For quite a while, I have used medications to get out of re-observation. Before I have used clonazepam but those days I am using neurotin, which doesn't have some of the issues benzos have. Pretty much any muscle relaxants works to some extend and I have been on quite a few. It can be a very short acting muscle relaxant, only to give that extra relaxation needed to cross the wall. I wonder if some of you have similar experiences and what to make out of it. It's not clear if there is truly some lesson to learn by getting out of re-observation the hard way. I did learn very important lessons in some very difficults re-observation, a lot of giving up, sorrow and crying, but it's not clear that this is necessary. A lot can be learned and developed in equanimity. I feel that what I have learn in re-observation has more to do with affect than non-duality. 

It seems that we lack proper theory on what is going on in re-observation and how it relate to this path. It's pretty much the only stage where I found some use with medication. There is no other stages of the dark night where I got benefits from medication. I find some use in equanimity, though. 

There was instances where I used medications on retreats to deal with some terrible re-observation, the pressure that had built up just being unbearable. Those days, it's more about simply being able to go through my day as a layperson. There are days when I just endure re-observation all day and maybe take my medication in the evening. Some other days, I take it in the morning to get the fuck out of there as soon as possible. I still cannot establish clear benefits in relation to this path (I'm more inclined that there is no point to stay in re-observation) outside simply keep my sanity.

Re-Observation can be a real bitch, that's for sure. I've passed through it twice (that I know of), two years ago before I knew what the progress of insight was. Two years before I realized that odd dream with bright lights and meditation might have started something I can't stop... but anyway.

The first time I "broke through," I was dreaming. I dreamt I was standing in front of my kitchen sink, and a mutual friend was there with me, crying because she felt her marriage was falling apart. I was listening with a compassionate ear, when I noticed that it was very, very dark outside the window. I couldn't tell if it was night time or a bad storm. Suddenly, I was thrust out the window, out into the open air (it was a two-story apartment). It was a storm for sure, and I was now caught in the middle-- wind, hail, rain, pure chaos. But the storm was nothing compared to the creature that stood before me. It was an animal with its face half-rotted and glowing red eyes, it was my own madness. My fears, my despair, my disgust, staring right back at me.

My wife shook me awake at this point. She said I had been crying and moaning in my sleep. When I woke up I realized there was an odd inner silence, and it felt like something had clicked into place... low EQ, though I didn't know it at the time.

The second time through Re-Obs, I was sitting on my porch, moving up through the dukkha nanas. This was very shortly after the dream, so I still had no idea what was happening. I thought I had developed some kind of anxiety disorder. I remember disgust and desire for deliverance clearly, even today, and then it felt like the edges of my brain were spinning and screaming, and I wanted to tear my hair out in pure primal frustration. I thought, "There is no way anyone can suffer this much and still be alive." And with that, it kind of shifted out a bit. I was watching it rather than being in it, and it faded over the rest of the day. Another peek into Low EQ.

Then, of course, I stopped meditating and became the grumpy guy I am today, trying to get back on the ride. I know I'd do anything for some valium or the dumbed-down bliss of codeine on my bad days, but you just gotta take it one moment at a time.

Best advice for surviving Re-Obs: cultivate the second brahma vihara, compassion, and look on the sensations with that feeling, noting "This too. This too." Accept what is happening.

Hmmm. that is interesting. I wonder how much the medications allow you to stop struggling with the out of phase weirdness and suffering of the DN and accept it on it's terms and allows you to see it clearly and get thru it. I have learned to look at it as clearly as I can and totally go with the sensations....hug the cactus closely with acceptance and trust that again I'll move on thru ok just like the many many times before. Last time was last week and it lasted 3 hours or so intensely but much less then it used to be. I also took a nap and when I woke up I was in EQ.
Good advice Eric...I think of the quote from Shinzen Young. Suffering = pain x resistance. Acceptance instead of resistance seems to be the key. The last thing you want to do, but it seems to work.
~D

It surely break the "the is impossible" thought loop in some way. It lower the level of awfulness a notch. A noticeable difference is that if I get out of re-observation without medication, I will almost certainly cry when it happens. Sometimes, it just my eyes getting wet just for the little moment I pass through it. On medication, the odds that I cry are lower. It works better if I am already at the edge of re-observation and take the medication then.

If its clonazepam, the effect of medication can give me some trouble once in equanimity, as clonazepam make the mind dull. 

