roll in it. So, yes, I continued practicing whilst attempting to note every waking second.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The shaking phenomena has not left (1+1/2 years on) but I am less disturbed by it and nearly always stop it if it starts coming on too strong by straightening up the body (usually does the trick) or even opening the eyes whilst noting what I&amp;#039;m doing whilst doing it. Thinking about it, even though I&amp;#039;m very used to it, I am probably somewhat irritated by it happening still. I want it to &amp;#034; go away &amp;#034; but it doesn&amp;#039;t. I also fully accept now that I am causing it. Ajahn Amaro (chief monk at Amaravati) mentioned to me that he had had the same problem about 30 years back. It took him years to work through it. That gave me some grain of comfort that if such a senior monk had also struggled with it, I was not alone in that sense. I have now realized that there are a fair few others who struggle with it.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Arial"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;How rapidly did you try to perceive things changing? How do you conceive of the practice and the results?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Arial"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&amp;#039;m unable to perceive things at the rate you mention in MCTB (10 times per second). I am usually noting much more slowly than that. If I am walking or doing daily stuff on retreat then I&amp;#039;m noting just maybe once or twice a second my movements or thoughts. However at times this might slow further a little bit. When sitting, it&amp;#039;s a bit faster than that, maybe 2 or 3 times a second at times.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The practice... well, I am wondering which direction to head in terms of practice. I feel like doing Kasina to help build concentration, but whilst doing this I am doing a lot of noting at the same time (of what I&amp;#039;m seeing). However, at times I also feel like doing &amp;#034;nada&amp;#034; sound practice as &amp;#034;the sound of silence&amp;#034; as it&amp;#039;s been coined elsewhere comes up quite a lot for me too. Indeed on my last recent 1 week retreat, whilst doing walking meditation it so happened a few times that the sound came on so strong, I wasn&amp;#039;t sure if I should stop walking altogether and just note &amp;#034;hearing hearing&amp;#034; continuously or else not even note it but just be with it.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Results? Well, I can see from the maps that I haven&amp;#039;t progressed very far..... Is that what you mean?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Piers&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description> <pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2014 22:27:17 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5597366</guid> <dc:creator>Piers M</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-03T22:27:17Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Accepted onto 60-day Panditarama Retreat But...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5597315</link> <description>That is an impressive resume of retreats to not have the insights that would be expected from that. What did you do on those retreats? Did you note every second from the time you woke up until the time you went to sleep? How rapidly did you try to perceive things changing? How do you conceive of the practice and the results?</description> <pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2014 21:36:37 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5597315</guid> <dc:creator>Daniel M. Ingram</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-03T21:36:37Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Accepted onto 60-day Panditarama Retreat But...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5596702</link> <description>I&amp;#039;d say: trust the teacher in Panditarama; it is quite a respectable place and I&amp;#039;d assume they know their stuff. Mahasi Vipassana has elaborate theory aboult balancing the faculties (which you surely know), they should guide you (or, better said, if you keep instructions, that balance will establish itself) to have as much concentration as you need for insights, not too little and not too much.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Plus obligatory footnote (which drove me always crazy when I heard teachers telling me that): if you have doubt about the meditation, acknowledge doubt, if you have ambition for insight, acknowledge ambition; and go back to rising/falling.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Good luck!</description> <pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2014 07:08:44 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5596702</guid> <dc:creator>Eudoxos .</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-03T07:08:44Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Monastic tradition with strong community aspects</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5596140</link> <description>The activity and projects of Thabarwa Sayadaw U Ottamasara might be of interest to you,  even though his place cannot be considered a monastery because of to much involvement with lay people. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;He set up a meditation center which ended up functioning as a refugee camp at the same time,  taking care of poor,  homeless,  sick and who ever needs care.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;His aim was and is to teach meditation to everybody regardless of their circumstances ,  thats why he does not emphasize rules but to do good deeds at his center. &lt;br /&gt;If there are less rules,  there will be more chance for people to get involved in meditation. &lt;br /&gt;Self responsibility is the key,  it is totally different than the normal quiet meditation center,  which most people imagine when they think of meditation. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This thabarwa (burmese: natural) center are actually branches set up and rapidly expanding throughout myanmar,  this year the first center opened up in malaysia.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Main purpose is meditation but there are also unlimited possibilities for meditators and lay people to do meditation in action to contribute to the well being of others. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This kind of activity from a monk is extremely rare in myanmar,  it gets a lot of support from monks who come regularly to visit and teach. almost daily different monks from many kinds of tradition come to teach at Thabarwa Center. &lt;br /&gt;There is also a lot of criticism for lack of Vinaya &lt;br /&gt;But the good deeds are more important and also the center is rapidly changing and improving with time.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It is a very new center only 8 years old, but it is a huge village with 3000 people and a lot of room for improvement. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There is a meditation schedule for yogis who strictly want to meditate. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The monks (about 200) in the center collecting a lot of food daily to support the elderly and sick living in the center is actually the only activity they collectively do but now they also set up a school for young nuns and one for novices to study the dhamma. &lt;br /&gt;Nuns and monks do alot of the administration,  planning and organizing of thabarw projects like dhamma hospitals,  schools,  dhamma halls,  building pagodas and new wellfare villages etc. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thabarwameditationcenter.wordpress.com </description> <pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2014 08:30:00 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5596140</guid> <dc:creator>Calvin</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-02T08:30:00Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Myanmar Visa Questions</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5596122</link> <description>Hi,  i just got a 90 day meditation visa in Bangkok,  earlier this year I got the visa in Kuala Lumpur. February, March and April are pleasant times to go.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Getting the visa in Bangkok and Kuala Lumpur is easy.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Myanmar Embassy in Bangkok is located at the BTS Surasak &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Visa application 9 am to 12 noon &lt;br /&gt;Visa pick up 3:30 pm to 4:30 pm &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Submit 5 items &lt;br /&gt;1. Filled out application form (business/meditation visa is only 1page) &lt;br /&gt;2. An invitation/sponsor letter from the meditation center &lt;br /&gt;3. 2 passport fotos with a white background &lt;br /&gt;4. copy of the passport ID page (there is a copy machine at the embassy,  charing 3 thai baht per page) &lt;br /&gt;5. The original passport &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Submit these items at counter 4 to receive a queuing card,than go to queue at counter 1 for payment (they only accept thai baht) &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;2115 thai baht for same day pick up &lt;br /&gt;1780 thai baht for next day pick up &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Visa Pick up time is from 3:30 pm to 4:30 pm &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In Kuala Lumpur the myanmar visa office is located at Masjid Jarmek LRT&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Application time is from 9:30 am to 12:30 pm Pick up time is 4 pm to 5 pm &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Same requirements as in Bangkok &lt;br /&gt;180 Malaysian ringgit for same day visa pick up&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;this is the application guide from thabarwameditationcenter.wordpress.com</description> <pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2014 07:10:27 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5596122</guid> <dc:creator>Calvin</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-02T07:10:27Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Metta-Retreat 2.-9. Oct 2014, with Visu Teoh, at Pauenhof in West Germa</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5593320</link> <description>I just returned from a two day retreat with Visu Teoh. It was really good.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;He teaches very accessible, and he really embodies metta.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I highly recommend his retreats!</description> <pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2014 19:30:07 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5593320</guid> <dc:creator>Pjotr Hill</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-28T19:30:07Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Myanmar Visa Questions</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5592390</link> <description>Hi Gabriel,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thanks very much for reply. Some really useful information there. Sounds like you had a productive trip &lt;img alt="emoticon" src="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dho-theme/images/emoticons/happy.gif" &gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Nick</description> <pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2014 15:19:27 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5592390</guid> <dc:creator>Nick Green</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-25T15:19:27Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Myanmar Visa Questions</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5591412</link> <description>Hey Nick! &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&amp;#039;ve been in Myanmar for 6 weeks with a Meditation Visa in May/June 2014, so I can answer most of your questions : &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;1. To get a meditation visa, you need a printed sponsorship letter from a Burmese monastery, otherwise the embassy you&amp;#039;ll be applying at won&amp;#039;t issue you the meditation (religious) visa. It&amp;#039;s not allowed to do tourism with a meditation visa, but really, nothing stops you from taking a few days before and after the retreat to explore the country a little. Although it&amp;#039;s not permitted, I really don&amp;#039;t see how it would be a problem. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;2. Some centers won&amp;#039;t allow you to stay in their monastery with a normal &amp;#034;tourist&amp;#034; visa, and most will definitely not allow you to stay beyond your visa expiry date, as it would put them in legal trouble. The fee is 3$ per day if you overstay your visa, payable at the airport when you exit the country. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;3. February and March are amongst the best months to travel in Myanmar. It&amp;#039;s the dry season so there shouldn&amp;#039;t be too many mosquitoes and the weather isn&amp;#039;t as uncomfortably hot as in May/June. I would assume that regions closer to the water are worse for mosquitoes whereas those closer to Yangon are better. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;4. I&amp;#039;ve stayed at Pa Auk Tawya, which focuses strongly on concentration practices, and I really liked the center. I&amp;#039;ve also heard good about other centers (like Panditarma). It really comes down to personal preference and what type of meditation/tradition you want to practice.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The tourist visa is 28 days, and most hostels/guesthouses won&amp;#039;t rent you a room if it is expired. Normally, the meditation visa is also 28 days by default, but as far as I know, your monastery is able to extend it to 3 months, 6 months or 1 year. The process takes a little while so definitely do it as soon as you arrive in the monastery, especially if you plan to stay a short period of time. Also, you could always do a &amp;#034;visa run&amp;#034; by booking a flight back and forth to Bangkok with a cheap airlines, get a new tourist visa, and resume tourism in Myanmar then.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Don&amp;#039;t hesitate to ask if you want more info!</description> <pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2014 16:18:56 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5591412</guid> <dc:creator>Gabriel Rocheleau</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-24T16:18:56Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>Accepted onto 60-day Panditarama Retreat But...</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5590456</link> <description>But...am I wasting my time?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A bit of background may be useful to my dilema: After several years practicing in the Goenka tradition (2001-2009), I eventually switched to the Mahasi noting doing initially a 3 weeks retreat in Thailand. I have since done more Mahasi style retreats including (and I can&amp;#039;t quite believe it as I write this now as it seems a long time ago and a rediculously long time to spend trying to crack the nut!) a 5 1/2 month stay at a Burmese monastery in Malaysia in 2012/13.&lt;br /&gt;I also did recently (July) did a 1 month retreat in Thailand. Followed just 3 weeks later with a 1 week retreat in Manchester, U.K. at a branch center of Panditaramas (so that I could meet the Sayadaw there and obtain a recommendation). So, this has all duly been done and I made my initial inquiries for the 60-day course in May. Now accepted.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;However, after all this I am now beginning to think that what I really need to do is develop good concentration and attain at least 1st Jhana so that I can then have a realistic chance of gaining some insight into the 3Cs.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I read in another thread (sorry can&amp;#039;t give a link) some time ago, a question someone posed about going to Pa Auk in order to develop good concentration before then going to Panditarama. However, he was advised it would perhaps be distruptive to change not only centres but also techniques mid-way through a long time spent on retreat. He was also told that if he spent a long period of time at the Panditarama centre he would build up good concentration anyhow.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Now maybe that is true for some people. But after some long retreats in the Mahasi tradition and yes I have gotten something out of it and also I have developed some concentration along the way but NOT ENOUGH to gain insight into the 3Cs. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Therefore, perhaps rather than going 60-days at U Pandita&amp;#039;s place, I might be better off going to Pa Auk. I have also recently started Kasina practice in order to attain 1st Jhana through it. However, it is early days and so far it&amp;#039;s just a couple of hours a day and I need some serious momentum such as a self retreat with 10-15 hours a day for 2-4 weeks which I&amp;#039;m thinking to organise somewhere in the coming weeks...&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Not sure I&amp;#039;ve even posted this in the right category.....&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Any comments welcome,&lt;br /&gt;Thanks, Piers</description> <pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2014 21:03:42 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5590456</guid> <dc:creator>Piers M</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-23T21:03:42Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Myanmar Visa Questions</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5585296</link> <description>I have been recently informed (by an administrator in America who helps process the applications for the 60-day meditation course held in Panditarama, Myanmar, each year) that it is relatively quick and painless process these days at the embassy in Bangkok and takes approx. &lt;u&gt;2-3 working days&lt;/u&gt;. If you decide to do this and to avoid any complications/frustrations then make sure you check for any possible hiccups such as finding out when national holidays are in Myanmar and also of course in Thailand as the embassy will most likely be closed on such days. You are also advised to take extra passport photos with you (if you plan to extend or overstay your visa) at least 12-14. (Even otherwise it is probably a good idea to have a few spare ones just in case). I have heard that some centres may not accept you to stay there on a tourist visa - so be sure to find out first. Also, I have heard that many guesthouses will not be happy to have you stay if you have the wrong kind of visa or more particularly if your visa has expired. Anyone else out there who knows more about this please chime in!&lt;br /&gt;All the best,&lt;br /&gt;Piers</description> <pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2014 20:47:45 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5585296</guid> <dc:creator>Piers M</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-16T20:47:45Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Myanmar Visa Questions</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5585180</link> <description>Thanks Matthew and Simon,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;These were just the answers I was after!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Nick</description> <pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2014 15:40:16 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5585180</guid> <dc:creator>Nick Green</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-16T15:40:16Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Myanmar Visa Questions</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5584810</link> <description>You are not allowed to travel on a meditation visa. You need a sponsor letter. 3 years ago, the tourist visa length was 4 weeks. I don&amp;#039;t know if it changed.</description> <pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2014 23:38:07 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5584810</guid> <dc:creator>Simon T.</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-15T23:38:07Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Myanmar Visa Questions</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5584769</link> <description>I can&amp;#039;t speak to all of what you ask, because I haven&amp;#039;t left yet, but I have recently gone through the visa process.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;1. For a meditation visa, yes, you need a sponsorship letter. I have no idea if traveling around is allowed, too.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;2. A tourist visa has a limit of 3 weeks, I believe, but I don&amp;#039;t know whether the monastery will let you in or how they will react if you overstay. I *will* say that my meditation visa came with dates attached. I thought the visa was valid for 90 days in country, but I only received 70; no explanation was given, and since I hadn&amp;#039;t purchased tickets yet, they told me to come back once I got the tickets and they&amp;#039;d change the dates for me.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;3. I hear Feb/March is very lovely, and if you&amp;#039;re in Rangoon, I don&amp;#039;t believe mosquitos are a big problem.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;4. I&amp;#039;m going to Shwe Oo Min, but I&amp;#039;ve also heard Panditarama recommended. A friend of mine stayed there a decade ago. I hear Panditarama is mostly Mahasi-style noting, and is strict about rules. (My friend meditated in his room for one sitting because he wasn&amp;#039;t feeling well, and they sent a monk to ask him why he wasn&amp;#039;t in the hall.) &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I will also say that the whole process has taken way longer than I expected. Just getting a response from the travel agency responsible for the sponsorship letters took a month.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Good luck,&lt;br /&gt;Matthew</description> <pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2014 22:42:29 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5584769</guid> <dc:creator>Matthew Davidson</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-15T22:42:29Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Metta-Retreat 2.-9. Oct 2014, with Visu Teoh, at Pauenhof in West Germa</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5579465</link> <description>Sounds like an interesting retreat. I was looking into Metta retreats when i found this post. I am unable to attend the retreat in Germany, but found that Visu Teoh is doing a 2 day retreat  (27/28 september in the Netherlands). I will attend the 2 day retreat.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thanks for the tip &lt;img alt="emoticon" src="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dho-theme/images/emoticons/smile.gif" &gt; !</description> <pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2014 17:17:00 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5579465</guid> <dc:creator>Pjotr Hill</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-11T17:17:00Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Metta-Retreat 2.-9. Oct 2014, with Visu Teoh, at Pauenhof in West Germa</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5579412</link> <description>I already wanted to go to Pauenhof, it´s close to where I live.&lt;br /&gt;Maybe we´ll see each other there if I can make it this time.