Discussion Forum Discussion Forum

Direct Pointing

40 years of Vipassana. 3 days of direct looking. Breaking Free.

40 years of Vipassana. 3 days of direct looking. Breaking Free.
stream entry vipassana no self
Answer
9/3/11 12:11 AM
Hi, guys

Over the past week I worked one-on-one with 4 people with hard-core Vipassana background. 3 from this forum and 1 is my friend, long course vipassana practitioner. I also will add if anybody will come across with dharma background, not necessarily from this forum.

I will post out work here for you to look at.


40 years of Spiritual Search. Breaking Free.

Deep Honesty breaks the Illusion

Stream Entry

Burning Imaginary "I"

Let's Take the Root Out!

Liberation 101: Chop wood, do laundry!

This is the work on this forum in Direct Pointing section: Work on this forum in Direct Pointing section


I really encourage you to read, if you can, and it may help clear some doubt about effectiveness of direct looking.

As always, please feel free to contact me (send me message here on this forum), or any of my friends either on ruthlesstruth.com or facebook.

I have to tell, guys from this forum are really hurd nuts to break, so to speak, I am telling this with much love.
But the relief is tremendous.

The most emotional recent work: Professor, 72 y.o 46 years of Soto Zen - liberation

I keep adding here every week,

I have this recent one with Theravada meditation teacher:

Theravada meditation teacher steps through the Gate



Hugs to all. Elena

RE: 40 years of Vipassana. 3 days of direct looking. Done.
Answer
7/12/11 7:43 AM as a reply to Elena Joy.
You're using tricky word-plays to confuse the seeker into a mild trance state, then mistaking that for awakening. Milton Erickson and the NLP wide boys use confusion as a tactic to quieten the conscious mind and introduce suggestion this way.

You're no more enlightened than me. Stop leading people up the garden path!

RE: 40 years of Vipassana. 3 days of direct looking. Done.
Answer
7/12/11 1:16 PM as a reply to C C C.
I've been trying to make some sense of all these recent posts. They smell all wrong. After reading your comment CCC, I went and found this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_H._Erickson#Confusion_technique

Makes for interesting reading in this context. Thanks.

RE: 40 years of Vipassana. 3 days of direct looking. Done.
Answer
7/12/11 1:38 PM as a reply to Nick W.
Nick Wilson:
I've been trying to make some sense of all these recent posts. They smell all wrong. After reading your comment CCC, I went and found this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_H._Erickson#Confusion_technique

Makes for interesting reading in this context. Thanks.


hmm well the technique essentially seems to be - disarm all of the person's beliefs. cause them to be dropped. this does lead to a confused state since the mind is unable to fall back on anything it believes it knows. from that state the person has to look.

the question is: does it lead to genuine insight, leading to a shift in understanding, from which, yes, new (and incorrect) beliefs may be formed, or does it just layer a new belief on top of old stuff (taking advantage of a naive mind) with no genuine insight behind it?

RE: 40 years of Vipassana. 3 days of direct looking. Done.
Answer
7/12/11 11:10 PM as a reply to Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem.
To all who are sceptical:

You can confuse somebody on the street. You can't confuse the mind that was focusing in Vipassana for 40 years. And that honesty that came out from S. in the second thread, that honesty is not a mind trick. This can't be understood with reading the text. This is only for those who see the truth in this. If you don't, do whatever you inspired to do, it's just fine.

RE: 40 years of Vipassana. 3 days of direct looking. Done.
Answer
7/18/11 12:24 AM as a reply to Elena Joy.
I posted Stream Entry thread today: Stream Entry

This was interesting since this man was told by his teacher that he had stream entry last year. I asked him to explain the experience, and then we went ahead with looking into the nature of reality. At the end he agreed that actually this was Stream Entry for him, when the illusion of "I" was actually seeing through.

RE: 40 years of Vipassana. 3 days of direct looking. Done.
Answer
7/18/11 12:31 AM as a reply to Elena Joy.
I posted Burning imaginary "I" - my friend, long courses Vipassana student.