Hi, Simon,

I was in the Dark Night from February till the second week in June. I tried really, really hard not to go on medication, but I was falling apart and didn't want to end up on a psych ward. I went on SNRI antidepressants, Neurontin, and the occasional muscle relaxer. It helped a lot, and my only regret is that I didn't start the SNRIs months sooner. When I reached a therapeutic dose, second week in June, EQ broke through. And then apparent stream entry a couple of weeks ago. Some people say you have to develop equanimity in the face of the DN before SE can be reached. Well, apparently not! I never developed one iota of equanimity or acceptance of what was happening to me. Disgust was so disgusting that I lost 20 lbs. from not eating.

So I agree, I think, that we don't have a clear articulation of what purpose or good all this darkness serves. In a way, I think it is just a final process of disenchantment with samsara, a way to Desire for Deliverance. MCTB does say no one gets anything extra from spending more time than is necessary in the Dark Night.

Peace,

Jenny

LOL, I thought I was the only one! I lost 25 lbs during my big DN episode and have never gotten it back. 

As for EQ in the face of the DN, I think it's still important. Perhaps medications make it more tolerable, thus a kind of acceptance of what is happening naturally arises, and gives way to real EQ as the 11th nana arrives. Remember that U Pandita includes the DN and EQ in his 4th vipassana jhana, which I think is interesting and potentially profound.

Whats interesting...Daniel puts DN in the third and EQ in 4th. This is my experience too. Not that you shouldn't move to 4th jhana and experience DN from there if you can....just I've never been able to do that.
~D

Recently I shifted my ReOb paradigm from 'trying to beat this level' to 'letting the purification happen'. I like Shinzen's take on this
That said, I sometimes use L-Theanine, phenibut, and valerian root to ease the ReOb edge.

Interesting to see you also used neurontin. I was on lyrica for most of the last 4 years. Those days, I use neurontin as it's cheaper and is a bit more stimulating. I regrets I didn't bring any of those on my last retreats as I'm pretty sure I could have pushed much harder using it and access more easily high-equanimity. I never got any success with SNRI or SSRI but got some help from antidpressant like wellbutrin in the past. In Canada we have a safe MAOI (Manerix) which offer a very clean anxiolitic effect, similar to neurontin. Neurontin still make the mind a little bit dull. I also had some success with baclofen but I came back to neurontin and manerix. Kenneth Folk mentions being on 2 antidepressants when in 3th path so it's not unheard of. I prefer to stick to medication that have short acting duration, as opposed as SSRI, which are nasty and requires time to have effect and to tap off.

What I feel is missing from Young presentation is this idea of the re-observation edge and the various kind of acceptation we have to bring from desire of delivrance to high-equanimity. There is a build of of tension that is necessary for ReOb to pop. One method that I have used sometimes to pop ReOb is to look at pictures of loved one that I'm far away from or watch videos or listen to music that have some form of emotional content that deal with courage and nostalgia. 

I have heard of Re-obervation being included in the 4th vipassana jhana by some but never the whole dark night. I would be curious to hear more about this by those that have a good graps of jhanas. In line with Eric comments, it might have something to do with the necessity for acceptance in the dark night. Despite all the shitty stuff going on in the DN, there is still a form of bitter equanimity all along. Desire for delivrance comes to mind in regard to that. My mind can be tinkering with all kind of escape scenarios, going live in the woods or taking the robe, but there is also a stillness, or a passive observation, for lack of better word. While equanimity is "equanimity toward all formations", in the DN it's "equanimity toward enough formations to keep going".  

I take 900 mg of Neurontin (gabapentin) in the evenings only. It is a kind of weird dose and based on what helps me sleep. This drug prevents migraines, which I suffer from, and also restless leg syndrome, which sometimes bothers me. It is much, much safer than benzos and creates a similar anti-anxiety effect. It is stimulating for about an hour after taking it, so for sleep it is best to take it well ahead of when you want to sleep. SSRIs only make me feel worse; they never work for me. Apparently I have a problem with the norepinephrine's being insufficient. SNRIs also happen to prevent my migraines very effectively--or, rather, Cymbalta does (others not so much).

One goal I've been working on is getting my serum copper down and my zinc up. My excess unbound copper is 47%. Anything over 15% is a problem--is causative in Alzhiemer's disease, anxiety, and insomnia. I've learned through much reading that mineral levels and balance is foundational for health. In fact, vitamins cannot really be absorbed well until the mineral foundation is there. Zinc cured my insomnia from the very first night I took it.

That is awesome

Thats interesting, because in my Dark Nights I have trouble listening to music. I'm a musician, but my dark night was so anhedonic that I didn't see any point in listening to music. I found movies and writing to be better, but thats just me.

In regards to the thread, I started taking clonanzepam during my Re-Ob because I just couldn't sleep and was verging on madness. I got better at getting into jhanas but that still didn't help me sleep. The whole experience reminds me of the manic and depressive phases of going back on anti-depressants: A&P as the manic, grandiose high, DN as the come down.