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Cheers&lt;br /&gt;Sven</description> <pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2014 09:13:42 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5579412</guid> <dc:creator>S. Pro</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-11T09:13:42Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: stream entry in Thailand</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5577122</link> <description>Hi Pier,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This a good review of Wat Ram Poeng. It was a very poor choice of words of mine and more based on my first retreat there. Iwas there 3 years ago and again this winter. &lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;Ajahn Suphan was out of the country on my first retreat and the replacing monk wasn&amp;#039;t much into teaching, it seems.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;  I&amp;#039;m pretty sure &lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;Ajahn Suphan is considered an arahant and he gave me a very good vibe and I should have noted that.  I had a few interviews with him during my last retreat and he speak very little English but he understand it. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I love the monk at Doi Suthep. He is one of a kind. Some other monk told my wife that even monks think of him as being on the crazy side. He doesn&amp;#039;t have much social filter, talking of never have experienced sex and so forth, and his dharma talk are all over the place but following his train of thought is a good meditation. His life is completely dedicated to teaching and he don&amp;#039;t want to have anything to do with ceremonial stuff. Possibly his English has improved since 2010 as it was now good enough to answer my questions and he would give me important precision.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Doi Suthep might be more of a place to learn the technique and explore it in a relaxing environment without too much pressure. As you said, people don&amp;#039;t practice very hard and it&amp;#039;s mostly backpacker wanting to experience meditation, some staying only for 5 days. Still, I found other meditators less distracting there than at WRP, where I really had to isolate myself.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt; WRP is more about really pushing the thing. Maybe a critic I have about the technique and the way that it is taught, it&amp;#039;s that there are so many steps to it and they are being added at such a fast pace, if we are entering the retreat in a difficult stage (think Re-Observation) it&amp;#039;s too much to handle. The mind is not receptive to form the habit of each of those steps as it depends on memory recall at each breath. It&amp;#039;s a technique that package a lot. It&amp;#039;s like combining noting of the 6 senses, nothing of the breath, relaxation work, energy work, and counting backward all at the same time. Despite what I said about Chom Thong, if someone want to learn it more &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;progressively it would be a better choice as there is no limit on the lengh of the stay (there is no perfect center). My advice would be to learn the technique in Doi Suthep and then move to one of the other center to practice it well.</description> <pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2014 00:24:34 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5577122</guid> <dc:creator>Simon T.</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-05T00:24:34Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: stream entry in Thailand</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5577049</link> <description>Hi Simon,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Simon T.:&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Arial"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;1. Wat Ram Poeng (&lt;strong&gt;max 28 days&lt;/strong&gt;)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Arial"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Arial"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;When there 2 times. &lt;strong&gt;The monks aren&amp;#039;t very nice to be honest&lt;/strong&gt; (I&amp;#039;m not the only one saying that) and I found their instructions lacking. Andrew got stream entry there and offer a good review: &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/4193658&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I really like Wat Ram Poeng and had a positive time there even though I did also find it tough as well. I liked the energy of the place even though yes it is a big busy noisy monastery with lots of other stuff going on. But if you keep you head down you can just get on with it and use all the noise as part of the practice anyhow. I think a lot of the positive vibe comes from the Abbot Ajahn Suphan who has a really great energy about him. Although I didn&amp;#039;t interact with him much (I reported to him once) and I&amp;#039;m not sure how good his English is, you can see he is a man so at ease with himself and life whether he is just walking alone through the grounds or giving a Dhamma talk to 300 odd people on Buddha Day marking start of rains retreat.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I went there last in July for 30 full days plus a day either side when arriving/leaving. They didn&amp;#039;t question me at all about the length I wrote down to stay. It says on their website that &lt;strong&gt;you can stay for 6 weeks&lt;/strong&gt; and you need approval if you want longer (which I&amp;#039;m sure would be fine if you&amp;#039;re already there and have &amp;#034;behaved yourself&amp;#034; ie not freaked out). There was another guy there for 40 days (if you do the basic 26-day course you can come back multiple times to do their 10 day &amp;#034;advanced course&amp;#034;). The enrolment monk is a bit rude or eccentric or both depending on how you look at it but you don&amp;#039;t deal much with him once you&amp;#039;re there. At least I didn&amp;#039;t have cause to. Basically as long as you stick to the rules and don&amp;#039;t talk he won&amp;#039;t have a problem with you.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The monk who gives the daily interviews for foreigners was pleasant enough. He looks like a Westerner (his mother was German and father Thai) and is fluent in Thai, German and English. Yes, you have to follow the script as it were and as I&amp;#039;m not an advanced practitioner I&amp;#039;m not sure how helpful he would be if you were having higher stages of insight. He was good to me and yes he pushed me to sleep only 4 hours a night and also prepare me for the determination (3 days and nights continuous practice without sleep - I went 86 hours!!! so impressed myself in that regard because it&amp;#039;s quite a process to &amp;#034;force&amp;#034; yourself through). He also told me that he had been meditating since he was about 13, and that he ordained when he was 38 (he is 42) and during the first 9 months as a monk he was on retreat. So, read into that what you will about his possible insight attainments. I&amp;#039;d like to think Ajahn Suphan would not have given him such a responsibility for teaching unless he actually had reached 1st path or beyond...&lt;br /&gt;But I&amp;#039;ve no idea.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;When were you at Wat Ram Poeng Simon?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Arial"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;Simon T.:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Arial"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;3. Doi Suthep (max 21 days)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Arial"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Arial"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;http://www.doisuthep.com/?p=80&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Arial"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Arial"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;It&amp;#039;s the same technique but taught in a shorter time. I like the schedule of Doi Sutep. There is a &lt;strong&gt;Dharma Talk at 5:30am&lt;/strong&gt;, nothing profond but entertaining and its helps me starts my day. There is chanting at 5pm followed by a short Dharma Talk. There is only one monk that do the interview, Dharma talk and chanting and he is really dedicated, but &lt;strong&gt;a bit crazy (in a funny way)&lt;/strong&gt;. &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I was at Doi Suthep in 2010. Unless it&amp;#039;s changed the Dhamma talk was given then at &lt;strong&gt;8 am. &lt;/strong&gt;And if it&amp;#039;s the same teacher I had back then still then yes he is rather eccentric and his English is not very good but he told his stories with such warmth and heart that it was very enjoyable. I didn&amp;#039;t quite know what the heck I was up to as I&amp;#039;d only really done Goenka till that point, so I didn&amp;#039;t figure out the idea behind the technique at that time. I also felt quite alone there as although there were a few other foreigners around noone seemed to be making the effort to practice continuously. And many were talking too. It wasn&amp;#039;t at all strict. Not sure why it is 21 days basic there and 26 days just a few km away at WRP for the same technique. Also, the determination seemed to be optional at Doi Suthep when I was there (I still tried it then but had much more difficulty and bailed out on the 3rd night) whereas at WRP it seemed to be mandatory.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Simon T.:&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Arial"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;The weather is also nicer at Doi Suthep.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;Depends what you like I guess. I was there in November/December and being up a mountainside it really got quite cold for Thailand and also very windy at times and because the glass windows (the slatted time) didn&amp;#039;t shut properly it cut through my room so I had to wrap up warm at night. No need for fans!! However, they had nearly finished building a new accomodation block, dining hall and meditation hall. So, the battered old halls and rooms I was in are probably not used any more.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The temperature in WRP which is just a few km West of old Chiang Mai city was not too hot in July. Some rain at times. As for mosquitos, well that&amp;#039;s to be expected in Asia. The rooms and the hall all have mesh protectors on the windows so it&amp;#039;s really not a problem in the buildings.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Based on my experiences I would definitely recommend WRP as a place to practice Mahasi style. Oh yes, you only get one Dhamma talk a week given by a really lovely Bhikkhuni (yes a fully ordained nun in Thailand wearing brown robes!). She speaks English well and although the talks are based at beginners (and most seem to not have done much meditation before I think) I still found them endearing talks because they come from the heart and are not dry! I think you could probably see her too if you really felt the need (or were perhaps having some problems with your Dhamma practice there).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I also wouldn&amp;#039;t rule out Doi Suthep. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It seems a bit random at any of these places (having read others comments) about how good a teacher you&amp;#039;ll get.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Arial"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;Piers&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description> <pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2014 20:51:42 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5577049</guid> <dc:creator>Piers M</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-04T20:51:42Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: stream entry in Thailand</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5576959</link> <description>Hi Simon,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;thanks for the explanation. It sounds really unlucky (as I was with the main teachers). I can imagine now the situation... &lt;br /&gt;It happened also to me that somebody was sitting on my report and started to ask (maybe on 2 days max) but the &lt;br /&gt;main teacher was always there. I was also annoyed by the questions first. It took me some days to get over my doubts but later&lt;br /&gt;the whole thing just worked out well. The technique they are using helped my practice for sure.&lt;br /&gt;But yes I can understand your point. Good that you mentioned.</description> <pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2014 16:40:36 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5576959</guid> <dc:creator>Noting Monkey</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-04T16:40:36Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: stream entry in Thailand</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5576941</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;That surely give a lot more options. How is your experience with monks as a layperson in Thailand?&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;I feel that I&amp;#039;m not used to interacting with monks yet!!!  I would say though that at the two centers I went to so far, a lay practitioner did not have so many chances to interact with them, except during the daily interviews.  During this past retreat, I found myself interacting more with a laywoman, who serves as a volunteer to help run the retreat center and give basic instructions.  She definitely played a big role at the center and seemed to know what she was talking about very well.  She does not resume a role of a teacher though, but act more like staff; this is something very different from my experience at IMS where staff almost had no roles with our practices.  This seems to be the trend at many retreat centers in Thailand.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;With that being said, I don&amp;#039;t think the monk, who was our teacher, acts like he was superior to us in any ways.  In fact, he was very kind and friendly to us and want to connect with us, and I could feel a lot of metta and compassion from him.  During my daily life now, there is also another monk in Thai forest tradition coming to teach at the university I&amp;#039;m working at.  He also was very kind as well.  Yes, it might be a little difficult to get really close and be the best buddy/ friend as normal people would think of, but I feel that all my monk teachers give good suggestions/ warnings on this path and are friendly enough.  That&amp;#039;s all I expect from them, I guess.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;em&gt;I hope the effort to revive the Bhikkhunis will succeed in reversing the ban on their ordination. It would be a good start to reform the more conservative and traditional aspects of the traditions.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Of course, It would be great if they can revive the Bhikkhunis, and in fact, there are Bhikkhunies already fighting for this movement in Thailand.  I somehow doubt though that Bhikkhunis will truly be accepted by Bhikkhu community any time soon.  I found lots of religious places here very conservative, and many centers are very conservative, e.g. females still need to wear sarong during retreat, and everyone has to dress the same way, even though it has nothing to do with the practice.  I doubt that the conservative cultures/ thoughts will disappear any time soon.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt; I forgot that Chanmyay also have a center in Thailand. Chanmyay is straight Mahasi technique. &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;chanmyay&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;oversea&amp;#x2e;htm"&gt;http://www.chanmyay.org/oversea.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;Thanks for pointing this out.  It seemed the center is very closed to Bangkok too.  I will definitely check this out.</description> <pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2014 15:27:51 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5576941</guid> <dc:creator>Julie V</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-04T15:27:51Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: stream entry in Thailand</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5576906</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Julie V:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;Simon and Noting Monkey,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thank you for all the detailed description about the center.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I actually speak Thai, so I guess my situation might be a little different from yours.  That&amp;#039;s a reason that I want to stick with practicing in Thailand, even when my previous teacher in the US recommended that I went to practice in Myarmar.  In this way, I don&amp;#039;t need a translator.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Chom Tong center does sound interesting.  The small Mahasi center in Saraburi I went to was quite similar in terms of daily interviews, but it might be good to have a change once in a while too.  I wonder if monks will interact with lay Thais the same way though, which is probably something I will have to find out for myself.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;That surely give a lot more options. How is your experience with monks as a layperson in Thailand? I hope the effort to revive the Bhikkhunis will succeed in reversing the ban on their ordination. It would be a good start to reform the more conservative and traditional aspects of the traditions.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt; I forgot that Chanmyay also have a center in Thailand. Chanmyay is straight Mahasi technique. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;chanmyay&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;oversea&amp;#x2e;htm"&gt;http://www.chanmyay.org/oversea.htm&lt;/a&gt;</description> <pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2014 13:44:16 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5576906</guid> <dc:creator>Simon T.</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-04T13:44:16Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: stream entry in Thailand</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5576899</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Noting Monkey:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;Hi Julie,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I was there 4 years ago and last year. I can tell only positiv about the teachers and yes they can guide you on the higher path. (ok I can speak for teachers I used to work with) &lt;br /&gt;Some facts:&lt;br /&gt;- they are not open for discussions. Can feel extremly disappointing when you want to tell your stuff and they don&amp;#039;t really pay attention and only give the answere &amp;#034;ok nice, good, but did you note it?&amp;#034; &amp;#034;be more mindful...&amp;#034;. Even if you tell that you are SE or higher path they won&amp;#039;t blink ones or congratulate for your previous experiences. (which is I think not a bad thing...I was very thankful for this after...) &lt;br /&gt;- you have to follow the technique and report daily&lt;br /&gt;- they are only interested in one thing: what have you experienced in the last 24 hours in walking&amp;amp;sitting meditation&lt;br /&gt;- no other techniques are allowed&lt;br /&gt;- so this is not a place where you can go and keep going with your technique you were practicing before! It is important to keep in mind&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;- this things maybe will give you the feeling that they don&amp;#039;t take you seriously (I got the same. But if you can overcome your doubt, anger, disappointment etc, and come back to the present then you will see that their only goal is to make your practice going strait forward) &lt;br /&gt;- if your previous practice was different maybe you will have hard time to follow the instructions (which is I think normal as many doubt will come to you...)&lt;br /&gt;They have 21 days &amp;#034;basic&amp;#034; course and after 10 days courses. They of course recommend to do the full course others you won&amp;#039;t get the full benefit. (maybe they are more open for discussions when you finished the course, but not before and between)&lt;br /&gt;So I say it is good to give a try if you don&amp;#039;t have problem with the facts above.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Hope it helps&lt;br /&gt;NM&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&amp;#039;m glad you had a different experience that mine. I might just have been unlucky and ended up going there when the main teachers were away in their home country. As my comments are a bit inflammatory, I should explain how I end up having such opinion of the place. For most part of the time I have been there (12 days) I received my instructions from 3 differents students plus 1 teacher, and it was sometimes contradictory. It&amp;#039;s seems a common practice in the Mahasi tradition to not discuss the stages with students (but some teachers discuss them), as knowing too much about the stages can mess up with the instructions. The irony in my case is that I wasn&amp;#039;t very familiar with the stages at that time, and I was unkowningly in re-observation when I entered Chom Tong and for most part of the retreat. So, while I was working my ass off and had occasional foray in equanimity (I figured that out much later), they were expecting me to have pre-A&amp;amp;P symptoms (keeping asking about if I&amp;#039;m seeing lights, for one). I will not get into the details of the kind of confusion in instructions this has led to. So, as much as student scripting is said to be possible, teacher scripting is also a thing. My inquiries about if indeed there was such things as difficult stages (the teacher outright denied that such difficult stages could be encountered)   but this is how the young Anakin Skywalker in me became Dark Nigher, and in a fist of Re-Ob frustration left the retreat and I vowed myself revenge and now advocate for open discussion about the stages.</description> <pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2014 13:06:28 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5576899</guid> <dc:creator>Simon T.</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-04T13:06:28Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: stream entry in Thailand</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5576867</link> <description>Simon and Noting Monkey,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thank you for all the detailed description about the center.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I actually speak Thai, so I guess my situation might be a little different from yours.  That&amp;#039;s a reason that I want to stick with practicing in Thailand, even when my previous teacher in the US recommended that I went to practice in Myarmar.  In this way, I don&amp;#039;t need a translator.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Chom Tong center does sound interesting.  The small Mahasi center in Saraburi I went to was quite similar in terms of daily interviews, but it might be good to have a change once in a while too.  I wonder if monks will interact with lay Thais the same way though, which is probably something I will have to find out for myself.