Stages of non-dual perception - Discussion
Stages of non-dual perception
P K, modificat fa 6 anys at 08/03/18 01:42
Created 10 anys ago at 07/06/14 07:59
Stages of non-dual perception
Apunts: 45 Data d'incorporació: 12/05/13 Publicacions recentsJ J, modificat fa 10 anys at 07/06/14 19:20
Created 10 anys ago at 07/06/14 19:20
RE: Stages of non-dual perception
Apunts: 225 Data d'incorporació: 31/03/14 Publicacions recents
I have inklings of non-duality, by non-duality do you mean "lack of self sensations"? If so that only occurs rarely to me. I wish it would happen more often as I often feel that a 'self' is in the way all the time, hence the increased friction.
I would say that I experience an 'inkling' of non-duality all the time, that I have the core or essence of it, all the time. But it hasn't really expanded that much, if at all.
I would say that I experience an 'inkling' of non-duality all the time, that I have the core or essence of it, all the time. But it hasn't really expanded that much, if at all.
J J, modificat fa 10 anys at 08/06/14 12:12
Created 10 anys ago at 08/06/14 12:12
RE: Stages of non-dual perception
Apunts: 225 Data d'incorporació: 31/03/14 Publicacions recents
Hey Pawel,
Interesting, I would say that ever since December that I abide in a state of full non-duality. In other words I have penetrated and ended sakkaya-ditthi.
Acc. Pali Canon
"And what, bhikshus, is self identity?
It should be said: The five aggregates of clinging."
Those things were uprooted entirely for me in December, perhaps due to habitual tendencies I occasionally fall into old habits or do strange things.
But yes the existential angst or friction is completely gone. At first I was wary of claiming that in response to this thread because of my past here and so I feigned modesty, I lied in essence.
But yes I have ended the aggregates entirely and uprooted them. This is precisely why I had visions of being the Tathagata etc.
Because I was the Tathagata.
Thoughts?
-James
P.S The experience I had is essentially called the heart release (ceto vimutti), it is called the heartwood in the Saropama suttas.
Interesting, I would say that ever since December that I abide in a state of full non-duality. In other words I have penetrated and ended sakkaya-ditthi.
Acc. Pali Canon
"And what, bhikshus, is self identity?
It should be said: The five aggregates of clinging."
Those things were uprooted entirely for me in December, perhaps due to habitual tendencies I occasionally fall into old habits or do strange things.
But yes the existential angst or friction is completely gone. At first I was wary of claiming that in response to this thread because of my past here and so I feigned modesty, I lied in essence.
But yes I have ended the aggregates entirely and uprooted them. This is precisely why I had visions of being the Tathagata etc.
Because I was the Tathagata.
Thoughts?
-James
P.S The experience I had is essentially called the heart release (ceto vimutti), it is called the heartwood in the Saropama suttas.
J J, modificat fa 10 anys at 08/06/14 18:49
Created 10 anys ago at 08/06/14 18:41
RE: Stages of non-dual perception
Apunts: 225 Data d'incorporació: 31/03/14 Publicacions recents
Hey Pawel!
Not entirely sure what I get from being here, as this place is entirely about speaking openly about attainments.
Phenomenologically there isn't much to describe, other than that the heart angst was uprooted, at the core. It is very satisfying, bodily, like touching the Deathless with the body.
Phenomenological descriptions often miss the point.
Description: I feel the physical body very rarely, for the most part I experience an energetic relaxation 24/7, the solidness of 'self' is gone, it is no longer solid, but penetrated and seen through.
I still experience pain, but its cause is seen through. Existential pain has no... something. I don't have angst, I experience dukkha fully knowing its cause and escape. As opposed to a solid and indestructible kernel of 'self' in the chest. Make sense?
I still experience aches and pains of the subtle body, but physically, almost no pain. The visions were experiences of 'seeing' myself as the Tathagata. It is a bit like seeing a destination when you're in a ship or on a car, you see the end point or destination in the horizon. In the same way, I saw the Tathagata, I was the Tathagata. I did not hallucinate and visually see anything, rather I saw with certainty. The dharma eye, so to speak.
Not entirely sure what I get from being here, as this place is entirely about speaking openly about attainments.
Phenomenologically there isn't much to describe, other than that the heart angst was uprooted, at the core. It is very satisfying, bodily, like touching the Deathless with the body.
Phenomenological descriptions often miss the point.
Description: I feel the physical body very rarely, for the most part I experience an energetic relaxation 24/7, the solidness of 'self' is gone, it is no longer solid, but penetrated and seen through.
