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From Zen to Sufism

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From Zen to Sufism
Answer
5/16/19 11:22 AM
I meditated for 9 years. Started in the general area of mindfulness. Then discovered Zen. Beautiful. 
But that wasn't enough. Until I discovered sufism. Now I see that it was what I had been looking for. 

I was looking for a way to surrender myself. All that meditating, yet it was "me" who is "meditating". Who do I surrender myself TO?

In Islam you surrender yourself to Allah. I know Islam is not popular, especially in the west. 

That is because of all the wrong interpretations. I am a scientist. I know how to think rationally. Islam gave me what I was looking for. 

I thought maybe there are others who are searching to no avail. I am not trying to preach, I hate that. Just a hand to those who are curious. PM me or write below. 

Allah'ın selamı üzerinize olsun.


RE: From Zen to Sufism
Answer
5/17/19 3:12 PM as a reply to FM Cetin.
FM Cetin:
I meditated for 9 years. Started in the general area of mindfulness. Then discovered Zen. Beautiful. 
But that wasn't enough. Until I discovered sufism. Now I see that it was what I had been looking for. 

I was looking for a way to surrender myself. All that meditating, yet it was "me" who is "meditating". Who do I surrender myself TO?

In Islam you surrender yourself to Allah. I know Islam is not popular, especially in the west. 

That is because of all the wrong interpretations. I am a scientist. I know how to think rationally. Islam gave me what I was looking for. 

I thought maybe there are others who are searching to no avail. I am not trying to preach, I hate that. Just a hand to those who are curious. PM me or write below. 

Allah'ın selamı üzerinize olsun.


aloha fm,

   I am currently deeply in love with ibn 'arabi, who seems to me at the pinnacle of wisdom; the seal of the prophets. I have been reading william chittick and henry corbin.

   Can you comment on the appended quote? I am more interested in public conversation than private. A lot of interest has been shown here recently in sufi ideas.

   My son married into a family that has been islamic since india was invaded. He has been a muslim for ten years, and went on the haj last year. I'm trying to convince him sufism is more than a shi'ite heresy. And I sent him a copy of the book here quoted. He thinks the hadith are outdated and that only the qu'ran should be considered. He is even questioning the validty of 5x prayers (I told him 5x prayers is the least he should do).

terry


from william chittick, "ibn arabi - heir to the prophets":



COSMIC IMAGINATION


Few notions are more central to Ibn ‘Arabi’s conceptual apparatus than khayal, imagination or image. The Arabic word denotes not only the power that allows us to picture things in the mind, but also mental pictures, mirror reflections, and images on a screen. It refers both to the internal faculty and the external reality.

Imagination had long been discussed by Muslim philosophers to highlight the intermediacy of the subjective realm, which is an image of both the knowing self and the known object. This subjective realm came into being when God blew his spirit into Adam’s clay. It is none other than the soul, which arises at the meeting point of light and darkness, awareness and unawareness.

Philosophers considered imagination one of several internal faculties or senses. Ibn ‘Arabi universalized the concept, showing that it properly designates everything other than God. All things are images of Real Wujud, which is Being, Consciousness, and Mercy, and all things are also images of utter nothingness. All things shimmer between being and nonbeing. Each is an isthmus between other things, spatially and temporally.

The realm of being is nothing but image but in truth it is haqq. 
Whoever understands this fact
has grasped the secrets of the Path.
(FH 159)


[nb: from wikipedia: "Haqq (Arabic: حقّ‎ ḥaqq) is the Arabic word for truth. In Islamic contexts, it is also interpreted as right and reality. Al-Haqq, 'the truth, is one of the names of God in the Qur'an. It is often used to refer to God as the Ultimate Reality in Islam." There is also an implied sense of obligation that knowing the truth requires. The hadith says,“ Your soul has a haqq against you, your Lord has a haqq against you.” Our world is one of truth and obligation entwined; haqq.]


To be an image is to be an isthmus between an object that casts the image and the locus in which the image appears. It is to be located in a never-never land between being and non-existence, light and darkness, consciousness and unawareness. Creatures are like images in a mirror, different from both the mirror itself and the object casting the images.   [!!!!!!!!!!!!!    comment?]

From one point of view, the object that casts the images is Real Wujud, and the mirror is nonexistence. But, as Ibn ‘Arabi often reminds us, “Nonexistence is not there” (F. I V 410.30), so the analogy of the mirror should not be pushed too far. Once we have dispensed with it, we are left with a picture of reality akin to the non-dualisms of India and East Asia. An infinity of images fills the universe, and all are nothing but the effulgence of Conscious Light – dispersed, differentiated, and refracted in a cosmos without beginning and end. An infinity of words has become articulated in the All-merciful Breath, and each is nothing but the divine exhalation itself.

