quote=Thomas A V]
When you see a attractive male/female walking down the street and form hits the eye door, what is the experience that follows this
Hi Thomas,
I ask this question in all seriousness: Is the reaction equal to seeing that of a woman of the age of 90?
If you are asking me for my take on what I currently think anagami of the fetter model looks like then first I will have to make the disclaimer that I still have a residual shadow occurrence of passion in the form of just sensations in the chest. A slight pressure where a 'twang' would have been. There will be a slight pressure arising in chest which is automatically recognized as what would have triggered an affective passion before the last two shifts. (I have had two distinct path-like moments in the past 5 months). Now there is just sensations which arise and pass within a second or so to remind me that that would have been passion.
Being as strict and literal as possible I do not consider ill will (which also occurs in the same attenuated way) and sensual desire to have been completely and totally cut. Once even those particular sensations don't arise in the same situations, only then would I consider it anagami of the fetter model. And as I am pretty sure that is where it is headed, I stand by this opinion (until some other expericne changes my mind again).
To answer your question above, I would say the anagami reaction would be 'nothing', no sensations, no residual shadow, nothing. And if nothing is the normal reaction towards seeing a 90 year old woman, then yes to your question as well. No sensations, no residual shadow, no nothing for an anagami in my current opinion. That is my current take. I'm currently walking in this direction (not sure there is a choice).
In that it is entirely neutral of any attraction factor whatsoever?
Neutral meaning no reaction physical or mental at all? Then my take would be yes.
Or is there the noticing of "she's hot" or "she's attractive" without any bodily sensations whatsoever (or even actual grosser mental "thought", or could the grosser thought be there but not lead to the bodily reactions or mental reaction, just a simple verbal thought..).
In my current experience, there is recognition of a slight pressure in the chest in this situation which informs me that I would have mentally reacted with passion before the shift in July. It lasts a second or two and that is it. It is like it never happened. The recent shift a week or so ago, left the 'twangs' in the chest cut in half so to speak. They are not 'twangy' nor 'burny' anymore but just pressure. They cause very little 'mental wrestling' that was present after the july shift.
However, you also say all mental sensations (meaning there is no unpleasant left over mental "imprint") or that there is the exact reaction you would have of seeing a woman of the age of 90? [Edit: And/Or perhaps clearer, someone of the same sex as yourself]
Where do i say something about 'mental sensations'? There is currently no 'unpleasant mental imprint' in such situations. Just a recognition that the pressure in the chest would have set off affective passion. It still is unsatisfactory in a much subtler way and so I don't consider it a fetter completely cut. If by exact reaction you mean 'no reaction whatsoever physical or mental' then that is what I see as the anagami fetter model stage currently (this opinion is subject to change at the drop of a hat)
I've noticed this sort of "shadow" of sensual desire in the sexual attraction. The chest still sort of tenses, there is some sensation in the throat, but it is not compounded because it is noticed as it is. However, previously, it was noticed as it was, but there was also a grosser overall very unpleasant raw lust that was noticed as it was.
How long does this 'shadow experience' last and is there even the slightest 'mental overlay' of a felt sense of existing/being/me-ness/presence along with it? Thoughts accompanying it? What if you watched porn on the internet? What would happen? (serious question)
I don't recognize these things in my current experience. They stopped arising in July. But a weird hard to describe subtle 'mental shadowy movement' was arising till recently. Now it is hard to pinpoint if it is there or not as most of the time it's a continuum of distinctions, sense impressions left right and centre, apperceptive awareness, even of the pressure felt in the chest in such situations.
Nick