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Pyrokinesis
Answer
11/10/10 12:15 AM
Hi,

A couple of years ago I was in China studying neigong and Taoists practices and recorded this of a (about) 100 yr old Chan monk using qi to start a fire on a bit of paper held a few meters away.

I have uploaded the file to you tube. I hope it inspires people to be open minded to the possibilities that exist. I have some other demos that I may put up later.

This is a similar techniques to the video of Jim passing his 2nd level test in Mo Pai that has been on this site

thanks
Jeff


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIkjvPm-Bto

RE: Pyrokinesis
Answer
11/9/10 3:11 PM as a reply to Jeff Grove.
Oh that's nothin! Lemme know when he can do this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlPLgOGsZKw .

RE: Pyrokinesis
Answer
11/9/10 6:32 PM as a reply to Jeff Grove.
Hey Jeff,

certainly impressive demonstration (if it is indeed real).

I wonder what exactly is your relation to powers now after becoming actually free?
As you - I assume - arenĀ“t able to exercise any of those yourself any longer, what is the value you ascribe to them?

For me the fascination if powers existed or could be used pragmatically was and is always related to some kind of power trip, a desire to have control over others or get their respect. In that regard I do not see them as too useful although I guess they certainly might serve as an entrance for people to become fascinated by the 'power of the mind'.

RE: Pyrokinesis
Answer
11/10/10 12:19 AM as a reply to Martin M.
I was fortunate to witness and participate in a number of different demonstrations and I am convinced they were real. Western science is only starting to look at these possibilities without skepticism whereas before it would have been put down to a magicians trick.

Western science doesn't have the monopoly on investigation into natural science as Taoism has a long history of experiential investigation. There is an energy (qi) that the west has yet to quantify. This energy is part and parcel with the actual world. These monks have spent years with breath practices, standing practices and meditation. The ability to sit in utter stillness is a large factor in the collection of yang qi and this would be dependent on their emotional state.

cheers
Jeff

RE: Pyrokinesis
Answer
11/10/10 1:46 AM as a reply to Jeff Grove.
Jeff Grove:
Western science is only starting to look at these possibilities without skepticism whereas before it would have been put down to a magicians trick. ... There is an energy (qi) that the west has yet to quantify.


Occam's Razor, you know. Western science simply hasn't had any really impelling reason to quantify qi so far, as phenomena can always be explained in simpler terms which are well understood. My understanding of the powers is precisely that they manifest through what is there - they are not an optional extra to reality.

BTW, the mention of "marsh mallows" in the video is interesting. Burning paper smells nothing like burning marsh mallows. This, for example, makes me think the paper was chemically prepared in some way - now we only have to find the laser pointer or microwave emoticon But I wasn't there.

However, this is of much greater interest to me:

This energy is part and parcel with the actual world.


Could you elaborate on this? For example, would it be possible to induce a PCE through appreciation of the powers in the same way as by appreciation of sensual perception?

Cheers,
Florian

RE: Pyrokinesis
Answer
11/10/10 3:44 AM as a reply to Florian.
Florian Weps:
Jeff Grove:
Western science is only starting to look at these possibilities without skepticism whereas before it would have been put down to a magicians trick. ... There is an energy (qi) that the west has yet to quantify.


Occam's Razor, you know. Western science simply hasn't had any really impelling reason to quantify qi so far, as phenomena can always be explained in simpler terms which are well understood. My understanding of the powers is precisely that they manifest through what is there - they are not an optional extra to reality.

BTW, the mention of "marsh mallows" in the video is interesting. Burning paper smells nothing like burning marsh mallows. This, for example, makes me think the paper was chemically prepared in some way - now we only have to find the laser pointer or microwave emoticon But I wasn't there.

However, this is of much greater interest to me:

This energy is part and parcel with the actual world.


Could you elaborate on this? For example, would it be possible to induce a PCE through appreciation of the powers in the same way as by appreciation of sensual perception?

