<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?> <rss xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" version="2.0"> <channel> <title>Other Substances</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_category?p_l_id=&amp;mbCategoryId=5599683</link> <description>This is a place to discuss the effects of other substances on your practice. Please see the Stickied post at the top of this subcategory for Warnings and Guidelines.</description> <pubDate>Sun, 19 Oct 2014 00:59:12 GMT</pubDate> <dc:date>2014-10-19T00:59:12Z</dc:date> <item> <title>RE: Using LSD to Imprint the Tibetan-Buddhist Experience</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601592</link> <description>Maybe some of his hypothesis are a bit naive(NDE and birth canal). I believe though he&amp;#039;s drawing his conclusions simply from the wast experience in the field. His post WW2 work in Prague in the field of psychedelic psychology is vast and almost unique. I&amp;#039;d like to see other scientist do the same and confirm or deny his theories. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Grof distinguishes between two modes of consciousness: the hylotropic and the holotropic.[5] The hylotropic refers to &amp;#034;the normal, everyday experience of consensus reality.&amp;#034;[6] The holotropic refers to states which aim towards wholeness and the totality of existence. The holotropic is characteristic of non-ordinary states of consciousness such as meditative, mystical, or psychedelic experiences.[7] According to Grof, these non-ordinary states are often categorized by contemporary psychiatry as psychotic.[7] Grof connects the hylotropic to the Hindu conception of namarupa (&amp;#034;name and form&amp;#034;), the separate, individual, illusory self. He connects the holotropic to the Hindu conception of Atman-Brahman, the divine, &lt;strong&gt;true nature of the self.&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Now isn&amp;#039;t that an interesting view? Heh.</description> <pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2014 12:36:17 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601592</guid> <dc:creator>ftw</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-09T12:36:17Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Using LSD to Imprint the Tibetan-Buddhist Experience</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601578</link> <description>I am actually most of the way through The Transpersonal Vision, an audiobook on Sounds True by Grof about all of that, and it is an enjoyable and intresting listen. Some of the stuff about early childhood stuff rings slightly naive to this post-Freudian ear, but what do I know? Still, his experiments and experiences were very interesting. My mom actually taught holotropic breathing for years and it actually caused a number of friends to cross the A&amp;amp;P while doing it.</description> <pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2014 11:59:54 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601578</guid> <dc:creator>Daniel M. Ingram</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-09T11:59:54Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Using LSD to Imprint the Tibetan-Buddhist Experience</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601514</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Droll Dedekind:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;I don&amp;#039;t think anyone here believes entheogens cause any significant lasting change in themselves. But, with a proper set and setting I do believe lasting changes can be made. At least, psychological changes are definitely possible. I believe Leary conceived of it like this: If entheogens were legal there would be professionals whose job is to help people plan reimprinting trips, and then guide people through the trip (or several trips) in a safe environment with the appropriate props. IIRC, for example, Leary took a group of prisoners, gave them LSD, and then in a safe environment showed them art, played classical music, and read from the Buddhist canon. After a year of being out of jail something like 80% of the prisoners remained out of prison. I believe on average 80% of prisoners are back in jail after a year of being let out.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I also think it&amp;#039;s plausible that entheogens can be used judiciously to have mystical experiences, and possibly, a &amp;#034;Clear Light&amp;#034; experience (however temporary). How many of the people you know setup the trip with intentions of attaining to mystical states? Did they bring pointers and/or a guru/teacher to the trip?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&amp;#039;m with Crowley and Regardie on this, as I quoted in an earlier post. Having a taste of mystical states can be highly motivating.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Stanislav Grof did all that legaly until LSD was made Schedule 1 in 60/70. When LSD was banned he and his wife (RIP) developed new legal methods for helping patients and continue his work - holotropic breathing. He did thousands of hours of sitting with patients on LSD. He&amp;#039;s a giant in the field.&lt;br /&gt;One of his books well worth reading:&lt;br /&gt;&amp;#034;LSD: Doorway to the Numinous: The Groundbreaking Psychedelic Research into Realms of the Human Unconscious by Stanislav Grof M.D.&amp;#034;</description> <pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2014 07:49:24 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601514</guid> <dc:creator>ftw</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-09T07:49:24Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Using LSD to Imprint the Tibetan-Buddhist Experience</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601148</link> <description>I don&amp;#039;t think anyone here believes entheogens cause any significant lasting change in themselves. But, with a proper set and setting I do believe lasting changes can be made. At least, psychological changes are definitely possible. I believe Leary conceived of it like this: If entheogens were legal there would be professionals whose job is to help people plan reimprinting trips, and then guide people through the trip (or several trips) in a safe environment with the appropriate props. IIRC, for example, Leary took a group of prisoners, gave them LSD, and then in a safe environment showed them art, played classical music, and read from the Buddhist canon. After a year of being out of jail something like 80% of the prisoners remained out of prison. I believe on average 80% of prisoners are back in jail after a year of being let out.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I also think it&amp;#039;s plausible that entheogens can be used judiciously to have mystical experiences, and possibly, a &amp;#034;Clear Light&amp;#034; experience (however temporary). How many of the people you know setup the trip with intentions of attaining to mystical states? Did they bring pointers and/or a guru/teacher to the trip?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&amp;#039;m with Crowley and Regardie on this, as I quoted in an earlier post. Having a taste of mystical states can be highly motivating.</description> <pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2014 17:59:39 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601148</guid> <dc:creator>Droll Dedekind</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-08T17:59:39Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Substance Warnings and Guidelines</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601127</link> <description>The 25i-nBome being mistakenly taken/sold as acid is an issue in the drug community, but it is very easy to tell the difference with minimal drug knowledge. Both 25i/25c and LSD are potent enough to be put on blotters and not much else is nearly strong enough to have effects at sub-1mg doses. LSD takes like nothing or has a slight metallic taste depending on how it is produced. 