</description> <pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2014 09:28:38 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5576867</guid> <dc:creator>Julie V</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-04T09:28:38Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: stream entry in Thailand</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5576811</link> <description>Hi Julie,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I was there 4 years ago and last year. I can tell only positiv about the teachers and yes they can guide you on the higher path. (ok I can speak for teachers I used to work with) &lt;br /&gt;Some facts:&lt;br /&gt;- they are not open for discussions. Can feel extremly disappointing when you want to tell your stuff and they don&amp;#039;t really pay attention and only give the answere &amp;#034;ok nice, good, but did you note it?&amp;#034; &amp;#034;be more mindful...&amp;#034;. Even if you tell that you are SE or higher path they won&amp;#039;t blink ones or congratulate for your previous experiences. (which is I think not a bad thing...I was very thankful for this after...) &lt;br /&gt;- you have to follow the technique and report daily&lt;br /&gt;- they are only interested in one thing: what have you experienced in the last 24 hours in walking&amp;amp;sitting meditation&lt;br /&gt;- no other techniques are allowed&lt;br /&gt;- so this is not a place where you can go and keep going with your technique you were practicing before! It is important to keep in mind&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;- this things maybe will give you the feeling that they don&amp;#039;t take you seriously (I got the same. But if you can overcome your doubt, anger, disappointment etc, and come back to the present then you will see that their only goal is to make your practice going strait forward) &lt;br /&gt;- if your previous practice was different maybe you will have hard time to follow the instructions (which is I think normal as many doubt will come to you...)&lt;br /&gt;They have 21 days &amp;#034;basic&amp;#034; course and after 10 days courses. They of course recommend to do the full course others you won&amp;#039;t get the full benefit. (maybe they are more open for discussions when you finished the course, but not before and between)&lt;br /&gt;So I say it is good to give a try if you don&amp;#039;t have problem with the facts above.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Hope it helps&lt;br /&gt;NM</description> <pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2014 05:46:00 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5576811</guid> <dc:creator>Noting Monkey</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-04T05:46:00Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: stream entry in Thailand</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5576778</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Julie V:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;Another place in Chiang Mai that used Mahasi&amp;#039;s technique:  Tanag Laenang - http://tananglaenang.wordpress.com/  (Sorry, but there seemed to be only Thai on their website, but the place looks really nice.  You can use google translate, I guess.) &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This is the place where I have been interested in going, but it&amp;#039;s simply too far away from BKK where I live.  It seemed to be in the similar lineage as the place I went to in July in Saraburi, which was very nice and had knowledgeable teacher.  I don&amp;#039;t know how this place in Chiang Mai is though, as I have never been there myself.  I also don&amp;#039;t know whether there will be any translators for foreigners.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I think I know what you talked about &lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;Wat Ram Poeng.  I have been to another place in that same tradition, and I really did not like their attitudes and their approaches to practice at all.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;EDITED: The last paragraph about Wat Ram Poeng was from my wrong memory about different lineages in Thailand.  I don&amp;#039;t know anything about the practice at Wat Ram Poeng.  (There is a comment about it after this, so I don&amp;#039;t want to delete it.)&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;My comment was specifically about the international center run by laypeople that is attached to Wat Chom Tong, and depending on the teacher someone get when he is there, as there are more than one and they are not all living there in all year long for most, your millage migh varies. If you want a review of Wat Ram Poeng, Andrea B. wrote the most accurate report on it:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;http://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/message/4193658&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Since you are in Bangkok, flying to Yangon to go to a place like Chanmyay Yeiktha or any other center in the Mahasi tradition in Myanmar, would give you a better chance of having an English-speaking monk that will also take you seriously. Chanmyay Yeiktha also have a center in Singapore. Getting to MBMC might be another option. Without speaking Thai, finding a good teacher in Thailand remains difficult.</description> <pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2014 02:09:34 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5576778</guid> <dc:creator>Simon T.</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-04T02:09:34Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: stream entry in Thailand</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5576763</link> <description>Hi Noting Monkey,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Chom Tong sounds kind of interesting to me now, and considering that I&amp;#039;m living in Thailand, maybe I will try to go there to sit some years just for a change.  I have some questions about the center though: When were you there last?  How were the teachers when you were there?  If I&amp;#039;m working on a higher path, would they be able to guide me effectively?</description> <pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2014 01:35:54 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5576763</guid> <dc:creator>Julie V</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-04T01:35:54Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: stream entry in Thailand</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5576454</link> <description>I  would recommend Chom Tong if you still looking for places in Thailand in Mahasi tradition. Ok the way they teach is a bit different but effective as you have daily interviews with the teacher. I heard they have also english speaking monks you can practice with if you like.&lt;br /&gt;Also 4-5 bigger meditation halls so enough space, rooms are good, food is good.  </description> <pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2014 03:54:30 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5576454</guid> <dc:creator>Noting Monkey</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-03T03:54:30Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: stream entry in Thailand</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5576305</link> <description>Sorry for being unclear.  I did not mean their approaches like what you said; that&amp;#039;s the general approach for all Mahasi&amp;#039;s tradition.  I mean (from my weekend-long experience in Luang Po Jaran&amp;#039;s tradition that was not at Wat Ram Poeng), they did not emphasize being present enough with everything you do.  They only emphasized sitting and walking meditation in a very specific form, also with heavy emphasis on body.  Not much was mentioned about the other three foundations of mindfulness.  Also, there are usually so many people, making the place extremely crowded.  You can take 3 short steps during walking meditation (if you are lucky), and you have to turn around.  Although honestly, what turned me away from them was actually not the conditions of the place, it was that I did not trust the teacher.  The person did not say anything to convince me that he knew what he was talking about.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;EDITED&lt;br /&gt;I should not have said things without checking carefully.  I double-checked, and Wat Ram Poeng is not in the tradition of Luang Po Jaran.  Whatever I said above about the place is completely irrelevant, and I know nothing about the practice at Wat Ram Poeng.  Sorry about this.&lt;/strong&gt;</description> <pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2014 23:28:29 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5576305</guid> <dc:creator>Julie V</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-02T23:28:29Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: stream entry in Thailand</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5576294</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;I think I know what you talked about &lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;Wat Ram Poeng.  I have been to another place in that same tradition, and I really did not like their attitudes and their approaches to practice at all.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;Their approaches to the practice is pretty strait forward present moment oriented: &amp;#034;Note (also using labeling) whatever experience arise then bring your attention back to the body (posture, breath, touching points)...&amp;#034;&lt;br /&gt;Ok can feel a little bit dry but if you able to follow the instructions then good progress is possible. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;NM&lt;br /&gt; &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description> <pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2014 23:10:42 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5576294</guid> <dc:creator>Noting Monkey</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-02T23:10:42Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: stream entry in Thailand</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5576172</link> <description>Another place in Chiang Mai that used Mahasi&amp;#039;s technique:  Tanag Laenang - http://tananglaenang.wordpress.com/  (Sorry, but there seemed to be only Thai on their website, but the place looks really nice.  You can use google translate, I guess.) &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This is the place where I have been interested in going, but it&amp;#039;s simply too far away from BKK where I live.  It seemed to be in the similar lineage as the place I went to in July in Saraburi, which was very nice and had knowledgeable teacher.  I don&amp;#039;t know how this place in Chiang Mai is though, as I have never been there myself.  I also don&amp;#039;t know whether there will be any translators for foreigners.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I think I know what you talked about &lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;Wat Ram Poeng.  I have been to another place in that same tradition, and I really did not like their attitudes and their approaches to practice at all.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;EDITED: The last paragraph about Wat Ram Poeng was from my wrong memory about different lineages in Thailand.  I don&amp;#039;t know anything about the practice at Wat Ram Poeng.  (There is a comment about it after this, so I don&amp;#039;t want to delete it.)&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description> <pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2014 12:06:10 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5576172</guid> <dc:creator>Julie V</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-02T12:06:10Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: stream entry in Thailand</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5575884</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Eudoxos .:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;I know this is late for you perhaps. There is an international meditation center in Wat Chom Tong, about 60km sothwards from Chiang Mai. The monastery is lead by Ajahn Tong, and the basic course culminating in stream-entry takes around 25 days (they compress it down to 15-21 days in Europe - see e.g. the excellent Dhammacari center in Germany). The center is in Chom Tong described here: &lt;strong&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/Main/Chom+Tong+Insight+Meditation+Center &lt;strong&gt;&lt;/strong&gt; . You find the contact at http://www.northernvipassana.org/about.html if needed.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I have been to all 3 centre in Chiang Mai that teach the Chom Tong method (Wat Chom Tong, Doi Suthep, Wa Ram Poeng). They all have their plus and cons. My main issue with Wat Chom Tong at the time is that the teachings were provided by laypeople who didn&amp;#039;t have much experience and there was a somewhat cult-ish spirit around Ajahn Tong that had developed there.  My wife and I went back there some time ago and discussed with a western guy that just ordained after spending 6 months there. I know it&amp;#039;s bad etiquette to diagnose others but still, it was clear as daylight that the guy hadn&amp;#039;t crossed the A&amp;amp;P yet and was simply ridding on the A&amp;amp;P stage bliss. When he told me who was teaching him it didn&amp;#039;t surprise me. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Don&amp;#039;t get me wrong, Chom Tong is a very important master and there is no doubt that there are good teachers under his umbrella. But there are issues with the development of the laypeople side of the monastary and I hope they will figure out a way to sort this out.</description> <pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2014 17:29:51 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5575884</guid> <dc:creator>Simon T.</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-01T17:29:51Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: stream entry in Thailand</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5575725</link> <description>I know this is late for you perhaps. There is an international meditation center in Wat Chom Tong, about 60km sothwards from Chiang Mai. The monastery is lead by Ajahn Tong, and the basic course culminating in stream-entry takes around 25 days (they compress it down to 15-21 days in Europe - see e.g. the excellent Dhammacari center in Germany). The center is in Chom Tong described here: &lt;strong&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/Main/Chom+Tong+Insight+Meditation+Center &lt;strong&gt;&lt;/strong&gt; . You find the contact at http://www.northernvipassana.org/about.html if needed.</description> <pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2014 08:33:39 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5575725</guid> <dc:creator>Eudoxos .</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-09-01T08:33:39Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Metta-Retreat 2.-9. Oct 2014, with Visu Teoh, at Pauenhof in West Germa</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5575597</link> <description>I spent three days with Visu in July, on a Metta retreat (which was longer, but I had no time for more).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;He is one of the most approachable teachers I&amp;#039;ve ever met, has a great deal of his own practice (partiularly in Vipassana, IIRC he trained mainly in Burma), knows the theory damn well also, although he does not talk about it much, unless asked. He is also reasonably critical about some Theravada traditions (e.g. the way women are approached, or how healthy it is to eat chocolate all the time). His English is delightful, very rich in vocabulary. The mix of metta with some vipassana was refreshing and very useful. I was translating for him, so I could see with how much compassion and true interest he was listening to all students. Next time I try the whole course.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Highly recommended.</description> <pubDate>Sun, 31 Aug 2014 10:36:51 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5575597</guid> <dc:creator>Eudoxos .</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-31T10:36:51Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Prerequisites For Panditarama (or alternatives)?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5575464</link> <description>&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;After further consideration I’ve decided to do the retreat at Panditarama Lumbini under the guidance of Sayadaw U Vivekanada. I’ve communicated with him regarding this several weeks ago and he’s invited me to practice at Lumbini for an initial period of one month, with the option to extend it another month if my teachers agree.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In a couple weeks I fly to Kathmandu. For about three weeks I’ll do a trek in the Annapurna region of the Himalayas after which I’ll head to Lumbini for the retreat. I’ve allotted a maximum retreat duration of 100 days.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thanks for all the input to great input to make this happen!</description> <pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2014 23:40:55 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5575464</guid> <dc:creator>Monsoon Frog</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-30T23:40:55Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>Metta-Retreat 2.-9. Oct 2014, with Visu Teoh, at Pauenhof in West Germany</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5571563</link> <description>In October 2014, there will be a 7-day-Metta retreat at Pauenhof centre in West Germany from October 2nd to 9th.&lt;br /&gt;It&amp;#039;s led by Visu Teoh. I don&amp;#039;t know the guy yet, but his writings/biodata indicate that he probably knows what he&amp;#039;s doing.&lt;br /&gt;http://visuteoh.net/teachings/metta-meditation-instructions.html&lt;br /&gt;http://visuteoh.net/biodata.html&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Here&amp;#039;s the description of the retreat in german:&lt;br /&gt;http://pauenhof.de/blog2/retreatskurse-2013/&lt;br /&gt;And a shorter version in english:&lt;br /&gt;http://pauenhof.de/blog2/suedlichesouthern-tradition/visu-teohvisu-teohvisu-teoh/&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The talks/interviews will be in English, and there will be a German translation.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&amp;#039;ll be there to deepen my Metta practice and get a perspective on Metta which is probably slightly different than that of Bhante Sujato in order to improve my general intuition on what this is all about.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Does anyone know the guy? Is anyone else going there?</description> <pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2014 08:12:18 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5571563</guid> <dc:creator>bernd the broter</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-21T08:12:18Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>retreat centers Sri Lanka &amp;/or Myanmar</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5570853</link> <description>Looking for recommendations for a Mahasi retreat center in either Sri Lanka or Myanmar. I had to change my retreat dates from Nov-Feb until Feb-May and the teacher where I was going will be traveling for at least half of my retreat time so I&amp;#039;m looking for an alternative. Weather is a consideration but not the primary one. The quality of the teacher (I have studied with U Vivekananda for a 90 day retreat last year) and access to clear English interviews and instructions are most important.&lt;br /&gt;Thanks for any help.</description> <pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2014 22:59:07 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5570853</guid> <dc:creator>Steve Katona</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-19T22:59:07Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Malaysian Buddhist Meditation Centre (MBMC) questions</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5570565</link> <description>Thanks Daniel, have just read wiki entry here on DhO and a quick look at their website. Hadn&amp;#039;t seen it before and it looks very good. If anyone has recently been would appreciate any other reviews (and/or for MBMC).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Cheers,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Nick</description> <pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2014 21:40:32 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5570565</guid> <dc:creator>Nick Green</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-18T21:40:32Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Malaysian Buddhist Meditation Centre (MBMC) questions</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5569966</link> <description>If you have the time and are interested in traveling, consider Panditarama Lumbini, which gets very good reviews these days and has a very good teacher.</description> <pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2014 07:36:32 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5569966</guid> <dc:creator>Daniel M. Ingram</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-17T07:36:32Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>Malaysian Buddhist Meditation Centre (MBMC) questions</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5569687</link> <description> &lt;br /&gt;Early next year I will be able to take 5 weeks off work and plan to use most of the time on retreat. Apart from a weekend at Satipanya retreat centre (here in Shropshire, UK) I’ve done little formal Mahasi style retreats and would like to use the opportunity to do a longer one. I’m currently looking at MBMC in Penang and have been impressed by their web-site as well Daniel’s keen write up in MCTB. However, looking at the wiki on this site there is a note about the ‘variability in teacher availability’.&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;Can I ask does anyone know how old this note in the wiki is and if the situation has changed? Has anyone been recently? As I’ve done plenty of retreats here in the UK including three months last year (with Triratna at Vajraloka in North Wales and solitary retreats) I’m confident that I can apply myself to the schedule and just get on with it, with or without much teacher input. However, it would be good to hear about MBMC if anyone has just been.&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;Also, I plan to go towards the end of January and will be there during Chinese New Year (on 19 Feb). However, I imagine that so long one is already at the centre, there should be little to no disruption of practice? Or does MBMC celebrate this in anyway?!&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;Thanks in advance for any help,&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;Nick</description> <pubDate>Sat, 16 Aug 2014 11:28:55 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5569687</guid> <dc:creator>Nick Green</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-16T11:28:55Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Buddhayana Forest Retreat</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5568036</link> <description>yes, I was recently there and had a wonderful stay. Read my review of it here:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;tibetan-mantra-art&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;buddhayana-retreat&amp;#x2e;html"&gt;http://tibetan-mantra-art.com/buddhayana-retreat.html&lt;/a&gt;</description> <pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2014 16:09:36 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5568036</guid> <dc:creator>stephen</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-13T16:09:36Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: good place for a solitary in Asia?