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Vipassana: Noting/Mahasi Style

Difference between relaxation and letting-go

Lately, I've found that there's a difference between relaxation and letting-go. In the first case, there's a (conscious or unconscious) intention to relax a tension, triggered by a gross or subtle aversion to physical, mental or emotional phenomena. That is, it's not a "good" (ultimate) relaxation, as there's in the shadows some kind of explicit or implicit ideal of how things should be. Because of my Taijiquan background, I have deeply ingrained the process of spotting tensions and releasing them. This practice may be good as a start but later a hindrance, regarding meditation.

Instead, I've found that letting-go is rather the opposite, being aware when tensions start to rise, note the aversion and the clinging towards releasing it, and just watch/notice patiently how the tension slowly evolves, arises and passes away. In that sense, I see with a different eyes how some meditation practices forbid any physical movement. Perhaps, it's meant to force the yogi to face this aversion and surrender completely. Also, the mere act of breathing involves some kind of tension. If relaxed enough, it's surprisingly longer than expected that the gap between the outbreath and inbreath, and that the inbreath happens on its own, that you can watch the breath happen without interferences (for a while).

I know the above may sound sketchy, but I want to kick-start the discussion. I would love to hear further practical insights about the subject from fellow forum members.

RE: Difference between relaxation and letting-go
Answer
7/23/13 9:52 AM as a reply to Pablo . P.
You cannot DO surrender. Trying to surrender/let go is still doing something. Even doing nothing is doing something. You can set up yourself for surrender but the actual total letting go is not something you can do with intention. Look up Shinzen Young's 'Do Nothing' video on YouTube. However, this wasn't that useful to me until late 3rd path territory. But everyone is different.

RE: Difference between relaxation and letting-go
Answer
7/23/13 11:42 AM as a reply to Russell ..
Hi Russell, I'll check up Shinzen Young's 'Do Nothing' video. In fact, I don't try to set up the letting-go, it just happens. I was trying to point out that the intention to relax is far from letting-go. But your words "Even doing nothing is doing something" are intriguing. Isn't awareness doing something too? How can you let go completely and still not be aware of it? Or is it something that you can recall but not experience, like a cessation?

RE: Difference between relaxation and letting-go
Answer
7/23/13 12:08 PM as a reply to Pablo . P.
Now I get clearer what you meant. Shinzen Young's instructions for the "Do Nothing" Approach are:

1. Let whatever happens happen.
2. As you are aware of an intention to control you attention, drop that intention.

RE: Difference between relaxation and letting-go
Answer
7/23/13 12:45 PM as a reply to Pablo . P.
I've found that awareness brought to a tension is enought to have it released.

However, if you fix your attention to a tension, it might stay there for longer, 'cause the act of putting attention to something is very much of an interference to the natural flow of awareness/energies/tensions moving inside us.

I've found tension to be complex, whole-bodied phenomena; in my practice I noticed that if I stay with a tension, seeing how that naturally draws attention to other places in the body, and staying with this fluxing process the thing eventually resolves itself in a way that is more complete and more efficient that trying to release it at will, or trying to see it passing away, and it's still pure insight practice, btw, 'cause the thing happens by itself.


Not sure that's what you asked, not sure if that's what you've already been doing... whatever, I wrote it

Bye!

EDIT
Also, I noticed that if I let a part of my awareness to remain at the crown, much of the process goes on underneath the threshold of awareness, but the simple fact that awareness is open allows the releasing process to happen quite quickly, because it seems to me that tensions have a way of resolving themselves when they hit the crown, like if that was some kind of a point of balance if the energetic body or something...

RE: Difference between relaxation and letting-go
Answer
7/23/13 2:44 PM as a reply to Pablo . P.
Tension is just after-effect and needed only to give hints where its source is and not doing anything to it can help with finding this source. Observing tensions will create necessary skill to find their sources so you seem like going good way

Then real work need to be done on source: you have to let it go. Because intent have to be genuine and pleasure is the source then it is hard and tricky thing to do. You genuinely want that pain to go away but that is useless. Key is to release grab and stop clinging to pleasure like allowing it to wander away from you but not doing nothing more than release the grip. If you try to fight pleasure then you will create aversion and at the sime time grab and cling to it from different side and all this will create a lot of confusion. Intent to release grab (or block) on pleasure have to be genuine otherwise it won't work

Effects of release kick in very fast making ignorant clinging seem such a stupid and sinful thing to do. Thing that caused that very feeling mind grabbed to is blocked and cannot be fully felt. This makes you feel less and less pleasure each time pleasurable event happens. Without grabbing it is possible to feel pleasure even without such event and there is no tension from clinging. Its a win-win situation

RE: Difference between relaxation and letting-go
Answer
7/24/13 6:41 AM as a reply to Pablo . P.
Along the lines of what you said, I have noticed a difference between two different ways of looking at the breath:

Sometimes it feels like there is only this one little thing, the breath, which I can't totally shutdown, and therefore my existence continues. Then I feel happy because I know this body is going to stop breathing sooner or later, and I'll finally be gone.

Reality, of course, is different: Truly letting go means to breathe and have no aversion or clinging to it. Maybe a belief in rebirth makes a difference here, because one understands that, with the breakup of this body, if there is still desire or aversion left, experience will continue. However, if you can get to the point of no (overt or lingering) desire or aversion, your body will continue, then cease, and then you won't get a new human body afterwards.

[I haven't made much, if any, progress past 1st path.]

RE: Difference between relaxation and letting-go
Answer
7/24/13 8:41 PM as a reply to Pablo . P.
Thanks for your input guys. I understand I made a mistake regarding terminology, as "letting-go" is a whole method towards enlightenment, whereas I was using it towards dealing with hindrances to reaching jhana. The critics still apply, but I guess the perfection of the practice needed is much lower.

Thanks again!

PD: Mario, I'll try centering at the crown spot and report back in the near future.