25i numbs the tongue and tastes horrible. One could try a tab and simply spit it out if it tastes like 25i. But in reality, everyone should be getting thier drugs from reputable venders on the internet. Also LSD is still mass produced and very profitable. Tryptamines are wonderful substances. There is something very special and definately useful in meditation and emotional introspection about them. They have had nothing but positive influence on my life, but it is important to note that everyone reacts to drugs differently and they are not for everyone.. </description> <pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2014 17:19:06 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601127</guid> <dc:creator>Jimmy First</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-08T17:19:06Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Using LSD to Imprint the Tibetan-Buddhist Experience</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5600972</link> <description>I agree with the point about entheogens not ending seeking, or at least that I know of no reports of such, and I know a lot of people who have done A LOT of entheogens, some over decades. I don&amp;#039;t see any of them who have the deep wisdom and direct comprehension, the walking-around perceptual baseline transformations, or the ability on their own power to access the things that I see at the more accomplished end of those who do vipassana and samatha well. It is not that some of them haven&amp;#039;t gained some relative wisdom from those experiences, as some have, but the more fundamental stuff I don&amp;#039;t see happening from those things.</description> <pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2014 09:34:17 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5600972</guid> <dc:creator>Daniel M. Ingram</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-08T09:34:17Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Using LSD to Imprint the Tibetan-Buddhist Experience</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5600919</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Eric M W:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;Daniel had a post quite a while ago where he said that he wished there was a way to give people &amp;#034;peeks&amp;#034; of 4th path, using some kind of pharmaceuticals or other means. Something like &amp;#034;This procedure will remove any sense of agency/doer/perceiver for approx. 30 minutes, if you do vipassana your experience can be like this all the time.&amp;#034;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Let us know how this person&amp;#039;s experience goes, it could be interesting.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Reminds me of this quote....&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;dharmaoverground&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;web&amp;#x2f;guest&amp;#x2f;discussion&amp;#x2f;-&amp;#x2f;message_boards&amp;#x2f;message&amp;#x2f;85539"&gt;A Definition of Hell &lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Chris Marti:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;Forum: Dharma Overground Discussion Forum&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Seeing the world as it is, having at least once pierced the veil in front of you, yet not able to abide in that frame of reference.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;I had a peek and would say there is frustration in this...but what is needed in this moment, to fix this moment...looking carefully at this - do I need a drug, cookie, exercise, thought, memory of a peek, meditation, etc  to &amp;#034;fix&amp;#034; now? It is laughable, except it isn&amp;#039;t; until the joke plays out.&lt;br /&gt;~D</description> <pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2014 05:51:50 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5600919</guid> <dc:creator>Dream Walker</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-08T05:51:50Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Using LSD to Imprint the Tibetan-Buddhist Experience</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5600622</link> <description>Daniel had a post quite a while ago where he said that he wished there was a way to give people &amp;#034;peeks&amp;#034; of 4th path, using some kind of pharmaceuticals or other means. Something like &amp;#034;This procedure will remove any sense of agency/doer/perceiver for approx. 30 minutes, if you do vipassana your experience can be like this all the time.&amp;#034;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Let us know how this person&amp;#039;s experience goes, it could be interesting.</description> <pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2014 17:53:30 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5600622</guid> <dc:creator>Eric M W</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-07T17:53:30Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Using LSD to Imprint the Tibetan-Buddhist Experience</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5600532</link> <description>Yes, I agree completely, besides maybe &amp;#034;release of all karmic propensities and fetters is liberation&amp;#034;. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Israel Regardie took a sane position on all this. He was an advocate of the Golden Dawn system of magick. Great Work = Enlightenment&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;Hyatt:&lt;br /&gt;Some people in the occult field are very critical about the use of what are known as psychedelic drugs. What is your feeling about this?&lt;br /&gt;Regardie:&lt;br /&gt;I&amp;#039;d have to remark first of all, that the Golden Dawn, perse, never approved of the use of psychedelics or any drugs. That&amp;#039;s only one part of the story. The other pan of the story is that throughout history, as far back as we can go, we know there is evidence, that many of the gurus in India, Tibet, Israel, and other parts of the world, relied on the use of psychedelics for many purposes. Crowley probably had the wisest and sanest approach to this whole problem, and that was that the beginner in the Great Work only has vague hopes of achieving certain psycho-spiritual states; he has no direct knowledge of them. Therefore, with the judicial use of some of these drugs he might be given a foretaste of where he is going, and what he is working for. Once he tasted that, once having experienced that, he might be willing to make the expenditure of time and effort in following the other exercises and disciplines that would help him to get to where he wants to go without the aid of drugs.&lt;br /&gt;Hyatt:&lt;br /&gt;Some people who I have talked to over the years have said that there is no need for psychotherapy, no need for the Golden Dawn, no need for self-work. They firmly believe that the simple use of these substances would be more than sufficient to bring a person to their higher and divine self.&lt;br /&gt;Regardie:&lt;br /&gt;Totally untrue as I know you would agree from your own observations. I don&amp;#039;t think there is any evidence to support and warrant that. The drugs produce a state which is akin and analogous to some of the mystical states. But as the drug wears off, so does the state wear off, and there is very little recollection and very little endurance of the psychedelic state. So therefore, that idea really doesn&amp;#039;t hold water. The combination of the use of the psychedelics AND the various disciplines, train the mind, train the psyche, train the organism of the student or the practitioner, to retain within his consciousness,  within his organism  not  merely consciousness per se, but to retain the memory of the spiritual state he has experienced, and therefore enable him AT WILL to return to that state whenever he so desires.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description> <pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2014 13:59:19 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5600532</guid> <dc:creator>Droll Dedekind</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-07T13:59:19Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Using LSD to Imprint the Tibetan-Buddhist Experience</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5600392</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Droll Dedekind:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;Perfect link, thank you. Tommy&amp;#039;s experience seems to confirm that LSD can be used to gain insight. &lt;strong&gt;I would be fascinated to read similar experiences and see if there&amp;#039;s a consensus or trend.