<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?> <rss xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" version="2.0"> <channel> <title>Did I "get" Stream Entry via Crazy Wisdom?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_thread?p_l_id=&amp;threadId=5601603</link> <description>Did I "get" Stream Entry via Crazy Wisdom?</description> <pubDate>Sun, 19 Oct 2014 01:45:50 GMT</pubDate> <dc:date>2014-10-19T01:45:50Z</dc:date> <item> <title>RE: Did I "get" Stream Entry via Crazy Wisdom?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5602794</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Morgan Kauppi:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Confusing in what sense? &lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In the sense that you&amp;#039;re using &amp;#039;kensho&amp;#039; and &amp;#039;satori&amp;#039; in ways that don&amp;#039;t quite hew to the original meaning (as I understand it) in the Zen context. Then you &amp;#039;mic check&amp;#039; the Theravadan idea of &amp;#039;stream entry&amp;#039; and Chogyam Trungpa&amp;#039;s brand of &amp;#039;crazy wisdom.&amp;#039; I wonder if I&amp;#039;m even thinking of these things in the way you&amp;#039;re trying to convey.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The rest sounds like you&amp;#039;re searching for a lot of things and these retreats seem to fulfill that for you. If that&amp;#039;s the case, more power to you.</description> <pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2014 06:24:48 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5602794</guid> <dc:creator>Small Steps</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-11T06:24:48Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Did I "get" Stream Entry via Crazy Wisdom?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5602490</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Morgan Kauppi:&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I think it&amp;#039;s important to work with the mundane aspects of being human. To face your fear and get new experiences. That will probably make it easier to let go during formal meditation. And what kind of life do you want to wake up to? Your &amp;#034;mundane problems&amp;#034; won&amp;#039;t solve themselves just because you get enlightened...&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;You&amp;#039;ve hit the nail on the head in many regards. Just been chatting with a friend about how difficult it is (for us at any rate) to practice mindfully when not on retreat... in the hub bub of the real world. But that&amp;#039;s very important to try and do too. We&amp;#039;re both familiar with the monastics of the Thai Forest Tradition over here (UK) who are often pointing out the value of living in community and how that can be just as great a teacher as going off into the hills. To quote her: &amp;#034;&lt;span style="font-family: verdana&amp;#x2c;&amp;#x20;helvetica&amp;#x2c;&amp;#x20;sans-serif"&gt;....and also don&amp;#039;t feel that sitting alone does it - things come up in community living that would take longer to come up in sitting&amp;#034;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Ajahn Chah said something along the lines that if sitting was all you had to do then there would be a lot of enlightend chickens around!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 12px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description> <pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2014 19:21:55 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5602490</guid> <dc:creator>Piers M</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-10T19:21:55Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Did I "get" Stream Entry via Crazy Wisdom?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5602474</link> <description>Yes, for sure the state gives insight. Lots of not-self insights and non-agency insights --- nothing is in charge and everything seems just fine as it is. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It&amp;#039;s probably best to think of the benefits as one of purification. There is no way you are going to be as greedy or aggressive or needy after you&amp;#039;ve felt that things are fine and simple. Sometimes people get a blissful experience of non-agency, sometimes people get depersonalization, which can be the evil twin of non-agency.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The sneaky thing is in most flavors of that experience (I don&amp;#039;t want to speak definitively, because ultimately I really can&amp;#039;t know exactly what you&amp;#039;ve experienced) there is still a very subtle sense of &amp;#034;I&amp;#034;-ness. I am in satori, I am equanimous with how things are, everything seems rich and full and juicy and ultimate to &amp;#034;me&amp;#034;. That&amp;#039;s what makes EQ tricky. It too is a conditioned experience. But it&amp;#039;s a damn clean conditioned experience!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;By the way, congratulations. Having that experience is a rare and difficult thing. Obviously you didn&amp;#039;t &amp;#034;make&amp;#034; it happen, but still it&amp;#039;s a credit to your practice. Hope you keep exploring!</description> <pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2014 18:34:23 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5602474</guid> <dc:creator>x x</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-10T18:34:23Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Did I "get" Stream Entry via Crazy Wisdom?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5602219</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;x x:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;So.... I would say no, you did not get classical stream entry. If you want to apply one model to the other, probably the closest coorelation of presence/trantric satori is the &amp;#034;Equanimity&amp;#034; nana. Here&amp;#039;s the important thing: you were aware of your satori, right? Then it was a state of awareness, not the stream entry insight. Equanimity/presence is VERY tricky, because it seems like nothing could be higher than it. But you have to ask yourself, can I tell that this is something different?, something unique, something recognizable, something that I can see as existing in someone else&amp;#039;s experience like the girl you locked eyes with?  