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5563260</link> <description>Hi Sadalsuud,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I have no direct experience but four things came to my mind. Maybe they are a good start for further research.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;First one is the american monk &lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;next-life&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;about-ajahn&amp;#x2f;"&gt;Ajahn Sumano Bhikkhu&lt;/a&gt; who lives in the Double-Eyed Cave Retreat, at Pak Chong in Thailand&amp;#039;s Khao Yai National Park. I saw some interviews and it looks pretty solitary. But I&amp;#039;m not sure if he welcomes long-time guests.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Second is the &lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;antaiji&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x3f;lang&amp;#x3d;de"&gt;Antaiji monastery&lt;/a&gt; in Japan. The abbot is a very nice guy from Germany. But it would probably be too far away for you?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Third one is a &lt;a href="https&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;youtube&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;watch&amp;#x3f;v&amp;#x3d;FumyvVOVbaY"&gt;documentary&lt;/a&gt; on hermits in the chinese Zhongnan Mountain Forest Park that I watched a few months ago. Looks very nice but the trip would probably take too long. And it&amp;#039;s probably very tough to contact anyone up there.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Fourth is Ajan Brahm. He very often travels to Singapor and the contiguos countries, as far as I know. And he has spend some time in hermitage around that area. Maybe you contact him or his students via the &lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;cms&amp;#x2e;bodhinyana&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2e;au&amp;#x2f;"&gt;Bodhinyana Monastery website&lt;/a&gt; or the &lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;community&amp;#x2e;dhammaloka&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2e;au"&gt;Dhammaloka forum community&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Have a great trip!</description> <pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2014 11:58:07 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5563260</guid> <dc:creator>Andreas Thef</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-01T11:58:07Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>good place for a solitary in Asia?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5563235</link> <description>Hey guys,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&amp;#039;m going to Singapore for a wedding late December and would like to do 2 months silent solitary Jan-Feb before returning to the UK in March...&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Ideally a cute little hut in the mountains where it&amp;#039;s super quiet and they drop you food to cook each week?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Anyone been anywhere good? I&amp;#039;m not particularly associated with any meditative tradition.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Also I don&amp;#039;t mind where I go, could be SE Asia, India, etc. No mosquitos would be preferable I guess. I don&amp;#039;t mind if it&amp;#039;s not warm though.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;thanks for any advice.</description> <pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2014 10:04:41 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5563235</guid> <dc:creator>Sadalsuud Beta Aquarii</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-08-01T10:04:41Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Ajahn Tong (Mahasi-like) vipassana center in Prague, Oct-Dec 2014</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5553971</link> <description>i, for one, am happy that you posted.  thanks</description> <pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2014 10:58:24 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5553971</guid> <dc:creator>tom moylan</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-07-07T10:58:24Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>Ajahn Tong (Mahasi-like) vipassana center in Prague, Oct-Dec 2014</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5553725</link> <description>Hi everybody,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I am organizing a temporary &amp;#034;vipassana centre&amp;#034; in Prague between Oct-Dec 2014, in the Ajahn Tong tradition (Mahasi-like). There will be a teacher who was teaching in Thailand for 10 years (in Wat Chom Tong); accomodation, food is donation-based. The basic course in this tradition takes 21 days (plus minus) and is designed to go through the insight cycle up to fruition; for those who have done that, there is the possibility of a 10-day retreat. Signing up is possibile individually for any time the center will be open. Head to &lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;vipassana&amp;#x2e;doxos&amp;#x2e;eu&amp;#x2f;en"&gt;http://vipassana.doxos.eu/en&lt;/a&gt; for more.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;(I apologize if this forum is not really meant for such announcements.)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Cheers!</description> <pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2014 20:17:38 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5553725</guid> <dc:creator>Eudoxos .</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-07-06T20:17:38Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>shwe oo min forest center</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5553605</link> <description>Hello,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&amp;#039;m planning going to myanmar for 3 to 6 month intensive meditation.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A couple years ago I was at the Panditarama Forest Meditation Centre for 4 month.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Now I&amp;#039;m thinking about going back to Panditarama or try another centre?!?!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A friend of mine stayed at the shwe oo min forest centre for 3 month.&lt;br /&gt;He liked it very much.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I would like to know if someone has some retreatexperience at the shwe oo min forest centre and can give some advice?!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;What makes me also hesitate &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;1. I am a bit afraid that its going to be really crowded at panditarama during the 60-day retreat and I dont like that ?!&lt;br /&gt;(that means if its not too late for applying already and they are fully booked fo the dec/jan.-period ?!)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Does anyone attended a 60-day-retreat before and can tell how it is?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;2. My friend told me they are teaching cittanupassana at at shwe oo min.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Is it a big difference to mahasi-technique?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Any suggestions for other good Meditationscentres are very welcome!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thanks in advance!</description> <pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2014 11:54:47 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5553605</guid> <dc:creator>Andre d.</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-07-06T11:54:47Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Prerequisites For Panditarama (or alternatives)?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5550547</link> <description>Max, I understand the need to restrict a meditator&amp;#039;s practice to the system being taught.  I was clear in my application what my goal was. I want to learn and master the Mahasi system and through that achieve stream entry. Although I am an artist and climber I have no other goal right now than that, and everything in my life is being reshaped to make that happen. I’m not sure what I’d need to do to drive that point home to the application personnel. Anyway, it’s a mystery to me and I have extremely limited experience in how the world of meditation centers and monasteries operate. &lt;br /&gt;Although Myanmar sounds rad and it’d be cool to spend a couple days poking around, my goal is to apply myself to full-on meditation and not to touring around. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If in Nepal I&amp;#039;d like to have some exposure to the granduer of the mountians if at all possible, but again my gaol is to wear my ass down meditating. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thanks again for sharing your experiences it&amp;#039;s very helpful.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;em&gt;Edit: removed off topic content destined for another thread&lt;/em&gt;</description> <pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2014 23:52:00 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5550547</guid> <dc:creator>Monsoon Frog</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-06-25T23:52:00Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Prerequisites For Panditarama (or alternatives)?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5550523</link> <description>Frogger,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The email exchange you describe sounds odd. It&amp;#039;s likely that the person on the other end is a native english speaker, so I doubt it was a language issue. I&amp;#039;m also fairly confident that they would not expect you to do any kind of preliminary training or study prior to arriving, because they will provide you with comprehensive sitting and walking instructions on your first day. My guess is that they just want to be really certain that you are planning on following their instructions if you go there. Yogis are definitely not welcome to engage in other practices or modify the technique while staying at the center. I imagine they get a decent number of westerners who have done some other kind of meditation and think they know what&amp;#039;s up, and they want to nip that in the bud.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;One thing to point out about doing a retreat in Myanmar, which perhaps you have seen mentioned elsewhere, is that if you go there on a meditation visa (required for stays longer than 28 days), you are not supposed to travel for touristic purposes, at all. You would be able to see some sights in Rangoon when transiting into and out of the country, but that&amp;#039;s about it. The government considers you a liability of the monastic institution sponsoring your visa, so they&amp;#039;re the ones that take the heat if there is a problem. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Nepal has no comparable visa issues, and as you mention, the himalayas are majestic. Like you, I am (maybe I should say &amp;#034;was&amp;#034; now) a climber and have been up in the mountains there on a few occasions, though this was in my teens and early twenties, before I got into meditation or buddhism.</description> <pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2014 22:56:01 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5550523</guid> <dc:creator>Max L</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-06-25T22:56:01Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Prerequisites For Panditarama (or alternatives)?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5550432</link> <description>Hi Max,&lt;br /&gt;I emailed my application for the Panditarama Special Retreat back in April when registration opened and I detailed my prior experiences, that I’d been practicing in the U Ba Khin/ Goenka tradition, but had some familiarity with Mahasi having read his books, read countless reports of meditators online, had done some practice with noting myself, and wanted to engage Mahasi’s methods more intensely. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I got a reply asking if I knew it was taught in the Mahasi tradition and that I should get some information on Mahasi first and get back to them. I’m not sure if there was some communication misunderstanding (although my application was detailed and crystal clear and their reply was in faultless English) or if this was some sort of admonition to get some more Mahasi experience prior to considering applying, or something else.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;You also raise an important point regarding Vivekananda’s schedule at Lumbini. It’s something I need to examine more closely. &lt;br /&gt;I want to get clear on this ASAP because it’s rapidly approaching and very soon I’ll need to get moving to arrange passport and visas, make travel plans, and order my stuff in NYC during my absence.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;That’s the reason for this thread, to get some input into what the procedure is. I do understand that there’s an element of exclusivity/proprietary practices evident in many lineages, which will have to be navigated.  I have the summer/fall/winter available, the energy, and the motivation and I want to make this happen. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&amp;#039;ve heard that Myanmar is a truly exotic place and it&amp;#039;d be novel to visit a place so overwhelmingly Buddhist. </description> <pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2014 20:48:06 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5550432</guid> <dc:creator>Monsoon Frog</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-06-25T20:48:06Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Prerequisites For Panditarama (or alternatives)?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5550427</link> <description>Hi Daniel,&lt;br /&gt;I&amp;#039;ve read many fine reports from Panditarama Lumbini so it&amp;#039;s been my primary focus. &lt;br /&gt;OTOH, in Myanmar at Panditarama Forest Center in Hse Main Gon they conduct what&amp;#039;s called a Special Sixty Day Retreat during December and January geared specifically towards foreign meditators. &lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;One thought was perhaps going to Lumbini in Nepal for 4-8 weeks sometime in September &amp;#x2013; November, and then either staying on for some time longer, or heading to Myanmar for the Sixty Day Retreat in December/January, based of course on where my head was at after the Lumbini retreat.&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;MBMC isn’t easy to get solid reliable info on and from what I read online is unclear. &lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;I&amp;#039;ve read Mahasi&amp;#039;s books and other variations of noting and done it a little, but not full bore. A week ago I ran into Burmese Mahasi monk (and meditation teacher) on the street here in Brooklyn (orange robes) and had a good conversation with him. He resides at a temple 6 blocks from me that&amp;#039;s part of the America Burma Buddhist Association (ABBA). He&amp;#039;s been in the USA for about a decade. We talked about meditation and while I mentioned my interest in Mahasi, he said he&amp;#039;d done a 10-day U Ba Khin retreat and found it very beneficial, and thought the anapana (5 days*) was challenging and developed concentration. Although I think they are geared more towards the Burmese population in NYC, I&amp;#039;m considering meeting with the head monk and seeing if there&amp;#039;s a way to get some Mahasi instruction there. &lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;One tertiary interest is that I’m a climber and Nepal offers an opportunity to see the Himalayas, perhaps do some site seeing/trekking pre or post retreat. &lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;*From my understanding U Ba Khin&amp;#039;s 10-day course originally was structured with 5.5 days of anapana before teaching Vipassana/body scan. However, Burmese politics changed and foreigners were only able to get a one week visa, so the course was changed to a 7-day course, with the first half (3.5 days) devoted to anapana. Goenka&amp;#039;s courses retain this 3.5 day anapana structure. The IMC course I took recently devotes 5.5 days solely to anapana. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;span style="color: #090909"&gt;Lumbini gets a lot of good press and reviews these days. Panditarama has a place associated with it that is a bit more suited for westerners and more designed for them: might look into that if you want to brave Myanmar.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: #090909"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: #090909"&gt;MBMC in Penang also takes Westerners: could check them out these days: teachers vary and how good their English is varies.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: #090909"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: #090909"&gt;Given a choice of all of those, I would think about Lumbini first.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: #090909"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: #090909"&gt;I would read Practical Insight Meditation a few times and practice the basic techniques in it to get them down pat.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description> <pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2014 20:33:14 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5550427</guid> <dc:creator>Monsoon Frog</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-06-25T20:33:14Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Prerequisites For Panditarama (or alternatives)?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5550345</link> <description>Monsoon Frog,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In terms of official prerequisites before one can practice at the Panditaramas, I don&amp;#039;t believe there are any. I did my second retreat at the Hse Main Gon location about four years ago. My only retreat time prior to that was a 10 day retreat at Spirit Rock. The nun who handled my intake was slightly perturbed that I arrived on a tourist visa and without seeking advance permission, but it was not a big deal. That stay at Panditarama was three weeks, so maybe there is more scrutiny for those applying for the &amp;#034;special&amp;#034; retreat.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Overall, I got the impression that they prefer to get people who are not highly indoctrinated into another tradition or technique, which makes sense. If anything, I think the most important prerequisite is the ability to handle the daily routine, which is quite rigorous. I haven’t sat a retreat in the Goenka tradition but from what I understand they are more or less comparable in that regard. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Like Daniel, I have heard that the Hse Main Gon (forest) location is more suitable for westerners than the urban location in Rangoon. I found it to be perfectly comfortable and agreeable. I was there during the off season (Oct/Nov) so I had my own room-- there were only about fifteen men practicing, mostly monks, and I was the only westerner. The food is really good. The grounds are beautiful and inspiring, although you won&amp;#039;t be seeing much of it other than the route from your kuti to the meditation hall and from the meditation hall to the dining hall. You&amp;#039;re expected to remain in the hall or immediately outside it at all times except during meals, and during a brief (~30 min) break period following meals. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&amp;#039;ve also heard very good things about the Lumbini location and in particular about the abbot, Sayadaw Vivekananda. I sat a multi-month retreat last year with a lay western teacher who regularly teaches with him, and she told me that for somebody looking to practice with a progress of insight orientation, Vivekananda is the go-to guy. He speaks a number of languages fluently, including English. So if one were to go to Lumbini it would make sense to time it to coincide with his presence there.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;-M</description> <pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2014 18:28:54 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5550345</guid> <dc:creator>Max L</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-06-25T18:28:54Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Prerequisites For Panditarama (or alternatives)?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5550331</link> <description>Hi Tom, &lt;br /&gt;This spring I&amp;#039;d been accepted to two 10-day retreats (IMC and Goenka) separated by a two week period. I figured if I could ramp up my meditation prior to going into the first retreat, then meditate like 8-10 hours a day in the two weeks between retreats, followed by perhaps a similar regimen after the second 10-day retreat ended, that I could fashion a retreat of a month or month and a half in duration in an attempt at stream entry. But I also had a Plan B (intensive retreat in Southest Asia and the reason for this post).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I live in NYC in a large apartment with two other roommates but with seperate bathrooms, so good privacy. There’s an inconsiderate upstairs neighbor in regards to noise that can make meditation challenging at times (I’d occasionally go outside to meditate, for ex. in Central Park late at night in winter in freezing temps to evade the neighbor noise … although I’m also making improvements in enduring the distractions at home more equanimously). Just as this self-retreat plan commensed one of my roommates got fired from her job and instead of being at work was  home all day yakking loudly on her phone often on speakerphone. Then other unexpected stuff that needed taking care of came up. At the second retreat I&amp;#039;d planned to volunteer and give dana service for a couple days after it ended and our meditation was only three hours during those two days. During that retreat my recently fired roommate emailed me that she was moving to another state to take a job offer, but unfortunately I didn’t receive the email until noble silence ended like 8 days later, and to complicate matters I left my (non smartphone) cell behind at the retreat. I’m responsible for the apartment and this made me very late in searching for a suitable new roommate, which involves endless communications and all day phone tag. Then my other roommate also made plans to move so lots of instability domestically. A long winded way of stating that conditions have to be optimal with many factors in alignment for a slf retreat to successfully occur. Asta la vista Plan A. In fact I’ve missed several daily sits in the past few weeks.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Plan B is to have done the previous two 10-day retreats, maybe try to do another 10-day this summer if I can get into one, keep up my daily meditation, then go to southeast Asia this fall/winter for 2-4 months immersive practice with instruction in the Mahasi tradition.