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Claims to Attainments

RE: Fruition and stream entry?

RE: Fruition and stream entry?
Answer
10/3/14 2:40 PM as a reply to Dream Walker.
Dream Walker:
Ernest Michael Olmos:
For now, I do claim SE, not carved in stone but pretty sure. I don't worry too much about it, anyway.


hey congrats! (claps with one hand)
I'm glad you are enjoying where you have gotten to.
Good work, whether carved or not.
~D
Thanks. I'm still trying to integrate and understand.

From time to time I "check" if it dissapears.
I want to use this time well because soon, as I get used to it, I won't remember how it was perception before.

RE: Fruition and stream entry?
Answer
10/5/14 1:10 PM as a reply to Ernest Michael Olmos.
Congrats! Enjoy having the same life problems with exponentially more capacity to handle them calmly!

RE: Fruition and stream entry?
Answer
10/5/14 2:16 PM as a reply to Daniel Moretti.
Daniel Moretti:
Congrats! Enjoy having the same life problems with exponentially more capacity to handle them calmly!
Thanks a lot.

This forum helped a lot in the process.
To all that have posted in it, thanks a lot.

RE: Fruition and stream entry?
Answer
10/5/14 2:53 PM as a reply to Eric M W.
Eric M W:
Your experience sounds very promising. There are a few things that really help to "diagnose" SE, especially considering this is an internet forum and therefore it is a limited way of communicating.

Have you noticed any more blips or discontinuities? What happens if you incline your mind towards one?

Is there any sense of cycling?
Change in perspective holding. Still no blips or discontinuties. Tried to incline my mind towards a blip....nothing happened.
About cycling, yesterday I thought I was in a&p, but not sure.

Yesterday something happened. All day long there was "building up concentration". I could easily "see" impermanence or no self at will. At night, before sleep, concentration was "solid", rock solid stillness of mind, like I could not handle that much concentration. 

Woke up in the middle of the night (2am) and the mind start feeling like "posibilities", like some things that you normaly cant change can.
There was no deep fear, no sense of being with somebody, just this "will energy".
Began to meditate, tried to shift the "will power" to metta (didnt work, at least not completely), then made some resolutions, then focus on the breath and the body. I do have a glass of water with me and I could hear a movement, like a drop of water in it (at least I think so).

The thing is, I had the "fruition like" certainty that things that arent so rational are possible. Like, "I dont understand how it is happenning but it is happening". No rational things include: voices, future, doing things to others, etc. I was really freaked out.

Didn't sleep all night long. In the morning I slept two hours (very, very deep rest) and I woke with a kind of hangover. Like drained but not rested. I still have this headache.
Now concentration is building again (and now I'm not so sure thats a good thing). I can feel the stillness, "moving".

The worst of all is that you would think that with this much concentration, jhana would be a piece of cake, but for some reason I can't do the pleasure thing, like it doesn't feel right.

RE: Fruition and stream entry?
Answer
10/5/14 4:05 PM as a reply to Eric M W.
I'd like to add one thing that I remember.

When I was in the middle of the night, after metta (didn't work), resolutions, irrationals things, etc.
I put my hands wide open in the floor and tried to "feel grounded". I think some energy moved doing good to the body.
The experience was not only mental but physical as well.

Yesterday morning, in yoga, the relationship between body-mind was a lot better. I thought it all was about better mind-power. But now I'm not so sure. Mind cannot make a muscle strech more without pain. Concentration cannot change the body in significant ways (right?)

I'm moving on a lot of fronts in the "morality-lifestyle" thing.

I do not post about physical things, because physical things (yoga, diet, exercise, etc) help on meditation but are not a requirement, and are usually ruled out as causes or consequences. Besides, they are very personal.

But yesterday experience makes me take notice that the body-mind relationship is not that simple described when strong concentration is accessed.

RE: Fruition and stream entry?
Answer
10/9/14 10:31 AM as a reply to Eric M W.
Eric M W:
Your experience sounds very promising. There are a few things that really help to "diagnose" SE, especially considering this is an internet forum and therefore it is a limited way of communicating.

Have you noticed any more blips or discontinuities? What happens if you incline your mind towards one?

Is there any sense of cycling?
Change in perspective remains, strong.
Regarding the blip, the other day I almost got one. I felt the stillness, and it was like someone was looking at me, right in front of my face.

I have to be careful because I feel so good (superman thing).
In my opinion, humility and honesty are great assets in the path (and I really should cultivate more of those).

I've been noticing differences when I focus on senses (eyesight, hearing, etc) and when I focus on feelings (noting practice).
I'm pretty sure I have to notice feelings to move forward, and I guess noting senses could make a review of the previous path up to fruition?

I guess it's a good idea to notice everything (and I do that), but with special focus on feelings (specially when with people), to move forward.

I've been reading the dho regarding the middle paths.
I thank all who have posted there (found very good tips).

Regarding the claim, I'm still pretty sure about it (evidence very strong), but if at some point evidence suggest otherwise (long time without any new fruitions?), I will "unclaim it", have no problem with that.

RE: Fruition and stream entry?
Answer
10/10/14 5:44 PM as a reply to Daniel Moretti.
Daniel Moretti:
Congrats! Enjoy having the same life problems with exponentially more capacity to handle them calmly!
Ironically, the problem I have is that I can't share any of this with anybody but you (thank you guys).
Today I even had to "dissimulate" the big smile i've been wearing all week. People look at me and think (why so happy?).
Even worse, I can feel the ego, the "I'm know something that you don't" thing, and I have to keep it under control.

To anyone with doubt about how (or if) to talk to people who are not into this about practice:

http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/98527?_19_redirect=%2Fweb%2Fguest%2Fdiscussion%2F-%2Fmessage_boards%2Fsearch%3F_19_redirect%3D%252Fweb%252Fguest%252Fdiscussion%26_19_breadcrumbsCategoryId%3D0%26_19_searchCategoryIds%3D0%26_19_keywords%3Dtoxic

One of Daniels best threads. I could't agree more.

Today I carefully approached telling someone and reaction wasn't good (no harm done).
Won't happen again.