Noting Question

Ian E, modified 13 Years ago at 11/20/10 10:11 AM
Created 13 Years ago at 11/20/10 10:11 AM

Noting Question

Posts: 31 Join Date: 11/19/10 Recent Posts
Hi, I'm new to this site, and fairly new to Buddhism, I have read parts one and two of Daniels book so far and after reading some of Mahasi Sayadaw's Practical Insight Meditation so I am trying his noting technique. I have been meditating for 15min each session but my plan is to increase the time by one minute each session until I get to around 30min and maybe an hour eventually, I'm doing this becuase I have problems sitting for a long time but I think I'm starting to increase my concentration so I have gotten a little better. Anyway to my question, when doing noting meditation Mahasi says not to note in words, I'm having a hard time doing this can anyone help? Thanks.
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tarin greco, modified 13 Years ago at 11/20/10 12:51 PM
Created 13 Years ago at 11/20/10 12:51 PM

RE: Noting Question

Posts: 658 Join Date: 5/14/09 Recent Posts
welcome to the dho.

mahasi says use no words; his successor u pandita (and so the teachers in the panditarama tradition) says use words but not aloud (think the words to yourself silently). these are the two heavyweights of noting practice giving conflicting advice; what to do?

i would advise going with u pandita's recommendation, and for the reason he gives (paraphrase):

when you are a beginner, you first learn letters before you learn words, and so learn that 'c', 'a', and 't' spell 'cat'. similarly, when you begin noting practice, noting with words will ensure that the fundamentals are well-established from the beginning and that you do not go astray. as time goes on, and it becomes impossible to keep up with words (the sensations which present are too numerous to label in such a way), it may be pointful to drop verbal noting and switch to a wordless noticing of the sensations that occur.

in any case, it is important to understand that you are not meant to get caught up/hung up in the content of exactly what it is you are noting; rather, you are to put your energies toward maintaining the continuity of mindfulness as utterly perfectly as possible, noticing that which occurs without fail. whether or not you are noting with words, spend every single moment during a practice session noting something or another. if something comes to your attention, note it. practise with incredible energy and enthusiasm, putting absolutely every mental resource you have available into your sessions, and results will follow. check back in if you have further questions regarding technique, and feel free to post practice reports if you think doing so may be helpful.

tarin
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Ian E, modified 13 Years ago at 11/20/10 3:59 PM
Created 13 Years ago at 11/20/10 3:59 PM

RE: Noting Question

Posts: 31 Join Date: 11/19/10 Recent Posts
Ok thanks alotemoticon
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carolin varley, modified 12 Years ago at 5/28/11 5:41 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 5/28/11 5:41 PM

RE: Noting Question

Posts: 55 Join Date: 8/26/10 Recent Posts
Hi

I just recently decided to give noting a try. I have read some texts and some threads posted here about noting. It seems that the general advice is to actually think the word silently to yourself to describe the action so that you won't get distracted as easily in the beginning. I have experimented with and without verbalising the word but have found disadvantages with both which I am hoping someone can help me with.
If I don't actually think the words then I get drawn very quickly into unmindfullness.
If I do use words then the words can't keep up with my sensations and experiances and start to lag behind the experiances I am trying to express. I can't come up with words quickly enough and when I am looking for the word it obviosly can't be simultaneous with the action. I think the word at about the same speed I would say it out load.
Will this ability to formulate words more quickly get better with practice or should I settle for a combination of words and no words when noting?