&lt;/strong&gt; SWIM might try similar experiments with shrooms or even MDMA.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I wonder the full extent to which the setup can influence the experience. I imagine that a carefully crafted setting, with a week+ of affirming resolutions towards generalized goals would probably yield optimal benefits. Using Leary&amp;#039;s general guidelines I believe the DhO could write even more pointy pointers for seeing the Clear Light, having a PCE, etc&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Recently I read two books on DMT. &amp;#034;DMT, the spirit molecule&amp;#034; and &amp;#034;Tryptamine Palace: 5-MeO-DMT and the Sonoran Desert Toad&amp;#034;. Those two books really changed my views about entheogens in general. Some of the stuff in Tryptamine Palace is pure speculation and wishfull thinking though. I&amp;#039;m just not ready to accept speculations on &amp;#034;zero point field&amp;#034; and human consciousness. Oh and A. Huxley&amp;#039;s  &amp;#034;Dors of perception&amp;#034;.  Lots of descritpions of &amp;#034;no self&amp;#034; experiences in those books. Intruiging to say the least.</description> <pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2014 10:12:48 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5600392</guid> <dc:creator>ftw</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-07T10:12:48Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Using LSD to Imprint the Tibetan-Buddhist Experience</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5600350</link> <description>I hope you do not get the false impression that drugs are a path of insight... they are not. They can result in peak experiences, they can set a&lt;strong&gt;&lt;em&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;em&gt;&lt;/em&gt; person (often having no prior experiences with spirituality) into a path of spiritual &lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;seeking&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt;, they generally do not &lt;strong&gt;&lt;em&gt;end seeking&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;. It may be helpful to some in the sense that many people started their path towards awakening through whatever transient glimpses and experiences they may have had with psychedelics. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;But we should not have false expectations that psychedelics will somehow result in the &amp;#039;final awakening&amp;#039; or &amp;#039;the end of seeking&amp;#039;. There simply is no instant enlightenment pill. No amount of psychedelics can replace the vital role of a strong contemplative practice (e.g. hardcore vipassana practice, or zazen/koan/mahamudra/dzogchen, etc etc). That would only be possible through earnest vipassana (or any form of insight practices) practice. Sometimes people attain awakening when meditating, for me it was when I was marching in the army and contemplating on the Bahiya Sutta, some people got enlightened when hearing a cup break, very few (Tommy the only one I heard -- I believe he already attained the higher MCTB paths prior to that) attained some strong insight while on psychedelics. It can happen in any setting as long as one is already having a contemplative practice going on. Psychedelics may be a short cut to glimpses and peak experiences, but not a short cut to liberation.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;When your contemplative practice is strong, (e.g. directly apperceiving the three characteristics in every sensation), it naturally carries on in all states and experiences -- be it when using psychedelics, or marching, or meditating, etc. That is the main trigger for insight... not any particular setting imo (although it is important to have good setting).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Also, I personally do not practice AF, so I do not follow the path of &amp;#039;cultivating PCEs&amp;#039;. To me, PCE becomes natural and effortless as the result of insights and realization, so it is best to focus on that (insight) rather than experiences. (On this topic, see http://dharmaconnectiongroup.blogspot.de/2014/02/no-mind-and-anatta-focusing-on-insight.html)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Experience is not realization, realization is not liberation. Full actualization of insight/realization and release of all karmic propensities and fetters is liberation.</description> <pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2014 08:55:14 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5600350</guid> <dc:creator>An Eternal Now</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-07T08:55:14Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Using LSD to Imprint the Tibetan-Buddhist Experience</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5600128</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Eric M W:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;I&amp;#039;ve never really understood &amp;#034;ego loss&amp;#034; as used in the psychoactive community. What is it, exactly? And are we using Freud&amp;#039;s definition of ego or something else?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Check out the wiki link - &lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;en&amp;#x2e;wikipedia&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;wiki&amp;#x2f;Sense_of_agency"&gt;Sense_of_agency&lt;/a&gt; It will explain it from a psychology point of view....there are other things that make up the self besides just sense of agency and sense of ownership... Check out the book &amp;#034;The Ego Tunnel&amp;#034; for a more in depth discussion of the various processes that create the selfing process. It&amp;#039;s a really good book.&lt;br /&gt;~D</description> <pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2014 00:02:54 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5600128</guid> <dc:creator>Dream Walker</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-07T00:02:54Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Using LSD to Imprint the Tibetan-Buddhist Experience</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5600112</link> <description>Perfect link, thank you. Tommy&amp;#039;s experience seems to confirm that LSD can be used to gain insight. I would be fascinated to read similar experiences and see if there&amp;#039;s a consensus or trend. SWIM might try similar experiments with shrooms or even MDMA.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I wonder the full extent to which the setup can influence the experience. I imagine that a carefully crafted setting, with a week+ of affirming resolutions towards generalized goals would probably yield optimal benefits. Using Leary&amp;#039;s general guidelines I believe the DhO could write even more pointy pointers for seeing the Clear Light, having a PCE, etc</description> <pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2014 23:00:15 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5600112</guid> <dc:creator>Droll Dedekind</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-06T23:00:15Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Substance Warnings and Guidelines</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5600108</link> <description>Yes, true LSD is these days generally not available. It is not profitable to make and sell, so it isn&amp;#039;t.</description> <pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2014 22:57:17 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5600108</guid> <dc:creator>_</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-06T22:57:17Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Substance Warnings and Guidelines</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5600103</link> <description>Daniel:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Arial"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;If you will note, in the descriptor, it states prescribed pharmaceuticals.