With him I started 6 months ago just by telling him that I had somebody guided me to realize anatta. Then I suggested him to read Jed McKenna "Spiritually Incorrect Enlightenment", just to prepare his mind to see that meditation is not necessary to penetrate the illusion. It's difficult for people with Vipassana background to accept anything else, except this practice. Since it was my friend and fellow meditator, I just used my example and Jed's first book. After reading Jed he asked me what's next, and I offered him to try direct pointing. This was the most difficult work for me, since I was emotionally invested, somehow it was just very hard. Then I dropped the expectation, and things started to move. I have only a portion of this on the blog, otherwise it would be too long, and besides, I lost part of the chat.

RE: 40 years of Vipassana. 3 days of direct looking. Done.
Answer
7/18/11 12:21 AM as a reply to Elena Joy.
I added Let's Take the Root Out!

This was relatively easy and quick. This man did not have much concepts, was open and ready to look immediately.

RE: 40 years of Vipassana. 3 days of direct looking. Done.
Answer
7/18/11 12:34 AM as a reply to Elena Joy.
Deep Honesty Breaks The Illusion

This man I will remember to the rest of my life. At the middle of our work together he came up with such profound honesty that I never forget. Read his list. I bet many of us could sign under it.

RE: 40 years of Vipassana. 3 days of direct looking. Done.
Answer
7/18/11 12:37 AM as a reply to Elena Joy.
40 Years of Vipassana, 3 Days of Direct Looking.


This was my first man from this board. Great guy. Thanks, J! With profound 40 years of practice. We found a lot in common later when we talked.

RE: 40 years of Vipassana. 3 days of direct looking. Done.
Answer
7/21/11 2:39 AM as a reply to Elena Joy.
New: Liberation 101: Chop wood, do laundry!emoticon

This was very spontaneous team work yesterday. Man was doing his laundry, and was talking to us, using his mobile phoneemoticon It was absolutely awesome. The guy also Vipassana practitioner. This was awesomely quick!

RE: 40 years of Vipassana. 3 days of direct looking. Done.
Answer
7/21/11 2:55 PM as a reply to Elena Joy.
Very very few people will reach liberation by this method. this is like the story of bahiya. you know theres only the seen no see-er. another thing that people dont take into consideration is that bahiya had been practicing something for a long time. and his mind was ripe for the Buddha's instruction. if only he hadnt been killed by a mad cow moments later.

You cant think your way to enlightenment. well maybe "you" can. maybe your another bahiya. 99% are not. and just talking about no self isnt enough. Here's one to ponder, "the buddha talked of anatta but he also said make yourself an island". to be, not to be, both, or neither do not apply to those that have reached the unconditioned.

Direct looking is the definition of vipassana by the way.

RE: 40 years of Vipassana. 3 days of direct looking. Done.
Answer
7/23/11 1:36 AM as a reply to Ross A. K..
This is not intellectual, and not talking. Seems like, maybe, for you when you read casually. These people really looked into reality as it is. Try for yourself, then comment. You can't comment on how tasty or not is Raw Food Cheesecake if you never tried one. You see the description and say: raw cheesecake? Either not possible or tastes awful. Same here.

RE: 40 years of Vipassana. 3 days of direct looking. Done.
Answer
7/23/11 8:29 AM as a reply to Elena Joy.
I have had raw food cheese cake and it is good! and, yes, your right I dont know about this particular method. I really think its same old seeing reality as it is, just has a different name. so call it what you want. I hope it does work for those that believe it does and some that don't. believing in what one is doing, in regards to practice, is indispensable, as, I'm sure you already know. with metta - Ross

RE: 40 years of Vipassana. 3 days of direct looking. Done.
Answer
7/28/11 6:20 PM as a reply to Ross A. K..
Yes, Ross, Raw cheesecake is great!emoticon And you right, it's a new fancy name for what zen masters do, but in their elaborate ways, mixed with a lot of rituals to confuse and disorient the mindemoticon Look here, if no time - read at the end what the guy wrote:

And I was meditating my ass off for 25 years for THIS??!!

