TM - Discussion
TM
Jack Hatfield, geändert vor 9 Jahren at 30.01.15 08:55
Created 9 Jahren ago at 30.01.15 08:55
TM
Beiträge: 98 Beitrittsdatum: 05.07.10 Neueste Beiträge
Is the technique for transcentental meditation (TM) any different from any other mantra orientated meditation?
Jake , geändert vor 9 Jahren at 30.01.15 13:04
Created 9 Jahren ago at 30.01.15 13:04
RE: TM
Beiträge: 695 Beitrittsdatum: 22.05.10 Neueste Beiträge
Hmm, it seems like it is. My impression from reading the Wikipedia article and reading David Lynch's book many years ago is that it is quite different from how mantras are related to in Tibetan Buddhism for instance. In the latter case there are explicitly different ways they can be related to anyway so already there is difference in the possible ways of approaching mantra practice, just within one tradition with which I have personal familiarity, so I'd have to say technically the answer to your question is 'yes'.
Also, methods are so deeply interwoven with views that it may be impossible, IMO, to seperate them and strictly answer your question r.e. 'technique' (especially since I have never practiced TM and am unaware of the framework/view within which it is taught).
Why do you ask? What do you think?
Also, methods are so deeply interwoven with views that it may be impossible, IMO, to seperate them and strictly answer your question r.e. 'technique' (especially since I have never practiced TM and am unaware of the framework/view within which it is taught).
Why do you ask? What do you think?
Jack Hatfield, geändert vor 9 Jahren at 30.01.15 13:17
Created 9 Jahren ago at 30.01.15 13:17
RE: TM
Beiträge: 98 Beitrittsdatum: 05.07.10 Neueste Beiträge
I ask because I read the articles at http://www.truthabouttm.org/truth/TMResearch/ComparisonofTechniques/index.cfm. It says there are 3 types of meditation. One is concentration meditation. The article splits off TM from concentraion meditation and ezplains it by the following:
3. Automatic Self-Transcending techniques. The Transcendental Meditation technique falls within the third category, automatic self-transcending meditation, which is associated with alpha-1 (7-9 Hz) EEG, characteristic of reduced mental activity and relaxation.Whereas concentration and open monitoring meditations both require some mental effort (i.e., holding attention on its object or maintaining a stance of open monitoring, respectively), automatic self-transcending meditation is the effortless transcending of the meditation process itself (Travis, Arenander, & DuBois, 2004; Travis et al., 2010). It is said to automatically lead to the experience of “consciousness itself”, the screen of awareness without any objects of awareness, a
low-stress state called transcendental or pure consciousness (Travis & Pearson, 2000).
I started meditation with TM and did it for about 10 years. I find that the breath meditation I do now gets the same results and just changes the object of meditation, mantra to breath. Other than that, I think they are the same. The quote above made me think that maybe TM has changed from when I first was taught it 45 years ago.
3. Automatic Self-Transcending techniques. The Transcendental Meditation technique falls within the third category, automatic self-transcending meditation, which is associated with alpha-1 (7-9 Hz) EEG, characteristic of reduced mental activity and relaxation.Whereas concentration and open monitoring meditations both require some mental effort (i.e., holding attention on its object or maintaining a stance of open monitoring, respectively), automatic self-transcending meditation is the effortless transcending of the meditation process itself (Travis, Arenander, & DuBois, 2004; Travis et al., 2010). It is said to automatically lead to the experience of “consciousness itself”, the screen of awareness without any objects of awareness, a
low-stress state called transcendental or pure consciousness (Travis & Pearson, 2000).
I started meditation with TM and did it for about 10 years. I find that the breath meditation I do now gets the same results and just changes the object of meditation, mantra to breath. Other than that, I think they are the same. The quote above made me think that maybe TM has changed from when I first was taught it 45 years ago.
Jake , geändert vor 9 Jahren at 30.01.15 16:28
Created 9 Jahren ago at 30.01.15 16:28
RE: TM
Beiträge: 695 Beitrittsdatum: 22.05.10 Neueste Beiträge
Hmm interesting. Yeah I was under the general impression it would fit in the "concentration" category. Again, I think we can only separate methods from views in the abstract.