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Arial"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;Yes, I know it does. But it doesn&amp;#039;t say for whom. So this is the same as just saying &amp;#034;prescription drugs,&amp;#034; with no implication that we are talking about use of legit medication for legit conditions in that subsection. </description> <pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2014 22:51:08 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5600103</guid> <dc:creator>_</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-06T22:51:08Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Using LSD to Imprint the Tibetan-Buddhist Experience</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5600048</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Eric M W:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;I&amp;#039;ve never really understood &amp;#034;ego loss&amp;#034; as used in the psychoactive community. What is it, exactly? And are we using Freud&amp;#039;s definition of ego or something else?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;I am familiar with the &amp;#034;Clear Light&amp;#034; terminology because of &lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;amazon&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;Tibetan-Yogas-Dream-Sleep&amp;#x2f;dp&amp;#x2f;1559391014"&gt;this book on dream yoga&lt;/a&gt;, but I&amp;#039;ve never equated it with ego loss. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;See Tommy McNally&amp;#039;s thread http://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/message/3081514 &amp;#034;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;dharmaoverground&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;discussion&amp;#x2f;-&amp;#x2f;message_boards&amp;#x2f;message&amp;#x2f;3081514&amp;#x23;_19_message_3083986"&gt;&lt;strong&gt;LSD &amp;amp; PCE: An Empirical Experiment&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&amp;#034; -- he expresses his insights into anatta and experience of PCE in this thread along with experimentation on LSD.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Regarding &amp;#039;ego loss&amp;#039; -- there are different degrees and faces of self/Self (as I explained in http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com.br/2014/07/insight-diagnosis-simplified.html). Some people are able to experience the total dissolution of self/Self resulting in No Mind experience. AF Richard said his path to Actual Freedom began in 1980 after ingesting a psychedelic drug called psylocibin, resulting in a 4 hour PCE experience. (However, he does not recommend psychedelics in general as it often leads to an ASC or &amp;#039;Big Self experience&amp;#039;. Personally, I do not have anything against an &amp;#039;ASC&amp;#039; even if it means there is not yet the complete dissolution of all self/Self) Some people experience impersonality and dissolution into an impersonal all-pervasive greater Life. Of course, the results of psychedelics differs on each individual. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In any case, usually psychedelics can at most result in only transient, peak experiences. Tommy seems to have some fundamental insights that lastingly shifted his perception during a LSD trip, but that is probably because he had already been engaging in some heavy contemplation for a long time prior to it.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Anyway here&amp;#039;s another thread on ego loss: &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;http://www.reddit.com/r/LSD/comments/1z4euc/ego_death/&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;reddit&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;r&amp;#x2f;LSD&amp;#x2f;comments&amp;#x2f;1z4euc&amp;#x2f;ego_death&amp;#x2f;"&gt;Ego Death&lt;/a&gt;(&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;reddit&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;r&amp;#x2f;LSD&amp;#x2f;"&gt;self.LSD&lt;/a&gt;)submitted 7 months ago by &lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;reddit&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;user&amp;#x2f;dalebewan"&gt;dalebewan&lt;/a&gt;Recently, a few people have asked me about &amp;#034;ego death&amp;#034; over on my facebook page and I&amp;#039;ve seen a few posts here mentioning it.There seems to be a few misconceptions out there, so let me try to clear it up.Ego death is a specific experience that can occur on high doses of psychedelics (such as LSD; but by no means limited to LSD).A lot of people describe any powerful psychedelic experience as &amp;#039;ego &lt;br /&gt;death&amp;#039;. This is wrong. You can have extremely powerful experiences &lt;br /&gt;without ego death.Other people describe the sudden realisation of one&amp;#039;s place in the &lt;br /&gt;universe (tiny and insignificant) as ego death. This is also wrong.Yet more people describe powerful &amp;#034;bad trips&amp;#034; where they experience &lt;br /&gt;something akin to their own death as &amp;#034;ego death&amp;#034;. Also, this is wrong.These misunderstandings come from a false understanding of the &lt;br /&gt;phrase. &amp;#034;Ego&amp;#034; in this case doesn&amp;#039;t mean egotistical, it simply means &amp;#034;&lt;em&gt;the self&lt;/em&gt;&amp;#034;.What the experience of ego death is, is the loss of the sense of self&lt;br /&gt; entirely. The words &amp;#034;I&amp;#034;, &amp;#034;me&amp;#034;, &amp;#034;myself&amp;#034; and so on have no meaning in &lt;br /&gt;this state. Normally, you can divide the world in to &amp;#034;myself&amp;#034; and &lt;br /&gt;&amp;#034;everything outside of myself&amp;#034;. When experiencing ego death, the &lt;br /&gt;&amp;#034;myself&amp;#034; part is gone. Everything else is still there (potentially the &lt;br /&gt;real world; potentially a fantasy world), but YOU are not. The &lt;br /&gt;experience still exists, and when your ego returns, the &amp;#034;you&amp;#034; that has &lt;br /&gt;come back can (usually) remember the environment that was, but has no &lt;br /&gt;way to explain - even to itself - what it was that experienced that &lt;br /&gt;environment.It&amp;#039;s a very difficult experience to explain of course; because human &lt;br /&gt;languages are totally unsuited to the explanation of an environment &lt;br /&gt;without something experiencing it (the idea of &amp;#034;looking at&amp;#034; or &amp;#034;hearing&amp;#034;&lt;br /&gt; or &amp;#034;feeling&amp;#034; are all experiences that &amp;#039;someone&amp;#039; has. Without a &lt;br /&gt;&amp;#039;someone&amp;#039;, how do you describe it?).If someone talks about an ego death experience and says &amp;#034;I saw...&amp;#034; or&lt;br /&gt; especially &amp;#034;I felt...&amp;#034;, they&amp;#039;re not talking about ego death. The kinds &lt;br /&gt;of words that someone might use would be more along the lines of &amp;#034;there &lt;br /&gt;was...&amp;#034;. Not &amp;#034;I felt at peace&amp;#034;, but &amp;#034;there was peace&amp;#034;. Not &amp;#034;I saw &lt;br /&gt;light&amp;#034;, but &amp;#034;there was light&amp;#034;.I&amp;#039;ve experienced ego death a total of 5 times in my life and I &lt;br /&gt;remember each one vividly to this day. It&amp;#039;s not scary as it&amp;#039;s happening,&lt;br /&gt; because there is no &amp;#034;you&amp;#034; to be scared. The first time I experienced &lt;br /&gt;it, I was extremely scared afterwards - I had no idea how to explain it &lt;br /&gt;to myself. Once I processed it, I became more comfortable with it, and &lt;br /&gt;now I can honestly say I look forward to the next time.&lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;en&amp;#x2e;wikipedia&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;wiki&amp;#x2f;Ego_death"&gt;Wikipedia&amp;#039;s explanation&lt;/a&gt; is possibly about as clumsy as mine, but if my description didn&amp;#039;t help you, maybe it can.