Any geeky buddhist help appreciated emoticon
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tarin greco, modified 12 Years ago at 5/29/11 6:31 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 5/29/11 6:31 AM

RE: Noting Question

Posts: 658 Join Date: 5/14/09 Recent Posts
hi carolin,

welcome to the dho.

as regards noting practice:

if you are unable to maintain mindfulness unless you are noting with words (thinking the words), then you are not ready to drop the words, and so should you continue with them. but if, at some point, you become able to maintain mindfulness without words (which may not be until your experience becomes highly vibratory and focussed continuous mindfulness almost effortless), then you may drop the words and, instead, plunge into your direct sensate experience (those vibrations) as fully as possible. then if, at another point, you find yourself again unable to maintain continuity without thinking words, then resume the (silent) noting.

assume that mindfulness cannot be dispensed with, and that no excess of it will hurt. this is a standard for highly effective practice, and it does not get any simpler than this.

some textual support and explanation for this advice can be found here, in the aggi sutta (sn 46.53):


"At such times, monks, as the mind is sluggish, that is the wrong time to cultivate the enlightenment-factor[1] of tranquillity, the enlightenment-factor of concentration, the enlightenment-factor of equanimity. What is the reason? A sluggish mind is hard to arouse by these factors.

"Suppose a man wants to make a small fire blaze. If he heaps wet grass, wet cow-dung and wet sticks on it, if he exposes it to wind and rain and sprinkles it with dust, can he make that small fire blaze?"

"No indeed, Lord."

"Just so, when the mind is sluggish it is the wrong time to cultivate the enlightenment-factors of tranquillity, concentration and equanimity, because a sluggish mind is hard to arouse through these factors.

"But, monks, when the mind is sluggish, that is the right time to cultivate the enlightenment-factor of investigation-of-states, the enlightenment-factor of energy, the enlightenment-factor of rapture.[2] What is the reason? A sluggish mind is easy to arouse by these factors.

"Suppose a man wants to make a small fire blaze. If he heaps dry grass, dry cow-dung and dry sticks on it, blows on it with his mouth, and does not sprinkle it with dust, can he make that fire blaze?"

"Yes indeed, Lord."

"... a sluggish mind is easy to arouse through these factors.

"Monks, when the mind is agitated,[3] that is the wrong time to cultivate the enlightenment-factors of investigation-of-states, of energy, of rapture. Why? An agitated mind is hard to calm through these factors.

"Suppose a man wants to put a big fire out. If he heaps dry cow-dung and dry sticks on it, blow on it with his mouth, and does not sprinkle it with dust, can he put that fire out?"

"No indeed, Lord."

"... an agitated mind is not easy to calm through these factors.

"When the mind is agitated, that is the right time to cultivate the enlightenment-factors of tranquillity, concentration, equanimity. Why? Because an agitated mind is easy to calm[4] through these factors.

"Suppose a man wants to put out a big fire. If he heaps wet grass, wet cow-dung, wet sticks on it and if he exposes it to wind and rain, if he sprinkles it with dust, can he put that big fire out?"

"Yes indeed, Lord."

"Just so, monks, when the mind is agitated, that is the right time to cultivate the enlightenment-factors of tranquillity, concentration, equanimity. An agitated mind is easy to calm through these factors.

"But as for mindfulness, monks, I declare that it is always useful."

(source)


tarin
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carolin varley, modified 12 Years ago at 8/15/11 10:56 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 8/15/11 10:56 AM

RE: Noting Question

Posts: 55 Join Date: 8/26/10 Recent Posts
Thanks alot Tarin. That was really useful. I wish I had checked that earlier!
So does that mean that if my mind is sluggish (which is pretty much all the time when I try to do noting, esp. in the evenings) that that actually is the best time to do noting practice? Investigations of states was mentioned in the passage. Could you please elaborate on that? Is that just noting or is it referring to something else or other methods? I have to admit that 90% of the time I am doing samatha at the moment just because I have practiced it for a while now and feel more comfortable with it. I def. want to bring more noting into my practice and have started doing it in my daily life (when riding the bus and doing stuff around the house) but I find that when I bring it into my formal meditation I am on the brink of sleep after just 10 minutes, and no amount of noting can save me.
Any advice?
Also from what I understood of the passage it sounds like the opposite would also be true; that when I a have excess energy/ restlessness would be a good time to do samatha practice and just focus on my breath to cultivate tranquility (and hopefully jhana!).
Am I right or completely missing the mark?
Lots of questions but if you or anyone else can be bothered to answer I promise to respond faster this time.

Metta
Carolin
noting
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