I still experience pain, but its cause is seen through. Existential pain has no... something. I don't have angst, I experience dukkha fully knowing its cause and escape. As opposed to a solid and indestructible kernel of 'self' in the chest. Make sense?
I still experience aches and pains of the subtle body, but physically, almost no pain. The visions were experiences of 'seeing' myself as the Tathagata. It is a bit like seeing a destination when you're in a ship or on a car, you see the end point or destination in the horizon. In the same way, I saw the Tathagata, I was the Tathagata. I did not hallucinate and visually see anything, rather I saw with certainty. The dharma eye, so to speak.
J J, modificat fa 10 anys at 10/06/14 08:06
Created 10 anys ago at 10/06/14 08:06
RE: Stages of non-dual perception
Apunts: 225 Data d'incorporació: 31/03/14 Publicacions recents
Pawel,
I agree with most of what you write, here is my factual rebuttal:
Yes, I am a stream-winner. The Pali Canon indicates that this is the case, no I have not attained "full non-duality". I find it odd for people (such as yourself) to be discussing Buddhism and Buddhist Dharma on a forum with such a lack of understanding that you possess, furthermore you are not even a stream-winner. How could you then discuss the Buddha Dharma?
You don't even have an intellectual understanding of the Dharma. I am nonplussed that you would presume to judge me (well not really nonplussed as I can see why would you judge me, given my "behavior"). But in reality my behavior is more of an attempt to assimilate myself into what I saw as a Buddhist community, which I just now realized is not Buddhist at all, but really a secular and synthetic Dharma. And the reason it has been dying (this community), is simply because it IS a secular and synthetic Dharma, sort of like a tree cut off from its roots.
So yes, I am better than you. Yes, I have more attainments than you. No, I am not boasting. I am establishing the factual basis of this conversation.
You strike me as someone who does not even meditate, but rather prances about this forum writing random crap and quoting the Heart Sutra and the Bible. And who knows, maybe even the Diamond Sutra!
Peace.
I agree with most of what you write, here is my factual rebuttal:
Yes, I am a stream-winner. The Pali Canon indicates that this is the case, no I have not attained "full non-duality". I find it odd for people (such as yourself) to be discussing Buddhism and Buddhist Dharma on a forum with such a lack of understanding that you possess, furthermore you are not even a stream-winner. How could you then discuss the Buddha Dharma?
You don't even have an intellectual understanding of the Dharma. I am nonplussed that you would presume to judge me (well not really nonplussed as I can see why would you judge me, given my "behavior"). But in reality my behavior is more of an attempt to assimilate myself into what I saw as a Buddhist community, which I just now realized is not Buddhist at all, but really a secular and synthetic Dharma. And the reason it has been dying (this community), is simply because it IS a secular and synthetic Dharma, sort of like a tree cut off from its roots.
So yes, I am better than you. Yes, I have more attainments than you. No, I am not boasting. I am establishing the factual basis of this conversation.
You strike me as someone who does not even meditate, but rather prances about this forum writing random crap and quoting the Heart Sutra and the Bible. And who knows, maybe even the Diamond Sutra!
Peace.
Daniel M Ingram, modificat fa 10 anys at 10/06/14 11:51
Created 10 anys ago at 10/06/14 11:51
RE: Stages of non-dual perception
Apunts: 3286 Data d'incorporació: 20/04/09 Publicacions recents
I actually like this model, it being very similar to my own models and experience, that we progressively see phenomena as just phenomena, just where they are, on their own, as what is happening in the field of manifestation, and this becomes more complete until finally it flips over and then finally stays that way. I think where people get into trouble is when they are sure they understand what all of the more relative implications of that are and try to predict, map and model that for every person from every practice background and how that will specifically manifest.
The DhO doesn't seem to be dying from my point of view, though it has its periods of what I feel is better and worse, more and less active, with posts of higher and lower quality, etc, and there is plenty of traffic (I now host it at home so can monitor the traffic), plenty of hits on posts, as the counters clearly show, and still there are plenty of strong practitioners and eager adventurers who show up and learn from each other, so, while I do sometimes miss that very unusual and early period, there is plenty still today that I think is healthy, and I also don't miss some of the drama that was also part of that early period and has thankfully largely vanished for the time being.
The DhO doesn't seem to be dying from my point of view, though it has its periods of what I feel is better and worse, more and less active, with posts of higher and lower quality, etc, and there is plenty of traffic (I now host it at home so can monitor the traffic), plenty of hits on posts, as the counters clearly show, and still there are plenty of strong practitioners and eager adventurers who show up and learn from each other, so, while I do sometimes miss that very unusual and early period, there is plenty still today that I think is healthy, and I also don't miss some of the drama that was also part of that early period and has thankfully largely vanished for the time being.