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I did hit powerful A&amp;amp;P experiences at both recent retreats, particularly so in the latter one (body exploding into vibrations and pulsing/throbbing very heavily also with optical effects for half an hour after meditation ended) and am still crossing the A&amp;amp;P fairly regularly on daily sits. The instructions from taking the Goenka course a second time were greatly beneficial, since I’d developed some poor habits and misunderstandings of the technique since my first Goenka retreat 4 months prior. Also as an ‘old student’ I was offered a meditation cell to use in addition to meditating with the group in the meditation hall and I liked meditating alone in the cell (essentially a closet). I’d hit the Dark Night heavy after arriving back in NYC (which has made the new roommate search &amp;#039;interesting&amp;#039;). &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Additionally, I really want to learn how to improve my technique. I want to be around accomplished meditators and in particular expert teachers. It was unfortunate to hit what I believe was equanimity back in February without understanding what it was and with no knowledge of what could be done in my practice to direct it towards stream entry and no one to turn to for guidance (in fact, at the time I experienced it and for a week or two prior I was meditating only sporadically and often not for a few days at a time, rather I was researching and reading about Buddhism very heavily all day). So I want to undertake a sustained retreat, but with qaulity instruction. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I don’t think the self-retreat idea is practical at this stage of my practice so I’m not seriously considering it.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 12px"&gt;Edited title: changed the word &amp;#039;Resume&amp;#039; to &amp;#039;Prerequisite&amp;#039;.&lt;/span&gt;</description> <pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2014 17:46:22 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5550331</guid> <dc:creator>Monsoon Frog</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-06-25T17:46:22Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Prerequisites For Panditarama (or alternatives)?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5550271</link> <description>Lumbini gets a lot of good press and reviews these days. Panditarama has a place associated with it that is a bit more suited for westerners and more designed for them: might look into that if you want to brave Myanmar.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;MBMC in Penang also takes Westerners: could check them out these days: teachers vary and how good their English is varies.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Given a choice of all of those, I would think about Lumbini first.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I would read Practical Insight Meditation a few times and practice the basic techniques in it to get them down pat.</description> <pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2014 16:42:43 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5550271</guid> <dc:creator>Daniel M. Ingram</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-06-25T16:42:43Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Prerequisites For Panditarama (or alternatives)?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5550209</link> <description>howdy MF,&lt;br /&gt;have you ever considered doing a self-retreat?  in some ways they are much better than organized ones in that you can do your own thing in whatever schedule you want to.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;there are some things you can prepare ahead of time like frozen food.  shut off the cell, hide the tv in the closet and tell all of your firends you are on vacation and unreachable.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;congratulations and good luck!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;tom</description> <pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2014 10:48:49 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5550209</guid> <dc:creator>tom moylan</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-06-25T10:48:49Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>Prerequisites For Panditarama (or alternatives)?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5550036</link> <description>I’ve been meditating a little over a year, initially via an 8 week MBSR course, then a 10-day Goenka retreat (where I crossed the A&amp;amp;P - disolving into vibrations followed by a flow of love and compassion like hot fudge - and things got interesting) . In the past three months I’ve attended another two 10-day retreats (one Goenka and the other at ICM [in U Ba Khin tradition… very similar but not the same as the Goenka]). Three months after the first Goenka retreat I entered a week of unusual imperturbability with strong equanimity, loving kindness, spontaneous joy, and compassion accompanied by an almost permanent easy smile while out and about in NYC ... I couldn&amp;#039;t imagine life could get much better than that. Self diagnostics in hindsite suggests I entered the equinimity nana (I&amp;#039;ll post seperately regarding that as I do have some questions) in the wake of which the idea that it’d be useful to have access to a teacher, in addition to an opportunity for more intensive practice, became prominent. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I’ve been trying to sit for 2-3+ hrs a day. I have the time now for a longish retreat, but very little money (and I don’t forsee the money part changing anytime soon as I’m an artist with a simple life). A place like IMS has been booked for many months and is way too expensive. I&amp;#039;ve been looking to get as much retreat time in, but even 10-day retreats seem booked solid into the future. I was planning to apply for the Gunaratana 9-day Jhana retreat at the Bhavana Society for next month (developing concentration is high on my list) and although I planned and applied on the day registration opened, it was booked and closed! So I&amp;#039;m finding myself in an odd predicament of having the motivation (there&amp;#039;s nothing else that matters as much to me at present) and time, but not a venue. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The first Goenka retreat last November was followed by 6 weeks camping in the desert climbing and meditating ... and experiencing the Dark Night which led me to seek an explanation of what I was undergoing. To that end I&amp;#039;ve been studying and researching daily since January trying to gain a conceptual understanding of the experiences that I&amp;#039;ve had and what continued practice might entail. In that research I&amp;#039;d come across Bill Hamilton’s book Saints and Psychopaths, and afterwards MCTB. I like what Bill has to say about the economics of &lt;strong&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;a long-term retreat in Burma: for the price of a plane ticket it’s likely less expensive than a similar retreat in the USA, with the added bonus of experiencing a non-western culture for the first time in my life vs. seeing an American suburb. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Although I’ve read Mahasi’s books and this site is of course weighted towards noting practice - of which I’m interested - I’d been doing the anapana/body scan via Goenka to date, as the price is right, and I have no issue with body scanning as I’ve not really done much else, a little kasina practice and some brief excursions into noting. The Goenka organizational system however seems overly rigid in its structure and method of progression. I have the time NOW to commit to practice, however in the Goenka system I’d have to practice for two years (and do the same 10-day course/instruction over and over) before the opportunity to do a twenty day course with advanced instruction … I think that and the variability of the assistant teachers are the system’s weaknesses (although I had a good teacher with informative private interviews during my last sit). Although I’m grateful for the Goenka courses I‘ve taken and the insights that resulted there from, I do not see myself fitting cleanly within that structure, so I’m looking to experiment and broaden my horizons.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Research has my prime candidate as Panditarama: either the special westerner’s forest retreat in Burma (2 months) or a stint in Lumbini, Nepal (or both?). I can commit to a maximum of 4-5 months. The objective is to deepen my practice, get estabished in noting with some good instruction, develope my concentration, and attain stream entry.  Specifically I&amp;#039;m considering perhaps doing 2 months +/- at Lumbini Oct-Nov and/or two months in Burma at the special retreat in December-January. True, I’ve never done more than a 10 day sit, but the three 10-day retreats I’ve done I was a little sad when they ended as it seemed a shame to prematurely stop my momentum when I had deepened my concentration. I want to engage this with a deeper commitment and I want to do it ASAP.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;What does Panditarama want to see in a retreat applicant? Is it necessary to undertake formal Mahasi noting training prior to being accepted for a retreat? Over the many months I’ve looked around on the East coast (I’m in NYC) but there do not seem to be any inexpensive (i.e. dirtbag) options and for doing such.&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;Any thoughts on this or alternative options to do 2+ month long retreat on a dirtbag budget?&lt;br /&gt;Thanks a bunch.</description> <pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2014 23:40:16 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5550036</guid> <dc:creator>Monsoon Frog</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-06-24T23:40:16Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: stream entry in Thailand</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5546886</link> <description>howdy simon,&lt;br /&gt;i just wanted to comment on that technique after i had practiced it a few times.  it is pretty powerful and makes sense on a lot of levels.  it also agrees and integrates some of the key points made by some teachers.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;the anapansati is pretty much straight mahasi sayadow, the relaxing step ( i like your commentary about it too!) follows the vimilaramsi interpretation emphasizing the &amp;#034;relax&amp;#034; instruction on anapanasati, and the focusing on specific bodily sensations is closely analagous to the MCTB excersize of alternating noticing of the sensations on the index fingers.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;i found myself getting much clearer on distinguishing between the actual sensations and the subsequent mental impressions.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;thanks for the instruction.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;tom</description> <pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2014 11:13:57 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5546886</guid> <dc:creator>tom moylan</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-06-18T11:13:57Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: stream entry in Thailand</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5546435</link> <description>thanks simon. i like it and will check out your link.&lt;br /&gt;otm</description> <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2014 08:38:49 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5546435</guid> <dc:creator>tom moylan</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-06-17T08:38:49Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: stream entry in Thailand</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5546204</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;tom moylan:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;It&amp;#039;s only at Doi Suthep that I finally got to figure out the idea behind the technique. Basically, it&amp;#039;s an energy practice, and the various points they make you pay attention, and the order, is to have the energy circulate and released.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Hey Simon,  I don&amp;#039;t want to hijack the thread but would love to hear more about this technique if you can point to a good description of it I&amp;#039;m al ears.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;tom&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The basic is the same as the Mahasi technique, you note rising/falling and the 6 senses doors, with the distinction that at every other breath, you move your attention to a point in your body. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A. So, you breath-in, breath-out, note Rising/Falling,&lt;br /&gt;B. You relax (usually mean paying attention to your whole body) for one or two breath (Using the mental note &amp;#034;relaxing&amp;#034; is sometimes recommended) (the instruction is to not care about the breath during that step)&lt;br /&gt;C. You move your attention to point #1 (you can note &amp;#034;touching&amp;#034; while doing it but it&amp;#039;s not necessary) and you don&amp;#039;t care about the breath during that step either. So you can rest your attention there for one or two breath.&lt;br /&gt;D. Repeats steps ABC except that you move to another point of attention.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In total, there is 28 points of attention, but since I only stayed for 10 days, I only learned the first 14. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Here is my loosy attempt at showing where the points are:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;imgur&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;rTd12X1"&gt;http://imgur.com/rTd12X1&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;I personally had difficulties with the techniques but it allowed me to figure out patways to release tension from my body, by figuring out how my muscles are connected. I will move tension down from my back, then along my hips, moving on the side of my legs, to the side of my feet and then to the top of my feet. The muscle there can allow some release of tension. If not, then up to my knees, and up to my quadriceps. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The walking meditation is exactly the same as Mahasi. Also, we are required to use a timer to determine our sitting/walking time (incremented by 5 minutes everyday, usually).</description> <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2014 17:39:27 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5546204</guid> <dc:creator>Simon T.</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-06-16T17:39:27Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: stream entry in Thailand</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5546174</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Daniel M. Ingram:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt; Avoid mosquitos.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Avoiding mosquitoes in SE Asia is a bit like diving into the ocean and trying to avoid water, if you ask me &lt;img alt="emoticon" src="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dho-theme/images/emoticons/happy.gif" &gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;30 days is more than enough time to get stream-entry with fast, diligent noting and good concentration. No special monasteries or techniques necessary.</description> <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2014 14:40:21 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5546174</guid> <dc:creator>Eric M W</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-06-16T14:40:21Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: stream entry in Thailand</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5546110</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;It&amp;#039;s only at Doi Suthep that I finally got to figure out the idea behind the technique. Basically, it&amp;#039;s an energy practice, and the various points they make you pay attention, and the order, is to have the energy circulate and released.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Hey Simon,  I don&amp;#039;t want to hijack the thread but would love to hear more about this technique if you can point to a good description of it I&amp;#039;m al ears.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;tom&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description> <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2014 09:10:38 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5546110</guid> <dc:creator>tom moylan</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-06-16T09:10:38Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: stream entry in Thailand</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5545924</link> <description>There a few centers in Chiang Mai, 3 of those offer a modified technique of Mahasi noting developed by Ajahn Tong. Those places usually have a very high rotation level of yogis. Many backpackers only staying for a few days. Still, if you follow the instruction, which are sometimes confusing, you can get somewhere.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;1. Wat Ram Poeng (max 28 days)&lt;br /&gt;When there 2 times. The monks aren&amp;#039;t very nice to be honest (I&amp;#039;m not the only one saying that) and I found their instructions lacking. Andrew got stream entry there and offer a good review:&lt;br /&gt;http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/4193658&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;2. Chom Tong in Chom Tong village. (28 days course but no limits on the length of stay)&lt;br /&gt;The instructions are provided by laypeople in the international center and there was a lots of confusion sometimes. I seriously doubts the achievements of some of the &amp;#034;teachers&amp;#034;. Still, a very nice place to stay and I heard that it might be possible to get instructions from a Thai monk with a translator. This is where Ajahn Tong resides. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;3. Doi Suthep (max 21 days)&lt;br /&gt;http://www.doisuthep.com/?p=80&lt;br /&gt;It&amp;#039;s the same technique but taught in a shorter time. I like the schedule of Doi Sutep. There is a Dharma Talk at 5:30am, nothing profond but entertaining and its helps me starts my day. There is chanting at 5pm followed by a short Dharma Talk. There is only one monk that do the interview, Dharma talk and chanting and he is really dedicated, but a bit crazy (in a funny way). &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It&amp;#039;s only at Doi Suthep that I finally got to figure out the idea behind the technique. Basically, it&amp;#039;s an energy practice, and the various points they make you pay attention, and the order, is to have the energy circulate and released.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The weather is also nicer at Doi Suthep. The monk pretty much let you mind your own business and the daily interview is usually quite basic. Monks at Wat Ram Poeng are more demanding but their attitude isn&amp;#039;t too helpful.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Another place in Chiang Mai that offer a different technique is Wat Umong but I never took a course there.</description> <pubDate>Sun, 15 Jun 2014 19:30:05 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5545924</guid> <dc:creator>Simon T.</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-06-15T19:30:05Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: stream entry in Thailand</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5545810</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Daniel M. Ingram:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;I got dengue coming out of Cambodia, hit about the time my plane landed in Bangkok, and I went from 60 to 0 in about 30 minutes, the headache was truly amazing, the fevers up to 104, the body aches moderately terrible, but not worse than real influenza (apparently the name &amp;#034;breakbone fever&amp;#034; applies much more to local populations and doesn&amp;#039;t affect tourists quite as much for reasons unknown), and the fatigue was so bad I could barely crawl down the stairs of the crappy little hotel that I stumbled into as a place to ride it out. It lasted about a week, but I was bone tired for 2 more weeks afterwards: major time lost, seriously unpleasant, &lt;strong&gt;highly unrecommended.&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;haha highly unrecommended?? Yes I would agree haha.... that made me laugh uncontrollably...&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Sounds like my brother didn&amp;#039;t get it as bad as you did.</description> <pubDate>Sun, 15 Jun 2014 00:50:59 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5545810</guid> <dc:creator>Travis Gene McKinstry</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-06-15T00:50:59Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: stream entry in Thailand</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5545806</link> <description>I got dengue coming out of Cambodia, hit about the time my plane landed in Bangkok, and I went from 60 to 0 in about 30 minutes, the headache was truly amazing, the fevers up to 104, the body aches moderately terrible, but not worse than real influenza (apparently the name &amp;#034;breakbone fever&amp;#034; applies much more to local populations and doesn&amp;#039;t affect tourists quite as much for reasons unknown), and the fatigue was so bad I could barely crawl down the stairs of the crappy little hotel that I stumbled into as a place to ride it out. It lasted about a week, but I was bone tired for 2 more weeks afterwards: major time lost, seriously unpleasant, highly unrecommended.</description> <pubDate>Sun, 15 Jun 2014 00:29:27 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5545806</guid> <dc:creator>Daniel M. Ingram</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-06-15T00:29:27Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: stream entry in Thailand</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5545789</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Daniel M. Ingram:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;I haven&amp;#039;t sat there but I visited the place about 11 years ago. Looked nice enough. Technique is good. Big trick is to follow instructions all day long. That is basically the difference between people who do well vs don&amp;#039;t. Avoid mosquitos.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Avoid mosquitos like the plague. I second this. My brother is in Thailand (and ironically enough got SE as well, though he is a hard worker. Not suggesting you aren&amp;#039;t, just an FYI) and he tells us stories of having HUNDREDS (you read that right) of mosquito bites on his feet. He unfortunately got some nasty disease, that is curable, fortuantely. Something like Dengue fever or something.... he can tell you when he gets back on here.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Anyways, good luck &lt;img alt="emoticon" src="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dho-theme/images/emoticons/happy.gif" &gt; Go get it!</description> <pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2014 22:52:19 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5545789</guid> <dc:creator>Travis Gene McKinstry</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-06-14T22:52:19Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: stream entry in Thailand</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5545768</link> <description>I haven&amp;#039;t sat there but I visited the place about 11 years ago. Looked nice enough. Technique is good. Big trick is to follow instructions all day long. That is basically the difference between people who do well vs don&amp;#039;t. Avoid mosquitos.