Cheers,
Florian


Hi Florian,

The paper was pulled out of a friends note book, no one else came in contact with it before the demostration. First he attempted to burn a shirt taken off my friends back but when it didn't burn to well we checked it out and it was fire retardant material. He also burnt my hand from across the room.

This energy has nothing to do with the supernatural they have an exercise regime which is repeatable and well mapped out.

cheers
Jeff

RE: Pyrokinesis
Answer
11/10/10 3:43 AM as a reply to Jeff Grove.
Jeff Grove:
Florian Weps:
Jeff Grove:
Western science is only starting to look at these possibilities without skepticism whereas before it would have been put down to a magicians trick. ... There is an energy (qi) that the west has yet to quantify.


Occam's Razor, you know. Western science simply hasn't had any really impelling reason to quantify qi so far, as phenomena can always be explained in simpler terms which are well understood. My understanding of the powers is precisely that they manifest through what is there - they are not an optional extra to reality.

BTW, the mention of "marsh mallows" in the video is interesting. Burning paper smells nothing like burning marsh mallows. This, for example, makes me think the paper was chemically prepared in some way - now we only have to find the laser pointer or microwave emoticon But I wasn't there.

However, this is of much greater interest to me:

This energy is part and parcel with the actual world.


Could you elaborate on this? For example, would it be possible to induce a PCE through appreciation of the powers in the same way as by appreciation of sensual perception?

Cheers,
Florian


Hi Florian,

The paper was pulled out of a friends note book, no one else came in contact with it before the demonstration. First he attempted to burn a shirt taken off my friends back but when it didn't burn to well we checked it out and it was fire retardant material. He also burnt my hand from across the room.

This energy has nothing to do with the supernatural they have an exercise regime which is repeatable and well mapped out.


cheers
Jeff


Florian

Could you elaborate on this? For example, would it be possible to induce a PCE through appreciation of the powers in the same way as by appreciation of sensual perception?Florian



The way I would feel someones energy field would be how it distorted my energy field when they came close. This also happens when exchanging energy with trees (ping heng gong). The energy field was made up of vibrational sensations and with certain breath practice you could expand this field, this is the true da zhou tian large cycle universe. I haven't been practicing for a while so am unable to comment on the appreciation of these vibrational fields and whether they would lead to a PCE

RE: Pyrokinesis
Answer
11/10/10 8:58 AM as a reply to Jeff Grove.
Jeff Grove:

The paper was pulled out of a friends note book, no one else came in contact with it before the demostration. First he attempted to burn a shirt taken off my friends back but when it didn't burn to well we checked it out and it was fire retardant material. He also burnt my hand from across the room.

that is a curious account, and i would be interested to see the same results replicated in a heavily controlled environment (say, an isolated room, with only the subject and researchers present, with the subject not having come into physical contact, or even close proximity, with the material he aims to set aflame, etc).


more relevant to the dho's practice-oriented purpose, however, is the issue of what you intend to accomplish with this thread. do you wish to demonstrate that pyrokinesis is humanly possible? do you want to draw out similar second- or third-hand accounts from others here? do you aim to accomplish pyrokinesis yourself? if so, how do you intend to go about doing this? if you have already gone about learning to perform pyrokinesis, how have you practised, and what have been your results?

tarin

RE: Pyrokinesis
Answer
11/10/10 1:19 PM as a reply to Jeff Grove.
Jeff Grove:
Hi,

A couple of years ago I was in China studying neigong and Taoists practices and recorded this of a (about) 100 yr old Chan monk using qi to start a fire on a bit of paper held a few meters away.

I have uploaded the file to you tube. I hope it inspires people to be open minded to the possibilities that exist. I have some other demos that I may put up later.

This is a similar techniques to the video of Jim passing his 2nd level test in Mo Pai that has been on this site

thanks
Jeff


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIkjvPm-Bto



The video was removed by the user?