If so, then it is a state, not an insight.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thanks, that made things clearer. Yes, probably a state, but it gave insight also. It&amp;#039;s just weird that Theravada says nothing about the state I found myself in. It was a kind of equanimity you couldn&amp;#039;t will yourself out of, because the will was temorarily unavailable. One guy told me that it has happened that people must be led through the airport by other retreatants after the retreat, because they can&amp;#039;t take care of themselves. They were still in satori, and stayed there for days(!). Why haven&amp;#039;t I heard of this state before? Chances are that it is documented in other spiritual traditions, but which and what is it called? What properties does it have? What benefits does it bring? Etc, etc...</description> <pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2014 10:18:53 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5602219</guid> <dc:creator>Morgan Kauppi</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-10T10:18:53Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Did I "get" Stream Entry via Crazy Wisdom?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5602211</link> <description>&lt;div class="quote-title"&gt;Small Steps:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;Your post sounds confusing. I looked at that link you provided re newtantra and read as far as, &amp;#034;Learn how to give and receive 20 minute full body orgasms,&amp;#034; before I closed the tab (may be nsfw, so I&amp;#039;d rather not find out).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Sounds fishy, but you obviously thought it was useful enough to go through two retreats.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As far as your experiences go, what sort of insights came out of it? Did you experience any lasting, permanent shifts in your experiential reality? Sitting around spaced out for a few hours at a time doesn&amp;#039;t even sound all that appealing to me, even at the risk of never catching the eye of my soul mate...&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Confusing in what sense? Sounds fishy, yes, and very &amp;#034;unspiritual&amp;#034;. I have led a few meditation circles, and I&amp;#039;m fed up of people nodding politely to each other, not saying what they really mean, and not really meaning what they are saying, &amp;#034;trying&amp;#034; to be &amp;#034;spiritual&amp;#034;. The retreat was so refreshing! Couples discussing their relationships in front of everyone (about 40 retreatants), asking for feedback, etc. People freaking out. People getting completely new sexual experiences. And when someone said something profound, people&amp;#039;s kundalini was triggered and their bodies were shaking &lt;img alt="emoticon" src="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dho-theme/images/emoticons/happy.gif" &gt;. If someone told me I wouldn&amp;#039;t believe it. I have found a new range of human experience that until now has been completely unknown to me. Very valuable.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It&amp;#039;s too early to say anything about the permanent changes. I feel very open to other people, but that might be because I haven&amp;#039;t really landed yet. The satori experience was not about &amp;#034;catching the eye of my soul mate&amp;#034;, but more about the realization that you are (seemingly) trapped inside yourself, and that a &lt;strong&gt;very&lt;/strong&gt; deep connection with other people is possible. That inspires me to continue on the path!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I think it&amp;#039;s important to work with the mundane aspects of being human. To face your fear and get new experiences. That will probably make it easier to let go during formal meditation. And what kind of life do you want to wake up to? Your &amp;#034;mundane problems&amp;#034; won&amp;#039;t solve themselves just because you get enlightened...</description> <pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2014 09:56:22 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5602211</guid> <dc:creator>Morgan Kauppi</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-10T09:56:22Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Did I "get" Stream Entry via Crazy Wisdom?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5602061</link> <description>Your &amp;#034;tantric satori&amp;#034; probably lines up best with the more general spiritual term &amp;#034;presence&amp;#034;. Presence is both the goal of practice but also the foundation for practice --- it&amp;#039;s a wierd paradox, but you basically start with presence and then increase your ability to maintain it. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Presence based practices are actually quite different from noting or concentration based practices, and frankly it&amp;#039;s a big disaster when proponents of both sides get in a room and argue what is best. No one wins and everyone loses.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Eyes open meditation seems to lead to a different &amp;#034;display&amp;#034; of spiritual experiences. They don&amp;#039;t tend to get jhanas or cessations in the same way. Some people argue that this means that open eyed meditators don&amp;#039;t get enlightened, but it could also mean that they just don&amp;#039;t have the same symptoms... even if they wind up waking up just the same. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So.... I would say no, you did not get classical stream entry. If you want to apply one model to the other, probably the closest coorelation of presence/trantric satori is the &amp;#034;Equanimity&amp;#034; nana. Here&amp;#039;s the important thing: you were aware of your satori, right? Then it was a state of awareness, not the stream entry insight. Equanimity/presence is VERY tricky, because it seems like nothing could be higher than it. But you have to ask yourself, can I tell that this is something different?, something unique, something recognizable, something that I can see as existing in someone else&amp;#039;s experience like the girl you locked eyes with?  If so, then it is a state, not an insight.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Very trick stuff! Hope this helps at least a little. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Now that seems to diminish presence to just a theravadian nana... but actually cultivating presence is a very fast way to cut through a lot of limitations, to really purify experience... which is as much the heart of spirituality as anything else.</description> <pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2014 23:26:10 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5602061</guid> <dc:creator>x x</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-09T23:26:10Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Did I "get" Stream Entry via Crazy Wisdom?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601987</link> <description>Your post sounds confusing. I looked at that link you provided re newtantra and read as far as, &amp;#034;Learn how to give and receive 20 minute full body orgasms,&amp;#034; before I closed the tab (may be nsfw, so I&amp;#039;d rather not find out).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Sounds fishy, but you obviously thought it was useful enough to go through two retreats.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As far as your experiences go, what sort of insights came out of it? Did you experience any lasting, permanent shifts in your experiential reality? Sitting around spaced out for a few hours at a time doesn&amp;#039;t even sound all that appealing to me, even at the risk of never catching the eye of my soul mate...</description> <pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2014 20:53:34 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601987</guid> <dc:creator>Small Steps</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-09T20:53:34Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>RE: Did I "get" Stream Entry via Crazy Wisdom?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601647</link> <description>Interesting post. I will try to address your questions...&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;1. Is tantra satori the same as zen kensho?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Alright, first of all, zen also uses the term &amp;#034;satori.&amp;#034; At least, Rinzai does, Soto is more of a &amp;#034;you are already enlightened&amp;#034; school. My admittedly limited understanding of satori and kensho is that kensho is a temporary experience of enlightenment, while satori is permanent. I don&amp;#039;t know how tantra&amp;#039;s satori and zen&amp;#039;s satori line up.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In brief: kensho is a peak experience, satori is a permanent increase in enlightenment, probably similar to the Theravada path moment. Since your experiences of satori did not last, I&amp;#039;d say that they are more appropriately called &amp;#034;kensho&amp;#034;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;2. Is tantra satori the same as Theravada stream entry?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;I think that Zen satori is the same as Theravada path moments, because they are ever-deepening experiences of enlightenment that are permanent. As for tantra satori, I have no idea how they line up. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;3. Did I &amp;#034;get&amp;#034; stream entry, or do I have to delete my post and hide forever? &lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;span style="color: #111111"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 16px"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;Well, in Theravada stream entry is marked by a cessation and a permanently reduced sense of self, as well as things like cycling and jhana access. Can you call up a fruition? Do you cycle? Has your sense of self been reduced and stayed that way?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It&amp;#039;s hard to really diagnose you, because trying to line up wisdom traditions can be difficult, especially western and eastern ones. Furthermore, it seems that this school of tantra is borrowing the zen term &amp;#034;satori,&amp;#034; and zen tries to be purposefully mysterious and vague. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;However, the temporary nature of your satori&amp;#039;s leads me to hesitantly say no, I don&amp;#039;t think you got stream entry. Then again, maybe there is more to the story than what you posted.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;No need to delete your post, it&amp;#039;s always fun an interesting to read about experiences in other traditions! </description> <pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2014 14:24:08 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601647</guid> <dc:creator>Eric M W</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-09T14:24:08Z</dc:date> </item> <item> <title>Did I "get" Stream Entry via Crazy Wisdom?</title> <link>http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601602</link> <description>I believe I was close to stream entry &lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;www&amp;#x2e;dharmaoverground&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;web&amp;#x2f;guest&amp;#x2f;discussion&amp;#x2f;-&amp;#x2f;message_boards&amp;#x2f;message&amp;#x2f;3769601"&gt;a couple of years ago&lt;/a&gt;, but lost momentum due to all responsibilities connected to family life. I decided to use parenthood as a vehicle to decrease my ego, and wait for a more suitable time in life to do serious meditation.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I found a western tantra school called &lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;thenewtantra&amp;#x2e;com&amp;#x2f;"&gt;The New Tantra&lt;/a&gt; that is using the methods of &lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;en&amp;#x2e;wikipedia&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;wiki&amp;#x2f;Crazy_wisdom"&gt;Crazy Wisdom&lt;/a&gt;. I attended a level 1 retreat in May this year and came home from a level 2 retreat six days ago. The idea is that instead of “life denial” use the sexuality as a springboard to the spiritual. In an intimate situation you are vulnerable and more easily open up. Issues like shame, guilt, romantic dreaming, codependency, fear of rejection, emotional or intimate neediness, need for outer approval, etc, are addressed at the retreats.