RE: 40 years of Vipassana. 3 days of direct looking. Done.
Answer
7/29/11 9:47 AM as a reply to Elena Joy.
Becoming enlightened is like back in the days when I used to smoke a lot of pot and I taught I lost my lighter. After looking around frantically for my lighter I realized to my amazement it was in my hand the whole time emoticon! realizing (on July 13th, 2011) that there is nothing, no-self, void-ness, and vastness with astounding clarity, I burst out in amazement of this Dharma and bliss joy equanimity shot through my being with resonating laughter. Then a feeling/thaught of, Really! that's it!? yes, that's it, sunk in!
I dont want to officially make a claim yet. I need to be sure. And, I'm gonna give this a lot of time. I'm intentionally leaving out quite a bit because I feel uncomfortable discussing this. Most likely due to my fundamentalist Theravada mindset. that's changed too. I could very well be way overestimating this. Im looking for a practical approach to this issue. and where to go from here. How not to get so cocky that I get lost in my own righteousness......................
What do you think about that?

RE: 40 years of Vipassana. 3 days of direct looking. Done.
Answer
7/30/11 1:34 AM as a reply to Ross A. K..
Ahahahaha! That is great! You know, we, hard-core "serious" seekers are so serious of everything, so we can't even celebrate what is!emoticon)) We keep it low and check it out for yearsemoticon Because we have this image of how it should be, and it should be quite, bliss and nirvana. Or whatever. Anyways, I am so happy for you. There is nothing you will loose, there is no point to worry. Just go ahead and celebrate with living your life to the fullest! Without fear - any fear, even fear of loosing this. Haha. What a freedom and end of search! Awesome. Of cause body/mind will keep unfolding - all these years of folding and folding the self, protecting - tensions and old beliefs and other stuff remains. But now, it will all start to fall off like leaves from the tree in a fall - no need for all this to remain in the system. Much Love, Nipuna!

Look up Part 2 of the same guy:

i've-been-meditating-my-ass-off-for-25 years. Part 2

RE: 40 years of Vipassana. 3 days of direct looking. Done.
Answer
8/6/11 3:28 AM as a reply to Elena Joy.
Introducing Paul - somebody who stepped to work with me in the Direct Pointing Section of this forum:

Working with Paul from this forumhttp://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/2063058

RE: 40 years of Vipassana. 3 days of direct looking. Done.
Answer
8/7/11 1:40 AM as a reply to Ross A. K..
In response to the notion that this is anti-traditional or that this is not fundamentalist Theravadan stuff in some way: if you look at the old texts, the practice instructions for insight again and again are: "That is not self, that is not me, that is not mine, that is impermanent, that is causal, that is empty. This is not self, this is not me, this is not mine, this is impermanent, this is causal, this is empty." Again and again, they were asked to observe this, contemplate this, experience this, know this directly for everything, exactly as these Direct Pointers are onto, and more power to them.

I don't know what people are doing in vipassana, but if it is something other than seeing the Three Characteristics, of which two are strongly emphasized by the Direct Pointers, then I would say that isn't vipassana, and is something else being sold as vipassana but isn't.

I like this very immediate, very hardcore, very straightforward approach. I have this feeling that there are levels to it beyond the obvious, but this is a discussion for another time. Regardless, good stuff.

RE: 40 years of Vipassana. 3 days of direct looking. Done.
Answer
8/22/11 1:50 AM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
Daniel, I appreciate your input on this thread. I heard you help people with insight pointing. I have to tell you that you are first "established teacher of spirituality" that opened his forum, accepted this way, and publicly said that. I really respect you for this, and definitely want to know more about you. I see pure mind, open heart, amazing. Much gratitude and appreciation!

I would like to offer you and others on this forum this work I just finished with somebody. This somebody was not just somebody - it was really hard nut. Man is 72 years old. Professor of psychiatry. 46 years in Soto Zen. He worked with Thassa, then I took him over. His name, of cause, changed.

I am sorry if it's sometimes difficult to read - I am trying to compile these threads as closer as possible. It's difficult. Takes me about 3 hours to do the post from my countless emails. It's almost 5am, I finished it, but I couldn't resist to go and post it here for you, my friends! Appreciate openness of this forum. Love you all.
Elena

Read here: Professor Breaking Free