As the very stuff of the soul, imagination marks the point where the active vitality of intelligence encounters the signs and sediments perceived by the senses. Invisible realities come down into imagination embodied as notions and dreams, and the objects of sense perception rise up to imagination and become the landscape of the soul. Awareness and unawareness, depth and surface, meaning and words, spirit and clay, inward and outward, non-manifest and manifest – all coalesce and become one.

As two all-comprehensive images of the Real, cosmos and soul reflect each other. The universe is outward, deployed, dispersed, and objectified; the soul inward, concentrated, focused, and subjectified. The soul is aware and conscious, the world unaware and unknowing – relatively speaking, of course, because there can be no absolutes when the stuff of reality is intermediacy and flux. Through its inwardness the soul finds itself and others, and through its outwardness the world deploys what is potentially knowable to the soul.

Given that God taught Adam all the names, everything deployed and dispersed in the universe is already known to primordial human nature. Regaining Adamic perfection means to remember who we are and to recognize what we know. “All the names” means every possibility of being and becoming present in the Real, every word articulated in the All-merciful Breath. The qualities and characteristics of created things are in fact the names of their Creator. Following the path of realization, the soul comes to experience the designations of the names in its own imaginal realm, where being and awareness are one.
 
                                       

RE: From Zen to Sufism
Answer
5/17/19 4:53 PM as a reply to terry.
terry:
FM Cetin:
I meditated for 9 years. Started in the general area of mindfulness. Then discovered Zen. Beautiful. 
But that wasn't enough. Until I discovered sufism. Now I see that it was what I had been looking for. 

I was looking for a way to surrender myself. All that meditating, yet it was "me" who is "meditating". Who do I surrender myself TO?

In Islam you surrender yourself to Allah. I know Islam is not popular, especially in the west. 

That is because of all the wrong interpretations. I am a scientist. I know how to think rationally. Islam gave me what I was looking for. 

I thought maybe there are others who are searching to no avail. I am not trying to preach, I hate that. Just a hand to those who are curious. PM me or write below. 

Allah'ın selamı üzerinize olsun.


aloha fm,

   I am currently deeply in love with ibn 'arabi, who seems to me at the pinnacle of wisdom; the seal of the prophets. I have been reading william chittick and henry corbin.

   Can you comment on the appended quote? I am more interested in public conversation than private. A lot of interest has been shown here recently in sufi ideas.

   My son married into a family that has been islamic since india was invaded. He has been a muslim for ten years, and went on the haj last year. I'm trying to convince him sufism is more than a shi'ite heresy. And I sent him a copy of the book here quoted. He thinks the hadith are outdated and that only the qu'ran should be considered. He is even questioning the validty of 5x prayers (I told him 5x prayers is the least he should do).

terry


from william chittick, "ibn arabi - heir to the prophets":



COSMIC IMAGINATION

 It is none other than the soul, which arises at the meeting point of light and darkness, awareness and unawareness.

Philosophers considered imagination one of several internal faculties or senses. Ibn ‘Arabi universalized the concept, showing that it properly designates everything other than God. All things are images of Real Wujud, which is Being, Consciousness, and Mercy, and all things are also images of utter nothingness. All things shimmer between being and nonbeing. Each is an isthmus between other things, spatially and temporally.

The realm of being is nothing but image but in truth it is haqq. 
Whoever understands this fact
has grasped the secrets of the Path.
(FH 159)


[nb: from wikipedia: "Haqq (Arabic: حقّ‎ ḥaqq) is the Arabic word for truth. In Islamic contexts, it is also interpreted as right and reality. Al-Haqq, 'the truth, is one of the names of God in the Qur'an. It is often used to refer to God as the Ultimate Reality in Islam." There is also an implied sense of obligation that knowing the truth requires. The hadith says,“ Your soul has a haqq against you, your Lord has a haqq against you.” Our world is one of truth and obligation entwined; haqq.]


To be an image is to be an isthmus between an object that casts the image and the locus in which the image appears. It is to be located in a never-never land between being and non-existence, light and darkness, consciousness and unawareness. Creatures are like images in a mirror, different from both the mirror itself and the object casting the images.   [!!!!!!!!!!!!!    comment?]

From one point of view, the object that casts the images is Real Wujud, and the mirror is nonexistence. But, as Ibn ‘Arabi often reminds us, “Nonexistence is not there” (F. I V 410.30), so the analogy of the mirror should not be pushed too far. Once we have dispensed with it, we are left with a picture of reality akin to the non-dualisms of India and East Asia. An infinity of images fills the universe, and all are nothing but the effulgence of Conscious Light – dispersed, differentiated, and refracted in a cosmos without beginning and end. An infinity of words has become articulated in the All-merciful Breath, and each is nothing but the divine exhalation itself.