</description> <pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2014 18:56:32 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5545768</guid> <dc:creator>Daniel M. Ingram</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-06-14T18:56:32Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: stream entry in Thailand</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5545753</link> <description>Google this -&amp;gt; site:http://www.dharmaoverground.org retreat mahasi chiang&lt;br /&gt;Good luck,&lt;br /&gt;~D</description> <pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2014 17:16:42 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5545753</guid> <dc:creator>Dream Walker</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-06-14T17:16:42Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>stream entry in Thailand</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5545125</link> <description>&lt;span style="font-family: courier&amp;#x20;new&amp;#x2c;&amp;#x20;courier&amp;#x2c;&amp;#x20;monospace"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;I seem to remember there&amp;#039;s a retreat center in or near Chiang Mai that has a program encouraging stream entry within 30 days. Please, anyone, send me the name and if possible the link so I may make further inquiries and possibly a reservation to go there in September or October. Thanks for any help.&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description> <pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2014 01:26:14 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5545125</guid> <dc:creator>Steve Katona</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-06-14T01:26:14Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>Myanmar Visa Questions</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5543434</link> <description>Dear All,&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;My cousin and I are hoping to visit Myanmar for about 5 weeks in the near future, both to go on retreat and spend some time travelling. With that in mind I have a few questions, particularly about the visa options:&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;1. If we apply for a ‘religious visa’ do you need a sponsorship letter from the retreat centre we plan to stay? Is it OK to travel on a religious visa as well as attend retreat (i.e. three week retreat, two weeks travelling)?&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;2. If we obtain a tourist visa, will a retreat centre let us stay and is it OK to overrun the visa by one/two weeks and pay extra at the airport on the way out? Is that allowed or frowned upon?&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;3. In terms of climate is February/March still OK to travel there? Are mosquitoes particularly bad or are some regions better than others?&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;4. Finally, I’ve had a look at the DhO wiki on retreat centres but there appears to be little news on Myanmar centres. Would anybody be able to provide a few pointers to some good ones to stay at (i.e. Panditarama)?&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;Thanks for any advice,&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;Nick</description> <pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2014 11:26:09 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5543434</guid> <dc:creator>Nick Green</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-06-08T11:26:09Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Meditation Visa for Myanmar: applying in Bangkok</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5542875</link> <description>I&amp;#039;ve been exchanging emails recently with Pandita Rama (Yangon) regarding obtaining a Meditation Visa to do a 10 day and this is what I was told:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&amp;#034;People do not get in trouble for taking a ten-day retreat when they come to the country for business, tourism or other purposes.&amp;#034;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Apparently an official invite from the monastery is only needed if you&amp;#039;re planning a long retreat like for 3 months.  I&amp;#039;ll be there in October/November time frame.  My company is sending me there to train customers in Mandalay.  Pretty cool eh?  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Hope this helps.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Matthew</description> <pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2014 04:08:44 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5542875</guid> <dc:creator>Matthew O'Donnell</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-06-06T04:08:44Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Meditation Visa for Myanmar: applying in Bangkok</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5542132</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;J C:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;I don&amp;#039;t understand why you can&amp;#039;t just get a tourist visa and use that.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Besides the matter of time contraints (tourist visas are 28 days, and overstays can create issues that go way beyond inconvenience), some meditation destinations will not accept yogis on a tourist visa. Shwe Oo Min monastery, referenced earlier in this thread, comes to mind. I stayed at Panditarama Hse Main Gon while on a tourist visa. They were a little annoyed by that. If I go back I&amp;#039;ll get the meditation visa.</description> <pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2014 21:19:48 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5542132</guid> <dc:creator>Max L</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-06-03T21:19:48Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Meditation Visa for Myanmar: applying in Bangkok</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5540502</link> <description>I don&amp;#039;t understand why you can&amp;#039;t just get a tourist visa and use that.</description> <pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2014 06:20:33 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5540502</guid> <dc:creator>J C</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-06-01T06:20:33Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Meditation Visa for Myanmar: applying in Bangkok</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5540486</link> <description>I have gotten a meditation visa for Myanmar the last 2 winters in Bangkok, no problem. Two winters ago it was crowded and last winter it was not. Doesn&amp;#039;t hurt to get there earlier than later though. Both times I had to wait in the same line as everyone else at counter one to get your number which will be for counter 4 (same as business counter and hardly anyone ever in it so waiting time from that point is short). Same day isn&amp;#039;t the norm. They asked me if I was in a hurry. First year yes, second year no. They charge more money if you&amp;#039;re in a hurry, I don&amp;#039;t remember how much. Have all your papers, money, and photos ready. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;IF YOU FIND YOU ARE SHORT ON ANY OF THE REQUIREMENTS: There are banks on the big street nearby. Also just a bit further down the side street the embassy is on on the other side of the road is a handy little shop that can do passport photos, make copies, paper clip, glue, etc. They are used to people coming there for that assistance. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As far as touring around some after your retreat: the monastery or whatever retreat organization that sponsors you is responsible for you and it seems the expectation is that you stay there. However, different places have different attitudes towards this. Better to ask your sponsor directly.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Hope that helps</description> <pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2014 05:42:58 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5540486</guid> <dc:creator>Zach Hessler</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-06-01T05:42:58Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Retreat Routines: Ideas/Suggestions?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5539910</link> <description>Hello Julian, &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;What are you hoping to achieve or make progress towards? The process of the content of your email seems to indicate that you have a desire to progress and that perhaps if you find the proper combinations of conditions you will achieve something. There seems to be a general theme of desire for &amp;#034;control&amp;#034; in your post that you would like to find a way of controlling the progress by setting up the right conditions.  I have gone through that process myself.  I find it to be a process of contraction, selfing, identification and the unsatisfactoriness of it shows itself to me more and more, especially on retreat.  I like Goenka&amp;#039;s advice for intensive practice on retreat, very simple and to the point he continues to tell people to be patient, diligent, and persistent. Basically, just keep practicing continuously.  Thats the ticket.  Just keep practicing and the progress that you are hoping for will happen. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;That being said, personally, I do alot of reclining meditation when sitting gets too intense on retreat, to manage pain that is distracting, but pain can also be helpful to work with and progress by observing it. I generally eat less on retreat as I find that when I eat less, I become less lethargic and it helps my practice. I remember a dharma talk I listened to a while back by Shinzen Young which may address your thoughts on extended sitting. &lt;a href="https&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;youtube&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;watch&amp;#x3f;v&amp;#x3d;gYSSf71Vo7w&amp;#x2e;"&gt;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYSSf71Vo7w.&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;metta,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Drew</description> <pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2014 00:31:50 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5539910</guid> <dc:creator>Drew Miller</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-05-31T00:31:50Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>Retreat Routines: Ideas/Suggestions?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5539473</link> <description>I&amp;#039;m planning to do my second retreat in about a month. It&amp;#039;s a 9 day retreat. My best guess is that I am currently in Equanimity.I would like some perspective on things to do while on retreat to help make progress along the path. My practice is primarily KF noting and will try to note during all waking hours.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Does anyone have experience in taking written notes on meditation periods to help identify patterns/stages after the fact? Any suggestions around doing longer sittings outside of the meditation hall, say in my room, or outside in a quiet spot in order to gain some momentum? Any suggestions for dealing with body pain/aches? Last retreat I tried to do some yoga in the breaks, but found that it was making my dizzy. Not going there again.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Any other ideas that might be helpful in terms of schedule, food, etc.?</description> <pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2014 14:58:11 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5539473</guid> <dc:creator>Julian</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-05-29T14:58:11Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: European Mind Centre</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5536744</link> <description>howdy filip,&lt;br /&gt;wait and see.   i watched the video and am suspicious. they want money to buy land.  they want to offer &amp;#034;low-cost&amp;#034; possibilities to retreat.  the entire presentation, while hitting all of the honey-soaked keywords, reeks to me as a &amp;#034;true believer&amp;#034; trying to carve out a comfortable niche for himself. call me jaded.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;peace&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;tom</description> <pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2014 09:43:56 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5536744</guid> <dc:creator>tom moylan</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-05-23T09:43:56Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>European Mind Centre</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5535625</link> <description>&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;europe&amp;#x2e;contemplativeobservatory&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;"&gt;http://europe.contemplativeobservatory.com/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;What do you think? I&amp;#039;m pretty damn excited about it.</description> <pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2014 17:59:22 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5535625</guid> <dc:creator>Filip</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-05-19T17:59:22Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Monastic tradition with strong community aspects</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5533253</link> <description>Simon,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I can share my observations from having stayed a couple of times at Wat Metta in Southern California (Thanissaro Bhikkhu, abbot). From what I can tell, they check most of the boxes on your list. Monks are not involved in the preparation of the meal, which is left to the lay residents and guests. There&amp;#039;s definitely some communal study/scholarship happening -- some of the monks are often in the computer room doing some kind of writing, translation or transcription. Most, if not all of the monks also participate in the afternoon work periods, which is generally some kind of upkeep/maintenance (the monastery is located within a working avocado and citrus orchard). It&amp;#039;s hard to be certain what exactly the monks are up to the rest of the time, as there is a designated cloister area where they spend most of the day, and lay people are asked to stay away. In any case, I get the impression that it&amp;#039;s a tightly knit community, not at all individualistic. </description> <pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2014 20:44:55 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5533253</guid> <dc:creator>Max L</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-05-13T20:44:55Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>Monastic tradition with strong community aspects</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5533061</link> <description>I&amp;#039;m getting curious into monastic communities that balance individual practices with strong community activities. Activities that goes behond rituals and actually serve a purpose (spiritual or material). Ex:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;-Drawing sand mandala while chanting as a group (that&amp;#039;s seems a amazing practice to both calm the mind and increase concentration)&lt;br /&gt;-Chanting&lt;br /&gt;-Group meditation&lt;br /&gt;-Taking care of the affairs of the temple, peeling potatoes, chopping wood, caring water, growing vegetables&lt;br /&gt;-Studying, sharing findings. (with interaction encouraged for those purposes)&lt;br /&gt;-More openness to share experiences en difficulties. Accessible teachers (so in my dreams monastery, there is Arahants everywhere with an open-door policy)&lt;br /&gt;-Participating at the construction or maintenance of the facilities&lt;br /&gt;-A minimum of harship &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Ajahn Chah was known to incite his students to participate in tedious activities like building a road but in general, it&amp;#039;s appears that the Therevadin aren&amp;#039;t too much incline in doing things as a group beyond rituals, dharma talks and chanting.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I have feeling that the Tibetan might be more into this kind of stuff but it might vary from one temple to another. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Christian Contemplative surely have a strong sense of community, chanting together, working together (making beer, cheese) but as it seems they tend to be too authoritarian, I believe. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I heard that the monks in China had to develop more skills and a stronger sense of community to survive, since they couldn&amp;#039;t survive on alms giving only. They even trained in fighting. According to Stephen Bachelor (for what it&amp;#039;s worth) very few monks then achieved Enlightenment as they were too busy. So a balance is needed.</description> <pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2014 11:00:50 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5533061</guid> <dc:creator>Simon T.</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-05-13T11:00:50Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>Bhavana Society [Alex L.] [MIGRATE]</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5527548</link> <description>Bhavana Society [Alex L.] &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Alex L. - 2014-04-28 19:19:22 - Bhavana Society&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Hi,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&amp;#039;m considering going on a retreat to the Bhavana Society in West Virginia.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;However, I&amp;#039;m concerned that it won&amp;#039;t be serious enough. I&amp;#039;m looking to deepen my practice and worry that my time could be better utilized elsewhere.  I have two little girls so my time away from the family is precious. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&amp;#039;m an intermediate meditator who&amp;#039;s done mostly insight and looking to deepen concentration.  I have done 2 Goenka 10-days and one 7-day following Shinzen&amp;#039;s methods at the Centre for Mindful Learning in Burlington.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Can anyone help me on this?  With appreciation and metta,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Alex&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;-------------------&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Daniel M. Ingram - 2014-04-29 02:28:18 - RE: Bhavana Society&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;i did a bunch of retreats there 1996-2001 and got a lot out of it&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;mostly the question is what you do with your mind all day long&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;even in very &amp;#034;serious&amp;#034; places, people blow it often&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;up to you&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;-------------------&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Alex L. - 2014-04-29 21:03:34 - RE: Bhavana Society&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Daniel,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;thanks for the reply and, of course, for creating this website.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I suppose it&amp;#039;s hard to move on from Soryu Forall and my friends in Burlington who I met last summer but perhaps I should broaden my horizon.  And they&amp;#039;re all younger than me so I&amp;#039;ll probably see them again.    &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Best,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Alex</description> <pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2014 09:56:34 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5527548</guid> <dc:creator>Migration 6.2 Daemon</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-05-07T09:56:34Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>Home retreat through May 15, 2014</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5457534</link> <description>Hi all, &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A DhOer is hosting communal sitting practice through their email&amp;#039;s video service through May 15. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The hours we&amp;#039;ve been sitting are daily:&lt;br /&gt;Morning: EST 6-7 a.m. (UTC 10:00-11:00) and &lt;br /&gt;Evening: EST 8-9 a.m. (UTC 00:00-01:00).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If anyone would like to come to this periodically or consistently, just send a PM and the link would be sent in reply.</description> <pubDate>Sat, 26 Apr 2014 21:09:01 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5457534</guid> <dc:creator>katy steger</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-04-26T21:09:01Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Germany: Metta-Retreat by Bhante Sujato (Dec. 2013)</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5424220</link> <description>Meanwhile, the recordings of the retreat have been released. Look here:&lt;br /&gt;http://www.dhammanet.org/archive/Metta_Retreat_Germany_2013&lt;br /&gt;The recordings contain Bhante Sujato talking, and after every few sentences the german translation.</description> <pubDate>Mon, 14 Apr 2014 14:05:53 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5424220</guid> <dc:creator>bernd the broter</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-04-14T14:05:53Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Meditation Visa for Myanmar: applying in Bangkok</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5409495</link> <description>If the application form on the Pa-Auk Forest monastery website is anything to go by (which it probably is) - you have to stay at the meditation center for the duration of your meditation visa.</description> <pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2014 00:37:06 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5409495</guid> <dc:creator>Rob Njosnavelin</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-04-10T00:37:06Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Goenka Retreat then to Panditarama</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5409476</link> <description>Tim&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;My first retreat was a goenka retreat, and being the naughty little punk rebel that I am, I played with techniques other than those supplied on the retreat.&lt;br /&gt;Looking back, the mindset with which I played with them was bullish, arrogant, &amp;#034;I know better&amp;#034;, as well as a subtle discomfort for &amp;#034;cheating&amp;#034; (lying saying that I would stick to their tech). I now realise I would have been better to just CONFORM - stick to what they prescribe and run with that for the period of time I was there.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Doing that will most likely expand your awareness, equanimity, ability to set several hours a day, etc - which ain&amp;#039;t going to do you any harm if you go and do another retreat in another style of vipassana. I remember when i went to MBMC and told them I&amp;#039;d done Goenka&amp;#039;s stuff they were just like &amp;#034;oh cool! they practice good stuff&amp;#034; (pretty sure the Goenka chaps wouldn&amp;#039;t have had the same attitude had I come from mahasi to their system, but each to their own).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;On a side note - I really don&amp;#039;t see how the goenka stuff is *NOT* &amp;#039;noting&amp;#039;. Sure, there&amp;#039;s no labelling, but the principal is still the same - saturating full-minded equanimous awareness into the object while examining the 3-characteristics. Besides the labelling factor - how is that any different?