RE: Pyrokinesis
Answer
11/10/10 1:50 PM as a reply to tarin greco.
tarin greco:

more relevant to the dho's practice-oriented purpose, however, is the issue of what you intend to accomplish with this thread. do you wish to demonstrate that pyrokinesis is humanly possible? do you want to draw out similar second- or third-hand accounts from others here? do you aim to accomplish pyrokinesis yourself? if so, how do you intend to go about doing this? if you have already gone about learning to perform pyrokinesis, how have you practised, and what have been your results?
tarin


heh I have to say I'm liking your moderation abilities/approach. i feel before I make a post i can just ask myself questions like these , and then i probably often won't need to even make it.

RE: Pyrokinesis
Answer
11/10/10 1:51 PM as a reply to tarin greco.
tarin greco:
Jeff Grove:

The paper was pulled out of a friends note book, no one else came in contact with it before the demostration. First he attempted to burn a shirt taken off my friends back but when it didn't burn to well we checked it out and it was fire retardant material. He also burnt my hand from across the room.

that is a curious account, and i would be interested to see the same results replicated in a heavily controlled environment (say, an isolated room, with only the subject and researchers present, with the subject not having come into physical contact, or even close proximity, with the material he aims to set aflame, etc).


more relevant to the dho's practice-oriented purpose, however, is the issue of what you intend to accomplish with this thread. do you wish to demonstrate that pyrokinesis is humanly possible? do you want to draw out similar second- or third-hand accounts from others here? do you aim to accomplish pyrokinesis yourself? if so, how do you intend to go about doing this? if you have already gone about learning to perform pyrokinesis, how have you practised, and what have been your results?

tarin


Hi Tarin,

The intention was to give a glimpse of the possibilities that meditation and more specifically qigong and neigong can achieve. After witnessing these demonstrations first hand I realize that a lot of myths are based on fact. Usually I keep this to myself as it starts the usual arguments that its a magic trick, hes using a laser, there's a string tied to it etc. damm Mara again emoticon).

I had stopped these practices for the past 2 years to concentrate on enlightenment and actual freedom as these practices took at least 4 hrs a day of dedicated practice. Before stopping I had experienced well described stages of a map of progression. I have had success with using this energy for healing in the past. Tibetan Buddhism and Taoism have some similar energy practices. I learn t and practiced gtummo, anu yoga from a Ngakpa from the Nyingmapa tradition. There were a series of exercises that achieved a similar goal of opening the channels.

My master would always point out that the body is qi.

During my stay in China my teacher kicked off a transformation in me and a honey like substance oozed from every pore of my skin for about 3 days. He told me to taste my urine and sure enough it also tasted sweet. (not that I am into drinking urine)

I would be interested if anyone else has had witnessed anything like this.

If you live in the USA check out Robert Peng. I trained with his Sihing in Australia and he could also demonstrate amazing abilities for healing.


I have uploaded another 2 videos this time showing telekinesis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwdSMgbvYeI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mqe2bHL34N8

RE: Pyrokinesis
Answer
11/10/10 6:05 PM as a reply to Jeff Grove.
Hey Jeff

Sure it's pretty cool to look at someone set stuff on fire with their mind powers, but what have you known this to be used for?

I suppose it might come in handy if one were out in the wilderness and needed to start a fire for warmth or to cook food. To that end, are there many accounts of Thai Forest pyrokinetic monks, since a significant focus of that tradition is to practice in nature by oneself, as is the development of powers.

Steph

RE: Pyrokinesis
Answer
11/10/10 7:35 PM as a reply to Steph S.
Steph S:
Hey Jeff

Sure it's pretty cool to look at someone set stuff on fire with their mind powers, but what have you known this to be used for?

I suppose it might come in handy if one were out in the wilderness and needed to start a fire for warmth or to cook food. To that end, are there many accounts of Thai Forest pyrokinetic monks, since a significant focus of that tradition is to practice in nature by oneself, as is the development of powers.