As the very stuff of the soul, imagination marks the point where the active vitality of intelligence encounters the signs and sediments perceived by the senses. Invisible realities come down into imagination embodied as notions and dreams, and the objects of sense perception rise up to imagination and become the landscape of the soul. Awareness and unawareness, depth and surface, meaning and words, spirit and clay, inward and outward, non-manifest and manifest – all coalesce and become one.

As two all-comprehensive images of the Real, cosmos and soul reflect each other. The universe is outward, deployed, dispersed, and objectified; the soul inward, concentrated, focused, and subjectified. The soul is aware and conscious, the world unaware and unknowing – relatively speaking, of course, because there can be no absolutes when the stuff of reality is intermediacy and flux. Through its inwardness the soul finds itself and others, and through its outwardness the world deploys what is potentially knowable to the soul.

Given that God taught Adam all the names, everything deployed and dispersed in the universe is already known to primordial human nature. Regaining Adamic perfection means to remember who we are and to recognize what we know. “All the names” means every possibility of being and becoming present in the Real, every word articulated in the All-merciful Breath. The qualities and characteristics of created things are in fact the names of their Creator. Following the path of realization, the soul comes to experience the designations of the names in its own imaginal realm, where being and awareness are one.
 
                                       

Hi Terry!

I am happy to read your message. Ibn-i Arabi is one of the most famous sufis in history. I want to comment, but it hurts my brain to think about these things. I focus on experience. 

After all, sufism is not written in books, but inside the heart.

RE: From Zen to Sufism
Answer
5/17/19 5:57 PM as a reply to terry.
Allah’ın selamı tabiidur!

RE: From Zen to Sufism
Answer
5/17/19 6:20 PM as a reply to terry.
Terry, have you seen the film treatment of ibn Arabi in Season 1 of Ertugul; Resurrection?

If not, I recommend it.  It is rather lengthy and somewhat turgid soap opera about the the father of Osman 1 (founder of the Ottoman Empire). 
It's in Turkish with english subtitles, so you might need some stamina to watch.  But I thought it was great fun, and to me it painted a beautifully sympathetic picture of ibn Arabi, and of Islam.

RE: From Zen to Sufism
Answer
5/18/19 2:57 PM as a reply to FM Cetin.
[quote=FM Cetin


]Hi Terry!

I am happy to read your message. Ibn-i Arabi is one of the most famous sufis in history. I want to comment, but it hurts my brain to think about these things. I focus on experience. 

After all, sufism is not written in books, but inside the heart.




How Can I Tell You
(Cat Stevens)

How can I tell you 
That I love you
I love you 
But I can't think of right words to say
I long to tell you 
That I'm always thinking of you
I'm always thinking of you
But my words just blow away
Just blow away
It always ends up to one thing, honey 
And I can't think of right words to say
Wherever I am girl
I'm always walking with you 
I'm always walking with you
But I look and you're not there
Whoever I'm with
I'm always, always talking to you 
I'm always talking to you
And I'm sad that you can't hear
Sad that you can't hear
It always ends up to one thing, honey
When I look and you're not there
I need to know you
Need to feel my arms around you 
Feel my arms around you
Like a sea around a shore
Each night and day I pray
In hope that I might find you
In hope that I might find you
Because hearts can do no more
Can do no more
It always ends up to one thing, honey
Still I kneel upon the floor
How can I tell you 
That I love you
I love you 
But I can't think of right words to say
I long to tell you 
That I'm always thinking of you 
I'm always thinking of you
It always ends up to one thing, honey 
And I can't think of right words to say

Songwriters: Yusuf Islam

RE: From Zen to Sufism
Answer
5/18/19 6:07 PM as a reply to curious.
curious:
Terry, have you seen the film treatment of ibn Arabi in Season 1 of Ertugul; Resurrection?

If not, I recommend it.  It is rather lengthy and somewhat turgid soap opera about the the father of Osman 1 (founder of the Ottoman Empire). 
It's in Turkish with english subtitles, so you might need some stamina to watch.  But I thought it was great fun, and to me it painted a beautifully sympathetic picture of ibn Arabi, and of Islam.
   I have not, but thanks for the tip, malcolm. I have another week planned at the cabin where I have no tv and no unlimited internet. The next week though in hawi I will make a point of checking it out. I'll let you know what I think. I think I will enjoy it.

terry