</description> <pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2014 00:25:52 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5409476</guid> <dc:creator>Rob Njosnavelin</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-04-10T00:25:52Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>Mahasi Practice Centers USA</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5409309</link> <description>Greetings fellow yogis,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I was fortunate enough to spend 5 months on retreat last year: one month at Southwest Sangha working with my US teacher Allan Cooper; one month at Tathagata Meditation Center in San Jose with that retreat led by U Pandita; 90 days in Lumbini studying with Sayadaw Vivekananda and Sayalay Bhaddhamonika. I will return to Lumbini in the late summer or early autumn. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&amp;#039;d be interested to hear of any Mahasi style retreat centers or monasteries in the US besides those listed above--please include The Forest Refuge in Barre in that list as they are out of my financial range. I want to do one or two months of intensive practice before leaving for Asia.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I am also interested in any retreat centers in Thailand that fit the criteria. I have written twice to Sobin Namto&amp;#039;s monastery or temple Wat Wangplado but no replies in two weeks.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thanks for any help or suggestions.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;metta</description> <pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2014 22:22:35 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5409309</guid> <dc:creator>Steve Katona</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-04-09T22:22:35Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: How do you know whether you are ready for your first retreat or not?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5279019</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;world inside:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Hi Eelco,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&amp;#039;m glad you had a good experience with your recent retreat. Maybe it would be nice if you can share more details pertaining to your retreat. Something like the type of technique, student teacher ratio, teacher - student interaction frequency, satisfaction with teacher, other distractions (if any) and if possible the center name and its whereabouts. Maybe this could act as one more option in their ideal center list for the very first retreat&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I wrote a liite about my experience here...&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;dharmaoverground&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;web&amp;#x2f;guest&amp;#x2f;discussion&amp;#x2f;-&amp;#x2f;message_boards&amp;#x2f;message&amp;#x2f;4665489"&gt;my first retreat&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Scroll down a bit&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;With Love&lt;br /&gt;Eelco</description> <pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2014 05:02:10 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5279019</guid> <dc:creator>Eelco ten Have</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-03-10T05:02:10Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: How do you know whether you are ready for your first retreat or not?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5260661</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Eelco ten Have:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;Hi, I just did a first retreat. 15 days.&lt;br /&gt;Not being able to sit that long did mean a world of physical pain and accomanied by thoughts and feelings of not being able to do meditation propperly.(giving myself permission, during longer sits, to stretch fixed that)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Anyway just wanted to say that I wouldn&amp;#039;t have made the 60% score I think trying to score it myself.&lt;br /&gt;Even though in retrospect I was able to reach that before retreat I don&amp;#039;t think I would have seen it in that way suffering slight self-esteem issues.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;With Love&lt;br /&gt;Eelco&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Hi Eelco,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&amp;#039;m glad you had a good experience with your recent retreat. Maybe it would be nice if you can share more details pertaining to your retreat. Something like the type of technique, student teacher ratio, teacher - student interaction frequency, satisfaction with teacher, other distractions (if any) and if possible the center name and its whereabouts. Maybe this could act as one more option in their ideal center list for the very first retreat</description> <pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2014 10:54:24 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5260661</guid> <dc:creator>world inside</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-03-07T10:54:24Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: How do you know whether you are ready for your first retreat or not?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5260611</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Dream Walker:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;Good stuff,&lt;br /&gt;In your opinion what percentage of people are having &amp;#034;problems&amp;#034; and what are the results of these problems? &lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Right. So again - I have not seen this true for all retreat centers. Between me and my mother we have done many retreats in India as &amp;#034;participants&amp;#034; as well as have provided &amp;#034;voluntary service&amp;#034; for participants during retreats. In the initial days (before 2003) mostly all officially organized retreats we attended were at the Goenka Vipassana centers (maybe to lack of access to online forums)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There are many centers in India setup by Hon. Goenkaji as we know, however due to lack of a defined benchmark in &amp;#034;some&amp;#034; centers for authorizing a teacher, moreover the lack of defined &amp;#039;student evaluation methods&amp;#039; at times - the students are on their own. These same centers maybe excellent centers for old timers, however the 1st time retreaters should either do strong prior preparation or choose an alternate center which has a better reputation for 1st timers. Maybe if you are a fan of the body scanning technique, as a 1st timer Goenkaji&amp;#039;s Igatpuri Vipassana &amp;amp; Dhamma Pattana Vipassana Centre, Mumbai are world class facilities with top notch quality teachers who are believed to be at-least Steam Enterers or above. Even student evaluation processes exists here and special attention to 1st timers is present.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Secondly, &amp;#034;I&amp;#034; feel that the body scanning technique (only technique taught in Goenkaji Centers) requires some maturity than the noting technique. Noting as I have experienced, generally once the label is assigned mind usually comes out of the &amp;#034;reaction mode&amp;#034; and keeps it to the label. Body scanning technique in my case, helped me in the later stage to bring more sesations from each part of the body to surface. However to learn to maintain EQ during all different types of sensations, I feel noting technique is the best to start with.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Now, coming back to your comment - Since this is center specific, staff competency dependent and proportional to the suitability of technique followed, I would say - mostly more than 40% first timers do not progress as much in centers non-conducive for 1st timers.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Dream Walker:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;How serious is the problem? What is the solution after the problem has occurred? &lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The problems faced are not so serious in ordinary circumstances. Like we see &amp;#034;Eelco ten Have&amp;#034; commenting all was fine with him. Though it is important to understand whether Eelco ten Have visited a center with staff ratio more than 1:10 with absent student evaluation methods, wherein only sitting samadhi meditation is taught throughout or where it is empasized to follow body scanning technique ONLY. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;However, there is also a type of retreaters where we have seen people turn towards retreats - when life is in absolute turmoil (atleast to my limited experience/place where I hail from). Or even visit a meditation center wherein some situations or body conditions have resulted in intense pain (sensations and a strong reactive habit patterns to it). In such cases, exposure directly to insight may cause more reactivity/un-bearability as I have seen.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The solutions I have seen work in such conditions is guided metta, fixing insight technique, other healing techniques or simply practicing concentration until one attains one of the concentration Jhanas that creates some sort of joy which for the moment stabilizes oneself and later allows to enter the Insight zone. I&amp;#039;ve seen people try shlokas like simple OM jaap or even candle concentration meditation, etc... to start with. Few worst case situations I&amp;#039;ve seen that required even hypnosis, physiotherapy, shamanism, psychiatric treatment however these were for participants with pre-existing conditions. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Dream Walker:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;Warning people beforehand is great but I would also like to see proper encouragement.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I encourage people to start a daily practice. Amount of time increasing until it seems to be&amp;#034;working&amp;#034; towards your goals.&lt;br /&gt;I encourage people to find a competent teacher who can help in evaluating whether your ready for intensive retreat time.&lt;br /&gt;I encourage people to to do day long retreats to get used to the format of longer retreats&lt;br /&gt;I encourage people to read MCTB so they are informed about the benefits and &amp;#034;dangers&amp;#034; of intensive meditation&lt;br /&gt;I encourage people to trust their personal unfolding and follow their path incrementally without &amp;#034;grand planning&amp;#034; from the ego &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;~D&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Absolutely I agree - there are more benefits than risks. Maybe I sounded that way in my initial note, however my apologies if it came out that way. This was not even intended as a warning. Mostly my point to promote a &lt;strong&gt;&amp;#034;solid per-retreat preparation&amp;#034;&lt;/strong&gt; before a retreat. Not simply because of the risks, but simply to set your benefit/progress graph rolling to a swashbuckling healthy upwardly stable line and nothing less than that.</description> <pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2014 10:35:51 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5260611</guid> <dc:creator>world inside</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-03-07T10:35:51Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: How do you know whether you are ready for your first retreat or not?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5256108</link> <description>Hi, I just did a first retreat. 15 days.&lt;br /&gt;Not being able to sit that long did mean a world of physical pain and accomanied by thoughts and feelings of not being able to do meditation propperly.(giving myself permission, during longer sits, to stretch fixed that)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The setting was noble silence the whole time and ended with 3 days of determination. That is 72 hrs of non stop meditation, alternating walking and sitting.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;They did build up from 10 minutes each round(walking 10/sitting 10) adding 5 minutes each day..&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Still it was an experience I wouldn&amp;#039;t have wanted to have missed. And I can finaly do mediation me..&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Anyway just wanted to say that I wouldn&amp;#039;t have made the 60% score I think trying to score it myself.&lt;br /&gt;Even though in retrospect I was able to reach that before retreat I don&amp;#039;t think I would have seen it in that way suffering slight self-esteem issues.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;With Love&lt;br /&gt;Eelco</description> <pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2014 19:53:00 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5256108</guid> <dc:creator>Eelco ten Have</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-03-05T19:53:00Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: How do you know whether you are ready for your first retreat or not?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5255846</link> <description>Good stuff,&lt;br /&gt;In your opinion what percentage of people are having &amp;#034;problems&amp;#034; and what are the results of these problems? How serious is the problem? What is the solution after the problem has occurred? &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Warning people beforehand is great but I would also like to see proper encouragement.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I encourage people to start a daily practice. Amount of time increasing until it seems to be&amp;#034;working&amp;#034; towards your goals.&lt;br /&gt;I encourage people to find a competent teacher who can help in evaluating whether your ready for intensive retreat time.&lt;br /&gt;I encourage people to to do day long retreats to get used to the format of longer retreats&lt;br /&gt;I encourage people to read MCTB so they are informed about the benefits and &amp;#034;dangers&amp;#034; of intensive meditation&lt;br /&gt;I encourage people to trust their personal unfolding and follow their path incrementally without &amp;#034;grand planning&amp;#034; from the ego &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Good luck,&lt;br /&gt;~D</description> <pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2014 18:53:38 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5255846</guid> <dc:creator>Dream Walker</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-03-05T18:53:38Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>How do you know whether you are ready for your first retreat or not?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5255390</link> <description>My motivation towards writing this note was due an incident I’ve witnessed. I saw it occur once, on which I felt this could simply be the Karma Cycle or maybe even the evident effects of Dark Night. Those days, most of us were not a part of any common mediation societies, groups or discussions and it took me a while to see this incident re-occur. Today we see it in more numbers happening to people around, on which me and a few friends of mine, feel a &amp;#034;pre-retreat-prep&amp;#034; or atleast a cautious consideration is required. I know the below is not new to most of us and that 1st timer retreaters always manage to land into some issues. Additionally, this does not apply for all retreat centers - this is evidently seen in certain type of meditation centers especially where the Teacher:Student ratio is more than 1:10 or maybe a method/willingness to evaluation, assessment, validation of practise is not standardised.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Again - It is about how a mere passion driven decision to go on a retreat may cause more damage than progress. There are a few careful considerations of certain factors, one should consider before starting this voyage.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;One always expects retreats as a great opportunity to develop and deepen one’s wisdom, revive one’s practice, deepen concentration to a new level/stage/jhana, form effective groups for discussions and most importantly a chance to take a giant leap closer to your goal. However without careful consideration, I’ve seen this to not work as expected or planned. This is true especially at centres where access is granted, for all applicants, without evaluating the goals, condition or toughness. I’m not denying that access should be easy for all, however at times some screening for the betterment of the applicants itself is required.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Now, this is not a plea for all retreat Centres and facilities to change their admission process, but simply what one should do before/during one decides to go for a retreat. Points like country, visa, teacher’s profile (MCTB has this covered in detail), technique, ticket bookings, taxi, timings, cost, local guide, emergency procedures, local contacts in that country, sharing your where a bouts and contact medium to your family, etc.. we normally see been promptly followed by most. Mostly, the decision making factor seen is - how passionately one feels about doing this? However I feel it should be more on - how prepared one is for this challenge?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Retreats especially the most disciplined, guided and supervised are the most difficult ones, but most rewarding. Testing your readiness for such retreats is quite important to make the most out of it. Most importantly to avoid causing any harm to self while seeking the Ultimate benefits.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Below are some prime considerations, I feel are important as well:&lt;br /&gt;• Retreat Duration: The duration of the retreat decides upon what should be the level of preparedness and current state of mind and physical capability. Any retreat beyond 6 days of duration for first timers or beginners should be carefully assessed.&lt;br /&gt;• Code of Conduct: &lt;br /&gt; o Mostly concentration &amp;amp; insight meditation are to be practiced for most of the retreat time&lt;br /&gt; o Mostly in Retreats, only communication between the teacher and student is allowed, which is not even once in a day. This makes you follow “maun” &amp;#x2013; no communication at all with participants. &lt;br /&gt; o There are other conditions wherein one is required to wake up early at around 3:30 am in the morning. &lt;br /&gt; o In some places, food is served only once a day with some light snacks in the evening.&lt;br /&gt; o Most importantly, you are required to Meditate atleast 8 or more hours a day primarily in the sitting/lotus posture&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Then there are other considerations also like type of food served, water temperature, principle language of communication, taboos like not to use left hand while eating - however I do not believe this affects as much as the above points listed.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Overall, retreat duration and the code of conduct should be considered to the maximum I feel. If you are going on an intensive 12-day retreat with 8 hours or more of daily practise for example, one must first go for a dry run at home. Maybe on weekend, try and follow a similar schedule as that in the retreat centre. Example: Wake up early at 3:30am, check if you could sit for 8 hours or more in lotus/half-lotus position. Self-score the pain, uneasiness, sustainability, etc. During this 8 hours of dry run, perform both concentration and insight meditation to gauge your readiness and sustainability. Try following similar food habits and timings for a few days. Most importantly, understand you mental readiness now &amp;#x2013; identify when you perform both insight and concentration meditation in the ‘dry run’, how much is you mind able to cope up with this task. Identify the success percentage. If you can maintain your attention on insight or concentration practise for atleast more than an average of 75% I feel one should be fit for it. If it is above 60%, still I feel it is fine, however the reason for distraction needs to be analysed. Ensure it is not occurring due to a common reason for every single time there is lapse in concentration/mind wandering. If it is a single/common reason, normally it takes time to fix, whether they are - severe pain in some part of the body or some extra-crude mental impression of a recent emotional turmoil. It is better we improve success %, complete the dry run minimum threshold and then proceed. Below 60% scorer’s should not feel disappointed at all and might want to turn towards a lesser intensive path to calm the mind first before turning towards insight. One could start with simple Yogic exercises, evening walk with attempted mindfulness, mantra jaap, candle meditation, tune-in frequency or harmonizing sound balance therapy or might even consider a physiotherapy or a psychoanalysis.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Turning to an insight practise at this juncture (score less than 60%) would most probably mean multiplication of problems by going to a retreat (for which the dry run in similar conditions got you that score). Unless you are blessed with an excellent teacher as your saviour which could still may not negate the entire damage.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;• It is seen that people with an urban lifestyle including odd sleeping and eating habits. Addiction is totally a different topic altogether which I would not comment on since it is already been discussed in detail on several different platform on the web. In such cases, experience/feedback log of such individuals indicates extreme misery they undergo with this direct contrast in schedule of the retreat centre. &lt;br /&gt;• Many other people are distracted by, and get into multiple loops, over and over, with their neurotic content. Reaction and more reaction to the content make it more worst, a demon. Finally making them reach some scary decision making/conclusions in relationships, office, life, etc.&lt;br /&gt;• There are examples, wherein no serious issues are present in an individual, but they have simply below average concentration skills and face trouble. It occurs that more than 70% of the retreat mediation time (which is so calm, conducive and highly productive for any action) is spent in mind wandering in these cases. Both in past and future. Forget the hypothetical Karma Chakra which acts in cases when we live too much into the dooms of past of fear for future &amp;#x2013; but even this level of mind wandering would take individuals with already below average concentration levels to an unstable position. Even close to normal human being disturb their source of living, relationships and the rest. &lt;br /&gt;• The final category that has come to my experience is the ones who are too disturbed due to something or someone and are not even in condition to follow simple instructions successfully. Normally such individuals see and feel pain during insight practices. It is almost impossible in such cases to get the mind out and see mere sensations. Contents wind over technique and this again multiplies misery leading to consequences.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Me along with a few friends of mine have experienced numerous friends and relatives fall in one of the above category that somehow has led to their misery multiplication. Dark night causes scary phenomena if not seen “as it is” however the ones caused by improper practise and unplanned retreats are also quite serious and worth a disclaimer.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The ones with a self-evaluation score of above 70%, or even the ones reaching this benchmark after multiple attempts - for you this retreat is most likely to be a dream come true. All the best in this divine step forward you are planning. May your life be transformed into something beautiful - with lesser aversion, craving and ignorance! May maximum impurities be dissolved in every subsequent retreat!! Be Happy!!! Be Happy!!!