self-immolation - explanation of the ability to stay in control? - Discussion

self-immolation - explanation of the ability to stay in control?

Jan, modified 2 Years ago.

self-immolation - explanation of the ability to stay in control?

Posts: 53 Join Date: 11/6/17 Recent Posts

Hi all

After studying the photos and Western journalist witness reports of the last moments of Thích Quảng Dức and his self-immolation (for a quick overview, see also https://allthatsinteresting.com/thich-quang-duc-burning-monk or just google it), and also lesser know cases...

(to me it is one of the most mind blowing achievements of human brain/mind (just close your eyes for a second and imagine your neck, face and scalp burning, and staying still)

...I have been wondering how can one explain ability to stay in control of one's body when one's is literally burning to death.

- is there a medical/physical explanation of this? can you still control your body when the fat of your brain is boiling, and all your instincts are automatically pushing you to action?

- do you think it would be necessary to achieve high levels of insight to be able to stay in control like this?

- would high levels of concentration attainments be sufficient to do this?

- is this a proof that somehow a human is able to somehow remove his "will" from the body and control one's body from "outside"

- or is it just all fake and staged? :-)

Thank you for your opinions, and please feel free to point me also to other "instances" when those sacrifying themselves were able to stay in control this way, and it's fully documented.

Jan

P.S. My best wishes to those whose sacrify themselves with best intentions, but are not (it seems) prepared for it (my perception of the recent cases of many young tibetan monks of both genders)

Raving Rhubarb, modified 2 Years ago.

RE: self-immolation - explanation of the ability to stay in control?

Posts: 73 Join Date: 7/5/18 Recent Posts

Jan Pavuk:

[...]
- or is it just all fake and staged? :-)

Thank you for your opinions, and please feel free to point me also to other "instances" when those sacrifying themselves were able to stay in control this way, and it's fully documented.

Jan

Well, once we stop romanticizing monks, another explanation becomes available: religious fundamentalism.

P.S. My best wishes to those whose sacrify themselves with best intentions, but are not (it seems) prepared for it (my perception of the recent cases of many young tibetan monks of both genders)

Dude. That's not how it works emoticon

svmonk, modified 2 Years ago.

RE: self-immolation - explanation of the ability to stay in control?

Posts: 396 Join Date: 8/23/14 Recent Posts

Hi Jan,

If Thích Quảng Dức was a jhana master, then he likely died in 4th or higher jhana. At 4th jhana the mind becomes permeated with equanimity and what is happening to the body and the outside world is not percieved until the 4th jhana state ends. The story is that the Buddha died from severe dysentary, and just before he died, he went through the jhanas up to the 4th, then came out long enough to make a last address to his closest monks. And classically, during the Muslim invasion of India in the 12-16th centuries, there are reports of invaders entering monestaries and cutting the heads of monks off as they sat in meditation. There is also a meditative state practiced primarily in the Mahayana tradition called "the fading of cognition and perception" (technically sarvopalambhopaamah in Sanskirt) where outside perceptions and internal cognitive activity fade away until, at a time predetermined by the intention one went into the meditation with, they gradually reappear. We had a discussion about this last summer, link [url=]here.

Hope that helps.

Jan Pavuk, modified 2 Years ago.

RE: self-immolation - explanation of the ability to stay in control?

Posts: 53 Join Date: 11/6/17 Recent Posts

Hi svmonk,

a very informative reply, thank you. Could you please resend that link to the discussion from the last summer? It seems to be missing.

svmonk, modified 2 Years ago.

RE: self-immolation - explanation of the ability to stay in control?

Posts: 396 Join Date: 8/23/14 Recent Posts

Here's the link:

https://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/message/9012363?_19_redirect=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dharmaoverground.org%2Fdiscussion%2F-%2Fmessage_boards%2Fsearch%3F_19_redirect%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.dharmaoverground.org%252Fdiscussion%252F-%252Fmessage_boards%252Frecent-posts%26_19_keywords%3Dfading%2Bsvmonk%26_19_formDate%3D1554170663366%26_19_breadcrumbsCategoryId%3D0%26_19_searchCategoryId%3D0