</description> <pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2014 22:14:49 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5600048</guid> <dc:creator>An Eternal Now</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-06T22:14:49Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Using LSD to Imprint the Tibetan-Buddhist Experience</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5600043</link> <description>The word has become practically meaningless, but I assume he&amp;#039;s referring to the sense of Watcher, Doer, Perceiver, Defender. If I understand correctly, he&amp;#039;s recommending Third Gear pointers during the trip so as to surrender the sense of self and get a taste of consciousness without conceptualization, categorization, or &amp;#039;mental-conceptual redundancy&amp;#039; -- the Clear Light... assuming the sense of self is just another redunant conceptual overlay or distortion.</description> <pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2014 22:11:47 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5600043</guid> <dc:creator>Droll Dedekind</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-06T22:11:47Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Using LSD to Imprint the Tibetan-Buddhist Experience</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5600022</link> <description>I&amp;#039;ve never really understood &amp;#034;ego loss&amp;#034; as used in the psychoactive community. What is it, exactly? And are we using Freud&amp;#039;s definition of ego or something else?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;I am familiar with the &amp;#034;Clear Light&amp;#034; terminology because of &lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;amazon&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;Tibetan-Yogas-Dream-Sleep&amp;#x2f;dp&amp;#x2f;1559391014"&gt;this book on dream yoga&lt;/a&gt;, but I&amp;#039;ve never equated it with ego loss. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description> <pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2014 21:46:55 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5600022</guid> <dc:creator>Eric M W</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-06T21:46:55Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Substance Warnings and Guidelines</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5600010</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;I agree: I know of no wisdom that has come to anyone from opiates beyond those things related to opiates themselves, namely that they control pain, are constipating, sedating and very addictive, can make people vomit, cause rashes, rapidly induce tolerance, may amplify the perception of pain once tolerance has set in, have a nasty withdrawal period, and have other downsides.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;Oh, there&amp;#039;s another kind of (conventional) wisdom that come with opiates. I now understand why some unfortunate people spend their entire lives chasing their next high at the expense of everything else. Which is a sad insight.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;As to entheogens, the purist in me would like a world where people simply did clean meditative practices, attained to wisdom and a range of attention-control competencies on thier own power, and that was that. Then we have the real world...&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;Hey, me too! &lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;In the real world, loads of people do entheogens, and some get wisdom from them. Others freak out on them. Some just have strange or interesting experiences. Some have serious side effects. Most don&amp;#039;t. A few end up in jail, psychotic or dead. &lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I agree that we live in a world where almost everyone has taken some kind of entheogen, and one could argue that psychoactives in general have played an important part in human history and evolution for tens of thousands of years. That being said, one could make the case that entheogens cover A&amp;amp;P territory. I personally have never heard of anyone getting stream-entry on LSD, though I could very well be wrong, and I would like to hear about it if it has happened.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Another thing worth considering: if someone drops acid and crosses the A&amp;amp;P without knowing what was happening, they&amp;#039;ve got a big problem. It is true that the A&amp;amp;P can zap people simply going about their lives, but entheogens make it more likely to happen without meditative training.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;That said, in my own life, it is entirely possible and actually very likely that, had a good friend not dropped 4 hits of acid one day and crossed the A&amp;amp;P, which later lead to all sorts of other relatively beneficial effects, I would have never found the meditative things that I found.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;Well, true, I suppose none of us would be here if he hadn&amp;#039;t done that. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;As many have noted here, there are insights that come from them, and plenty of people get into meditative territory on them that they couldn&amp;#039;t have dreamed of until that point. Unfortunately, it is a total crap-shoot, and there is no telling if someone will get insights or have something bad happen. The risks, in my view, are definitely higher with entheogens. That said, intensive meditation practice is not necessarily safe either, as plenty here will attest. Were there not the legal stigma around these things, perhaps real science could be done to help sort this out. Until then, we have case reports of variable quality and communities to help make sense of what happens in the real world.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Speaking of legal stigma, I feel inclined to say that anyone posting about the use of entheogens should take the necessary steps to anonymize themselves, such as talking about &amp;#034;a friend of a friend&amp;#034; instead of themselves.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Hopefully the drug war will come to an end in the next couple of decades, but Americans have a bad habit of electing the same morons over and over...</description> <pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2014 21:36:36 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5600010</guid> <dc:creator>Eric M W</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-06T21:36:36Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Substance Warnings and Guidelines</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5600002</link> <description>The legal issues are still different, but I agree, there is tons of prescription drug abuse. I have days when it may be a significant portion of the reason for up to half of my patients coming to the ED one way or the other.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If you will note, in the descriptor, it states prescribed pharmaceuticals.</description> <pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2014 21:23:15 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5600002</guid> <dc:creator>Daniel M. Ingram</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-06T21:23:15Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Substance Warnings and Guidelines</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5599984</link> <description>Daniel:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;I totally agree that prescribed pharmaceuticals can cause all sorts of complex side effects, but the legal issues are different.