</description> <pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2014 10:22:00 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5255390</guid> <dc:creator>world inside</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-03-05T10:22:00Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Feel the need to go on a long retreat after college</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5236637</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;sawfoot _:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I can&amp;#039;t really say if going on retreat and searching for meaning that way is any better or worse that starting up a business and that kind of path. And many say that to overcome the dark night (whatever that is) is about acceptance - dealing with circumstances of your life, not running away from pain or stress. So this was perception that you were looking for an escape. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;You&amp;#039;re right, I think I am looking for an escape. If I did go on retreat with that mindset, I would probably be in for a huge shock because I would realize that it is not fixing anything. During the time I had posted this thread, I was in a strange place. I still am but I have calmed down a bit over the past few days.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In terms of the business and all my other endeavors that aren&amp;#039;t meditation, I find joy in those activities and will continue to do them.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;sawfoot _:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;This shit is real and is not real. I would say don&amp;#039;t take anyone&amp;#039;s word for it (use those pinches of salt). To a large degree you have to figure it for yourself, and don&amp;#039;t believe everything you read as gospel (like once you are in the dark night you are stuck there as a dark night yogi cycling forever). If you believe these things strongly enough they can become self fulfilling prophecies and you can easily start to make mistaken casual attributions which leads to problems (feeling anxious about being in the dark night makes you anxious etc...).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I can&amp;#039;t comprehend how this is real and not real, but thats not a big deal. It feels real to me and I am doing my best at not getting attached to any mental stories. It has been a challenge and I have failed many times but I have learned. Thanks for the heads up too.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;sawfoot _:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;Just chill! Go to the gym, sleep, work hard, eat well, drink, be well, and be merry.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Right on man, thats the plan.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I appreciate your post and I enjoyed reading your perspective on things. Thank you!</description> <pubDate>Thu, 27 Feb 2014 01:17:30 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5236637</guid> <dc:creator>Jake WM</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-02-27T01:17:30Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Feel the need to go on a long retreat after college</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5236114</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Jake WM:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;Thanks saw foot you really made me realize how absurd I was sounding.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;What the F is the dark night? A concept? Why do I feel like this? Why do the things I feel coincide with what everyone else has felt at this particular time? The shit is going ON&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Jake, I wouldn&amp;#039;t say you are sounding absurd, and I am sorry if I am not being very helpful and confusing matters. This is going to happen on a site like this where you will get conflicting opinions. What I would say (which is just my humble opinion), is that you want to be happy in life it helps for life to have some meaning. Reading &amp;#034;the power of now&amp;#034; and having your world turned upside down has left you in a different place, where perhaps some of your notions of how life is and should be has been uprooted. People seek to find meaning in different places. A successful career, a good family, earning lots of money, or the search for enlightenment...I can&amp;#039;t really say if going on retreat and searching for meaning that way is any better or worse that starting up a business and that kind of path. And many say that to overcome the dark night (whatever that is) is about acceptance - dealing with circumstances of your life, not running away from pain or stress. So this was perception that you were looking for an escape. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This shit is real and is not real. I would say don&amp;#039;t take anyone&amp;#039;s word for it (use those pinches of salt). To a large degree you have to figure it for yourself, and don&amp;#039;t believe everything you read as gospel (like once you are in the dark night you are stuck there as a dark night yogi cycling forever). If you believe these things strongly enough they can become self fulfilling prophecies and you can easily start to make mistaken casual attributions which leads to problems (feeling anxious about being in the dark night makes you anxious etc...).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Just chill! Go to the gym, sleep, work hard, eat well, drink, be well, and be merry.</description> <pubDate>Wed, 26 Feb 2014 21:38:13 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5236114</guid> <dc:creator>sawfoot _</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-02-26T21:38:13Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Feel the need to go on a long retreat after college</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5235040</link> <description>Thanks saw foot you really made me realize how absurd I was sounding.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;What the F is the dark night? A concept? Why do I feel like this? Why do the things I feel coincide with what everyone else has felt at this particular time? The shit is going ON</description> <pubDate>Wed, 26 Feb 2014 14:55:03 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5235040</guid> <dc:creator>Jake WM</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-02-26T14:55:03Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Germany: Metta-Retreat by Bhante Sujato (Dec. 2013)</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5230071</link> <description>Hey BtB,&lt;br /&gt;I really liked your notes on the metta retreat. they gave me more information about the structure of the technique which was very helpful. i had been harboring an unsaid prejudice about metta practice; falsely categorizing it in my mind as an unstructured touchy-feely kinda thing. in a way it is just that but there is a method behind the &lt;strike&gt;madness&lt;/strike&gt; metta.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;feel good&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;tom</description> <pubDate>Mon, 24 Feb 2014 13:40:44 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5230071</guid> <dc:creator>tom moylan</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-02-24T13:40:44Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Germany: Metta-Retreat by Bhante Sujato (Dec. 2013)</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5226971</link> <description>I found another series of Metta talks by Bhante Sujato which contain more details about his technique. Those are weekly talks over 10 weeks. I listened through them completely and found them helpful. Look here, under &amp;#039;Retreats/2007 Metta Meditation Course&amp;#039;:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;http://santifm.org/santi/downloads/Retreats/&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;katy steger:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Could you point to where Mahasi writes about stream-entry and fruition?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Not sure what you&amp;#039;re getting at here. It was my understanding from MCTB that according to the Mahasi tradition, the first fruition equals stream entry. I looked at the &amp;#034;progress of insight&amp;#034;-text, and got the impression that it doesn&amp;#039;t contradict this view.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;katy steger:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Bernd:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt; At the moment, I&amp;#039;m inclined to tell everyone I know to go and practice Metta - maybe that&amp;#039;s actually not such a good idea then. (since I hardly know anyone who has done real insight practice...)&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt; How does your parenthetical comment here influence your experimentation/study of metta?&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;hm. Don&amp;#039;t know? Not much probably. Rereading that sentence, I don&amp;#039;t really remember what I was trying to say lol.</description> <pubDate>Sun, 23 Feb 2014 13:20:25 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5226971</guid> <dc:creator>bernd the broter</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-02-23T13:20:25Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Feel the need to go on a long retreat after college</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5226934</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Jake WM:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;. Hopefully some of the more experienced members of this board can give me some advice and point me in the right direction.&lt;br /&gt;.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Please don&amp;#039;t take any advice from me or take anything I say seriously as I am not an experienced member. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Jake WM:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I am 22 years old, from the US, and in my final semester of college. I have an opportunity to go on retreat soon after I graduate, sometime during the transition period between school and a job.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Difficult time isn&amp;#039;t it!?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Jake WM:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;br /&gt; I have no prior retreat experience and little meditation experience even though I meditate on a daily basis. I am also trying to start my own company with a friend of mine, something that seems promising, but due to my current state of being I feel like it is too big of a burden and puts a lot of stress on me. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Yes, it does sound stressful and a burden, trying to start a new company, particularly while trying to graduate. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Jake WM:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This start up, the job hunt, and class/school work are the main things I am currently working on. I do find time in the morning and during the day to meditate but I don&amp;#039;t feel like I am progressing at a fast enough rate, if at all.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Sounds like you are very busy, and don&amp;#039;t have much time to do meditation. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Jake WM:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;br /&gt; I feel like my current practice and lifestyle (nutrition, exercise, sleep) are the main factors that help me deal with the dark night to make it less of an issue in my life.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Eating well, sleeping well, exercising. These are good things to do while going through dark nights and bright days and those things in between. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Jake WM:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;br /&gt; However I have this constant feeling that I am uneasy and the main word to describe my state of consciousness is &amp;#039;spacey&amp;#039;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Hmmm. Uneasy, eh? Feelings stressed and overwhelmed?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Hmm...could that be anything to do with....life? &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Jake WM:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I am 100% sure that I am dicking around the stages of the dark night. I started a thread a while ago with the reason why I believe I have crossed the A&amp;amp;P and am currently in the dn stages. I can clarify this further if necessary. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;100% sure? Are you rounding up? Are you 100% sure the dark night that you are in even exists as a coherent concept?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Jake WM:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;My main practice consists of 20 minute sits where I concentrate on my breath. This helps stabilize me throughout the day but does not give me any insight. In terms of MTCB, I am reading through it now.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Do you have any large bags of salt? Would you able to take large pinches from them continually while reading that tome? Say, about every 4-5 seconds?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Jake WM:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Anyway, I think it would be extremely beneficial for me if I put life on hold in order to make progress (hopefully fast) through the DN or even further.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;What do you think that thing you will doing is on retreat which doesn&amp;#039;t involve living your life? Is putting life on hold your way of saying avoiding?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Jake WM:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Other than the feeling I have for needing to go on retreat, I have noticed on these forums that many people go on retreat early on in their quests. It has proven beneficial and further backs up my motivation to go on retreat as well.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Going on retreat will make you better at meditation, for shizzle. Not sure how much it will help you getting a job or starting up a new company. It will probably help you forget about those problems for a while though.</description> <pubDate>Sun, 23 Feb 2014 11:38:02 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5226934</guid> <dc:creator>sawfoot _</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-02-23T11:38:02Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Feel the need to go on a long retreat after college</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5226302</link> <description>Hi Jake WM,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;As the title says, I have an urge to go on a long retreat mainly to move on from the dark night and get stream entry.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;(...)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I am 100% sure that I am dicking around the stages of the dark night. I started a thread a while ago with the reason why I believe I have crossed the A&amp;amp;P and am currently in the dn stages. I can clarify this further if necessary. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;(...)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Other than the feeling I have for needing to go on retreat, I have noticed on these forums that many people go on retreat early on in their quests. It has proven beneficial and further backs up my motivation to go on retreat as well.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt; Adding to this thread for anyone who&amp;#039;s reading ~ here&amp;#039;s a sort of standard cautionary note: retreat centers, lay and monastic, can be chock full of other people (again, lay and monastic) who are also dwelling in the &amp;#034;dukkha nanas&amp;#034;, even the person who has been designated (by you or others) as &amp;#034;the teacher&amp;#034; or whoever has designated themselves &amp;#034;the teacher&amp;#034;, paid or free. Even a teacher with a touted reputation can be teaching from, say, a mind of arrogance, promoting its own expression/views over those of others. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Here are some guidelines for dharma teaching in the Pali tradition, paraphrased, from the &lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;accesstoinsight&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;tipitaka&amp;#x2f;an&amp;#x2f;an05&amp;#x2f;an05&amp;#x2e;159&amp;#x2e;than&amp;#x2e;html"&gt;Anguttara Nikaya 5.15 (to Udayi, transl. Thanissaro, reprinted AccesstoInsight)&lt;/a&gt;:&lt;br /&gt;A dharma teacher teaches:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;em&gt;1- step-by-step&lt;br /&gt;2- cause and effect (also commonly known as: &amp;#034;continent identity&amp;#034;, &amp;#034;inter-being&amp;#034;, &amp;#034;co-arising&amp;#034;, &amp;#034;dependent origination&amp;#034;)&lt;br /&gt;3- with a mind of compassion&lt;br /&gt;4- not for the purpose of material gains (including status)&lt;br /&gt;5- without disparaging self or others&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So if one goes on retreat (be it lay-led or monastic), one may have to work hard to be &amp;#034;an island unto oneself,&amp;#034; doing chores and all group activities without mixing own-pain with pain-of-others (which pains can appear as depression as much as malice). Three of the brahamviharas (kindness, altruistic joy, compassion) are sane reactive emotional states; equanimity (the fourth brahmavihara) is a deep safe harbor, however it can be mistaken with cool aloofness/conceit/superiority when one is still in dark night terrain.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;accesstoinsight&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;tipitaka&amp;#x2f;dn&amp;#x2f;dn&amp;#x2e;16&amp;#x2e;1-6&amp;#x2e;vaji&amp;#x2e;html"&gt;Maha-parinibbana Sutta &lt;/a&gt;(Digha Nikaya 16, translation: Vajira and Story, printed by AccesstoInsight):&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;33. &amp;#034;Therefore, Ananda, be islands unto yourselves, refuges unto yourselves, seeking no external refuge; with the Dhamma as your island, the Dhamma as your refuge, seeking no other refuge.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&amp;#034;And how, Ananda, is a bhikkhu an island unto himself, a refuge unto himself, seeking no external refuge; with the Dhamma as his island, the Dhamma as his refuge, seeking no other refuge?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;34. &amp;#034;When he dwells contemplating the body in the body, earnestly, clearly comprehending, and mindfully, after having overcome desire and sorrow in regard to the world; when he dwells contemplating feelings in feelings, the mind in the mind, and mental objects in mental objects, earnestly, clearly comprehending, and mindfully, after having overcome desire and sorrow in regard to the world, then, truly, he is an island unto himself, a refuge unto himself, seeking no external refuge; having the Dhamma as his island, the Dhamma as his refuge, seeking no other refuge.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;35. &amp;#034;Those bhikkhus of mine, Ananda, who now or after I am gone, abide as an island unto themselves, as a refuge unto themselves, seeking no other refuge; having the Dhamma as their island and refuge, seeking no other refuge: it is they who will become the highest, [20] if they have the desire to learn.&amp;#034;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt; One takes up a practice in which own mind is calming, not stressed, and not provoked into the hindrances (ill-will, craving, confusion, doubt, dullness). Nothing esoteric: Just developing the mind into calmness so that it can develop understanding of itself and objects it contacts, including the senses and its own consciousness and others.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Best wishes, retreatants! &lt;img alt="emoticon" src="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dho-theme/images/emoticons/happy.gif" &gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;[edited: link correction and some grammar]</description> <pubDate>Sun, 23 Feb 2014 01:22:13 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5226302</guid> <dc:creator>katy steger</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-02-23T01:22:13Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>Feel the need to go on a long retreat after college</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5224134</link> <description>As the title says, I have an urge to go on a long retreat mainly to move on from the dark night and get stream entry. Ill provide some background about myself and explain my current situation. Hopefully some of the more experienced members of this board can give me some advice and point me in the right direction.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I am 22 years old, from the US, and in my final semester of college. I have an opportunity to go on retreat soon after I graduate, sometime during the transition period between school and a job. I have no prior retreat experience and little meditation experience even though I meditate on a daily basis. I am also trying to start my own company with a friend of mine, something that seems promising, but due to my current state of being I feel like it is too big of a burden and puts a lot of stress on me. This start up, the job hunt, and class/school work are the main things I am currently working on. I do find time in the morning and during the day to meditate but I don&amp;#039;t feel like I am progressing at a fast enough rate, if at all. I feel like my current practice and lifestyle (nutrition, exercise, sleep) are the main factors that help me deal with the dark night to make it less of an issue in my life. However I have this constant feeling that I am uneasy and the main word to describe my state of consciousness is &amp;#039;spacey&amp;#039;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I am 100% sure that I am dicking around the stages of the dark night. I started a thread a while ago with the reason why I believe I have crossed the A&amp;amp;P and am currently in the dn stages. I can clarify this further if necessary. My main practice consists of 20 minute sits where I concentrate on my breath. This helps stabilize me throughout the day but does not give me any insight. In terms of MTCB, I am reading through it now.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Anyway, I think it would be extremely beneficial for me if I put life on hold in order to make progress (hopefully fast) through the DN or even further. My idea would be to go on retreat here in the US or somewhere else. I have not done any research on retreat centers yet because I am hoping to get some advice here before doing that.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Other than the feeling I have for needing to go on retreat, I have noticed on these forums that many people go on retreat early on in their quests. It has proven beneficial and further backs up my motivation to go on retreat as well.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thanks guys.</description> <pubDate>Sat, 22 Feb 2014 00:00:08 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5224134</guid> <dc:creator>Jake WM</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-02-22T00:00:08Z</dc:date> </item> </channel> </rss> 