Steph


Hi Steph,

There is a sutra were there is an account of a monk lighting fires someone pointed out to me in the past.
This type of energy is used in healing mainly. The monk in question is held in very high regard in China and the inheritor of his lineage has healed people including the queen of malaysia and an ex president of indonesia.

thanks
Jeff

RE: Pyrokinesis
Answer
11/10/10 9:01 PM as a reply to Jeff Grove.
Jeff Grove:
Steph S:
Hey Jeff

Sure it's pretty cool to look at someone set stuff on fire with their mind powers, but what have you known this to be used for?

I suppose it might come in handy if one were out in the wilderness and needed to start a fire for warmth or to cook food. To that end, are there many accounts of Thai Forest pyrokinetic monks, since a significant focus of that tradition is to practice in nature by oneself, as is the development of powers.

Steph


Hi Steph,

There is a sutra were there is an account of a monk lighting fires someone pointed out to me in the past.
This type of energy is used in healing mainly. The monk in question is held in very high regard in China and the inheritor of his lineage has healed people including the queen of malaysia and an ex president of indonesia.

thanks
Jeff


So to answer Steph's question - setting something on fire with mind powers isn't really useful. It's just a demonstration of ability which can be put to good use in other ways, like healing.

But also it is really cool =).

RE: Pyrokinesis
Answer
11/10/10 9:10 PM as a reply to Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem.
Beoman Beo Beoman:
Jeff Grove:
Steph S:
Hey Jeff

Sure it's pretty cool to look at someone set stuff on fire with their mind powers, but what have you known this to be used for?

I suppose it might come in handy if one were out in the wilderness and needed to start a fire for warmth or to cook food. To that end, are there many accounts of Thai Forest pyrokinetic monks, since a significant focus of that tradition is to practice in nature by oneself, as is the development of powers.

Steph


Hi Steph,

There is a sutra were there is an account of a monk lighting fires someone pointed out to me in the past.
This type of energy is used in healing mainly. The monk in question is held in very high regard in China and the inheritor of his lineage has healed people including the queen of malaysia and an ex president of indonesia.

thanks
Jeff


So to answer Steph's question - setting something on fire with mind powers isn't really useful. It's just a demonstration of ability which can be put to good use in other ways, like healing.

But also it is really cool =).


Yes the qi when it is applied to you can vary from hot to the exact same feeling of an electric AC current. This is used in a type of acupuncture.

RE: Pyrokinesis
Answer
11/11/10 1:13 AM as a reply to Jeff Grove.
Hi Jeff,

Like I wrote, I wasn't there - thanks for mentioning the origin of that sheet of paper. Maybe you should put a bit of audio commentary in your videos.

Can you provide additional details about the exercise regime and the mapped-out progression of stages?

Cheers,
Florian

RE: Pyrokinesis
Answer
11/11/10 3:54 PM as a reply to Florian.
Florian Weps:
Hi Jeff,

Like I wrote, I wasn't there - thanks for mentioning the origin of that sheet of paper. Maybe you should put a bit of audio commentary in your videos.

Can you provide additional details about the exercise regime and the mapped-out progression of stages?

Cheers,
Florian


Hi Florian,


This gong is based on Yi Jin Jing the tendon transforming scripture that Da Mo left behind.

Your body is the laboratory which is inline with alchemical principals
First off you need to lay the foundation and prepare for the creation of the dantein (dan means medicine, tein field or nature). For the first 100 days you need to practice celibacy to restore your jing using dynamic form (dong gong) coupled with breathing techniques, meditation and standing practices (static form jing gong). Qigong works using a number of principals gathering, blending, transmuting, stretching, opening, closing,swallowing and eating