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;The legal issues are different so long as the pharmaceuticals are prescribed by a licensed medical provider specifically for the person taking them; therefore, could you slightly edit the sticky to make clear that when you say &amp;#034;pharmaceuticals&amp;#034; you are talking about those lawfully prescribed for the person taking them? My neurologist has been through all kinds of crazy situations--for example, a patient stole his prescription pad and went on a controlled substance spree across three counties. My son&amp;#039;s friends have stolen prescribed controlled substances from me. And so forth. There is a huge, huge black market of prescription drugs used recreationally, and my son and his friends tell me that these substances are the main &amp;#034;party&amp;#034; substances used and abused these days. As a licensed physician, I&amp;#039;m sure you get what I&amp;#039;m saying. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;And, yes, prescribed drugs can and do cause a myriad of harms even when prescribed conscientiously and legally, whereas certain illegal substances are only minimally risky, if at all. This is something we can discuss here.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I have a lot of personal information/learning to share about supplements, as well as SNRIs and anticonvulsants, and how they can affect bodymind states and practice, so I agree that these discussions are constructive to have.</description> <pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2014 20:44:30 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5599984</guid> <dc:creator>_</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-06T20:44:30Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>Using LSD to Imprint the Tibetan-Buddhist Experience</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5599971</link> <description>https://www.erowid.org/culture/characters/leary_timothy/leary_timothy_lsd1.shtml&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I figure this is a worthy topic to kick off the drug section. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;WARNING: I have not personally tried this experiment nor do I know of anyone who has, so I have no idea if it will work. Follow these instructions at your own risk. Contrary to some misconceptions, Leary was probably the foremost expert on safe and transformative LSD trips, so if you follow the instructions carefully you&amp;#039;ll probably be safe and it might just work.&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;What is the goal? Classic Hinduism suggests four possibilities:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;ol style="list-style: decimal outside;"&gt;&lt;li&gt;Increased personal power, intellectual understanding, sharpened&lt;br /&gt; insight into self and culture, improvement of life situation,&lt;br /&gt; accelerated learning, professional growth.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Duty, help of others, providing care, rehabilitation, rebirth for&lt;br /&gt; fellow men.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Fun, sensuous enjoyment, esthetic pleasure, interpersonal closeness,&lt;br /&gt; pure experience.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Trancendence, liberation from ego and space-time limits; attainment of&lt;br /&gt; mystical union.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ol&gt;The manual&amp;#039;s primary emphasis on the last goal does not preclude other goals - in fact, it guarantees their attainment because illumination requires that the person be able to step out beyond problems of personality, role, and professional status. The initiate can decide before hand to devote their psychedelic experience to any of the four goals.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In the extroverted transcendent experience, the self is ecstatically fused with external objects (e.g., flowers, other people). In the introverted state, the self is ecstatically fused with internal life processes (lights, energy waves, bodily events, biological forms, etc.). Either state may be negative rather than positive, depending on the voyager&amp;#039;s set and setting. For the extroverted mystic experience, one would bring to the session candles, pictures, books, incense, music, or recorded passages to guide the awareness in the desired direction. An introverted experience requires eliminating all stimulation: no light, no sound, no smell, no movement.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;...&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Preparation&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Psychedelic chemicals are not drugs in the usual sense of the word. There is no specific somatic or psychological reaction. The better the preparation, the more ecstatic and relevatory the session. In initial sessions with unprepared persons, set and setting - particularly the actions of others - are most important. Long-range set refers to personal history, enduring personality, the kind of person you are. Your fears, desires, conflicts, guilts, secret passions, determine how you interpret and manage any psychedelic session. Perhaps more important are the reflex mechanisms, defenses, protective maneuvers, typically employed when dealing with anxiety. Flexibility, basic trust,philosophic faith, human openness, courage, interpersonal warmth, creativity, allow for fun and easy learning. Rigidity, desire to control, distrust, cynicism, narrowness, cowardice, coldness, make any new situation threatening. Most important is insight. The person who has some understanding of his own machinery, who can recognize when he is not functioning as he would wish, is better able to adapt to any challenge - even the sudden collapse of his ego.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Immediate set refers to expections about the session itself. People naturally tend to impose personal and social perspectives on any new situation. For example, some ill-prepared subjects unconsciously impose a medical model on the experience. They look for symptoms, interpret each new sensation in terms of sickness/health, and, if anxiety develops, demand tranquilizers. Occasionally, ill-planned sessions end  in the subject demanding to see a doctor.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Rebellion against convention may motivate some people who take the drug. The naive idea of doing something &amp;#034;far out&amp;#034; or vaguely naughty can cloud the experience.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;LSD offers vast possibilities of accelerated learning and scientific-scholarly research, but for initial sessions, intellectual reactions can become traps. &amp;#034;Turn your mind off&amp;#034; is the best advice for novitiates. After you have learned how to move your consciousness around - into ego loss and back, at will - then intellectual exercises can be incorporated into the psychedelic experience. The objective is to free you from your verbal mind for as long as possible.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Religious expectations invite the same advice. Again, the subject in early sessions is best advised to float with the stream, stay &amp;#034;up&amp;#034; as long as possible, and postpone theological interpretations.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Recreational and esthetic expectations are natural. The psychedelic experience provides ecstatic moments that dwarf any personal or cultural game. Pure sensation can capture awareness. Interpersonal intimacy reaches Himalayan heights. Esthetic delights - musical, artistic, botanical, natural - are raised to the millionth power. But ego-game reactions - &amp;#034;I am having this ecstasy. How lucky I am!&amp;#034; - can prevent the subject from reaching pure ego loss.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;...&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;The Period of Ego Loss or Non-Game Ecstasy&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Success implies very unusual preparation in consciousness expansion, as well as much calm, compassionate game playing (good karma) on the part of the participant. If the participant can see and grasp the idea of the empty mind as soon as the guide reveals it -that is to say, if he has the power to die consciously- and, at the supreme moment of quitting the ego, can recognize the ecstasy that will dawn upon him and become one with it, then all bonds of illusion are broken asunder immediately: the dreamer is awakened into reality simultaneously with the mighty achievement of recognition.