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Stages of Insight

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Stages of Insight
Answer
2/24/19 8:19 AM
According to MCTB (revised and expanded edition, p 212), after crossing the A&P, unless we die or get brain damage, we go into stages 5-10 and stay there, cycling through them until we get to SE.
But then on page 449 etc., Daniel describes having multiple A&Ps pre-stream entry.

So is dropping back down to earlier stages of Insight another way to avoid the DN, without resorting to death or brain injury? And is it common if practice is not adequatley sustained after A&P? I'm asking because I've had textbook A&P (on retreat) but am now pootling along quite happily now, but with no idea where I am on the map. 

RE: Stages of Insight
Answer
2/24/19 8:33 AM as a reply to pseud.
Before stream entry, every single meditation usually starts with a moment in mind and body. It is common to drop down to A&P from equanimity, and that’s tricky because it is easy to neglect realizing that. A&P can feel so good that one misses to notice the lack of broad awareness and equanimity.

RE: Stages of Insight
Answer
2/25/19 8:44 AM as a reply to pseud.
pseud:
According to MCTB (revised and expanded edition, p 212), after crossing the A&P, unless we die or get brain damage, we go into stages 5-10 and stay there, cycling through them until we get to SE.
But then on page 449 etc., Daniel describes having multiple A&Ps pre-stream entry.

So is dropping back down to earlier stages of Insight another way to avoid the DN, without resorting to death or brain injury? And is it common if practice is not adequatley sustained after A&P? I'm asking because I've had textbook A&P (on retreat) but am now pootling along quite happily now, but with no idea where I am on the map. 


Could you type in the "staying there" part of the quote from p.212? 

RE: Stages of Insight
Answer
2/25/19 9:03 AM as a reply to shargrol.

RE: Stages of Insight
Answer
2/25/19 2:02 PM as a reply to shargrol.
shargrol:

Could you type in the "staying there" part of the quote from p.212? 

"Once we have crossed the Arising and Passing Away (and if we don’t suddenly die or get severe brain damage due to some unfortunate life circumstances), we shall enter insight stages five through ten regardless of whether we want to. It doesn’t matter if we practice from this point on; once we cross the A&P, we are in the Dark Night to some degree and become what is sometimes called a “Dark Night yogi”, or simply “darknighter”, until we figure out how to get through it. If we do get through it without getting to the first stage of enlightenment, we will have to go through it again and again until we do. I mean this in the most absolute terms."

RE: Stages of Insight
Answer
2/25/19 2:38 PM as a reply to pseud.
pseud:
shargrol:

Could you type in the "staying there" part of the quote from p.212? 

"Once we have crossed the Arising and Passing Away (and if we don’t suddenly die or get severe brain damage due to some unfortunate life circumstances), we shall enter insight stages five through ten regardless of whether we want to. It doesn’t matter if we practice from this point on; once we cross the A&P, we are in the Dark Night to some degree and become what is sometimes called a “Dark Night yogi”, or simply “darknighter”, until we figure out how to get through it. If we do get through it without getting to the first stage of enlightenment, we will have to go through it again and again until we do. I mean this in the most absolute terms."


That doesn’t say anything about staying there all the time. It just says that one will inevitably return there again and again until one gets stream entry. I have seen Daniel state explicitly that one may reach equanimity and then drop back to A&P, and after that, the dukkha nanas follow.

This is a video where he mentions a number of different options: https://vimeo.com/69475208

RE: Stages of Insight
Answer
2/25/19 3:07 PM as a reply to pseud.
Yes, I think "we are in the Dark Night to some degree" is basically describing that there is a general mood about being someone who has gone past the A&P which is dark-night-ish. But that's not to say that when they sit they would never experience the Mind and Body nana or Three Charicterisitics nana again, for example. And certainly it's possible to experience the A&P many times before SE.

RE: Stages of Insight
Answer
2/26/19 12:17 PM as a reply to shargrol.
Thanks both of you. I have seen that video before but will need to re-watch.