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The second night of the four day retreat begins with an exercise called “non-interference”. Everyone are using outer attributes (I don&amp;#039;t dare to tell you the details &lt;img alt="emoticon" src="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dho-theme/images/emoticons/happy.gif" &gt;) to put yourself in such an odd situation that you don’t take yourself so seriously. You open up. You don’t really know who you are any longer. The ego is confused. Then you get approximately the following instructions:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Close your eyes and listen to the teachers’ voice. Focus in into your head, and then down your throat, and down through the whole body down to the feet. Then focus out to outer sounds. Open your eyes and stay focused on outer stimuli during the whole exercise. Forget yourself. When you feel ready, go to the middle of the room (the floor is covered with mattresses). Lie down and let the body do whatever it wants, without interference from thoughts or emotions - &amp;#034;be&amp;#034; spontaneous, but don&amp;#039;t really do anything actively, follow the least resistance. Almost like Shikantaza. Roll around, crawl, interact with someone, space out, etc. No rules.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;During the exercise I gradually found myself in a very deep state (called &amp;#034;satori&amp;#034; in tantra, and this was confirmed by the teacher the day after; &amp;#034;multiple satoris&amp;#034; he said). I could not speak. I had almost no thoughts. It was hard to keep track of time. I didn&amp;#039;t move much. Sometimes a limb moved, and then suddenly the whole body &amp;#034;froze&amp;#034; in the current position for several minutes, and then moved again, etc. At one point I was lying down on the floor and closed my eyes. I don&amp;#039;t know for how long. When I opened my eyes I was looking straight into the eyes of this beautiful soul. She was in the same state and we looked into each others left eye (another exercise in this tantra school). It was the deepest connection I have ever made with anyone in my life! I saw myself in her. She reflected my ego. I saw my attachment and my aversion. Truly amazing. Weird. We did that for an hour maybe, and then started to interact with other people again.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I felt I had been given a gift, and wanted to pass it on. I &amp;#034;tried&amp;#034; to connect with other retreatants via eyecontact and body language (I could still not speak). Only one got the message, and couldn&amp;#039;t resist my gaze. It lasted for a few minutes maybe. The day after he appoached me and told me essentially what I had experienced myself with that girl - it was the deepest connection he had ever made with anyone in his life!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;At a later point during the exercise I was sitting on a bench and was really spaced out. Another retreatant approached me and asked if I was on drugs. I half-way broke the state and explained that I had not taken any drugs, not even alcohol. She was not convinced &lt;img alt="emoticon" src="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dho-theme/images/emoticons/happy.gif" &gt;. She left and I went deeper again. Suddenly my head moved 90 degrees to the right and I again looked straight into the left eye of that beautiful soul who I interacted with earlier. She was standing at a distance from me. After a few minutes she approached me, and we gazed at each other for I don&amp;#039;t know how long. Tiredness made us finally pop out of satori.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It seems like satori only can be communicated if both are in satori, and it will be a wordless communication. It cannot even be communicated between these two minds when they have popped out of it. I was so deeply disappointed when I realized that, and was too baffled to be able to speak about that insight. I realized that when you pop out of satori you are thrown back into fundamental loneliness again, where any communication with another mind will be tainted in some sense.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;That realization made me very sad, and I was holding back during the sharings. I felt like a bottle with tears that tried to empty itself through a too small opening. I feel very grateful for the experience of being so deeply connected to someone.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;On the level 1 retreat the teacher said that the tantra “satori” is equivalent to the zen “kensho”. In the kensho Wikipedia article there are &lt;a href="http&amp;#x3a;&amp;#x2f;&amp;#x2f;en&amp;#x2e;wikipedia&amp;#x2e;org&amp;#x2f;wiki&amp;#x2f;Kensh&amp;#x25;C5&amp;#x25;8D&amp;#x23;Contemporary_accounts"&gt;a couple of contemporary accounts&lt;/a&gt; that are very different from each other, which confuses me. They are quoted below.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This account of kensho sounds like what I experienced at the level 2 retreat. My experience lasted for hours and I was very spaced out:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&amp;#034;[...] One day as I walked by, I looked at the hill and it was truly amazing. I was totally lost as if there was no &amp;#039;me&amp;#039;. I stood gazing at the hill. Some students walked by and one of them said something like &amp;#039;look at that crazy monk&amp;#039;. Finally I came out of it. [...]&amp;#034;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This account sounds more like stream entry as described in MCTB:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-content"&gt;&amp;#034;At around midnight on the seventh and final night of my practice, the boom of a bell from a distant temple reached my ears: suddenly, my body and mind dropped completely away. [...]&amp;#034;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;1. Is tantra satori the same as zen kensho?&lt;br /&gt;2. Is tantra satori the same as Theravada stream entry?&lt;br /&gt;3. Did I &amp;#034;get&amp;#034; stream entry, or do I have to delete my post and hide forever? &lt;img alt="emoticon" src="http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dho-theme/images/emoticons/happy.gif" &gt;</description> <pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2014 13:10:43 GMT</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&amp;messageId=5601602</guid> <dc:creator>Morgan Kauppi</dc:creator> <dc:date>2014-10-09T13:10:43Z</dc:date> </item> </channel> </rss> 