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It is best if the guru from whom the participant received guiding instructions is present. But if the guru cannot be present, then another experienced person, or a person the participant trusts, should be available to read this manual without imposing any of his own games. Thereby the participant will be put in mind of what he had previosly heard of the experience.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Liberation is the nervous system devoid of mental-conceptual redundancy. The mind in its conditioned state, limited to words and ego games, is continuously in thought-formation activity. The nervous system in a state of quiescence, alert, awake but not active, is comparable to what Buddhists call the highest state of dhyana (deep meditation). The conscious recognition of the Clear Light induces an ecstatic condition of consciousness such as saints and mystics of the West have called illumination.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The first sign is the glimpsing of the &amp;#034;Clear Light of Reality, the infallible mind of the pure mystic state&amp;#034; - an awareness of energy transformations with no imposition of mental categories.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The duration of this state varies, depending on the individual&amp;#039;s experience, security, trust, preparation, and the surroundings. In those who have a little practical experience of the tranquil state of non-game awareness, this state can last from 30 minutes to several hours. Realization of what mystics call the &amp;#034;Ultimate Truth&amp;#034; is possible, provided that the person has made sufficient preparation beforehand. Otherwise he cannot benefit now, and must wander into lower and lower conditions of hallucinations until he drops back to routine reality.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It is important to remember that the consciousness-expansion is the reverse of the birth process, the ego-loss experiencee being a temporary ending of game life, a passing from one state of consciousness into another. Just as an infant must wake up and learn from experience the nature of this world, so a person must wake up in this new brilliant world of consciousness expansion and become familiar with its own peculiar conditions.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In those heavily dependant on ego games, who dread giving up control, the illuminated state endures only for a split second. In some, it lasts as long as the time taken for eating a meal. If the subject is prepared to diagnose the symptoms of ego-loss, he needs no outside help at this point. The person about to give up his ego should be able to recognize the Clear Light. If the person fails to recognize the onset of ego-loss, he may complain of strange bodily symptoms that show he has not reached a liberated state:&lt;ol style="list-style: decimal outside;"&gt;&lt;li&gt;Bodily pressure&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Clammy coldness followed by feverish heat&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Body disintegrating or blown to atoms&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Pressure on head and ears&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Tingling in extremities&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Feelings of body melting or flowing like wax&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Nausea&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Trembling or shaking, beginning in pelvic region and spreading up torso.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ol&gt;The guide or friend should explain that the symptoms indicate the onset of ego-loss. These physical reactions are signs heralding transcendence: avoid treating them as symptoms of illness. The subject should hail stomach messages as a sign that consciousness is moving around in the body. Experience the sensation fully, and let consciousness flow on to the next phase. It is usually more natural to let the subject&amp;#039;s attention move from the stomach and concentrate on breathing and heartbeat. If this does not free him from nausea, the guide should move the consciousness to external events - music, walking in the garden, etc. As a last resort, heave.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The physical symptoms of ego-loss, recognized and understood, should result in peaceful attainment of illumination. The simile of a needle balanced and set rolling on a thread is used by the lamas to elucidate this condition. So long as the needle retains its balance, it remains on the thread. Eventually, however, the pull of the ego or external stimulation affects it, and it falls. In the realm of the Clear Light, similarly, a person in the ego-transcendent state momentarily enjoys a condition of perfect equilibrium and oneness. Unfamiliar with such an ecstatic non-ego state, the average consciousness lacks the power to function in it. Thoughts of personality, individualized being, dualism, prevent the realization of nirvana (the &amp;#034;blowing out of the flame&amp;#034; of fear or selfishness). When the voyager is clearly in a profound ego-transcendent ecstasy, the wise guide remains silent.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;For more info about tripping safely for purposes of exploration and achieving imprints see &lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;holybooks&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;wp-content&amp;#x2f;uploads&amp;#x2f;Timothy-Leary-The-Psychedelic-Experience-The-Tibetan-Book-Of-The-Dead&amp;#x2e;pdf"&gt;The Psychedelic Experience by Leary&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;More info about Timothy Leary&amp;#039;s LSD research: &lt;br /&gt;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCTWR4kJDa0&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Any impatient, brave souls out there?</description> <pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2014 20:36:22 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5599971</guid> <dc:creator>Droll Dedekind</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-06T20:36:22Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Substance Warnings and Guidelines</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5599952</link> <description>Ah, yes, that&amp;#039;s it: 25i: bad stuff. See how a community brings clarity to these issues? ;)</description> <pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2014 20:25:58 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5599952</guid> <dc:creator>Daniel M. Ingram</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-06T20:25:58Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Substance Warnings and Guidelines</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5599944</link> <description>FWIW I think you&amp;#039;re thinking of 25i-NBOMe. It&amp;#039;s a research chemical that mimics LSD to an extent, and costs a fraction of the price. Most people selling &amp;#039;acid&amp;#039; today are selling 25i or something similar. Definitely avoid and/or get a testing kit</description> <pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2014 20:16:52 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5599944</guid> <dc:creator>Droll Dedekind</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-06T20:16:52Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Substance Warnings and Guidelines</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5599923</link> <description>Well, true in ways and not true in others.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I agree: I know of no wisdom that has come to anyone from opiates beyond those things related to opiates themselves, namely that they control pain, are constipating, sedating and very addictive, can make people vomit, cause rashes, rapidly induce tolerance, may amplify the perception of pain once tolerance has set in, have a nasty withdrawal period, and have other downsides.