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Binary Noting-Self-referential thought

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I have been trying binary noting using non self- referential thought and self-referential thought without success. For instance, a memory arises of me at a certain time in my life. It is about me but I am not embedded in the thought. It seems it happened to someone else. The thought is the same kind as a thought of a thunderstorm several days ago. That  thought didn't have any me in it either.

Anyone try this? How do you distinguish the two?

RE: Binary Noting-Self-referential thought
Answer
8/27/14 11:04 AM as a reply to Jack Hatfield.

RE: Binary Noting-Self-referential thought
Answer
8/30/14 5:08 AM as a reply to Richard Zen.
Richard, thanks for the reference. It seems to assume I can already tell the difference between a non self-referential and self-referential thought which I have trouble doing. Can you shed some light on this for me?

By the way, I have found your posts very useful in the past. Thanks for posting.

RE: Binary Noting-Self-referential thought
Answer
8/30/14 2:13 PM as a reply to Jack Hatfield.
I don't think it assumes anything.  It's about breaking down the "me-ness" into what it actually is and then seeing it fall away on it's own. Thinking about yourself needs to be seen for what it is in real time.  It's just thinking. Wanting something is "wanting".  It's important to notice how habitual these things are so trying to forcibly remove them is a temporary relief.  It's more relief to welcome habitual impulses (to avoid a layer of stress) and to be mindful enough to wait for them to naturally pass away (another layer passing away naturally).  Letting go of holding preferences tightly should bring relief.  Clinging/rumination is the stress. I would even recommend letting go of all clinging (including clinging to meditation states, Buddhist concepts).  Just let go and even let go of the concept of a watcher which is just more subtle thinking.  Realise that everything is cause and effect and is letting go on it's own so "letting go" doesn't become a watcher forcibly blocking thinking.  Letting go is best when disenchantment happens on it's own.  Just see things ebbing and flowing because they always were.  It's the conceptual part of the mind that wants to tense up and solidify for survival reasons.

It's seeing that thought isn't a permanent thing and is caused by conditions (stimulus that triggers a response) and the habitual reaction. Disenchantment comes from seeing these things happen over and over again that you lose addictiveness/fixation/rumination/obsession towards them.  This is more portable than temporary concentration states and you can take with you wherever you go.  You want to get to the point where you've seen everything in the 4 foundations of mindfulness arise and pass away.  If you're disenchanted with all the 4 foundations of mindfulness then you're probably not clinging to anything so there should be big relief.

The final step after that is bringing this portable relief to work and actions so that you don't just lay around doing nothing but can follow more long-term higher values in your goals.  When clinging happens just look for what it's built up of.  That looking should be enough for letting go to happen on it's own.  This is why consistent mindfulness is needed throughout the day but one that is less draconian pushing thoughts away.  You want one that is light and seeing things just as they are.  

Seeing a documentary like the BBC Wonders of Life can give you more insight into how all things aren't inherently real but perceptions of objects that are built up of smaller particles.  Reacting with grasping/clinging/ruminating/fixation/obession towards these impermanent things is futile.  Let that insight seep in via meditation and watching the 3 characteristics.  In science there is the 2nd law of thermodynamics which states that all order eventually goes into disorder.  Our eating and procreating delay the inevitable but everything in the universe (including stars) will go into entropy/disorder like a sand castle turning into a small dune of sand particles.  Over trillions of years even these small particles breakdown into something smaller.  This allows for evolution and complexity to arise so there's still lots to appreciate but you'll appreciate them with less grasping. 

Make sense?  Watching experiences disappear without trying to make them disappear.

RE: Binary Noting-Self-referential thought
Answer
8/31/14 12:01 PM as a reply to Jack Hatfield.
I think I was trying to make something more complicated than it was. If I am disembedded from anthing that arises including consciousness or a witness, than there is no self-referential thought. To use my example from my post, a thought of a scene from my childhood is not self-referential if  I objectify it.

Gary Weber says 90% of our thoughts are self-referential. Get rid of those (objectify them) and we have a quiet mind, he says. But, not necessarily, if I understand corredtly. I could have lots of phenomena arise and pass away and a very busy mind even though I have objectified each one..Right?

RE: Binary Noting-Self-referential thought
Answer
8/31/14 1:26 PM as a reply to Jack Hatfield.
Clinging creates programming/conditioning so that what you think on repeatedly becomes a habit (especially if you have been doing the same thing for decades) so you will have those tendencies come back but they weaken and lose their conditioning because when you note you're not clinging to it.  You are also getting disenchanted with these tendencies because they are so repeititve and useless. By paying attention the brain can't go into a rumination.  It's like you're trying to forget the bad habits no different than how you forgot other habits in the past. This is why it's a gradual process and even masters can sleep with their students, continue taking drugs or pursue alcoholism if they don't let go enough.  Even a weakned habit can wreak havoc on your choices and actions.  It's about vigilance and consistency.  The brain needs constant reminding because it likes to hold out hope for clinging to give what it wants.

When you see those impulses arise and pass away the brain learns there is freedom if you wait for it and don't take any actions on the impulse. Then you have to cultivate new habits by making resolutions and pushing intentions in the correct direction according to your deep values. So keep welcoming the old habits (because repressing impulses doesn't work) and then not clinging or acting on those impulses.  Let anger and negativity arise but let it fade naturally. The noting shouldn't be blocking or repressing experiences.  It's just to label what's there so there is recognition of those patterns and the brain can learn what those patterns are doing to you.