Jake , geändert vor 9 Jahren at 03.02.15 14:19
Created 9 Jahren ago at 03.02.15 14:19
RE: TM
Beiträge: 695 Beitrittsdatum: 22.05.10 Neueste Beiträge
Also that link looked pretty pro-TM just based on my immediate first impression of the name of the link and I just went to the site and checked it out and indeed after a cursory glance at the site's homepage I would say, yes, it definitely is a site with an agenda (of propogating the 'truth' about TM, which the site owner says involves 'addressing the few inevitable criticisms' from the site author's 'scientific viewpiont'.)
I don't put those phrases in quotes to disparage the author by the way, I am just drawing attention to the agenda of the site and putting that observation out there for what it's worth.
As for how many kinds of meditation there are, that's an interesting-- and, to me, open-- question. A lot depends on our definition of meditation and the degree of detail we look to for determining what would count as a 'kind'. It certainly seems true to me, based merely on my impresions of meditation studies, that scholarship and science have reproduced the traditional buddhist typology of concentration vs. insight meditation in a lot of the meditation research.
I don't put those phrases in quotes to disparage the author by the way, I am just drawing attention to the agenda of the site and putting that observation out there for what it's worth.
As for how many kinds of meditation there are, that's an interesting-- and, to me, open-- question. A lot depends on our definition of meditation and the degree of detail we look to for determining what would count as a 'kind'. It certainly seems true to me, based merely on my impresions of meditation studies, that scholarship and science have reproduced the traditional buddhist typology of concentration vs. insight meditation in a lot of the meditation research.
Conner Patrick Joyce, geändert vor 9 Jahren at 05.02.15 00:51
Created 9 Jahren ago at 05.02.15 00:51
RE: TM
Beiträge: 12 Beitrittsdatum: 24.11.14 Neueste Beiträge
As far as I know TM is closly linked if not a direct link to the Vedic teachings and is probably close to what the Buddha's teachers Kalama and Ramaputta taught, although I could be wrong.
TM also sounds a lot like Shinzen Young's method called "Do Nothing" which he traces back to Dzochen and Mahamudra and also Zazen (Zen's 'just sitting').
What do you all think?
TM also sounds a lot like Shinzen Young's method called "Do Nothing" which he traces back to Dzochen and Mahamudra and also Zazen (Zen's 'just sitting').
What do you all think?
Eric B, geändert vor 9 Jahren at 05.02.15 11:53
Created 9 Jahren ago at 05.02.15 11:53
RE: TM
Beiträge: 187 Beitrittsdatum: 24.08.09 Neueste BeiträgeJack Hatfield:
Is the technique for transcentental meditation (TM) any different from any other mantra orientated meditation?
The actual technique itself is the same as any mantra meditation where the mantra is simply repeated without being cordinated with the breath. There are mantra techniques where a syllable (perhaps syllables?) is cordinated with the in-breath and another syllable is cordinated with the out-breath.
Jack Hatfield, geändert vor 9 Jahren at 05.02.15 15:00
Created 9 Jahren ago at 05.02.15 15:00
RE: TM
Beiträge: 98 Beitrittsdatum: 05.07.10 Neueste BeiträgeJake , geändert vor 9 Jahren at 05.02.15 16:08
Created 9 Jahren ago at 05.02.15 16:08
RE: TM
Beiträge: 695 Beitrittsdatum: 22.05.10 Neueste Beiträge
From what I have observed about TM, it seems radically, completely different from Zen and Dzogchen, which are also pretty different from each other and within themselves have different sub-traditions. Maybe the claim that TM is properly an effortless practice is something that you are picking up on? Even there, it seems that TM explains this as a result of mind being attracted to pleasent states and thus capable of effortlessly progressing towards more and more pleasent states. If so this, the 'effortless' word notwithstanding, is also pretty super duper different from the way effortlessness is meant in Dzogchen or Zen. But like I said I have no practical experience with TM.