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As to entheogens, the purist in me would like a world where people simply did clean meditative practices, attained to wisdom and a range of attention-control competencies on thier own power, and that was that. Then we have the real world...&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In the real world, loads of people do entheogens, and some get wisdom from them. Others freak out on them. Some just have strange or interesting experiences. Some have serious side effects. Most don&amp;#039;t. A few end up in jail, psychotic or dead. I know a guy who spent 25 years in prison after he killed his girlfriend while high on acid in the 1970&amp;#039;s when he found her in bed with his best friend. I had a friend in junior high school who dropped his first hit of acid and came down 3 months later and was never really the same after that. I see patients who are violently psychotic in the ED from various drugs, most recently something called &amp;#034;i25&amp;#034;. He required about 10 police and security people to hold him down: so don&amp;#039;t do i25, that is my best advice.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;That said, in my own life, it is entirely possible and actually very likely that, had a good friend not dropped 4 hits of acid one day and crossed the A&amp;amp;P, which later lead to all sorts of other relatively beneficial effects, I would have never found the meditative things that I found.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As many have noted here, there are insights that come from them, and plenty of people get into meditative territory on them that they couldn&amp;#039;t have dreamed of until that point. Unfortunately, it is a total crap-shoot, and there is no telling if someone will get insights or have something bad happen. The risks, in my view, are definitely higher with entheogens. That said, intensive meditation practice is not necessarily safe either, as plenty here will attest. Were there not the legal stigma around these things, perhaps real science could be done to help sort this out. Until then, we have case reports of variable quality and communities to help make sense of what happens in the real world.</description> <pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2014 19:40:50 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5599923</guid> <dc:creator>Daniel M. Ingram</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-06T19:40:50Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Substance Warnings and Guidelines</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5599906</link> <description>I think it&amp;#039;s important to point out that entheogens, though they are used in certain spiritual traditions, are unnecessary for progress along the path of insight (and all other axes of development that I know of). Most Westerners have easy access to a wide variety of teachings and techniques from a wide variety of wisdom traditions where entheogens play no roles.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The progress of insight, the concentration states, and experiences of the powers are crazy enough without entheogens. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Disclaimer: my only experiences involve opiates. Not recommended</description> <pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2014 19:03:41 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5599906</guid> <dc:creator>Eric M W</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-06T19:03:41Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Substance Warnings and Guidelines</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5599887</link> <description>There are actually three sub-categories on the category, and one of them is Pharmaceuticals, another Supplements, another is the one that has that stickied on it: Other.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I totally agree that prescribed pharmaceuticals can cause all sorts of complex side effects, but the legal issues are different.</description> <pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2014 18:30:34 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5599887</guid> <dc:creator>Daniel M. Ingram</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-06T18:30:34Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Substance Warnings and Guidelines</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5599804</link> <description>Howdy Daniel,&lt;br /&gt;I like the idea of this sticky.  I also think that the attitude of Erowid is adult and similar to the flavour here.  ie:Be fully informed before you make decisions that affect only yourself and accept the consequences.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;One point I would like to make is that Pharmaceuticals are far more dangerous than non-pharmaceutical abuse substances.  I know that&amp;#039;s a big statement and will imediately raise hackles.  Note that I&amp;#039;m not implying that there are no benefits from some pharmaceuticals. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt; I am assuming that they are being left our of this discussion because they are not generally though of as &amp;#034;mind expanding&amp;#034; in the sense of enthogens or that the discussion would be less focused were they to be included?  Is that correct?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Cheers&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;tom</description> <pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2014 15:38:06 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5599804</guid> <dc:creator>tom moylan</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-06T15:38:06Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>Substance Warnings and Guidelines</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5599686</link> <description>Dear DhO Posters,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This is the stickied thread that sits at the top of a new category. It is a place to discuss the effects of substances on your practice that are not supplements and not prescribed pharmaceuticals, such as things like enthogens. It is offered in the spirit of sites like Erowid, which believe that rational discussion and a supportive community of wise practitioners helping those who choose to explore those territories will have better outcomes.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;That said: be warned that this is not any advocacy for the use of any substances, and individual posters and readers take responsibility for their own choices and their legal consequences.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Further, unlicensed and ilicit substances are well known to cause dangerous consequences, including severe mental illness, dangerous behaviour and death. Any use of any substance actually entails risks, as does meditation and spiritual training.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As people are going to use substances anyway, and as some members have had experiences both good and bad that were of significant consequence to their practice, it is worth having a place to include wise and thoughtful discussion of these things. Further, as this site benefits from map and meditative theory that is generally far beyond that found elsewhere, the application of that to experiences that may have occurred while using substances has been found to have been pragmatically helpful to many posters here, as noted in those threads. Thus, despite the risks, the benefits of these discussions hopefully will help people stay sane, healthy, functional and alive.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Threads on these topics will be moderated heavily owing to the nature of this topic. Be wise, caring, and thoughtful when posting here.</description> <pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2014 11:22:47 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5599686</guid> <dc:creator>Daniel M. Ingram</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-06T11:22:47Z</dc:date> </item> </channel> </rss> 