By around the 100 day mark if you are healthy vibrations will start in your dantein. Once the vibrations start you can start to create and enhance your qi field. This is by breathing through the skin, I have seen a number of western masters teaching this by visualizations but the real method is to create a vacuum and start pulling air through your skin, eventually into the bones and marrow. Now you can pull in as much qi out of the surroundings as you can practice and fill your dantein. To fill your dantein can take a couple of years if you practice diligently. You also need to fill all the main and collateral qi channels (jing luo qi) and compress the yang qi in your dantein with dynamic forms and specific breathing techniques. By practicing specific dynamic forms you can learn to vibrate the qi and around this stage you can start to get an electric effect that can be projected for healing purposes.

cheers
Jeff

Edit: The above is a very basic breakdown. This practice is essentially a monastic practice as not only are long hours of devoted practice required but also long periods of celibacy to succeed

RE: Pyrokinesis
Answer
11/11/10 1:02 PM as a reply to Jeff Grove.
That's interesting Jeff, but I remember Tarin mentioning that after he became actually free, he found that there was no energy buildup anymore.

Is this experience different for you?

RE: Pyrokinesis
Answer
11/11/10 1:36 PM as a reply to Bruno Loff.
Bruno Loff:
That's interesting Jeff, but I remember Tarin mentioning that after he became actually free, he found that there was no energy buildup anymore.

Is this experience different for you?


Hi Bruno,

I haven't practiced this for about 2 years as I have dedicated my time to enlightenment and AF practice and no there is no sense of personal energy

thanks
Jeff

RE: Pyrokinesis
Answer
11/23/10 3:22 PM as a reply to Jeff Grove.
Hi Jeff,

When you say there is "no sense of personal energy" I'm wondering if you did a Qi Gong exercise now, if any sense of energy movement would occur for you(as you have suggest you may be either actually free or in a extended PCE). Just curious.

thanks

RE: Pyrokinesis
Answer
11/23/10 4:23 PM as a reply to aaron ..
Hi Aaron,

When I mention no sense of personal energy I'm refering to the feeling of being or the energy which drives (which is) the movement of will/intent or reflexive concsiousness

cheers
Jeff

RE: Pyrokinesis
Answer
11/23/10 8:55 PM as a reply to Jeff Grove.
Hi Jeff,

Thanks for the clarification. If you were to practice a qi gong/nei kung exercise, could you still feel and move chi? Curious.

thanks

Aaron

RE: Pyrokinesis
Answer
11/23/10 10:14 PM as a reply to aaron ..
aaron .:
Hi Jeff,

Thanks for the clarification. If you were to practice a qi gong/nei kung exercise, could you still feel and move chi? Curious.

thanks

Aaron



yes there is a physical response (whether you call it chi as is accepted in the theories of qigong and medical acupuncture)

RE: Pyrokinesis
Answer
11/25/10 7:12 AM as a reply to Jeff Grove.
Oh, really?! Fascinating! So when you practice, say, exercises involving the Dan-Tien, you will feel it maybe contract, tense and relax, but without the prickly/wavy/vibratory quality ("personal energy")? How does that work exactly? Could you be a bit more descriptive as to exactly what happens when you do "chi manipulation" of some sort?

Because there is one thing which seems a tad strange for me, with regards to actual freedom --- whatever one does when manipulating "energy," it seems to influence not just thinking and behavior, but the physical body as well, and sometimes in quite extraordinary ways (such as pains disappearing altogether, or changes in digestive function).

I am bound to find out for myself sooner or later, but I think that the relationship between AF and "energy practices" is an interesting issue worthy of investigation.

RE: Pyrokinesis
Answer
11/26/10 12:31 AM as a reply to Bruno Loff.
Bruno Loff:
Oh, really?! Fascinating! So when you practice, say, exercises involving the Dan-Tien, you will feel it maybe contract, tense and relax, but without the prickly/wavy/vibratory quality ("personal energy")? How does that work exactly? Could you be a bit more descriptive as to exactly what happens when you do "chi manipulation" of some sort?

