Hi All,

Could someone tell me what the deal is with moving progressively through the nañas during a meditation session? In my own practice this seems to be what happens (I start out at the first and move progressively through the Progress of Insight until I "hit" the naña I'm currently "at"). Daniel Ingram talks a little obliquely about this phenomenon in MCTB but I'm still left wondering . . .

Do yogis move progressively through the nañas in during each sitting; do the do so repeatedly during each sitting; do they move up and down, or just from start to finish in a loop?

Just trying to navigate the waters here . . . I'd be grateful for any responses. Thanks!

I've been confused about this too... .

From my own experience: I would get up to the 11th nana Moving quickly through from 1st to 11th) and then fall back down into the 10th in one sit and at times I would finish the sit in the 11th without falling back, but eventually I would fall back into 10th sometime later in the day or days later if I didn't keep sitting. This was all pre-SE.

So yes, what you describe sounds like what happens.



Yes they usually do, at least those I've talked with and usually those who practice Mahasi noting. They can move up and then back down. Start to finish then back to start again sounds like post Stream Entry when after the 11th a fruition occurs and resets a yogi back at the 4th nana and then back up to repeat. Pre-SE, a yogi will be moving up to their 'cutting' edge and then back down, back up, back down, etc till they hit a fruition, mahasi style.

My 2 cents,

nick

Thanks, Nick - as always, a very helpful response!

Yes, thanks from me to. i've been wondering about this. also i wonder how, if at all, this cycling relates to being in particular jhanas. the relationship between nanas and jhanas is so interesting...

The jhanas, as talked of in MCTB, match up to specific nanas. They are called vipassana jhanas

Some other links are here.

Thanks Nik. What i guess i was sort of getting at is, if you are cycling through nanas, are you in the corresponding jhanas as you cycle?

Of general interest, I found something on this topic here: http://kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/page/Q+%26+A+on+Vipassana
about a third of the way down.

Some thing important on this page is that Kenneth discusses the importance of working on samatha to get from A&P sort of territory up to 11th nana.

You would be in the corresponding 'vipassana jhana' where discernment can be practiced. However if you aim more towards a samatha jhana, riding the pleasantness inherent in the 1st, 4th, 5th or the 11th nana, you will get more absorbed in the pleasantness and move towards a more deeply absorbed jhana. You may or may not be able to discern if you go real deep as the urge to discern may drop away.




The more concentrated the yogi, the faster the progress. Developing access to a more absorbed jhana may help in this arena as long as 'discernment' is kept in mind as the ultimate goal of practice.

Nick