Because there is one thing which seems a tad strange for me, with regards to actual freedom --- whatever one does when manipulating "energy," it seems to influence not just thinking and behavior, but the physical body as well, and sometimes in quite extraordinary ways (such as pains disappearing altogether, or changes in digestive function).

I am bound to find out for myself sooner or later, but I think that the relationship between AF and "energy practices" is an interesting issue worthy of investigation.


Hi Bruno,

I havent practiced neigong for about 2 years but have continued in my practice of zhang zhuang (standing practices) and martial arts. I found Zhang Zhuang practices was benificial in practice of PCE as it enabled similar conditions to found out in nature which were key to inducing PCEs.

You continue to perceive sensations as before except now they are direct unmediated perceptions, consciousness at its most basic. I (This body) sit here immersed in sensations and marvel at sound, sight, taste etc, awareness, immediately sensing or apperception.

There is no sense of personal energy as there is no I through which the energy is perceived, no feeling of being, no I as the thinker or I as the feeler. At the source of the personal energy were the instincts and the unconscious act which flooded the body with chemicals creating visceral response and the change in the feeling of being the focus of which was consciousness. This was the cause of the perceived separateness between "I" and the universe which influenced thinking and behavior

Now there are sensations occurring which cluster in certain places due to these practices.

cheers
Jeff

RE: Pyrokinesis
Answer
11/27/10 6:30 PM as a reply to ManZ A.
Yeah Jeff,
Why did you remove the videos?

RE: Pyrokinesis
Answer
11/27/10 9:17 PM as a reply to Yadid dee.
Hi,

I wanted to share them (and have my teachers permission to) but at the same time I don't believe my teacher would appreciate them over the www.
Is there a way I can put them up with restricted access and so they cant be downloaded?

cheers
Jeff

RE: Pyrokinesis
Answer
11/28/10 5:50 AM as a reply to Jeff Grove.
Well, if you have web hosting, you can put them up as FLV files, and password protect the folder.
Blocking downloads is a tricky thing, since when a user views a video, it is essentially being downloaded to his computer.

Too bad Jeff, I was really looking forward to watch the videos.

RE: Pyrokinesis
Answer
8/3/14 9:08 AM as a reply to Jeff Grove.
was also looking forward to these I hope you repost them, and maybe tell us more about the persons involved like the name of the school and it's history and such.

RE: Pyrokinesis
Answer
11/28/10 10:10 PM as a reply to Yadid dee.
Yadid Bee:
Well, if you have web hosting, you can put them up as FLV files, and password protect the folder.
Blocking downloads is a tricky thing, since when a user views a video, it is essentially being downloaded to his computer.

Too bad Jeff, I was really looking forward to watch the videos.


I saw the vids before they were put up. Brief summary: in one, an old looking dude raises his hand to face a piece of paper. after a few seconds a little flame appears in the center of it. the flame spreads. In the other, a lighter is placed on the floor. Same dude points his hand at it. The lighter jerkily moves away from him, an inch or so at a time. At the end the guy (whose lighter it was?) picks it up and looks at it inquiringly.

RE: Pyrokinesis
Answer
12/1/10 1:36 AM as a reply to Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem.
ya lurking here for a while and manage to see the vids. Seems like jeff's recording is of David Verdesi's teachers? I saw a video of the same old gentlemen a few years back and I am pretty they are the same person.

RE: Pyrokinesis
Answer
2/18/12 3:42 PM as a reply to Chris Adell.
Too bad these videos are taken down. I would've loved to have seen them. I've always been open minded about "real magic"

Jeff, if you want a secure way to share these videos, I know of a way. You make a free account on Sugarsync (use that link so that you get more free space). It basically works the same as Dropbox. You download a small program, designate a folder on your computer, and whatever files you copy into that folder get automatically backed up. It's pretty nice. Files/folders can be easily shared through the web interface through either a public link or individually inputting email addresses. A lot easier than it sounds.Hopefully you have the time to do this as I would really love to see those vids you took